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Can "gun people" and "anti-gun people" ever come to the table together and talk Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:56:10 PM

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Location: United States
sprite wrote:


specifics please: events of discrimination based on your pro-gun stance. to help you out:

1. Bias or prejudice resulting in denial of opportunity, or unfair treatment regarding selection, promotion, or transfer. Discrimination is practiced commonly on the grounds of age, disability, ethnicity, origin, political belief, race, religion, sex, etc. factors which are irrelevant to a person's competence or suitability.

2. Unequal treatment provided to one or more parties on the basis of a mutual accord or some other logical or illogical reason.

3. Differences in two rates not explainable or justifiable by economic considerations such as costs.




Nah, sorry Beautiful. I've already gone way too far into my personal life as it is. You'll just have to take my word for it. Or don't. Choice is yours.

Monocle
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:57:15 PM

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Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
MrNudiePants wrote:



I didn't bring it up. I guess this one's aimed at you, Sprite.


You didn't bring it up? First mention of the IRS in this thread is you, NP.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:59:45 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,141
Location: United States
Monocle wrote:


You didn't bring it up? First mention of the IRS in this thread is you, NP.



Good God, you'd have to be a total, bloomin' idiot to not be able to understand the link between one person saying that the government won't ever infringe on a person's rights, and a rebuttal post showing the government doing just that. Are you a total, bloomin' idiot, Mon? if you are... well, they shoot horses, don't they?

Marshall_Lewis
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:59:53 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 329
Location: South Charleston , United States
Quote:
In all reality, what good would this do? Any halfway competent sheet metal worker can turn out a magazine that will hold any number of rounds in a matter of a couple hours. And even if they couldn't, how long does it take you to change a magazine? A couple seconds, if you're slow about it. So any potential rescuer responding to an emergency would have a handicap that the attacker wouldn't have - he followed the law and only had five rounds, whild the attacker had as many as he wished. How fair is that?


So we are going to let him run around with a clip that holds an excessive amount of ammo? Or do we put him off for at least a couple hours? Matter of hours can be the difference in a school full of kids and a empty school. Plus, unless they have the machine to do it at their house, you would figure the owner of the company will wonder why there was a shortage of production in his area and come asking questions.



Quote:
Now, all you have to do is completely retool the HIPAA laws to allow for release of confidential medical information to every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the planet. They can't only have access to the mental health records of people being treated for problems - they have to have EVERYONE'S, or else how are they going to know that you're sane?



In what part of that did I say release the medical records to every Tom, Dick and Harry? That's right, I didn't. In order to perform these test they would have to go in to a psychologist, all the would have to do is put down in your background a stamp or label that says "Do not allow to purchase firearms." No medical reason has to be promoted. You complain about this but yet do you complain about a website that says people are sex offenders? Pedophiles have a mental condition, but yet its ok for them to be plastered all over billboards but future murderers aren't?
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:00:38 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,585
Location: My Tower, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


Both those rifles can hold a "large magazine". Your "thirty rounds a minute" figure is bogus - they each fire one shot for each pull of the trigger. You can't legally modify either one to become fully automatic - if you do and you're found out, it earns you a lengthy stretch in the Federal slammer. Neither one is for "taking down mass targets", because neither one orients itself, aims itself at mass targets, or pulls its own trigger. They're tools, nothing more. It's already illegal to use them for "taking down mass targets", just as it's illegal to use a car, a knife, or a bomb. Passing another law won't get rid of them - Pandora's box is already opened. You can't shut it again. Not when any decent machinist with access to even a poorly equipped shop can physically construct a fully automatic machine gun in a matter of hours. You would have to take civilization back to the bronze age (or farther) to achieve your goal.



Unlike their military cousins — which have three-round burst settings — commercially available AR-15 type rifles like Bushmaster’s are semiautomatic, meaning one bullet per trigger pull. But a little searching on YouTube turns up numerous videos showing how quickly AR-15 type rifles can unload dozens of rounds and even one example of how to turn a “semi-auto into a full-auto machine using a household rubberband.”

if someone plans on shooting people, i doubt they'll be concerned with breaking a law modifying a gun. how about if we just make it a little more difficult to kill large numbers of people? is that really such an issue with you?


MrNudiePants wrote:

And "need" really has nothing to do with it.


ok, so it's all about want? I "want" to be able to drive my truck down the freeway at 100mph. but i don't. why? it's dangerous and it's against the law.

