Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Should kids in the untied states have to say the pledge of alligence in school Options · View
real69luvr
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:43:42 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2012
Posts: 118
Location: United States
Abso fuckin lutely it should be said. Many thousands have died for that flag and it should be kept in the minds of every citizen. The pledge is just one way it can happen. Too many kids today just grow up. They are not raised as they once were. Parents today are too busy just trying to make ends meet it seems. JMO
Paige42985
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:18:20 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 114
Location: Shelby, United States
When I went to school it was mandatory to say the Pledge and it didn't hurt me at all to say it! I think we should have to say and if you don't believe in God don't say the words under God! It is sad to me that they took the pledge out of the schools because some one got offended by it! Many of our soldiers died for our right to say it and I think it should be brought back to the schools as soon as possible

Believe in yourself and all things are possible
skyeblue
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:41:02 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 2/3/2013
Posts: 11
Location: United States
So many amazing men and women have died to keep that flag high, so why should we install a belief in our children that their sacrifice was not important? They may have the right to not stand or say it, but the men and women that died protecting that right, had the right to live as well. By not teaching them this, we lose pride, the since of right and wrong, and the since of coming together. Even if for a minute, they all stand under the flag equal, saying the same words. So of course they should be made to. Have a good day everyone :)
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:20:04 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
Of course they should have to say it. There's no harm in teaching patriotism
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:21:51 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
No, especially not when it has the words "under God" in it. Get rid of that, and we'll talk.
lisa95
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:28:40 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/20/2012
Posts: 112
Location: florida, United States
hELL YES AND A MORNING PRAYER I DID IT VERY DAY GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.
janet_haney
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:10:03 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 254
Location: United States
Of course they should. Everyone needs to learn RESPECT
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:14:16 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
Yes they should. People complain that it says "under god" but our money has "in god we trust" on it
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:19:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
It reminds me of communism and fascism. It is a despicable practice.

My children are UK citizens. Why should they be pledging allegiance to another country?

My church objected to the pledge before they inserted 'under god'. We don't take oaths and we certainly don't take oaths in the name of God. Its called taking the Lord's name in vain.

I lost friends fighting against the communists. I do not like seeing their methods here.



ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:21:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
MarySweets wrote:
In Australia it used to be commonplace for school kids to pledge to the Queen. Somehow in the later part of the 20th century it stopped happening.


Yeah funny how a CIA instigated coup replacing a democratically elected government in the name of the Queen's representative might have that effect.

shelley2013
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:30:40 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/11/2011
Posts: 153
Location: United States
YES YES, YES, MY FAMILY AND OTHERS FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY AND I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO!!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:31:22 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
Yes
beinggood
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:39:47 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 451
Location: United States
absolutely and like lisa said we did the Lords prayer each morning

doing my best to be good..
Kitanica
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:41:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
No, forcing a pledge on young children who don't know or care about what it means is no different than being forced to seig heil in Nazi Germany when they don't understanding the bigger picture of what the Nazis did. I never said the pledge primarily because I don't understand why any deity would favor a specific nation over any other (under god), and because there were certain things I didn't agree with during the bush administration so I abstained from verbally aligning myself to a war criminals regime. Before bush I was too young to understand it anyway, we only said it because we were told to and didn't have any choice in the matter at a young age.

I've gotten into several arguments with old teachers who force every student to stand and say it, which I find detestable. They shouldn't be teachers if they can't be open to different ideas, you never stop learning. If your closed minded you shouldn't be tasked with shaping the minds of young children, you'll only render them as ignorant as yourself.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:52:51 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
i agree with older students saying it but only once they can understand what it truly means.
Kitanica
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:53:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
janet_haney wrote:
Of course they should. Everyone needs to learn RESPECT


Being forced to say something that may conflict with your personal or religious beliefs has nothing to do with respect. It's oppressive and an affront to freedom.

