Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Royal Nurse Commits Suicide After Prank Radio Call Options · View
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:39:05 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Whilst I don't think the target of the prank was the nurse and the DJs had no intent for it to end in the death of an innocent person, I agree with those who say that if you're going to prank someone you need to think about the consequences for everyone involved, and if you don't know what those consequences could be, then you shouldn't prank. There have been thousands of these kind of pranks played I'm sure, and this must be the first recorded death as a direct result of one, but the fact that it may not have happened before is surely not an excuse?

One point I would like to make that has made me angrier than I ever have before reading a thread on this website, is Mazza and Chefkathleen's comments about suicide. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You talk about suicide like it was a concious decision the nurse made and that she was weak for making that choice. Completely and utterly wrong! Suicide is not an option you rationally choose, it is the last and only thing to do once all rational thought has become irrelevant. It's the only option left for someone who is suffering so completely that they do not see a way out of it. It's not like they're sitting there going, "I've had a shit day, I've got huge debts and no partner, my job is crap and I really can't be bothered. Oh! I know it's easier to die than put up with it so I'll kill myself!"

If you've had no experience of either feeling suicidal yourselves, or knowing someone who has, which you clearly haven't given your incredibly un-empathetic and heartless comments on the subject, then please keep your ignorance to yourselves.
Ianthomas
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:04:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 7/9/2011
Posts: 93
Oh gosh, what a stream of pomposity and ignorance, and as a specialist in both I can hardly resist it.

Sorry, but unless i have missed something none of us know why this woman committed suicide. Feeding on her death with pointless speculation seems a bit naff to me, but hey maybe that is the point of forums and why i normally don't go near them. Look on the bright side - there is bound to be someone somewhere currently monitoring web traffic about this incident and who knows you can become famous for your pompous ignorant but oh so well meaning waffling. Fact - none of us are happy that the nurse died but none of us actually know why. Why speculate?

Guilt? Well how about the UK for having a pointless Royalty; the rest of the world for wasting one second thinking about our royalty; Kate Middleton for not eating healthily enough to have some weight on her to have perhaps prevented her from having to go to hospital; Wills Windsor for impregnating her; the obscenity of having private health hospitals, of people charging large sums and profiting from illness; a worldwide media focussed on the vacuous lives of meaningless personalities; of a world of gormless voyeurs who are happier to feed on the meaningless stream of stories of gormless personalities rather than actually live a life and demand changes that would mean better lives for all; oh there you go, has that gone wide enough to blame everyone yet?

I fail to see what this wonderful stream of ignorance and pomposity, of rumour, speculation, and tittle-tattle, a debate worthy of a junior school playground (but obviously a posh one coz of the long words) adds anything to this personal tragedy. It is lovely that you can all take this so seriously and I admire you all for probably believing what you say. I just wish any of us knew what we were really talking about - but we don't. One nurse is dead (hey, you want really ignorant posturing, i will get my senile mother on here who was happily postulating yesterday that she had been poisoned as how do we know she wasn't. Oh and they are bound to cover it up if she was.) Sorry, but I think we should all just shut up and respect her death. Yes her death and this stream raises some significant questions about what a fucked up world we are, but pick a different subject to debate that, and steer away from this sad demise about which we can only speculate and which sorry it is so wrong to speculate about.

Oh, but i still want to have sex with all of you, possibly (laugh for fucks sake!).
Mazza
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:45:14 AM

Rank: Mazztastic

Joined: 9/20/2012
Posts: 3,040
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Jenni wrote:
One point I would like to make that has made me angrier than I ever have before reading a thread on this website, is Mazza and Chefkathleen's comments about suicide. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You talk about suicide like it was a concious decision the nurse made and that she was weak for making that choice. Completely and utterly wrong! Suicide is not an option you rationally choose, it is the last and only thing to do once all rational thought has become irrelevant. It's the only option left for someone who is suffering so completely that they do not see a way out of it. It's not like they're sitting there going, "I've had a shit day, I've got huge debts and no partner, my job is crap and I really can't be bothered. Oh! I know it's easier to die than put up with it so I'll kill myself!"

If you've had no experience of either feeling suicidal yourselves, or knowing someone who has, which you clearly haven't given your incredibly un-empathetic and heartless comments on the subject, then please keep your ignorance to yourselves.


Sadly, your assumption is incorrect.

Unfortunately I do have experience of suicide and what it can do to a family and those left behind. The finding of a loved one who has taken their own life is not something that one can easily forget, or forgive.

