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Royal Nurse Commits Suicide After Prank Radio Call Options · View
DanielleX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:26:55 PM

Rank: Blonde Bombshell

Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 1,821
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
This is an awful, tragic case. I feel so sorry for her children. Who knows what drove her to this?

I do feel sorry for the DJs to some extent because they must feel culpable, even though they couldn't have possibly imagined that this could happen.

As for the prank, it was a puerile joke, that wasn't that funny.

I do think there's more to this story that hasn't come out, but to be honest I wish the media would leave the poor family to grieve.






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VanGogh
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:41:49 PM

Rank: Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado

Joined: 2/10/2012
Posts: 3,012
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Dancing_Doll wrote:

Not meant as a threadjack to this topic - but I wonder if the topic was different - let's say military that return from Iraq or Afghanistan and decide to kill themselves (because current stats show that more soldiers have died by suicide than in combat) whether people would have the same, "Meh, they're weak. They took the coward's way out," mentality.


I thought this too, last night DD. I would bet a $100 that there wouldn't be any "meh"ing from anyone. Everyone would be ... their job/careers, the stress, imagine! the poor guy.

I think and believe that this why some members (such as myself) have been outraged at the "meh" attitude. Where have people's compassion and empathy gone???





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lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:39:04 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
PersonalAssistant wrote:


I thought this too, last night DD. I would bet a $100 that there wouldn't be any "meh"ing from anyone. Everyone would be ... their job/careers, the stress, imagine! the poor guy.

I think and believe that this why some members (such as myself) have been outraged at the "meh" attitude. Where have people's compassion and empathy gone???





Suicide is a very multi layered topic. A veteran of war who has seen innocent men, women, and children killed or maimed is different than someone who has received a prank call. Seeing your friends and fellow soldiers killed or shredded time after time is quite a bit more traumatic.

A person that kills his children in a car accident will feel incredibly guilty and may kill himself.

Murder suicides happen far to often. Usually afterward it's said that the assailant killed himself rather than taking responsibility for his actions. I know I've heard "he took the coward's way out of it" when people talk of these tragedies. Heard it from regular people, police, and media.

A person suffering a loss of quality of life and pain due to fatal illness may choose to end his suffering.

It's possible that "judgements" about suicide aren't all that easy. Each situation is different.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:49:46 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,237
Location: West Coast
lafayettemister wrote:


It's possible that "judgements" about suicide aren't all that easy. Each situation is different.


They all involve mental illness at the root of it. Everyone experiences stress and depression in different ways and at different levels. Same as some people's pain tolerance is higher than others. It's less about the precipitating factor and more about the level of grief that person experiences based on the way they process stress in the brain. If someone is genetically predisposed to mental illness/depression (which studies now show) they are already operating at a much lower threshold of stress tolerance than the average person who might have gone through the same thing (eg. job loss, humiliation, death of loved one, war etc) and been able to handle it fine. That's not their fault. They all deserve compassion.


Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:54:40 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
lafayettemister wrote:


Suicide is a very multi layered topic. A veteran of war who has seen innocent men, women, and children killed or maimed is different than someone who has received a prank call. Seeing your friends and fellow soldiers killed or shredded time after time is quite a bit more traumatic.

A person that kills his children in a car accident will feel incredibly guilty and may kill himself.

Murder suicides happen far to often. Usually afterward it's said that the assailant killed himself rather than taking responsibility for his actions. I know I've heard "he took the coward's way out of it" when people talk of these tragedies. Heard it from regular people, police, and media.

A person suffering a loss of quality of life and pain due to fatal illness may choose to end his suffering.

It's possible that "judgements" about suicide aren't all that easy. Each situation is different.


I'm glad you get it. I know it's hard going against what's in fashion at the moment when you're told what to feel and think by so many people today.

DanielleX wrote:

This is an awful, tragic case. I feel so sorry for her children. Who knows what drove her to this?

I do feel sorry for the DJs to some extent because they must feel culpable, even though they couldn't have possibly imagined that this could happen.

As for the prank, it was a puerile joke, that wasn't that funny.