Would you force children to sign a legally binding document that they didn't agree with or want to sign? Or potentially didn't understand nor couldn't read?
LOVES4PLAY
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 5:30:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2010
Posts: 944
Location: JUST A CLICK AWAY, United States
YES!
Jillin Julie; Yep Love it or leave it!
Robert 1982 surprising , no-one wants to to eliminate our money.. "IN GOD WE TRUST" Except for oil company's.
Real 69 Lover;If the parent had the time to spend with their children, They are unable to discipline them.. simply because some non parent would complain..
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 5:42:36 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
shelley2013 wrote:
YES YES, YES, MY FAMILY AND OTHERS FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY AND I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO!!


Maybe if you had been taught to question authority rather than follow it like sheep your country would not have followed Bush and Cheney into their war justified by lie upon lie ten years ago.

Those soldiers died because there were not enough US citizens patriotic enough to ask hard questions before the fiasco. Instead the cowards shouted down those brave enough to ask and called them traitors.

Between 100,000 and 600,000 people are dead because of that war and Iran now controls Iraq.

Bush was a liar and so was Nixon before him. Last week the LBJ tapes came out confirming that Nixon had illegally sabotaged the Paris peace talks to prevent an end to the war before the 1968 election.

Thatcher was also a liar and a cheat. She made a big public show about being anti-communist but she begged Gorbachev to send in the tanks to crush the demonstrations in East Germany that brought down the Berlin war.

What we need is more people who will stand up to governments that lie and oppress.

Close the gulag in Guantanamo and put the war criminals who authorized torture on trial. Then lets talk about whether that flag is worth anything.

cheeseball
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:02:09 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/19/2013
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago, United States
MarySweets wrote:
In Australia it used to be commonplace for school kids to pledge to the Queen. Somehow in the later part of the 20th century it stopped happening.


According to Byron Lord the CIA replaced the Australian government in a coup. Did I miss this part of your history? How long have you lived under the evil influence of the CIA? Do you have free elections over there? Or is it now under control of the Tri Lateral Commission? Or is it the Free Masons? Before reading that post I was lead to believe you had a pretty cool country down under. Now he has me wondering.....Shhh
ArtMan
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:11:06 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 640
Location: South Florida, United States
Not after the last 3 corrupt presidents Clinton, Bush, & Obama, illegal wars, collusion with the banking corporations, propping up criminal labor unions, and uncontrolled spending against the future of our children and their children. I no longer say the pledge of allegiance myself.

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:04:48 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
bobdallas wrote:
Of course they should have to say it. There's no harm in teaching patriotism


For me, reciting the pledge was just some brain dead thing we did. It made as much sense to me as making everyone...in every business...every morning...saying the pledge of allegiance. If this suppose to strengthen our patriotism, why do stop at high school? At the risk of sounding UN-patriotic, believe me I'm proud to be an American, work American and give my taxes to America, is there not a better way to teach patriotism than forcing someone to recite some words that have actually morphed throughout the years? That is not teaching anything to me. Anybody who thinks that reciting the pledge is going to make them a patriot, well, I have some ocean front property in Wyoming I can sell ya. Like I said, I'd rather learn about it. And they do teach American and Constitutional History in High School and college and we have national holidays to recognize Vets and the fallen which goes a lot further to developing my true patriotism for this country and those who sacrificed so I could live free as we live.
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:35:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
cheeseball wrote:


According to Byron Lord the CIA replaced the Australian government in a coup. Did I miss this part of your history? How long have you lived under the evil influence of the CIA? Do you have free elections over there? Or is it now under control of the Tri Lateral Commission? Or is it the Free Masons? Before reading that post I was lead to believe you had a pretty cool country down under. Now he has me wondering.....Shhh


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis

The role of the CIA is pretty well established. The crisis happened at a time when the CIA was pretty much a rogue agency running its own agenda. Carter and Regan both worked to bring it to heel. Particularly after their incompetence led to the Iranian hostage crisis. A faction in the CIA preferred to have a right wing administration in Australia. People who spend their time bringing down inconvenient governments inevitably end up attacking their own.

What really forced the CIA out of that business was the loss of interception capabilities when the cryptanalysis of the Enigma machine became public and when electronic codes replaced the weaker mechanical systems.

