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Please do not contact us about "low" votes on your stories / poems Options · View
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:32:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Well following the new regime I entered a contest and noticed that this time my story did not immediately get marked down with a '1'.

They did a 2 instead.

I don't think anything can be done about it but it is pretty clearly a competition related thing. Some people really think that the way to win a competition is to mark down all the competing stories.

Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:36:16 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,908
Location: California
ByronLord wrote:
Well following the new regime I entered a contest and noticed that this time my story did not immediately get marked down with a '1'.

They did a 2 instead.

I don't think anything can be done about it but it is pretty clearly a competition related thing. Some people really think that the way to win a competition is to mark down all the competing stories.


To be fair, sometimes stories are just shite.



justaddkatie
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 10:01:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 80
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:


To be fair, sometimes stories are just shite.


I agree BUT how can a story get mostly 5s, a few 4s ... then that random 1 or 2? A shitty story is going to primarily get 2s, 3s, and 4s, yes? One random low score among a majority of high scores is not indicative of a poorly written or received story, in my opinion.
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 6:36:32 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


To be fair, sometimes stories are just shite.


As Katie points out, the type of scores that make me suspicious are 5,5,5,5,5,5,5, 1 or 2,5,5,5,5,5,5

Another interesting little phenomena is that stories that a story often gets a low score right as it is about to get ranked in the 'top stories' for a section.



nicola
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 6:49:19 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,527
Location: The Orgasmatron
ByronLord wrote:
Well following the new regime I entered a contest and noticed that this time my story did not immediately get marked down with a '1'.

They did a 2 instead.

I don't think anything can be done about it but it is pretty clearly a competition related thing. Some people really think that the way to win a competition is to mark down all the competing stories.


You needn't worry about that, I take the top 20-30 stories in each competition, put them all in a spreadsheet without their scores, and read the lot. 10-15 then get sent on to our judges. Your story was there or thereabouts this time. It was well written, but a little on the short side, if I recall correctly.
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:39:38 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,908
Location: California
justaddkatie wrote:


I agree BUT how can a story get mostly 5s, a few 4s ... then that random 1 or 2? A shitty story is going to primarily get 2s, 3s, and 4s, yes? One random low score among a majority of high scores is not indicative of a poorly written or received story, in my opinion.


lordbyron wrote:
As Katie points out, the type of scores that make me suspicious are 5,5,5,5,5,5,5, 1 or 2,5,5,5,5,5,5

Another interesting little phenomena is that stories that a story often gets a low score right as it is about to get ranked in the 'top stories' for a section.


It could be someone who thinks you're a douche. That's one plausible theory.

It could be some loser who wants to bump you from the top stories thingy too because it matters to them to be on those lists I guess.

It could be a mis-click.

It could be some slow adult who thinks 1 is better than 5.

BUT also this...

The more you write, the more people will recognized your style and tend to read all the things you write. So what happens is that you start to get a base of readers who will always give you 5's because they like your writing. Through lush osmosis you may get a couple of new readers reading your stories for the very first time. Since they aren't Lord Byron fans they may think your writing was shite. They probably won't return to read your next story, but the people that like it do. Next time you write some new reader will stumble upon your work and think it was shite again and give you the token 1, 2 or 3.

There were critics that gave the Godfather, Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Shindler's list and any other great movie shitty reviews too. Those movies got pretty much all positive reviews except a couple critics who thought they were the worst movies ever made.

To think you deserve all 5's is ridiculous.

I mean, I deserve all 5's because, c'mon I just do. But not everyone else.



Guest
Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:40:42 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
justaddkatie wrote:


I agree BUT how can a story get mostly 5s, a few 4s ... then that random 1 or 2? A shitty story is going to primarily get 2s, 3s, and 4s, yes? One random low score among a majority of high scores is not indicative of a poorly written or received story, in my opinion.