But then we do make do make assumptions of other people. It is human nature to see what we want to see.

Like PP said, we can never know what is going on in a person's mind (or words to that effect).

Jenni, with respect, you assume that I am am un-empathic and heartless - which is absolutely not the case, you have no idea why I feel the way I do about this or what has brought me to this point. I can assure you that it is a subject of which I would rather be ignorant.

EDIT:

You know, I've been thinking about this some more... The last three funerals I've attended were all actually suicides. I never put that together until I thought about this thread... One was a friend's step-son, he was only 21 and hung himself - his stepdad found him.

A schoolfriend's brother, who took drugs overdose, leaving a young child behind.

A friend's sister, who also took a drugs overdose and was found a few days later by the sister.

---

I was at work another time when a friend got a call to say that her father had just shot himself. As you can imagine, she was hysterical...

---


I've also had dealings with those who have threatened suicide, certainly it was extremely traumatic to hear, especially when you feel helpless to do anything about it. It's not nice, not at all.

The point is, that I am sadly somewhat familiar with the concept. I do not think it's an easy way out by any means, but I do still maintain that suicide is selfish and tends to be devastating for those left behind.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:37:30 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Putting to one side the prospect of fueling further satirical comments, the thread here has allowed for the taboo subject (sadly it is still taboo) of suicide to be discussed openly.

It has also allowed for many to comment on the actions of those in the entertainment industry and to discuss the boundaries they work within.

Listening to the two DJ's today it was clear that they had no idea that the prank would have the far reaching consequences that followed. They hadn't considered that the prank "could" lead to the death of a nurse in the UK.

To debate whether the DJ's were responsible seems to miss the point, certainly they played a part, they certainly contributed, perhaps they were the final straw, as has been mentioned and observed, we do not really know why.

I genuinely hope that the two DJ's are not vilified forever and a day. They appeared contrite (and yes they may have been coached, although I felt there remorse was genuine) and this is the point, when we mess up we should have an opportunity to make amends, and not to carry this mess around with us forever, there is the real prospect that this event may have an affect on the DJ's lives and their emotional state, some may say they deserve this, however I don't believe anyone deserves emotional distress and we must at least on some level show some compassion, and let them out of the "stocks" some time.

Regarding suicide and how this affects family friends, I can state with 100% accuracy that thinking of any nature that involves logic, rationality, consideration of those that are left behind does not occur. I of course do not know how the nurse felt prior to her suicide, and I don't intend to speculate.

I can say however what one does think of, and that is the solution, the solution that they have made, the solution they planned for.
Only when this fails can we dissect the possible outcomes, and only then can we establish if it was indeed selfish, or the easy option or the simple way out, let me please say this, it isn't and it wasn't.

I see this subject as being an opportunity to raise awareness, to ensure that suicide, depression and mental ill health is discussed with care, compassion and emotional intelligence. So that perhaps we can work towards reducing the stigma associated with mental illness, and employers do not baulk at the thought of employing a person with depression for example, or that they don't let go those they perceive to be weak.

For me the DJ's and their part cloud the issue, and it is important for me to stress that this is simply my opinion based of life experiences, the real issue here is that we still sometimes think of mental illness as weakness and this isn't the case at all.

The comment I make here are based on my experiences and some may say they are revisionist, in some ways that is true, I would like to challenge established doctrines regarding mental well being.

This thread has been an excellent opportunity to challenge some of those old doctrines, we can challenge, and still that doesn't mean all of our beliefs are changed or will be changed, even if we simply shift a little, that would be a huge step forward in my view, hopefully this thread has made a lot of people think, it certainly feels that way to me. And I for one am pleased to see that the the think tank has made people think.

Kudos to all that have contributed no matter what your point of view and let us celebrate the fact that we can openly talk about mental illness and at the same time hopefully learn something about ourselves and others.



lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:59:07 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
I haven't read each and every response in this thread, but I've read enough to see some trends.