The TriLateral Commission does exist. I know the North American Chairman quite well, I have worked with him. It is not the world government people think and never has been.

Railing against groups like the Tri-Lateral commission and blathering on about black helicopters is how people who are actually in the business of dirty tricks discredit scrutiny.

Delphi
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:50:31 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 6/30/2012
Posts: 1,371
Location: United States
Psssht. No. When I was in school, we didn't have to say it, just stand there and be quiet if we refused to pledge. I think that is fine and stands in line with who we're supposed to be.

Want to teach patriotism? That's another thread.



The Delphi/Dirty_D collaboration - a winner of the Series Award!
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:34:49 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Delphi wrote:
Psssht. No. When I was in school, we didn't have to say it, just stand there and be quiet if we refused to pledge. I think that is fine and stands in line with who we're supposed to be.

Want to teach patriotism? That's another thread.


There is actually this thing called the constitution that means that it is illegal for a school to require it.

My church and Ben Franklin fought for the first amendment to protect the church from corruption by the state.

Kitanica
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:10:41 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
Actually the idea in that was to protect the state and the people from tyranny by religion as well as keeping religion safe.
Guest
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:17:34 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
Holy crap, there are people here who want mandated prayers in school? When did I leave the USA? I guess nobody's read their constitution, what with its anti-establishment clause and all.

So for those who are pro-school prayers, it's cool for a Muslim teacher to require your kids or grandkids to pray to Allah, right? And it's totally cool if an atheist teacher requires them to declare there is no god, right? Because if not, you're massively over-entitled, privileged, narcissistic hypocrites.

(The above message was editing for expletives before being posted, so lucky you guys.)
Guest
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:18:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
shelley2013 wrote:
YES YES, YES, MY FAMILY AND OTHERS FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY AND I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO!!


Am I correct in assuming that you yourself didn't fight for this country, just people you happen to know? I just want to be clear, because you glaringly omitted yourself, and it seems suspicious.
Guest
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:21:51 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,966
robert_1982 wrote:
Yes they should. People complain that it says "under god" but our money has "in god we trust" on it


We complain about that, too. From Wikipedia, ""In God we trust" has appeared on most U.S. coins since 1864 and on paper currency since 1957. Some secularists object to its use."

You'll notice those time periods both being during large, existentialist wars for the US if you know your history, and emphatically not at all near our nation's founding. Additionally, I don't see how other unconstitutional actions are supposed to justify unconstitutional actions... That's like saying, "It's okay that I ran over a nun, I was also drunk driving at the time."
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:36:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 754
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Kitanica wrote:
Actually the idea in that was to protect the state and the people from tyranny by religion as well as keeping religion safe.


That was a concern but not the only one. The non-conformists original complaint was against the established church as being corrupt. The Quakers were concerned that the new state would have an established religion and return to persecuting them.

Persecution of the Quakers is one of the factors that led to the revolution, albeit indirectly. The reason Massachusetts lost its privilege of self government in the first place was the execution of Mary Dyer for her faith. The King ordered the colony to hold no more trials for religious offenses and when the colonists refused put the colony under direct control.

Kitanica
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:17:12 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
ByronLord wrote:


That was a concern but not the only one. The non-conformists original complaint was against the established church as being corrupt. The Quakers were concerned that the new state would have an established religion and return to persecuting them.

Persecution of the Quakers is one of the factors that led to the revolution, albeit indirectly. The reason Massachusetts lost its privilege of self government in the first place was the execution of Mary Dyer for her faith. The King ordered the colony to hold no more trials for religious offenses and when the colonists refused put the colony under direct control.


Well that's why we have seperation, to keep religious institutions from having the authority to go around killing people. That was the right call for the king to make in my opinion, sounds like he was protecting the minority British subjects from the majority of other British subjects. I don't know anything about that specific trial though so I'm only going by what you said. It seems like the king took some of their freedom away after they took away the freedom of that girl by killing her. I must have misread something because it seems like a prime example of protecting innocent people from religion unless you mean it as an example of the church being cleansed from a bad batch of apples.
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.