Could also be different standards. 3 is "average." Depending on what you're used to, average is going to mean something different for different people. If you grow up in the US, your idea of an "average" breast size is different from if you grow up in China. Plus, it seems that several readers refuse to give anything lower than 4, so the score could be self-selected. All those 5s and 4s are legitimate, but a lot of 3s and 2s may be missing because the voter didn't want to hurt feelings, so when someone does vote 2, it looks more out of place than it really should be.

Another possibility is just different metrics. I really only judge food on tastiness and nutrition. How it looks doesn't matter at all to me. My mother cares a lot more about visual presentation of food, and its "authenticity." We're going to rate the same meal differently. Some readers are more bothered by grammatical errors, others just want a stroke-story, and some think there should be a slow build-up. If the majority is one way and a minority is another, the minority may rarely make their opinion publicly known.
justaddkatie
Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 7:35:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 80
Location: United States
LiquidMatthew wrote:


Could also be different standards. 3 is "average." Depending on what you're used to, average is going to mean something different for different people. If you grow up in the US, your idea of an "average" breast size is different from if you grow up in China. Plus, it seems that several readers refuse to give anything lower than 4, so the score could be self-selected. All those 5s and 4s are legitimate, but a lot of 3s and 2s may be missing because the voter didn't want to hurt feelings, so when someone does vote 2, it looks more out of place than it really should be.

Another possibility is just different metrics. I really only judge food on tastiness and nutrition. How it looks doesn't matter at all to me. My mother cares a lot more about visual presentation of food, and its "authenticity." We're going to rate the same meal differently. Some readers are more bothered by grammatical errors, others just want a stroke-story, and some think there should be a slow build-up. If the majority is one way and a minority is another, the minority may rarely make their opinion publicly known.


You've made some excellent, legitimate points here and your post is well written, too. 5+ ;)
SydneySider
Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:49:44 PM

Rank: Chat Moderator

Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 1,700
Location: Sydney, Australia
For me, low scores without valid comments as to why, are just a lame ass paybacks for something the writer did, or didn't do. If you want to snuff out all the bullshit scores and revenge attacks, just force comments with the scores..you will get genuine feedback, most likely from those who actually take the time to read and comment honestly. IF you have 20 straight 5's then a 3 appears from nowhere, you have to really question the motive behind it.

Guest
Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:49:23 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
I am not a writer but am an avid reader. I have read many stories here but have never given less than a 4 because if it is that bad I never finish the story and just go to another story. I can't, in honesty, tell them their spelling or comma is wrong because I would probably make the same mistakes. If you want to read stories that are perfect, buy a book, it has been edited and reedited many times, all the flaws removed. Even professionals make mistakes.
Icarus32
Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:37:01 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/10/2012
Posts: 256
Location: Around, Canada
I read a lot of stories on lush, and typically I only ratings I give out are 4s and 5s, if I liked your story and I'm in a rating mood you get a four, if I thought your story was something special I give a five, I give out very few fives.

I don't give out lower scores because typically I either a) do what kinkygirl said she does and simply stop reading before the end or b) don't want the person to be bummed out. I know that if I put a whole bunch of work into a story and got a bad review I would be sad, regardless of what the quality of the story was.
ByronLord
Posted: Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:47:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
nicola wrote:

You needn't worry about that, I take the top 20-30 stories in each competition, put them all in a spreadsheet without their scores, and read the lot. 10-15 then get sent on to our judges.


Well I am not so much complaining about the result as the gracelessness of the folk who think that this is going to be helping them any. Its like cheating to win a hide and seek competition. If they lose then they are an even bigger loser because they couldn't even win by cheating and if they do win it then they know it doesn't count.

Do people really feel that the fame and adulation of the lush reader community is worth selling their soul for?

nicola wrote:
Your story was there or thereabouts this time. It was well written, but a little on the short side, if I recall correctly.