First off, Chef's and Mazza's take on suicide aren't really that far off base or uncommon. There are times when people are at the end of their ropes and they see suicide as the only way to end the pain, and even then it's a pretty selfish act. If this is the final straw that pushed this woman over the edge, then there must have been some other things going on. Alot of things. In high school I dated a girl for about a year. Before I met her, when she lived in another city, she met up with the pain of suicide first hand. She came home to find her father's truck in the driveway, home earlier than usual. After going inside to find her beloved father, he was nowhere to be found. She assumed he'd left with a friend or something. She began doing her chores and brought a load of clothes to the outside storeroom/laundry room. Walking in, there she sees her father facing the door. Beer can on the lawnmower, gun on the floor next to him, and him slumped over with a bullet hole in his head. And his blood and brains sprayed on the wall. She was 14 at the time. Of course, in shock she runs out of the laundry room just as her baby sister of 10 years old is getting off the bus. I defer to my exgf on this. She's never forgiven him (to my knowledge, as we are still friendly), she's still angry with him. And years ago she said it was "the biggest pussy move" he could have made. And it was a selfish act, because he KNEW she'd be the one to find him.

The other trend is that the radio DJs are totally or mostly at fault because they humiliated her. If the DJs are to blame, then so are we as society. DJs need ratings, and shock jocks pulling pranks get ratings. If we didn't listen to it, they wouldn't do it. It's like saying that sex on tv is the cause for teen sex. Furthermore, how many of us have seen Sasha Baron Cohen's "comedy". He's made a career of humiliating normal everyday people. Who watched "Borat" and laughed their ass off? Some of the normal everyday innocent bystander people humiliated by Borat lost their jobs or friends. How is what these radio DJs have done any different than what Borat did? Does someone has to kill themselves in order for it to be TOO distasteful? Society has a voracious appetite to see the misery of others.

I'm not letting the DJs totally off the hook, but if they're guilty we're all complicit in that guilt.


edit... on a personal note, I HAVE considered ending it all. as a teenager, tired of dealing with stuff I had the gun in my hand. The stuff was small stuff too. One thing convinced me otherwise. One man, who I respect above all others I'd ever known or have known since said this once. "I lose respect for any person who takes their own life." Whether or not you agree with him is irrelevant. I may not have had the courage to go through with it, but hearing his words ring out inside me head put the brakes on immediately. I'd have rather lived miserably than lose his respect. Agree or disagree with him, he saved my life and i'm grateful for it.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:29:20 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
TraceyAmes wrote:
I am Australian and what happened is a tragedy. Before anybody plays a joke on another person, they should stop and consider the consequences. In this case the consequences resulted in a needless suicide. I feel for the woman who died and for her family. The perpetrators of the hoax are blood-guilty of the woman's death and as such are the main ones to blame.

The hospital also has some guilt in the matter as well. There are protocols to be adhered to and all staff should be aware of what can be done or what is not acceptable. Several DJ's on Australian radio lately have made very nasty, acidic remarks to innocent people including Julia Gillard, the Prime Minister of Australia by Alan Jones. Other abhorrent DJ's include Kyle Sandilands and John Laws. I believe that these radio stations should have very strict laws and boundaries in their talk back shows. If they do not comply, then they should be sacked.

Another outspoken Australian is the former Premier of Victoria, Jeff Kennett. He is currently the CEO od Beyond Blue, an organization for depression leading to suicide and other personal problems. This same guy said it was alright for the two people involved in the Royal nurse hoax to do what they did and that they did nothing wrong. That guy should be sacked immediately and left to rot in a sanatorium.

May God be with the family of the nurse who died.


I agree with you Tracey, and you put it better than I would have.

I first read the story a few days ago when I was feeling ill and let my anger do the talking, on a forum other than this one. It certainly looks to me like the nurse's job was in serious jeopardy for the confidentiality breach, and she may also have feared intense public criticism. Having made some grave mistakes like she did on the job, and for similar reasons (not having to do with a prank caller, but in two cases with a real caller, plus an incident where a file on my watch went missing), I have sometimes felt like losing a job over a well-intentioned but horrible mistake would make me completely unemployable. It hasn't so far, but I can understand the nurse's despair and despondency.

I don't believe the nurse took suicide "as a way out," as some people have suggested. My belief is that her guilt over what she had done was so great that she sought and executed the death penalty on herself. What a horrible punishment, but to a disturbed person it fits the so-called crime.

I have no sympathy for he DJs or their employer. They should not take the punishment alone. I don't know if Australian broadcasters are licensed or what the criteria are for jeopardizing a license, but I would definitely penalize the station in its pocketbook if the law allows, and have the DJs answer to charges (whether criminal or otherwise) of inciting suicide.
stephanie
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:36:30 AM

Rank: Bohemian

Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 4,863
Location: Dublin, Ire., Ireland
LadyX wrote:
The most interesting active threads here tend to reveal a lot more about us, the participants, than about the supposed subject at hand. This one's a prime example.



