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RIP Margaret Thatcher Options · View
overmykneenow
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:31:53 AM

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LadyX wrote:
Granted, she became a Prime Minister, so there's that nugget in terms of women's advancement. On the other hand....

"I hate feminism. It is poison." - Margaret Thatcher

Okay, then. Traditional patriarchal glass ceilings everywhere applaud your work, Marge. Here's hoping nobody comes along just like you, ever again.


In all her time in office she only ever appointed ONE woman to the cabinet (about 24-32 ministers), a classic case of pulling up the ladder after you.


Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead
trinket
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:14:53 AM

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She's hardly in her grave and people are tearing her to shreds.. Whether she did right or wrong, she was still a human being whose family are grieving for her.

angieseroticpen
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:31:27 AM

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overmykneenow wrote:


In all her time in office she only ever appointed ONE woman to the cabinet (about 24-32 ministers), a classic case of pulling up the ladder after you.



Were there any other women in the Conservative Party capable of being a Cabinet Minister and more importantly were there any other women capable of standing up to the very hostile opposition to her policies? I think not.

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
overmykneenow
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:08:51 AM

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angieseroticpen wrote:

Were there any other women in the Conservative Party capable of being a Cabinet Minister and more importantly were there any other women capable of standing up to the very hostile opposition to her policies? I think not.


You think not? You mean that misogynistic gem actually required thought?

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead
overmykneenow
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:22:37 AM

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trinket wrote:
She's hardly in her grave and people are tearing her to shreds.. Whether she did right or wrong, she was still a human being whose family are grieving for her.


The trouble is, in the UK there are a lot of things that have to be talked about right now.

Already in the rag that is the Daily Mail - Britain's favourite right wing newspaper - there has been condemnation over the lack of a one-minute's silence at the Manchester derby on Monday night and there are calls to observe a minutes silence at football games this weekend. She hated football and especially football fans.

If they tried to hold a minute's silence at the Sunderland v Newcastle match this weekend, the boos that will ring out will be deafening. But of course that's what the Daily Mail wants - more division, more reasons to be outraged.

Personally, I did my celebrating when she left politics, I find nothing to celebrate in the passing of an elderly, unwell woman. We cannot ignore though that many people will not see what she did in life as something to be marked or respected.

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead
angieseroticpen
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:36:48 AM

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overmykneenow wrote:
If they tried to hold a minute's silence at the Sunderland v Newcastle match this weekend, the boos that will ring out will be deafening. But of course that's what the Daily Mail wants - more division, more reasons to be outraged..


Do they actually play football that far North? I thought it only reached as far as Old Trafford!laughing6

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
Mazza
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:34:12 PM

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Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
I just saw this piece about Thatcher's demise by Russell Brand for the Huffington Post...

It's worth a read...

Remembering Margaret Thatcher, Britain's Unmaternal National Matriarch

keoloke
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:08:40 PM

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trinket wrote:
She's hardly in her grave and people are tearing her to shreds.. Whether she did right or wrong, she was still a human being whose family are grieving for her.


She "shred" peoples while they were alive.

Peoples on here and most of the world only knew her as a political figure.. they are expressing their opinion based on that. The "shred" is not on a human level.

RIP





Practice Happiness, it is a choice

Life is simple; we are what we eat and what we read. Talk is not much needed.
Mazza
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:25:28 PM

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You know, personal opinion about Thatcher seems to range from her being the best thing since sliced bread to the devil incarnate. I think it's worth pointing out that for all her dictatorial methods, we did, as a nation, elect her to government, and not just once. She was in power from 1979 until 1990 and the tories continued their 'run' for a further seven years after that. That was our choice, as a nation...

Whoever is 'in power' is never ever going to please everyone - it's just not going to happen and I still think that I prefer her to our current 'leaders'...

nicola
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:33:51 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Mazza wrote:
I just saw this piece about Thatcher's demise by Russell Brand for the Huffington Post...

It's worth a read...

Remembering Margaret Thatcher, Britain's Unmaternal National Matriarch



Interesting read Mazza. I like Brand, the "journalist".
SexySophie
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:13:57 PM

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Location: United Kingdom
AlexGG wrote:
I also was very young then but have done a lot of reading of her time in office. I have to agree completely with Sofia! How old did you say you are, very intelligent viewpoint and well articulated.
May she rest in peace! She was a force in power.