Cool, was it sufficiently obvious that it was what would have happened in the Dr Strangelove bunker after they set of the doomsday device? Or is that reference now obscure in this post cold war age?

justaddkatie
Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:13:34 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 80
Location: United States
SydneySider wrote:
If you want to snuff out all the bullshit scores and revenge attacks, just force comments with the scores..you will get genuine feedback, most likely from those who actually take the time to read and comment honestly.


This theory worked. I changed my setting and guess what? That random 2/3 that has been given on my past stories didn't show up on my most current story because a comment is required. :) Mwahahah! One of the best features of the voting system here at Lush, imo. Thanks for suggesting this!
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:28:35 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
I just discount the odd lows in any story, to include my own, as spite votes. I tend to enjoy the comments made or the PMs sent more than the Votes. Plus I watch the views as well. But really, even if they didn't have a comments or vote ability, I would submit the stories anyways because I am not writing them for approval or pats on the back... I am writing them for me and for YOU (the readers who enjoy the stories and love to read them).

Now if a story/submission got ALL low votes, I would then question things a bit and see what might be the problem. Until then, I personally will not force people to either comment or vote. Just enjoy the stories! :)
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:09:50 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
If you make it mandatory to leave a comment if you leave a score, can't you tell who gave the low score? I do wonder why some of the great writers here who are being given 1 and 2 on their stories, don't use the option to demand a comment.
Mazza
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:50:47 AM

Rank: Mazztastic

Joined: 9/20/2012
Posts: 3,047
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
trinket wrote:
If you make it mandatory to leave a comment if you leave a score, can't you tell who gave the low score? I do wonder why some of the great writers here who are being given 1 and 2 on their stories, don't use the option to demand a comment.


I've spoken about this at length in other forums. The scoring system always seems to be a hot topic.

Personally, I hate the forced comment feature and I don't think that it gives any more balance to your stories than just allowing anyone to vote anonymously. What you will find (I think) with forced comments, is that people will tend to score higher just because they HAVE to leave a comment too, so you end up with a highly rated story where people (not all people, but generally speaking) will leave much more flattering comments and votes than they would if they weren't forced to vote. Now, while that may be flattering to the author's ego, it's not entirely realistic.

If I read a story and then go to vote on it and the forced comment box comes up, then I am much more likely to simply navigate away without voting at all (unless I really really liked the story, it's absolutely outstanding or I wish to support a friend or newer writer on the site, in which case, I will find something to say along with my vote). I don't like being coerced into doing anything, I like to do it because I want to, not because I'm told to. Big difference.

Still, I can understand why people use the forced comment feature, although I never will. I'll take the votes and comments I get and be happy with that. Like people have said above, a stray low vote on a good story really does stand out and, if the story continues to get good scores, it will lift the average back up. I think that you will always get 'political' voting, whether due to a grudge against the author, to stop a story from getting on the top stories' list or whatever, or maybe they just genuinely don't get it, or think it's crap, it's always going to happen and as part of the great Lush community, I think that we just have to accept that this is the way the system works and get on with it. Whatever way the system is set up is never going to suit everyone, but I think that the way it works just now is pretty much as good as it could be.

Many of the people who frequent Lush don't come here to write (I've no idea what the ratio of members to people who actually submit stories is, I dare say that someone would be able to provide that information). Not everyone wants to vote or leave a comment and that is fine, they don't have to!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:56:45 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
Thanks Mazz, there are some things there I hadn't thought of, because I'm not a writer... thanks for taking the time to explain.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:15:59 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,281
Location: West Coast
Good post, Mazza. That's exactly why I haven't set mine to require comments with votes. Often this results in a lower score, but really - the scores on the site are rather generous as a whole, so it's all relative. For example, even though my last story received an EP, I was never on the Top Author List nor did the story manage to hit the Top Stories of the Month list for more than about a day or two during both months. If one is concerned about being on those lists and getting a perfect score then the 'comment-to-vote' option might be the smartest route to take.