I do think there's more to this story that hasn't come out, but to be honest I wish the media would leave the poor family to grieve.


I agree with you. There's always more to the story. I'm glad to see you refrained from passing judgement on something or someone you know nothing about as so many are doing, when you/we don't have all the facts.

It's easy to sit behind a computer and pass judgement on someone when you don't know them. You can have opinions and you're welcome to them as we all are supposed to be. Without name calling and persecution when the facts are not known about someone that gives the opinion. Or when someone disagrees with the popular flow of things. Snide remarks aside, this was an interesting topic. Not everyone is going to feel sorry for the woman or the DJs. Guess that's what makes it so interesting. But everyone feels sorry for the people that she left behind.
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:56:19 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
Dancing_Doll wrote:


They all involve mental illness at the root of it. Everyone experiences stress and depression in different ways and at different levels. Same as some people's pain tolerance is higher than others. It's less about the precipitating factor and more about the level of grief that person experiences based on the way they process stress in the brain. If someone is genetically predisposed to mental illness/depression (which studies now show) they are already operating at a much lower threshold of stress tolerance than the average person who might have gone through the same thing (eg. job loss, humiliation, death of loved one, war etc) and been able to handle it fine. That's not their fault. They all deserve compassion.


Eh, maybe most. Not all. And it's possible to have compassion while at the same time holding them to a degree of responsibility. I can't say that I'd have any compassion for someone who murders his children or wife, then takes his own life. I can't really have compassion for the Columbine killers. Maybe I'm jaded and maybe I'm heartless, but those people won't get my compassion. Adolf Hitler commited suicide, but I don't think he deserves compassion.

And sometimes a person kills himself with a clear mind. Not mental health issues. A person who knows he's going to die a slow painful death deciding to take his life isn't necessarily depressed. That's the crux of Dr. Kevorkian's assisted suicides. Critics always said people weren't in their "right mind" to make the decision. Sometimes or even usually in those cases, they were.







When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:00:06 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
chefkathleen wrote:


I agree with you. There's always more to the story. I'm glad to see you refrained from passing judgement on something or someone you know nothing about as so many are doing, when you/we don't have all the facts.

It's easy to sit behind a computer and pass judgement on someone when you don't know them. You can have opinions and you're welcome to them as we all are supposed to be.


Apparently it's also easy to say 'meh' about a person killing themselves.



Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:58:48 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
LittleBambi wrote:


Apparently it's also easy to say 'meh' about a person killing themselves.





Yes it is. Don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:07:14 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
chefkathleen wrote:


Yes it is. Don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes.


No doubt walking a mile in those shoes would make the ignorance even more astounding. To repeat what I said in a previous post.

Again, this thread pains me.

Excellent, always (mostly) nice Lushing.
vtcmr
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:28:42 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 20
This thread has gotten too long, and there's a lot of statements which have been made that I strongly disagree with and will take me a long time to go through and dismantle each one of, so I'm done here.

Before I leave though, I will say that pretty much everyone has been civilised (if a little judgemental of the people who think she took the easy way out, was selfish, defend the pranksters, etc. from the side that has no compassion for the DJs), though I strongly disagree with some opinions. Pretty much everyone… WellMadeMale has singled me out on, I think, three occasions.

WellMadeMale wrote:

You don't get it, I get that much. And after glancing at your Lush profile, I now know the rest of your story.

Oblivion - you wear it well.


WellMadeMale wrote:

Don't quit your day job.

A psychologist/analyst/thoughtful person -- you are not.


WellMadeMale wrote:

I've yet to call you any names. Yet.

You've done a pretty good job of painting yourself into a corner which you cannot dodge out of, you don't require assistance from anyone else.

Please, continue...


Stop trying to play semantics, you know very well what I mean. You're just making posts calling me oblivious, thoughtless, claiming to know me from a look at my very incomplete, anonymous profile, etc.

Like I said, dismantle my arguments, or shut the fuck up. You're not contributing anything to the thread. Everyone else can have a discussion, but not you.

