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RIP Margaret Thatcher Options · View
swollen
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:08:43 PM

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She was a force for Women and for Great Britain. God rest.
Guest
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:49:04 PM

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Condolences to her family. Particularly the Grandchildren.

I'm not sure she did that much for women. I could write a lot about what I think to her policies, but today is not the day for polemical writing.

ByronLord
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:44:43 PM

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Naughty_mike69 wrote:
Condolences to her family. Particularly the Grandchildren.

I'm not sure she did that much for women. I could write a lot about what I think to her policies, but today is not the day for polemical writing.


She wasn't much of a force for Britain either. We lost two thirds of out manufacturing base in 18 months under her government. She was a lion for the interests of the powerful against the powerless. She stood up for apartheid and for murderous dictators like Pinochet. When the Berlin wall was about to fall her first instinct was to beg Gorbachev to send in the tanks and prop the communist system up.

Having watched what was done when St Ronnie Reagan was given a free pass after he died, I don't think we should make the same mistake again.

thirteenthfloor
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:02:04 PM

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When I broke the news to my colleagues at work, they actually sang and danced before putting 'Celebrate Good Times' on the PA. There is even a street party being held across town! This speaks volumes about the way a lot of people feel about her. Personally, I find it difficult to revel in someone's death, regardless of their politics. I can however not feel an ounce of sadness and hope that the negative aspects of her destructive policies are as widely reported as people paying respects.
crazydiamond
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:13:18 PM

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Yes I've seen some odd things on the internet about under 35's celebrating this today? Odd.

I live here now, but was not about during her terms of service so can't possibly comment on her work, but i can say that she was wrong a bit- some ladies are for turning kekekegay

and she must of had some influence! My hubby's auntie still has her hairdo.

All the same RIP MT

Mazza
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:27:45 PM

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In Scotland, the news reports are somewhat different. She was incredibly unpopular north of the border... We even had riots!!

I was a bit too young to understand much about her at the time and I can see why she was so detested, however, I do think that she was a force to be reckoned with and I'd rather have her than the limp dicks who are in power now...

Our country is a fucking shambles...
Ruthie
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:38:55 PM

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"No woman in my time will be prime minister or chancellor or foreign secretary - not the top jobs. Anyway, I wouldn't want to be prime minister; you have to give yourself 100 percent." Margret Thatcher.

If Maggie was wrong about this, what else was she wrong about?

She was certainly wrong about the poll tax. Her policies, like the Reagan/Bush policies in the USA, were destructive to the economy in the long run. The UK has never recovered from her misguided policies. She was on the wrong side of history. Still, may she rest in peace.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:44:09 PM

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I've seen a lot of stuff written about her now that she's dead, much of it not good. I think I would have hated this person if I was around back then, when she was ruling.

Here's a video of her lying about the death of 300 people, and getting justly hammered for it by a regular citizen:

Granted, she became a Prime Minister, so there's that nugget in terms of women's advancement. On the other hand....

"I hate feminism. It is poison." - Margaret Thatcher

Okay, then. Traditional patriarchal glass ceilings everywhere applaud your work, Marge. Here's hoping nobody comes along just like you, ever again.

SexySophie
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:57:04 PM

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I was barely 2 months old when Margaret Thatcher LEFT office and was born into a town whose main industry - heavy engineering and manufacturing - was annihilated during the Thatcher years. Most of the older generation in that town won't be saying "RIP Thatcher" tonight. However one has to look at the bigger picture.

United Kingdom PLC - ever since the Second World War - had declined with successive weak governments to the point where we were in danger of becoming a 'third world country'. On the converse, trade unions had been gaining power - to the point where UK governments had decided the Unions were unbreakable. The whole of UK was riddled with never ending strikes by workers and as such we were branded: the "sick man of Europe" as our debts spiralled and confidence in this former empire builder faded to zero by almost all advanced countries. Thatcher refused to believe this was true.

Single handedly she transformed the economy and world wide respect of UK. Her policy of "some must suffer such that the majority can gain" will be hotly debated in coming weeks and possibly into years. I'm not a politician and she destroyed my town - but it was before I was alive so I can't really hold a grudge against her. I do wonder, however, where my place would have been in this country had she not stood alone but resolute when the chips were down.