For me - I still think it stifles the amount of total votes and reader-friendly environment. All one has to do is look at the comment to vote ratio to get a feel for this. As another example, one of my stories has 251 votes but only 107 comments. That's a significant number of voters that didn't want to comment, yet to date that story has a score of 5.0 - so not all non-commenters are looking to vote something down. They may just not be the type to want to type out comments with everything they read or they may feel like their vote speaks for itself.

I definitely prefer a more 'open' option setting for readers. I hate to force people into doing anything or making people feel obligated to hand out 5's and glowing comments for fear of hurt feelings or reprisal from jilted authors and their friends. That might mean taking a few lumps with your scores now and then, but overall I think there's more positives than negatives.


CurlyGirly
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:11:41 AM

Rank: CurlyFries

Joined: 10/5/2012
Posts: 1,778
Location: United States
Mazza wrote:


I've spoken about this at length in other forums. The scoring system always seems to be a hot topic.

Personally, I hate the forced comment feature and I don't think that it gives any more balance to your stories than just allowing anyone to vote anonymously. What you will find (I think) with forced comments, is that people will tend to score higher just because they HAVE to leave a comment too, so you end up with a highly rated story where people (not all people, but generally speaking) will leave much more flattering comments and votes than they would if they weren't forced to vote. Now, while that may be flattering to the author's ego, it's not entirely realistic.

If I read a story and then go to vote on it and the forced comment box comes up, then I am much more likely to simply navigate away without voting at all (unless I really really liked the story, it's absolutely outstanding or I wish to support a friend or newer writer on the site, in which case, I will find something to say along with my vote). I don't like being coerced into doing anything, I like to do it because I want to, not because I'm told to. Big difference.

Still, I can understand why people use the forced comment feature, although I never will. I'll take the votes and comments I get and be happy with that. Like people have said above, a stray low vote on a good story really does stand out and, if the story continues to get good scores, it will lift the average back up. I think that you will always get 'political' voting, whether due to a grudge against the author, to stop a story from getting on the top stories' list or whatever, or maybe they just genuinely don't get it, or think it's crap, it's always going to happen and as part of the great Lush community, I think that we just have to accept that this is the way the system works and get on with it. Whatever way the system is set up is never going to suit everyone, but I think that the way it works just now is pretty much as good as it could be.

Many of the people who frequent Lush don't come here to write (I've no idea what the ratio of members to people who actually submit stories is, I dare say that someone would be able to provide that information). Not everyone wants to vote or leave a comment and that is fine, they don't have to!



In agreement with this. Not a big fan of coercion myself, so I just usually move on and don't comment or vote.



It won a potato. Aren't you intrigued?



Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:43:30 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
So I just did a bit of research. As we all know, a "3" is explicitly average when voting on stories. What percentage of stories here would you consider above average?

Take a guess, and then scroll down a bit.

*

*

*

*

*

*

It's 99.695%.

Out of 15,104 stories that came up when I searched by popularity, the top 15,058 are above average. I won't speculate as to why or what that means, but I consider it interesting all the same.
sprite
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:07:22 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,585
Location: My Tower, United States
forced comments. don't use them, never will. they annoy me on several level, mostly covered by DD and Mazza. also, i usually write my comments FIRST and then hit a number. how irritatting is it to be forced to leave ANOTHER comment after taking the time to leave the first one. those stories usually get a comment but no vote.

as for me, yeah, i get it. my last series got universally high marks with the exception of someone bound and to follow me around and vote 1s on every single chapter. frustrating? yes. was it the end of the world? no. i wrote it off as some disgruntled member venting. whatever. still won't do it. i am not about to force anyone to leave comments they don't want to leave, to vote in any manner except how they honestly feel the story deserves. that they take the time to vote at all means a great deal to me, considering i have stories with over 30k views and less than 100 votes.

that all said, i do wish that, if anyone out there reads a story that that truly enjoyed, whomever wrote it, they take the time, a second or two, to leave a vote. it doesn't take any effort and it means a lot to those of us who put so much effort into providing free stories for everyone to enjoy. :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
DirtyMartini
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:40:18 PM

Rank: Purveyor of Poetry & Porn

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 5,790
Location: Right here on Lush Stories..., United States
MatthewVett wrote:


It's 99.695%.