Interestingly, you've made a bunch of other posts that pertain to the discussion, but you seem to have a problem with me. Care to explain what your problem with me is? What have I done to earn your… derision and "intimidation"/"harassment", since what you're doing is much closer to illustrate the meaning of those words than what the DJs did.

I am genuinely curious. I mean, I can even understand the judgement from some of the others who disagree with me as callous or lacking empathy, but you… I really do not understand why you dislike me so much.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:46:54 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,282
Location: Cakeland, United States
vtcmr wrote:
This thread has gotten too long, and there's a lot of statements which have been made that I strongly disagree with and will take me a long time to go through and dismantle each one of, so I'm done here.

Before I leave though, I will say that pretty much everyone has been civilised (if a little judgemental of the people who think she took the easy way out, was selfish, defend the pranksters, etc. from the side that has no compassion for the DJs), though I strongly disagree with some opinions. Pretty much everyone… WellMadeMale has singled me out on, I think, three occasions.



Stop trying to play semantics, you know very well what I mean. You're just making posts calling me oblivious, thoughtless, claiming to know me from a look at my very incomplete, anonymous profile, etc.

Like I said, dismantle my arguments, or shut the fuck up. You're not contributing anything to the thread. Everyone else can have a discussion, but not you.

Interestingly, you've made a bunch of other posts that pertain to the discussion, but you seem to have a problem with me. Care to explain what your problem with me is? What have I done to earn your… derision and "intimidation"/"harassment", since what you're doing is much closer to illustrate the meaning of those words than what the DJs did.

I am genuinely curious. I mean, I can even understand the judgement from some of the others who disagree with me as callous or lacking empathy, but you… I really do not understand why you dislike me so much.


You've been all over the fucking map with your comments. You make zero sense to me and to a great many others here. The fact that you think you're making sense is enough to indicate to me that you are in fact in a state of oblivion.

I also don't like being told to shut the fuck up, but hey...it's the internet... I didn't create the butthurt report form, but I was the 1st person here to roll it out.

A good friend who posted in this thread agrees with me...about you. Your profile says everything we need to know about you.

Meh... I just wasted 250 keystrokes clarifying again.

I've been suicidal in my 20s, I came out of it...fortunately. I have empathy towards anyone who considers that to be their last best option.

We all have to come out of that area on our own. I feel sorry for the nurse and those she left behind. She couldn't come out of it.

You vtcmr - you're not even in it from what I can tell, hence... oblivion. Incidentally, STFU yourself. bootyshake

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:19:14 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
chefkathleen wrote:


Yes it is. Don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes.



Yes, because judging others without knowing what they've been through is wrong, correct? Yet, you call the Nurse 'a weak woman' and saying she 'took the easy way out', when you haven't walked anything in her shoes. Wow.


I seen this on the News last night. Her death is tragic, no matter what way or form it happened, deaths are never something to 'meh' about.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 9:03:26 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
LittleBambi wrote:


No doubt walking a mile in those shoes would make the ignorance even more astounding. To repeat what I said in a previous post.

Again, this thread pains me.

Excellent, always (mostly) nice Lushing.


I think it would behoove you to keep a civil tongue in your head in these threads. Name calling is frowned upon at Lush.

And Nightfox needs to reread my first post as well.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:41:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
chefkathleen I don't believe using the term "ignorance" towards you in this particular topic can be labelled as name calling, it's more a statement of fact.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:52:25 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
A note to remind:

Stating your opinion, frankly and without equivocation = okay.
Call it like you see it = okay.
Call others names or refer to them as ignorant or stupid = not okay.

You don't have to hold back your expression, but don't cross the line.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:18:56 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
LadyX I believe it depends on your definition of ignorance. I don't use it to call someone stupid, just uninformed. I believe anyone who can dismiss suicide in such a way as chefkathleen has, has to be ignorant of the topic, her posts in this thread offend me greatly and I am merely exercising my right to voice that opinion. Just as she has the right to respond.
angieseroticpen
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:15:07 AM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 731
Location: United Kingdom
A very tragic case. Can't help wondering though:

1. Why the Nurse's husband was parading the children for the news media yesterday and why he has that ********* Keith Vass MP involved?
2. Why the two DJ's don't come across as being really contrite and sincere?
3. Who authorised the broadcast and why?
4. Why the news media made such a song and dance about the broadcast in the first place. Haven't they anything more newsworthy to keep broadcasting such as Gay Marriage in Church?