Many thanks for your post AlexGG. I'm 23 actually. Mrs Thatcher was elected democratically on three occasions by the people of the United Kingdom - must count for something. Here in UK just now, people - mostly of my age and maybe slightly above - are celebrating with street parties - Mrs. Thatchers death in the most macarbre of ways. Some of their slogans make me feel ashamed to be British.


eiffel2007
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:37:22 PM

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Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 58
Location: United Kingdom
SexySophie wrote:

Single handedly she transformed the economy and world wide respect of UK. Her policy of "some must suffer such that the majority can gain" will be hotly debated in coming weeks and possibly into years.


Her policy was more "your class must suffer so that my class can gain".

There are plenty of towns that over 20 years after she left office have still not recovered from her rule.

And yes she did transform the economy. At the 1979 election when the Tories used the famous 'labour isn't working' campaign showing people queuing for the dole there were 1 million unemployed. She took the total past 3 million. She decimated our manufacturing and heavy industry base. She destroyed the mining industry (with Scargill's help). She deregulated the financial sector and we've all seen how that worked out. We are now a service sector economy.

But she grew the middle class and moved politics in this country to the right. That is her true legacy. The current attacks on the welfare state and the NHS would have been unthinkable before her time in office. That is her legacy and we will suffer for decades to come.


Guest
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:38:37 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,343
crazydiamond wrote:
Yes I've seen some odd things on the internet about under 35's celebrating this today? Odd.

I live here now, but was not about during her terms of service so can't possibly comment on her work, but i can say that she was wrong a bit- some ladies are for turning kekekegay

and she must of had some influence! My hubby's auntie still has her hairdo.

All the same RIP MT


May the lady rest in Peace. However, as a previous poster said, it's not the time for criticism of her, or her policies. That said, Lord Byron is perfectly corrrect. And she did more harm than good to Britain.

Uner 35s have heard it all, and been affected by it all, through their parents and grandparents ... and that just about sums it up for me.
eiffel2007
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:45:03 PM

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Location: United Kingdom
Mazza wrote:

Whoever is 'in power' is never ever going to please everyone - it's just not going to happen and I still think that I prefer her to our current 'leaders'...



Our parties are led by political pygmies whereas she was undoubtedly a giant. She was an idealogue whose idealogy I largely despise, but history will judge her as one of our country's most significant leaders. The big shame for me is that Blair had two massive landslide victories with which to force through a similar scale shift in our country to Thatcher's but he was too concerned with popularity to do so. A wasted opportunity to build on the good things Thatcher did and redress the bad.

Now look what we are left with. Cameron, Clegg and Miliband. :(

Marilyn37
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:49:25 PM

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Look, I know that this is a topical debate.... which I have had over the past couple of days but my feeling is this: She was a strong woman who believed in what she did, didn't sway like the wind, like other politicians, probably didn't take advice either, which was apparently her downfall, however, she had more conviction then 99% of the crowd that are there now and will bend to whatever tune they think will benefit them. In fairness, how many people will talk about the politicians that are in power now after they are dead? They don't have any conviction... Right or wrong! Just my opinion, and I know won't suti a lot of people. The woman is gone now and what will be will be.
Highwayman
Posted: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:55:42 PM

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Excusing bad politicians for bad behavior and bad practice is bad practice. The lady knew what she was getting into, enjoyed the selfish fruits of her labor, and now the rest labor to fix/realign things correctly. Shall we forget poor political effects in consideration of affectation?

Unfortunately, those who are rising up in the UK or the US or where ever you're from may take example of such poor stewardship from past demagogues and hold true to falsehoods and poor judgement. Then they can excuse themselves of future missteps because they too followed their heart and conviction like their predecessors. This unfortunately is the constant political kharma. Do unto others as your predecessor did unto them. As long as you follow your heart, you're square.



‎"The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." --Wilde
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:50:16 AM

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Marilyn37 wrote:
Look, I know that this is a topical debate.... which I have had over the past couple of days but my feeling is this: She was a strong woman who believed in what she did, didn't sway like the wind, like other politicians, probably didn't take advice either, which was apparently her downfall, however, she had more conviction then 99% of the crowd that are there now and will bend to whatever tune they think will benefit them. In fairness, how many people will talk about the politicians that are in power now after they are dead? They don't have any conviction... Right or wrong! Just my opinion, and I know won't suti a lot of people. The woman is gone now and what will be will be.


I was happy to criticize Thatcher while she was alive, just as happy to criticize her now she is dead.