Guest
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 4:20:19 PM

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I also was very young then but have done a lot of reading of her time in office. I have to agree completely with Sofia! How old did you say you are, very intelligent viewpoint and well articulated.
May she rest in peace! She was a force in power.
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 4:49:25 PM

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Mazza wrote:
In Scotland, the news reports are somewhat different. She was incredibly unpopular north of the border... We even had riots!!

I was a bit too young to understand much about her at the time and I can see why she was so detested, however, I do think that she was a force to be reckoned with and I'd rather have her than the limp dicks who are in power now...

Our country is a fucking shambles...


Thatcher did more for the cause of Scottish independence than anyone else in the 20th Century.

The 1986 Commonwealth games were held in Edinburgh. Just ahead of the games Thatcher came out in support of apartheid in no uncertain terms prompting a boycott by half the countries due to attend. The speech was totally gratuitous and unnecessary and everyone knew that Thatcher would never have sabotaged a London event the same way.

Tories became an endangered species north of the border as a result and their place was taken by the 'Tartan Tories' aka the SNP.

She did a lot of stuff like that. When Pinochet came over and was arrested for war crimes, Thatcher decided to make a public show of support for the mass murderer who committed treason against a democratically elected government had his opponents dropped out of helicopters as a friend of freedom.

MissDaisy1
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:15:21 PM

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Classic, President Ronald "Dutch" Reagan and Maggie Thatcher. I wonder whether Reagan had purchased some jelly beans to give as a gift.


kylie_kained
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:20:52 PM

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She closed the Mines created a Poll tax nobody wanted creating riots and got us into Europe. Job's were lost money spent out in billions she killed off the great in Great Britain.
















Ianthomas
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:37:09 PM

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There's been some fairly sane and wise words - on Lush and the news generally. My throwaway thoughts would be that it is easy to characterise the advent of Thatcher as a PM (that is Prime Minister not a stray reference to Punish Me) as a victory of the modern conservativism over luddite trade unions bringing the country down but can someone explain how the most successful European economy over my long lifetime was (West) Germany which managed to achieve a growing economy with workers having a say in the way their companies were run. There was another way but it was most certainly not her way. It was her flawed monetarist policies that brought the country's economy to its knees, not the unions, and made her the country's most unpopular PM but then she played her get out of jail card and had the Falkland War. Shame people had to die for her to become popular.

And gosh, how to make some of the country rich? Just give away money via selling off our industries on the cheap by privatising them - and gosh, creating monopolies they made loads of money for a few people - and sold off our country's rented homes so that people could again get a free cash sum off their government. The fact that all our real jobs disappeared and the only growth area in England (and that is a deliberate use of England rather than the UK) has been banking and financial services is the consequence of Thatcher, and Friedman, and Joseph. And we all know what happens when bankers are allowed to run riot as the last six or so years have told us.

Okay, can i say a nice thing about her? She had convictions but should have been convicted for them - cheap jibe!!! The only envy i have ever had for her is that i just so wish the politicians i like had had the bottle (and also the luck that she defininetely had) and the sheer twisted single bloody mindedness to press ahead and just look after their particular part of the population in the same way that Thatcher did.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:37:26 PM

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Sarah Palin says she's just like Margaret Thatcher.

I can't think of a higher honor for the former PM.
Mazza
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:40:58 PM

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ByronLord wrote:


Thatcher did more for the cause of Scottish independence than anyone else in the 20th Century.

The 1986 Commonwealth games were held in Edinburgh. Just ahead of the games Thatcher came out in support of apartheid in no uncertain terms prompting a boycott by half the countries due to attend. The speech was totally gratuitous and unnecessary and everyone knew that Thatcher would never have sabotaged a London event the same way.

Tories became an endangered species north of the border as a result and their place was taken by the 'Tartan Tories' aka the SNP.

She did a lot of stuff like that. When Pinochet came over and was arrested for war crimes, Thatcher decided to make a public show of support for the mass murderer who committed treason against a democratically elected government had his opponents dropped out of helicopters as a friend of freedom.


I meant Britain as a whole, rather than Scotland as an independent country, but yes - I believe that she polarized the Scots...
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, April 08, 2013 6:33:14 PM

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Mazza wrote:
I meant Britain as a whole, rather than Scotland as an independent country, but yes - I believe that she polarized the Scots...


I think she polarized pretty much everything she touched. And she never won more than 44% of the vote. She had a minority mandate.

It was the way that she seemed to take such glee from the consequences of her decisions.