(That's why I start them, You Little Japanese Bitch!!!!!)

xx SF


(We're friends, I love Her, She gets me......)

"Is there a PLACE in this city to always feel this way?" (The Blue Nile)
elitfromnorth
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:50:38 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,618
Location: Burrowed, Norway
People think that suicide is always a selfish "I am suffering so much I can't go on anymore." are wrong. There are other causes for suicide. There are other reasons as to why I looked over a freezing lake and wondered if I should just walk into it and disappear off the face of the earth. Sure I was miserable, but I was fully capable of dealing with what was happening to ME. What I was struggling with was the idea that was in my head that no matter what I did as I sunk deep down into the hole I was going I was dragging others down with me. I thought about my family and friends and how every little negative thing I did and how every flaw I had brought made their lives more difficult. I looked at society and how my medical bills are so high that despite how much I pay in taxes each year I will still be a red number in the eyes of society. There are others fully capable of doing my job, so without me it's just one more job open for others.

The problem itself isn't always that the person themself is miserable and depressed, it's the fact that they're believing they drag everyone else down with them. Maybe it is an unrational set of ideas, because family and friends are supposed to be there for you when you're at your lowest level and they do that because they love you and want to help you, but the feeling of being a burden to everyone else is in itself the reason they're sitting on the edge. Their failures are the only thing you focus on and they end up in a sort of doomed circle. Continuing their life suddenly becomes to selfish way and killing yourself is, despite all the grief and questions you will cause, the better way for those around you. Believe it or not, but a person considering suicide doesn't always go "me me me" in their head. Or maybe I'm just unique...

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:05:27 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
As a quick side note. We don't know the circumstances in each person on this forum's life. Chef and Maz have gotten some flack. I don't know what has transpired in their lives to lead them to think how they do. But it is very common for people who have dealt with suicide in a very personal way, to have anger about suicide. Just about anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide has felt extreme anger towards the person that took their life and for suicide in general. We all deal with grief differently and no one can tell another person how to grieve.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:12:11 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:
As a quick side note. We don't know the circumstances in each person on this forum's life. Chef and Maz have gotten some flack. I don't know what has transpired in their lives to lead them to think how they do. But it is very common for people who have dealt with suicide in a very personal way, to have anger about suicide. Just about anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide has felt extreme anger towards the person that took their life and for suicide in general. We all deal with grief differently and no one can tell another person how to grieve.


I'd like to think anyone who posts in here sufficiently has their big-boy pants on enough to deal with responses to whatever they post. I might post emotionally on a subject (theoretically, of course...evil4 ), but by doing so, I understand that I might get an equally passionate response. One can't post without dealing with the responses it elicits, regardless of what goes on in their life. All we can go by is what we post and read. If I feel I've been mirepresented, it's incumbent upon me to explain myself. Either way, hopefully participants in the infamous Think Tank don't mistake honest discussion of difficult issues for personal affronts.
stephanie
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:21:13 AM

Rank: Bohemian

Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 4,863
Location: Dublin, Ire., Ireland
Here's what I think....


As a society, we have become addicted to the entertainment provided by media. Magazines, TV, Radio shows..... We have become addicted to the quick media hit. Here today, forgotten tomorrow.

I've worked in both print and radio media all my life.

PRINT media demands a hint of intelligence. Regular FM radio media makes no such demands. (To work successfully in daytime radio you need to have the ability to speak without actually saying anything...)

To be a 'Media Figure', a media personality if you will, engorges an ego that encouraged you, indeed enabled you, to do the job in the first place. But it's very easy to forget that you yourself might not ever be quite as qualified or as competent as those you interview on air...

(To interview a Perrier COMEDIAN doesn't make you a comedian... he or she is an artist, you are simply a conduit...)


Fame, (even stupid daytime radio DJ fame,) corrupts those with aspirations above their abilities.... It's a culture of emptiness and 'cool', where 'fame' is confused with any kind of real talent.... It's a goldfish bowl.... And everyone knows a goldfish, though pretty and cute, has no memory.....


These two idiot unfortunate Deejays, INNOCENT of any deliberate attempt to do harm, have, in an attempt to 'have a bit of a laugh' in the world THEY inhabit, have inadvertently caused the death of a woman who has devoted her life to the care of others.