I criticized her to her face while she was still in office. I told her that there was no way that I was going to consider her party to be the defender of freedom and liberty while their student wing was engaged in the Stalinist/McCarthyite practice of drawing up enemies lists and circulating them to employers.

Now to be fair, in that particular instance she did act but only after the same Tory students accused former Prime Minister Macmillan of being a war criminal due to his involvement in the repatriation of Kosack POWs to be murdered by Stalin.


If the right wing was not spending so much time saying how wonderful she was there would be no need to point out what a horrid, nasty piece of work the woman was.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:00:54 AM

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nicola wrote:
I'd best stay out of this one (but agree wholeheartedly with ByronLord). Her and Norman Tebbit, what a right pair...


I'll agree with you Nic (mostly because I can't bring myself to agree with BL about anything).

Her with Ron Raygun spun this world on the track to where we find ourselves today. And miscreants believe those two saved the world.



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
principessa
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:04:51 PM

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Location: Canada
There is some irony in that both RR and MT ended their days with Alzheimer's/dementia. In his case it seems to have started while he was still in office requiring Nancy and his minions to constantly keep cuing him. Or was that just that he was a charming, dumb actor who needed others to write his lines. Being reminded of MT's support for Pinochet and other dictators is important in assessing her over and above the damage she did to the UK. I think that the mess in Europe and the US of the last few years can be traced back to the right wing capitalist policies of RR and MT. Two icons with feet of clay.

Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 3:04:46 PM

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SexySophie wrote:


Mrs Thatcher was elected democratically on three occasions by the people of the United Kingdom - must count for something.


Mrs. Thatcher's party never won a majority. The largest percentage that the Tories got was 44%. She was asked to form a government three times, but to say that she was democratically elected is somewhat of a misstatement.

Her policies, like the policies of most conservative politicans, were to implement laws that lowered working people's rights, and reduce the share of the pie for workers so that owners could have more. Like Bush, she lowered the taxes of the wealthy and let the country's economy slide downward. Her policies caused a huge slump in investments, leading directly to the current economic problems, just as Reagan's did in the USA.

Thatcher and Reagan pretty much destroyed the industrial working class. Their policies led to huge income gaps, closed factories, unemployment, and the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. The right wing needs the propaganda that they were beloved, effective leaders to maintain it's hold on the voters.
Mazza
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 3:27:28 PM

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I just saw this...

nicola
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:57:09 PM

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Frankie Boyle is a naughty boy. He knows no bounds...
Mazza
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 12:11:41 PM

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nicola wrote:
Frankie Boyle is a naughty boy. He knows no bounds...


I follow him on twitter - he is outrageous!! (outrageously funny!)

https://twitter.com/frankieboyle
clum
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:11:00 PM

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trinket wrote:
She's hardly in her grave and people are tearing her to shreds.. Whether she did right or wrong, she was still a human being whose family are grieving for her.


People were tearing her to shreds years before she died. Why should it be any different now she's dead? I don't imagine the things people say about her are any more or less hurtful to her family now than they were when she was alive.

I was born and raised in Scotland, where "Thatcher" is a bad word. But I was born in 1991 and never knew, first-hand, her "reign of terror". I'm told by my family that it was a dreadful time for people across the UK, especially Scotland and The North.

I have neither respect nor disdain for Margaret Thatcher, for she never merited either from me. Her legacy is ingrained deep in the psyche of the Scottish people and it will not soon be forgotten, whether she is alive or dead. What an astonishing life, to have affected so many people so deeply, whether negatively or positively.

The day she died, I prayed for her life, though I never knew her. I sincerely hope she can find happiness in the next life, and bring happiness to others, too.

P.S. I hate Frankie Boyle.

The lion is most lionlike when he roars.
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:37:24 PM

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Thatcher would have loved the fact that people are celebrating her death

So it's a win win

AbigailThornton
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:36:11 PM

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ByronLord wrote:


History has proved that she was completely and utterly wrong. We do not know if she was telling the truth when she claimed to speak for Bush I and the other NATO leaders but it seems unlikely she would have said something that would quickly be found to be untrue.

Fortunately others thought differently.


Do you not remember the Yugoslav Wars? There was a genuine fear that the whole of eastern Europe could descend into civil war as the unfinished business of WW2 fully unwound as the Soviet umbrella withdrew.

Britain uses the 'first-past-the-post' voting system, so "a minority mandate" is quite common given that there are three major political parties.


“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.”