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/archive/displaydocument.asp?docid=112005

Quote:
Now I would like to say something in a very confidential manner, and I would ask you not to record this part of the conversation.
Gorbachev:

As you would like.

[The following part of the conversation is recorded from recollections.]

MT: We are very concerned with the processes that are underway in East Germany. It is on the verge of big changes, which are caused by the situation in the society and to some extent by Erich Honecker's illness. The thousands of people escape from the GDR to the FRG are the primary example. All that is the external side things, and it is important for us, but another issue is even more important.

Britain and Western Europe are not interested in the unification of Germany. The words written in the NATO communiqu��½��½ may sound different, but disregard them. We do not want the unification of Germany. It would lead to changes in the post-war borders, and we cannot allow that because such a development would undermine the stability of the entire international situation, and could lead to threats to our security.

We are not interested in the destabilization of Eastern Europe or the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact either. Of course, the internal changes are ripe in all the countries of Eastern Europe, but in some countries they are more pronounced, in some countries not yet. However, we are in favour of those processes remaining strictly internal, we will not interfere in them and spur the decommunization [sic] of Eastern Europe. I can tell you that this is also the position of the US President. He sent a telegram to me in Tokyo, in which he asked me to tell you that the United States would not undertake anything that could threaten the security interests of the Soviet Union, or that could be perceived by the Soviet society as a threat. I am fulfilling his request.


History has proved that she was completely and utterly wrong. We do not know if she was telling the truth when she claimed to speak for Bush I and the other NATO leaders but it seems unlikely she would have said something that would quickly be found to be untrue.

Fortunately others thought differently.

LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 1:08:25 PM

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Ianthomas wrote:
It was her flawed monetarist policies that brought the country's economy to its knees, not the unions.


Furthermore, I've read in a few different places that the whole 1970s UK identity as the bankrupt 'sick man of Europe', without which she'd have never achieved power, is little more than an expertly crafted political myth. As you stated, Ian, there were obviously other ways to go about economic recovery (including the one that was naturally occuring, based on the end of mid-70s oil price shocks and infusion of North Sea oil funds), they just weren't her way.

Though strongly-worded, I can't find much to refute about the following summary, taken from one of many articles published over the last couple of days:
Quote:

Margaret Thatcher was a zealot, a friend to the worst mass murderers of the 1980s, a force for antisocial cruelty, and her violent means of ending the great British experiment in social democracy made the country a more brutal, less equal country. One of the most telling, and disturbing, of Thatcher’s catchphrases was “there is no alternative,” which was always invoked specifically to close off the possibility of considering the many extant alternatives to her top-down class warfare. At this point, the alternatives that might’ve produced a more equitable future are indeed long since gone, and the future — for England’s indebted, jobless youth and people the world over ground down by her philosophical comrades — looks about as grim as those horrid 1970s must’ve looked to the people who originally voted Thatcher into office. The world is better off without her, and it would’ve been much better off had she never existed in the first place.
mistral
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 3:12:14 PM

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she was the best leader this country has had since ww2, who else would have had the balls to see off the argies!!! R.I.P
nicola
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 3:23:47 PM

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I'd best stay out of this one (but agree wholeheartedly with ByronLord). Her and Norman Tebbit, what a right pair...
Jack_42
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 4:17:03 PM

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I don't agree with any of the celebrations about her death they are - to quote someone ''tasteless posturing'' and also pointless as celebrating the end of something implies something better is going to happen or something bad has ended like WWII but nothing will change because she's died. The sad part of her death to me is she was part of the age I lived in and it is a reminder of my own frailty. However I abhorred all of her polices the harvest of which we are reaping in endless ways today as the latest idea about taxing bedrooms in council houses is showing which has overtones of the poll tax to it.
VickieLynn1
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 5:10:05 PM

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she and RR did great thing for our world. I thank her for what she did for England and in long run helped us here in the US. The vilification of this lady is very sad for she only did what she thought was right for her country and it was the right thing. "limp dicks" in both our country are screwing us over today
R.I.P Lady Thatcher

nothing beats a luscious kiss from well painted lips ;) mmmmmmmmm...........
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 6:17:36 PM

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She was Prime Minister when I was young. But from what I have studied about her...the only positive thing that she did for the common person was acknowledge the deterioration of the ozone layer and what devastating effects that would have on mankind. She talked RR into following her on that and he did in spite of arguments to the contrary from his Republican Party. HOWEVER...her political position was sided with the wealthy and never addressed the common man. ALL of her policies were at the EXPENSE of the middle and lower classes. And she didn't bat an eyelash. She really didn't care. This was a period of time when the left in both the U.K. and the U.S. over extended their liberal agenda. So, she was able to get away with it. I would call her a shill for the rich and an enemy of the left.
keoloke
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 8:12:54 PM

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She was a firm supporter of the apartheid regime.