A little immigrant Indian nurse, a mother, a woman who must have worked so hard to attain the position she was so proud of, was RIDICULED by idiots 'for a laugh.....'

(I'm trying to imagine how Jacintha must have felt when this thing went viral; everything she had ever worked for reduced to a joke, a cheap laugh across the WHOLE WORLD..... A nurse who was just doing her job..... An immigrant Indian woman who OF COURSE put through a phone call 'cos she could never have imagined anyone would lie to her about this.... It was just work for her..... HER work wasn't a joke for her......) She really did die of embarrassment..... The poor unwise thing....

There are no winners here.

The fuckwit deejays are rightfully traumatised and regretful.... (But they ain't dead......) But being stupid doesn't deserve vilification... Media is like politics... We get what we accept. They truly didn't mean any harm... (They just didn't think....)

A woman, a mother, a servant of other people died because we as a society like a cheap laugh...

(How the fuck did we allow this? We only accept what they GIVE us. They give us what THEY THINK we want... Pretty idiots who speak inanities... "Hey, YEAH," idiot fuckwits...)

I didn't want a dead nurse... (Neither did they...)

(There is another issue here... No fan of The Royal Family, I really feel for a first-time mother who's proud delight must SURELY be tainted by this incident......)

It's OUR media in every form......


(We need to make it better.....)

xx SF












"Is there a PLACE in this city to always feel this way?" (The Blue Nile)
stephanie
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:45:17 AM

Rank: Bohemian

Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 4,863
Location: Dublin, Ire., Ireland


(Where IS Bill Hicks when we need him?????)

xx SF

"Is there a PLACE in this city to always feel this way?" (The Blue Nile)
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:10:00 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
How are people still posting that suicide is 'selfish'??!!! What sort of a world do we live in where people are capable of such utter ignorance?!!

And people saying it's 'selfish' despite having experienced a loss of someone they knew or loved (from suicide) does not make this opinion any more valid. All it does is make the ignorance even more ASTOUNDING.

I like to consider myself to be a big girl now, and to think that not much that is said on the internet gets to me these days....but this post has totally demoralised me.
Alphamagus
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:16:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 162
Location: Camberley, United Kingdom
This thread has made me angrier than any other I have read on this site.

A fair few years ago, there was another program on British television called "Noels House Party". This was supposed Saturday night entertainment and was the usual dumbing down that litters the UK's screens on a continual basis. One segment of the show if i recall correctly, involved people humiliating themselves by doing ever more ludicrous and dangerous challenges for a chance to win a holiday. The UK public loved this also....So great to watch people whore themselves for a week in Ibiza.

Then one gentleman took part and was hung . It took this one death to make people realise the ridiculousness and insanity of how far we had come as a supposed race of intelligent creatures before the segment was dropped, never to be heard of again. There was hardly any coverage of the young man, just another life snuffed out for entertainment purposes of the moronic.

Fast forward to 2012. Some of you have called this a harmless prank that has gone wrong.

This nurse had no history of mental illness before being publicly humiliated by these mindless idiots from Australia, in fact she was referred to as a quiet professional who always smiled and was superb at her job.

She then committed suicide leaving behind a loving husband (Who now has to live with that for the rest of his life) and two now orphan children (Or had some of you forget about those two who will never see their mother smile again?).

Suicide is never rational by its very nature, It is caused by a sick and despairing mind that cannot see any other alternative. (And believe me when i say that I am very knowledgeable on this subject).

I am sickened that some people on this site that I had previously thought of as reasoned and intelligent individuals have shown that they have lost their humanity by sticking up for this lowest form of entertainment. To me, this was a preordained act (There is no way that they did this off the cuff) that resulted in the death of a woman who worked in an underpaid, overworked profession. A woman that had decided to devote her career to caring for other people.


Thank you Stephanie for posting this thread. It has certainly made me realise that some people here are certainly not the people that I thought they were.
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:00:22 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
First off, no one that I read defended the DJ or stuck up for them. Some people are saying she is responsible for her own actions. The prank was bad taste and stupid, and unfunny. But it wasn't so bad as to end her life. Maybe she would have lost her job, go find another one. Or if the DJ/radio station are at fault, sue in civil court and move on. If she had no history of mental illness as you say, and I'll take you at your word, then why did she react so violently.