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:20:31 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
I am still very heartened to see that the debate continues, no matter how passionate it became, the really interesting thing I've seen here over the past couple of days is the subtle shifts that those who have posted have displayed.

Yes, it got heated on occasions but I really did see some subtle changes in perceptions, not complete 360 turnarounds but simple subtle shifts in thinking.

I was heartened by this too...
JennieB
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:48:03 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/11/2012
Posts: 123
Location: United Kingdom
chefkathleen wrote:
Sounds like she was a weak woman. Radio stations have been calling people for a long time. She fucked up and couldn't handle it so she took the easy way out. Meh


A weak woman.
How do we know what stresses she had in her life? Both private and professional. I have read that there could potentially have be three seperate investigations from three seperate bodies that she could face. A daunting prospect for anyone.

Radio stations have been calling people for a long time.
Just because something has been going on for a long time does not make it right. If we all justified our actions in this way were would we be now? The current world wide financial crisis has it's roots in practises that have been going on for a long time.

She fucked up and couldn't handle it so she took the easy way out.
I am someone who has tried and failed to take the easy way out. At the time I was in the blackest place imaginable. Looking back it was an irrational thing to attempt but then my mental state now is a lot better then it was then. Although some may disagree. Everyones situation is different so it would be wrong for any of us to label suicide in this way.

Meh
Is life that insignificant?

Thank you chefkathleen for stimulating the discussion in this way. Sometimes it takes comments like yours to bring the best out in people.

I hope I have not been rambling on, I can do that sometimes. Now I will reread the thread and find I have made a fool of myself. Somethings never change.
myself
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:50:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
Hoaxed nurse 'died of shame': As the backlash against phone prank DJs grows, victim's brother says she would have been devastated

Jacintha Saldanha, 46, was found dead on Friday morning in nurses’ accommodation

Her brother Naveen described her as a 'proper and righteous person'

Husband, Ben Barboza, 49, said: ‘I am devastated with the tragic loss of my beloved wife Jacintha in tragic circumstances’

14-year-old daughter Lisha posted 'I love you' on Facebook

Friends said Mrs Saldanha ‘took it very badly' when prank was broadcast

DJs Greig and Christian are expected to be interviewed by Scotland Yard


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245604/Jacintha-Saldanha-Hoaxed-nurse-died-shame-As-backlash-phone-prank-DJs-grows-brother-victim-says-sister-devastated.html#ixzz2Ek8Cs3U4






Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:04:56 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 532,050
Not to be all conspiracy theorist here, but anyone else find it just a little weird that a "devoutly catholic" woman would commit suicide when Catholics believe that suicide is a one way ticket to hell

(I know very little about this woman's personal life, but the majority of the articles make mention of the "devoutly catholic" bit and it just seems a little off)
principessa
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:34:28 AM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 4,281
Location: Canada
This article was under the one linked above. Worth reading.


A victim of today's culture of casual cruelty
By BEL MOONEY
Of course, no harm was intended. Of course, it was just meant to be a harmless prank. But surely there is an important lesson for us all in the very sad affair of the hoax Aussie phone call.
The consequences for everybody involved – from the distressed royal couple, to the shocked and hounded Australian DJs, and most of all to the tragic nurse Jacintha Saldanha and her family – are a reminder that every thoughtless prank has a victim and that nobody can predict how a vulnerable individual will react to what somebody else thinks of as ‘a bit of fun’.
Cheeky, high-spirited Australian DJ Michael Christian thought it a great wheeze to try to talk to the Duchess of Cambridge’s medical team on the telephone, even though he knew she had been taken into hospital suffering from acute morning sickness early in her pregnancy.
The first sign of unthinking cruelty comes right there. His female co-host Mel Greig thought this would be ‘awesome’. That, in turn, shows a very modern take on the word ‘awe’ – which correctly implies respect as well as wonder. Never mind the ethics or legality of the broadcast, there was no respect for anybody’s feelings in this sorry incident; no hint of decency or basic human compassion.