She refused to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid and described the African National Congress in 1987 as terrorists. "Anyone who thinks it is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land," she said of the ANC at the time.

RIP... As a human being.

Choose n Practice Happiness

Life is simple; we are what we eat and what we read. Talk is superfluous.
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 9:22:04 PM

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Kristind wrote:
She was Prime Minister when I was young. But from what I have studied about her...the only positive thing that she did for the common person was acknowledge the deterioration of the ozone layer and what devastating effects that would have on mankind. She talked RR into following her on that and he did in spite of arguments to the contrary from his Republican Party. HOWEVER...her political position was sided with the wealthy and never addressed the common man. ALL of her policies were at the EXPENSE of the middle and lower classes. And she didn't bat an eyelash. She really didn't care. This was a period of time when the left in both the U.K. and the U.S. over extended their liberal agenda. So, she was able to get away with it. I would call her a shill for the rich and an enemy of the left.


She was also the first world leader to take a 100% action stance against AIDS. The Tory anti-AIDS ads were totally no-nonsense.

But she was totally full of herself and totally convinced of her rightness when she was wrong.

I remember people dancing in the street when the Tories got fed up of her and sacked her. What is rather amusing about the canonization of St Margaret is that she was sacked by her own party that is now lionizing her.

ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 9:25:12 PM

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VickieLynn1 wrote:
she and RR did great thing for our world. I thank her for what she did for England and in long run helped us here in the US. The vilification of this lady is very sad for she only did what she thought was right for her country and it was the right thing. "limp dicks" in both our country are screwing us over today
R.I.P Lady Thatcher


George W. Bush was only doing what he thought was right for the US. But he still crashed the economy, added five trillion to the deficit, ran a network of gulags, sanctioned torture and caused the death of half a million Iraqis.

Good intentions are not enough. As she used to tell me.


TheCrimsonKing
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 9:42:20 PM

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Kristind wrote:
She was Prime Minister when I was young. But from what I have studied about her...the only positive thing that she did for the common person was acknowledge the deterioration of the ozone layer and what devastating effects that would have on mankind. She talked RR into following her on that and he did in spite of arguments to the contrary from his Republican Party. HOWEVER...her political position was sided with the wealthy and never addressed the common man. ALL of her policies were at the EXPENSE of the middle and lower classes. And she didn't bat an eyelash. She really didn't care. This was a period of time when the left in both the U.K. and the U.S. over extended their liberal agenda. So, she was able to get away with it. I would call her a shill for the rich and an enemy of the left.


huh, the environmental stuff is one of the few things I disagree with in her policies. I guess Brits just like being controlled by their government more than Americans do. I'll take privatization over government any day. That's why my ancestors left. You guys had to follow us over, didn't you? No freedom for anybody
TheCrimsonKing
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 9:56:50 PM

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ByronLord wrote:


George W. Bush was only doing what he thought was right for the US. But he still crashed the economy, added five trillion to the deficit, ran a network of gulags, sanctioned torture and caused the death of half a million Iraqis.

Good intentions are not enough. As she used to tell me.


So doubling the debt in half the time is the best way to heal the economy then? And I suppose Saddam Hussein still being in power would be a better thing as well? And the half a million deaths? Wikileaks isn't even that stupid. They list just over 100,000 violent deaths, which accounts for everything from terrorist bombings to our own troops killed to just plain murders.
Kitanica
Posted: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 11:02:24 PM

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As someone whos not Familiar with her or her policies rest in peace. You don't have to like someone or their ideas in order to have the decency to express they're passing as a loss. That said just reading a few posts here she sounds terrible though I don't really think it's the intent of the thread so I won't say anything bad since I don't know enough about her to agree or disagree with anything said here.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:09:42 AM

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SYNONYMOUS: having the same connotations, implications, or reference

Maggie, and Dutch, what a pair. Care to wonder why the poop has trickled down since? Goodnight "fair" maiden. Thanks for everything.

Bitter sweet.
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