What would everyone think of her if after she'd been pranked, she'd gone to the radio station and murdered the DJs? Would she get the same sympathy, because they deserved it and her humiliation sent her into a homicidal rage? Or would people be calling her a monster for over reacting. I'd bet money we'd all be saying she should be held accountable and no one would feel like her humiliation was severe enough to end someone's life.

Actually, many years ago on a trash tv show in the states something like that happened. On the Jenny Jones show a man was brought out to discover that another man had a crush on him. The man that was surprised, was humiliated and later killed the the man with the crush. The dead man's family sued the show as they were libel. The man was found guilty of murder and sent to prison. No one was letting him off the hook because his humiliation was too great to overcome.

We can't on one hand say that tv, music, and movies doesn't cause people to do bad things, and then change stories when it suits us. I'm not defending the actions of the DJs, it was a shitty move. But they couldn't have thought this was going to happen.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:09:35 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:

What would everyone think of her if after she'd been pranked, she'd gone to the radio station and murdered the DJs? Would she get the same sympathy, because they deserved it and her humiliation sent her into a homicidal rage? Or would people be calling her a monster for over reacting. I'd bet money we'd all be saying she should be held accountable and no one would feel like her humiliation was severe enough to end someone's life.


Of course we would, but that's not what happened. Why on earth would anyone give equal sympathy to a mass-murderer and a suicidal person who, regardless of the specific reasons, felt the walls closing in on her and saw no path along which to move forward?

And for those that correctly point out the lack of proof that these DJs actually caused her suicide, I give due credit. It's the sidebar opinions about suicide in general that make me shake my head. Like many subjects, I gather that the majority of the disagreement here has to do with tone and attitude towards depression and suicide, not the plight of these DJs and this lady.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:19:18 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
LadyX wrote:
[/b]

Of course we would, but that's not what happened. Why on earth would anyone give equal sympathy to a mass-murderer and a suicidal person who, regardless of the specific reasons, felt the walls closing in on her and saw no path along which to move forward?

And for those that correctly point out the lack of proof that these DJs actually caused her suicide, I give due credit. It's the sidebar opinions about suicide in general that make me shake my head. Like many subjects, I gather that the majority of the disagreement here has to do with tone and attitude towards depression and suicide, not the plight of these DJs and this lady.


Ex-actly.
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:19:35 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
LadyX wrote:
[/b]

Of course we would, but that's not what happened. Why on earth would anyone give equal sympathy to a mass-murderer and a suicidal person who, regardless of the specific reasons, felt the walls closing in on her and saw no path along which to move forward?

And for those that correctly point out the lack of proof that these DJs actually caused her suicide, I give due credit. It's the sidebar opinions about suicide in general that make me shake my head. Like many subjects, I gather that the majority of the disagreement here has to do with tone and attitude towards depression and suicide, not the plight of these DJs and this lady.


But the root cause would be the same. I'm terribly sorry for her husband and kids, they're the real victims in all this. It's their mental health that needs to be monitored at the moment.

I feel for the lady. Mental illness is a problem, but it's not clear she suffered from mental illness. People react to things differently, some people who've dealt with suicide firsthand still carry pain and anger for anything associtated with suicide. I've been there, it ain't pretty. There are some strong opinions on both sides of the issue. Sadly, no one has the market cornered on how to grieve. We all do it differently.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:27:14 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
lafayettemister wrote:


But the root cause would be the same. I'm terribly sorry for her husband and kids, they're the real victims in all this. It's their mental health that needs to be monitored at the moment.

I feel for the lady. Mental illness is a problem, but it's not clear she suffered from mental illness. People react to things differently, some people who've dealt with suicide firsthand still carry pain and anger for anything associtated with suicide. I've been there, it ain't pretty. There are some strong opinions on both sides of the issue. Sadly, no one has the market cornered on how to grieve. We all do it differently.


How is it not clear that she suffered from a mental illness?? Suicide goes against every natural survival instinct present in a person. Because their brain/mind, and therefore their mental state, have gone so far down a horrible, horrible road. Mental illness, basically.

If someone takes their life they were mentally ill in some form or another, that much is obvious.

______________________________________________

The hospital made a statement saying that the nurse in question had not been criticised, disciplined or otherwise treated negatively surrounding the call.

As LadyX said, very few people are DIRECTLY stating that this lady took her life SOLELY due to the call the DJs made, it's more people responding to the 'the sidebar opinions about suicide in general'.