― Mark Twain


Mazza
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:44:20 PM

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Joined: 9/20/2012
Posts: 2,852
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
clum wrote:


People were tearing her to shreds years before she died. Why should it be any different now she's dead? I don't imagine the things people say about her are any more or less hurtful to her family now than they were when she was alive.

I was born and raised in Scotland, where "Thatcher" is a bad word. But I was born in 1991 and never knew, first-hand, her "reign of terror". I'm told by my family that it was a dreadful time for people across the UK, especially Scotland and The North.

I have neither respect nor disdain for Margaret Thatcher, for she never merited either from me. Her legacy is ingrained deep in the psyche of the Scottish people and it will not soon be forgotten, whether she is alive or dead. What an astonishing life, to have affected so many people so deeply, whether negatively or positively.

The day she died, I prayed for her life, though I never knew her. I sincerely hope she can find happiness in the next life, and bring happiness to others, too.

P.S. I hate Frankie Boyle.


It's probably true to say that he's a poor man's Jerry Sadowitz...

elitfromnorth
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:55:52 PM

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Marilyn37 wrote:
Look, I know that this is a topical debate.... which I have had over the past couple of days but my feeling is this: She was a strong woman who believed in what she did, didn't sway like the wind, like other politicians, probably didn't take advice either, which was apparently her downfall, however, she had more conviction then 99% of the crowd that are there now and will bend to whatever tune they think will benefit them. In fairness, how many people will talk about the politicians that are in power now after they are dead? They don't have any conviction... Right or wrong! Just my opinion, and I know won't suti a lot of people. The woman is gone now and what will be will be.


I could say the same about Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Franco and many other dictators that have caused very little but grief. Just because she was a strong politician while the current ones have the spines of jellyfish, doesn't mean that we should join the hail train.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:26:06 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,343
I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but I would like to say what I think of Thatcher's policies. I have been interested in politics from boyhood and was 14 when she came to power.

She became Prime Minister during a time when the unions had the country in a head lock. They had become totally out of control. At its worst, the streets were full of rubbish because of striking bin men and even funerals were postponed, owing to industrial action. The level of militancy among the unions had become critical.. Ineffective governments had failed to tackle them. Callagahan was a joke, and leaving the election as late as he did only made things worse. Maybe if he had called it for the previous autumn, everything would have been different... who knows?

What Thatcher did, was not only to take on people like Arthur Scargill, she enforced her ideology on the country. She might have won the battle against Scargill and the miners, but it was a pyrrhic victory. She took a sledge hammer to our manufacturing and industrial heartlands. The devastation it wrought on whole communtities, sometimes whole towns cannot be fully appreciated, unless you lived there.

Doing this, was not only an acute attack on our country, but it started to undermine society. Our country was built on its industry, particularly mining and the railways. The railways were already on the slide, but privatization simply put the nail in the coffin. The same went for the utilities. There was no merit in privatizing gas and electric and the railways. it just meant profit at the cost of the consumer.

Our culture, such as it is or was was set within the working class. Her scorched earth policies with no mitigation when she closed the mines was a disaster, and it's one that we're still paying for. Yes the unions needed to be tackled but with direct legislation and sensible, sustainable policies, which supported workers. Our country and its heart began to collapse, communities, which were the life blood of the state became the festering underclass. Given the right support and a measure of empathy, it could have been different.

Not wanting to be personal, but Margaret Thatcher had an unfortunate disconnect with society. She wasn't evil and at times could display remarkable compassion, but only on the individual level. When she said 'there's no such thing as society,' which is only part of her speech, she saw aspiration only as an individual goal. She failed to see society as a connected sum of its parts.

I could go on.

In the post Thatcher years, I believe Blair has a lot to answer for. Why, when he had his huge majority, didn't he re-nationalize the railways and utilities? Instead he was an infernal tinkerer, obsessed with political correctness and interference from the state. His government was a monumental missed opportunity.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:58:20 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
AbigailThornton wrote:


Do you not remember the Yugoslav Wars? There was a genuine fear that the whole of eastern Europe could descend into civil war as the unfinished business of WW2 fully unwound as the Soviet umbrella withdrew.

Britain uses the 'first-past-the-post' voting system, so "a minority mandate" is quite common given that there are three major political parties.


“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.”


― Mark Twain


You're aware of that which sits firmly planted in the made up country of Kosovo since the late 1990s?



GoogleEarth that sumbitch today.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
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