Out of 15,104 stories that came up when I searched by popularity, the top 15,058 are above average. I won't speculate as to why or what that means, but I consider it interesting all the same.


Apparently, this is just an above average site...


You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories

nicola
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:26:57 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,527
Location: The Orgasmatron
DirtyMartini wrote:
Apparently, this is just an above average site...


laughing9

sprite
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:29:41 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,585
Location: My Tower, United States
DirtyMartini wrote:


Apparently, this is just an above average site...


although certain poets do drag the quality down a bit evil4

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Buz
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:16:08 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,819
Location: Atlanta, United States
DirtyMartini wrote:


Apparently, this is just an above average site...


We sizzle! Regaeman Man

Guest
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:06:19 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
I DO think this is an above average site. Having checked out a lot of others, as we probably all have, I think LS is a few cuts above the rest. Moving on.....reading a lot of the comments, I think they have a lot of merit, and the scoring of stories is extremely important to most. From my own viewpoint, I just love writing. The score I get I take on board as a guide. 3 some people thought it just okay, so I need to review and up my game, 4 I'm doing okay, and 5 well, I'm right on the money. For whatever reasons I got those scores, I have no way of knowing, be it good penmanship, or great subject, whatever, and I don't really care. The fact they voted was important, but in the end....I LOVE WRITING, and that's what's important to me, and I try to do the best I can.... the rest, well........ .
Yuzar
Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:31:05 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 104
Location: Some obscure location, United States
Why not set it up to where the author and only the author can see who is placing the scores? Like send a automated message or email saying "XX has rated your story with a X score."

Black & White I : My First Story
Domina I : Domina I
AudriNichols
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:09:00 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 6/4/2014
Posts: 78
Location: United States
I would rather get an honest low vote, than none at all, so long as the criticism in the comment is actually constructive. At least that way, I will know what to work on to improve in the future.

When I rate a story, I do so honestly. I don't feel every story deserves a five just to stroke someone's ego. However, if I give someone a lower score, I try to find at least one good thing to say about their efforts and give constructive feedback.

nicola
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:37:24 AM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,527
Location: The Orgasmatron
AudriNichols wrote:
I would rather get an honest low vote, than none at all, so long as the criticism in the comment is actually constructive. At least that way, I will know what to work to improve in the future.

When I rate a story, I do so honestly. I don't feel every story deserves a five just to stroke someone's ego. However, if I give someone a lower score, I try to find at least one good thing to say about their efforts and give constructive feedback.


You approach scoring and commenting in exactly the spirit it is intended.

Welcome to the site!
AudriNichols
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:31:03 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 6/4/2014
Posts: 78
Location: United States
Additionally, I believe that voting should require a comment (especially the contest entries), and I am glad we have that option. If you took the time to read it, and you liked it enough to give it a high vote, then there is no good reason you can't take an extra minute to say WHY you liked it.

"It was great." is not helpful.
"I really enjoyed the heat between the two main characters, and the action and pace of the story kept my attention all the way to the end." is what the author needs to know. That way they know what they are doing well at, so they can keep doing it.


If you give someone a low vote, you should at least be respectful enough to explain why you gave it, and tell the author what you think they need to do to improve their work. For example:

"Your writing stinks." is not constructive.
"You need to work on your sentence structure, dialogue quotation marks, and writing voice. The paragraphs are choppy and confusing." is far more helpful to the author so they can do better next time.

Either way, leaving a comment ensures that the person who is voting is doing it for a well thought out reason, that has nothing to do with popularity, strife, jealousy or favoritism.

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