Clearly people were not aware that this lady was struggling, but the reality is that people are often well practiced at hiding how they really feel, perhaps her suicide was simply a coincidence and had literally 100% nothing to do with this incident.
principessa
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:34:05 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 4,305
Location: Canada
LadyX wrote:


Of course we would, but that's not what happened. Why on earth would anyone give equal sympathy to a mass-murderer and a suicidal person who, regardless of the specific reasons, felt the walls closing in on her and saw no path along which to move forward?

And for those that correctly point out the lack of proof that these DJs actually caused her suicide, I give due credit. It's the sidebar opinions about suicide in general that make me shake my head. Like many subjects, I gather that the majority of the disagreement here has to do with tone and attitude towards depression and suicide, not the plight of these DJs and this lady.


You are right in that there are two separate issues here: mental illness and the ethics of humiliating people for entertainment. However, the disagreement is about both. It is interesting that those who have little sympathy for people who have mental health issues and commit suicide have displayed a lot of sympathy for the djs who were responsible for this stupid prank. An interesting hierarchy of values, but not mine.

As I have said before, a joke happens when everybody laughs.

Incidentally, I understand that the djs have given an interview on Australian television talking about heartbroken they feel (but not apologizing). It seems that their program has been cancelled, they have been fired, and no more such pranks will be allowed on any station owned by their employer.

LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:36:12 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:

But the root cause would be the same.


So, in other words, you're saying that if we lack sympathy in the case of murder we should lack sympathy in the case of suicide, too? If not, please clarify. Assuming that, theoretically, a dramatic event could cause either suicide or murder, what conclusion are we to draw beyond that? Is it just an erected structure on which to hang the "she's responsible for her own death" opinion? Fair enough, I suppose, though I'm unsure what the point of that really is. I too need more evidence before I'm ready to say that "it's their fault she killed herself", if that's what you mean, but to say that somehow similar emotions should be present regardless of suicide or multiple murders seems way off base to me.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:42:44 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
stephanie wrote:



(That's why I start them, You Little Japanese Bitch!!!!!)

xx SF




Thanks for that, you polka-dancing Dutch imbecile.

What's "thanks for that worthless post" in your language?

evil4
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:51:38 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
@LittleBambi. I was basing that on the comment that Alpha made..... This nurse had no history of mental illness before being publicly humiliated by these mindless idiots from Australia, in fact she was referred to as a quiet professional who always smiled and was superb at her job.

@LX. I'm saying that her actions shouldn't be exhonerated because she took her own life. I can have sympathy for her while at the same time feel like she's responsible for her actions moreso than the DJs are. Whatever happens in a person's life is never reason to take someone's life (except for self or family defense), including one's own life.

Again, I bring up Borat. That movie was critically acclaimed and SBC's comedy was seen as genius. It's become common for comedy to happen at the expense of the non suspecting. This one went way too far. I know it seems like I'm being callous. I'm not, a woman lost her life because of a stupid joke and it's no laughing matter. But I doubt the intent of the DJs was to cause a response such as her's.






When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
stephanie
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:51:38 PM

Rank: Bohemian

Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 4,863
Location: Dublin, Ire., Ireland
Alphamagus wrote:
This thread has made me angrier than any other I have read on this site.

A fair few years ago, there was another program on British television called "Noels House Party". This was supposed Saturday night entertainment and was the usual dumbing down that litters the UK's screens on a continual basis. One segment of the show if i recall correctly, involved people humiliating themselves by doing ever more ludicrous and dangerous challenges for a chance to win a holiday. The UK public loved this also....So great to watch people whore themselves for a week in Ibiza.

Then one gentleman took part and was hung . It took this one death to make people realise the ridiculousness and insanity of how far we had come as a supposed race of intelligent creatures before the segment was dropped, never to be heard of again. There was hardly any coverage of the young man, just another life snuffed out for entertainment purposes of the moronic.

Fast forward to 2012. Some of you have called this a harmless prank that has gone wrong.


I am sickened that some people on this site that I had previously thought of as reasoned and intelligent individuals have shown that they have lost their humanity by sticking up for this lowest form of entertainment.

Thank you Stephanie for posting this thread. It has certainly made me realise that some people here are certainly not the people that I thought they were.




OH NO! NO! NO!!!!!!

PLEASE!!!!!! (Alpha, you're one of OUR finest....)

(We ALL do what we do here and the more intelligent of us indulge in valid discourse.... Let's LISTEN and discuss and if necessary disagree... But PLEASE let's respect different opinions even if we don't agree...) PLEASE let's keep the avenue open for different dialogue.... Lush is a place where everyone's opinion is as valid as the next, YET open to disagreement, discussion and discourse.... We operate in a realm of respect and consideration...)