Now that an innocent woman is dead, her family bereaved and bewildered, and the whole world knows the story – the thoughtless joke doesn’t seem funny at all, least of all to the shamed perpetrators.
To me, it never was. From the moment I heard their silly, adolescent giggles and the poor nurses’ polite replies, I saw the prank as another example of the casual, tacky, thoughtless cruelty that has infected popular culture like a plague – on radio, on television and increasingly on Twitter and other social media outlets.

Had Jacintha Saldanha not succumbed to shame and misery (and we have no way of knowing what else was happening in her life) I would always despise the notion that it’s acceptable to call a hospital to invade the privacy of any patient, let alone an expectant young mother in distress. What on Earth have we come to?

Let’s be very clear. The King Edward VII Hospital should have had a protocol so securely in place it would have been impossible for this to happen.

The fact that Jacintha Saldanha was not a native English speaker would have made it less likely that she would pick up the hopeless accents used by Greig and Christian, but in any case there should always be a system of checks and balances, and all the more so when the patient is high-profile.

It is true, also, that the two DJs – who have now gone into hiding after being subjected to a barrage of vilification just as nasty as their original stunt – couldn’t possibly have predicted that their trick would lead to the death of a good woman who felt (no matter how irrationally) responsible for letting her hospital and colleagues down. Call them callow, stupid, irreverent, if you like, but they were not wicked.

Yet while this tragedy was not foreseeable, it was avoidable. For surely an incident like this has been waiting to happen.
The Victorians paid to gawp at people with deformities and disabilities; in our day TV turned the freak show into an even more popular form of entertainment, taking cruelty and mockery right into people’s sitting rooms, whether through hidden camera shows that made the likes of Jeremy Beadle and Dom Joly into household names or in the routine humiliations meted out to (often mentally fragile) contestants on Big Brother or I’m A Celebrity.
That very familiarity means that broadcasters have felt the need to be ever more sensational, to court controversy, to ‘up the ante’ all the time, regardless of the potential consequences.

Those two DJs were willing and able to indulge in the bullying of an unsuspecting victim because exploiting the naivety of innocent victims is now the accepted dialect of light entertainment right across the world.

Before you blame the crass taste of Aussie presenters, remember it was only weeks ago that ITV set up a stunt on I’m a Celebrity in which the actress Charlie Brooks was left weeping after she was denied the right to see her seven-year-old daughter for failing to win a jungle challenge, as the little girl hid behind a set door.

The truth is, we have become so inured to a culture of hard-edged cleverness that it wouldn’t have occurred to Mel Greig or Michael Christian to stop, to think for a moment – and feel shamed – any more than it occurred to ITV that it was wrong to exploit a seven-year-old’s distress to chase ratings.

At least Charlie Brooks must have signed a consent form at some stage. Not so Jacintha Saldanha. Why then did the radio station’s lawyers allow the tapes to be broadcast? For the very same reason that the BBC turned a blind eye to the crude phone call made by Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross to Andrew Sachs, sniggering about his granddaughter’s sex life. Because no single executive had the taste, judgment or maturity to realise that this was totally unacceptable behaviour. Nobody, from the immature broadcasters to the worldly men and women in charge, had the wisdom or decency to say: ‘Hang on, this isn’t funny, it’s wrong.’

Thus casual cruelty is dished up as prime-time entertainment with as much callous indifference as the Romans showed to the Christians and lions fighting to the death in their arenas.

What’s more, it’s getting worse, as new media challenges the old for an audience. Sometimes Twitter seems as brutal as a bearpit, as trolls seek out their prey to persecute. And unlike the mainstream media, the internet has given bullies the cloak of anonymity to hide behind.

No wonder Michael Christian and Mel Greig rushed in to pull a stunt which actually resulted in a vulnerable woman, hitherto proud of her professional standards, being the brunt of hilarity all around the world. In a crowded market, they wanted to stand out; to make a name for themselves. And oh, how they bragged about their little coup over the ensuing days, until horror intruded on their glee.