Let's not JUDGE.....

Let's TALK......

xx SF





"Is there a PLACE in this city to always feel this way?" (The Blue Nile)
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:52:51 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,270
Location: West Coast
principessa wrote:



Incidentally, I understand that the djs have given an interview on Australian television talking about heartbroken they feel (but not apologizing). It seems that their program has been cancelled, they have been fired, and no more such pranks will be allowed on any station owned by their employer.


I watched this. They do sound extremely remorseful (I think anyone would be). They said that they hadn't expected to make it past the switchboard and therefore the joke was intended to be on themselves for not getting through (lame, BS), but that after they'd gotten through to Kate's room, they just recorded the whole thing and passed it along to their "team" for decision on whether or not to air it. They refused to disclose who the 'team' is (likely producers, legal, the station). I don't think it's just the DJ's fault... but whatever faulty process this tape had to go through where people thought "Hey, let's air it across international social media. It's hilarious" is where the worst breakdown of decency occurred. Obviously they knew they were likely affecting the jobs of the two nurses involved for their professional error. I think that should have been plainly obvious and it's reasonable that they should have assumed there would have been repercussions.

Stephanie's post is the heart and soul of this whole thread. This was just some poor nurse covering for someone on Switchboard. She's not an entertainer or politician or someone in the spotlight that knows how to anticipate and deal with public ridicule on this kind of scale. Imagine it was you, and you become the joke of the nation *and* made a serious job error that might affect your current employment and all future professional opportunities. It's harsh!

As for the people dismissing suicide as the easy way out - I can't even address my thoughts on that. Too ridiculous.

Not meant as a threadjack to this topic - but I wonder if the topic was different - let's say military that return from Iraq or Afghanistan and decide to kill themselves (because current stats show that more soldiers have died by suicide than in combat) whether people would have the same, "Meh, they're weak. They took the coward's way out," mentality.


LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:55:57 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:

@LX. I'm saying that her actions shouldn't be exhonerated because she took her own life. I can have sympathy for her while at the same time feel like she's responsible for her actions moreso than the DJs are. Whatever happens in a person's life is never reason to take someone's life (except for self or family defense), including one's own life.



Easy for you to say. Easy for anyone who's not clinging to their own sanity to say. It's incredibly tone-deaf to use the words "selfish" or "easy way out" when it comes to such a tragedy. What's to be "exonerated", and how does that word even apply? Her life is gone now. Why the misplaced baggage-ridden scorn of others gets piled on at this point, if that's what's behind such a blame-heavy attitude toward such despair, is beyond me.
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:04:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
LadyX wrote:


Easy for you to say. Easy for anyone who's not clinging to their own sanity to say. It's incredibly tone-deaf to use the words "selfish" or "easy way out" when it comes to such a tragedy. What's to be "exonerated", and how does that word even apply? Her life is gone now. Why the misplaced baggage-ridden scorn of others gets piled on at this point is beyond me.


I never used either of those terms. I did say that there are many people who share that sentiment. Right or wrong, it is a commonly held thought on the subject. I don't have scorn for others.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:06:04 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:


I never used either of those terms.


Yes you did. =>

lafayettemister wrote:


There are times when people are at the end of their ropes and they see suicide as the only way to end the pain, and even then it's a pretty selfish act.



lafayettemister wrote:

I did say that there are many people who share that sentiment. Right or wrong, it is a commonly held thought on the subject. I don't have scorn for others.


Good. I'm glad you don't. But what does exoneration have to do with it?
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:16:39 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
LadyX wrote:


Good. I'm glad you don't. But what does exoneration have to do with it?


I mean that some points of view hold the radio station and DJs at 100% fault of what happened and give zero accountability to her. I don't know how much at "fault" anyone is, but I'm not sure she should get a free pass on her actions. If she were my mother or wife I'd be pissed at the DJs, but I'd also be angry with her for not coming to me so we could work it out. Yes, I understand a mind that isn't thinking clearly may not see things like a "normal" person would. But I'd still be angry at her too.

It will be interesting to see what her family has to say about this.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:18:55 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
I'm sort of hoping they don't dignify this with any statement whatsoever. The last thing I'd want to do, if my husband took his own life, would be to discuss it with the media. :(
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.