The public must take its share of blame too. For how many of those people who have tweeted their outrage, accusing the pair of having ‘blood on their hands’ (and worse) had a good laugh when they first heard the ludicrous faux-Brit accents?

It is simply not enough to shrug the shoulders and say: ‘Well, no one could have seen it ending in suicide.’

The Law of Unintended Consequences is known to sociologists and economists and used as a warning that (to quote one definition) ‘an intervention in a complex system tends to create unanticipated and often undesirable outcomes’. Yes, indeed.

In this dreadful story the ‘intervention’ was just another example of the shameless rush to sensationalism that has trivialised modern broadcasting in all its forms – that amoral belief that ‘anything goes’ which disguises the humiliation of others as light-hearted fun.

The ‘complex system’ is the human personality, which is always unpredictable, always vulnerable. And the terrible ‘undesirable outcome’ was the unnecessary death of an innocent woman, who would almost certainly be alive today if those who should have known better had shown restraint.



vtcmr
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:32:43 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 20
WellMadeMale wrote:

You've been all over the fucking map with your comments.

I've made multiple comments regarding the issue. If ANY of them you believe to be incorrect or misinformed, all you have to do is point them out and explain why you think so. Instead, you just decided that calling me oblivious would help me see my supposed oblivion. You decided that calling me thoughtless would help me see my supposed thoughtlessness. You claim that you "know … [my] story." You've decided to ignore my arguments that I walk the reader through, rather than correct me on where you see the issue. All I ask is that you go through my arguments and actually point out the logical flaws you see.

WellMadeMale wrote:

You make zero sense to me and to a great many others here.

I could say the same of you. I won't speak for others, but I can tell you the feeling's mutual. Your quote of the word "SUMMARY", replying to that with "don't quit your day job"? Yeah, that's what doesn't make sense. And I actually get the feeling that chefkathleen, Mazza and a few others agree with at least some of my sentiments, like the fact that the DJs are absolutely NOT at fault for her death (though I believe they are at fault for breaching Kate's privacy).

WellMadeMale wrote:

Your profile says everything we need to know about you.

There you go again! What is on my profile, where is it, what conclusions do you derive from what is on there and why do you arrive at those conclusions?

WellMadeMale wrote:

I have empathy towards anyone who considers that to be their last best option.

I can't claim to empathise with her, but I DO sympathise with her. Just because I believe it's her own fault for killing herself, doesn't mean I don't sympathise. A kid who sneaks out to a party late at night is at fault for their grounding, but I can still sympathise. Someone being at fault for something DOESN'T mean they deserve it.

WellMadeMale wrote:

You vtcmr - you're not even in it from what I can tell, hence... oblivion.

Most of the people here are not likely to have been suicidal, or depressed, yet you decide to single me out.

As for the rest of you, I'm not going to bother anymore. It's clear that many of you have already made up your minds about what the DJ's intentions were, because you know that they were trying to humiliate this poor woman. You know for certain that she was supposed to be the target of this prank from the very beginning. I'd ask for a poll to see who actually listened to the damn thing, but at this point, it's too late and besides, I'm done here!

You ask where our compassion is gone, but you hypocritically have no compassion for the mistake that these DJs made. You've decided in your mind that you know their full intentions and you've already decided to demonise them. Arguing against people like that is pointless, so I'm going to leave this discussion. WMM, if you want to respond to my tangential discussion about your dislike of me, just drop me a PM and maybe I'll respond.
principessa
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:26:44 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 4,281
Location: Canada
vtcmr wrote:

you know that they were trying to humiliate this poor woman. You know for certain that she was supposed to be the target of this prank from the very beginning


Either you have not read opposing views carefully or did not comprehend them. No one has said that this woman was deliberately targeted. The point was to make whoever answered the phone look foolish and see if they could get away with it. The prank was random in choice of victim - whoever spoke to them. So no one thinks they chose this particular nurse, but they do accuse the djs of thoughtlessness carrying this out. Period. Of course they could not predict that it would go this far, as you have argued, but that is precisely the point - that they were willfully blind in carrying out their sophomoric fun.






Johnnie
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:43:07 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 4/10/2010
Posts: 2
I wish these comics and their ilk would pick on politicians and other powerful people...when u take the risk of humiliating a "normal" person in this way, you never know the possible outcome...shame on them
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:53:13 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
Johnnie wrote:
I wish these comics and their ilk would pick on politicians and other powerful people...when u take the risk of humiliating a "normal" person in this way, you never know the possible outcome...shame on them


So, you'd know the possible outcome if they did it to politicians or powerful people? If it's wrong to do to one person, it's wrong to do to all people. The level of wrongness isn't variable dependent on the target. That's why the scales of justice are blind, so that everyone must abide by the same rules and get the same protections. At least that's how it "supposed" to be.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
vtcmr
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:59:06 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 20
principessa wrote:


Either you have not read opposing views carefully or did not comprehend them. No one has said that this woman was deliberately targeted. The point was to make whoever answered the phone look foolish and see if they could get away with it. The prank was random in choice of victim - whoever spoke to them. So no one thinks they chose this particular nurse, but they do accuse the djs of thoughtlessness carrying this out. Period. Of course they could not predict that it would go this far, as you have argued, but that is precisely the point - that they were willfully blind in carrying out their sophomoric fun.



I comprehended them perfectly well, I believe. I think it is you who is not comprehending my previous post. It seems to me that you are saying that the DJs sought out to humiliate someone, random or not.

WellMadeMale wrote:

It was their intent to humiliate, harass, intimidate and bully someone.

elitfromnorth wrote:

Like WMM said, humiliating her was exactly what they were gunning for. Her and the entire hospital. They hoped they would get a juicy result like this and that's exactly what they got. Very little goes better on air than when you humiliate someone.

principessa wrote:

they wanted to humiliate, embarass, and ridicule, showing whoever answered their call to be a gullible fool.

Buz wrote:

Is it really humor to humiliate someone in public?


I'm saying that you guys are making assumptions on what the DJs' intentions are, without knowing a thing about them. You've already made up your mind that these people wanted to humiliate someone. There are other ways in which humour can be derived from the call (however much it breached Kate's privacy, which is the real thing they did wrong).

When I said that you're certain they were trying to humiliate the woman, I meant humiliating whoever picked up. From what I see, you are all assuming that their target was the person who picked up, to embarrass them for poor job performance. What I am saying is that you have already demonised the pair, and I'm pretty sure most, if not all of you didn't listen to the show before. You have already made up your mind that their goal was to humiliate SOMEONE.

Oh, and if you're curious about why I broke my rule, it's because I honestly do not have anything better to do at this moment.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:24:16 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
it occurs to me that these DJ's could've done a very simple thing, and while nobody knows if deaths would've been prevented by doing so, it certainly wouldn't have hurt: reveal their prank at the end of the phone call, before they hang up.

That would have been so much more kind-spirited than what happened, which as far as I can tell, was basically a public victory lap for getting their call through.
Oceanic
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:34:44 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 5/13/2012
Posts: 1
Location: United Kingdom
The Royal's security should have vetted calls.....Princess Di's ex bodyguard Ken Wharf mentioned the switchboard would have been isolated under his watch and any member of the Royal family wanting to call would use a agreed number that the on duty bodyguard would have on themselves at all times.

The blame lies with the DJ's for making the stupid prank call and also the Royal Security.
vtcmr
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:19:07 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 20
LadyX wrote:
it occurs to me that these DJ's could've done a very simple thing, and while nobody knows if deaths would've been prevented by doing so, it certainly wouldn't have hurt: reveal their prank at the end of the phone call, before they hang up.

That would have been so much more kind-spirited than what happened, which as far as I can tell, was basically a public victory lap for getting their call through.


Very much agreed on this point. I do recall that they were shocked to have gotten through, but I don't think that excuse is good enough in this case. At the end of the call, just reveal the prank. Even better, just don't do it, not because some woman might have killed herself over something she had a tiny part in, but because it's a disgusting breach of a sick, pregnant woman's privacy.
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