MrNudiePants wrote:

And FWIW, see this link. The IRS has formally apologized for targeting groups for investigation based entirely on the fact that those groups happened to have the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their name. How long before the IRS targets groups with "gay" or "pride" in their name? And gee... who do you suppose could have ordered the IRS to take such actions? I'm hardly a tin-foil hatter, but this kinda makes me go "Hmmmmmm."


i have NO ideas what any of the above has to do with gun control. as for the IRS targeting groups with 'gay' or 'pride' in their names, to be quite honest, i'm not so paranoid to think that it will be an issue. i'm more concerned with getting shot by intolerant bigots than i am about being unfairly taxed, quite honestly.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:03:30 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,585
Location: My Tower, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


Nah, sorry Beautiful. I've already gone way too far into my personal life as it is. You'll just have to take my word for it. Or don't. Choice is yours.


thought we already had this conversation. it's sprite. i'm not a lap dog to be patted in the head and called "beautiful". it's demeaning in my eyes.

oh, and ok, too personal. ok, how about if you cite how you perceive the writer of the editorial was discriminated against due to his pro-gun stance?

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:04:30 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
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Location: My Tower, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:



I didn't bring it up. I guess this one's aimed at you, Sprite.


don't look at me - i didn't bring it up - i had the same question as monocle.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:05:21 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,141
Location: United States
Master_Yoda wrote:


So we are going to let him run around with a clip that holds an excessive amount of ammo? Or do we put him off for at least a couple hours? Matter of hours can be the difference in a school full of kids and a empty school. Plus, unless they have the machine to do it at their house, you would figure the owner of the company will wonder why there was a shortage of production in his area and come asking questions.




Now I know that you're not being truthful about being a "gun person." Because a "gun person" knows that a magazine is just bent sheet metal, and it doesn't take any kind of special machine to do it. Fuck, I could do it right here with a pair of tin snips and a vice. Only someone equally as unlearned about guns as you are would take your word for anything.

Master_Yoda wrote:



In what part of that did I say release the medical records to every Tom, Dick and Harry? That's right, I didn't. In order to perform these test they would have to go in to a psychologist, all the would have to do is put down in your background a stamp or label that says "Do not allow to purchase firearms." No medical reason has to be promoted. You complain about this but yet do you complain about a website that says people are sex offenders? Pedophiles have a mental condition, but yet its ok for them to be plastered all over billboards but future murderers aren't?



So all gun owners are "future murderers"? Or just the ones that fail your test? Who designs the test, and who ensures that it's impossible to game the test? I feel a guy like Monocle could easily lie his way through it.

sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:07:35 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,585
Location: My Tower, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:



Good God, you'd have to be a total, bloomin' idiot to not be able to understand the link between one person saying that the government won't ever infringe on a person's rights, and a rebuttal post showing the government doing just that. Are you a total, bloomin' idiot, Mon? if you are... well, they shoot horses, don't they?


lol - i really should delete this post, seeing as it broke your own rules - really, name calling? threatening to shoot monocle? damn, where's KirstinD when you need her - oh, right, she's a hypocrite, so she gets censored. got it.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:08:01 PM

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Posts: 2,141
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sprite wrote:


thought we already had this conversation. it's sprite. i'm not a lap dog to be patted in the head and called "beautiful". it's demeaning in my eyes.

oh, and ok, too personal. ok, how about if you cite how you perceive the writer of the editorial was discriminated against due to his pro-gun stance?



You would have to ask him. And I don't mean to sound demeaning. I mean it as a compliment. You have my apology.

Monocle
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:08:47 PM

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Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
MrNudiePants wrote:



Good God, you'd have to be a total, bloomin' idiot to not be able to understand the link between one person saying that the government won't ever infringe on a person's rights, and a rebuttal post showing the government doing just that. Are you a total, bloomin' idiot, Mon? if you are... well, they shoot horses, don't they?


Passable baiting. But really, It demonstrates total lack of ability to contextualize or the most willful ignorance I've encountered on the net since usenet days.

Sprite's question:
Quote:
why is that such issue? do you really NEED to own something like that? if so, tell me why - and don't tell me it's to keep the government from stomping on your rights - please don't insult my intelligence like that.

It is painfully obvious she's asking why you'd need weapons of a particular kind, and her question about government overreach is to head off one of the classic answers. That you conflate it into something so completely other is really pretty damn twisted.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:09:26 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
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sprite wrote:


lol - i really should delete this post, seeing as it broke your own rules - really, name calling? threatening to shoot monocle? damn, where's KirstinD when you need her - oh, right, she's a hypocrite, so she gets censored. got it.


I didn't call anybody any names. I asked him if he's an idiot. Didn't call him one. Certainly better treatment than I've gotten on here of late.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:11:53 PM

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Posts: 2,141
Location: United States
Monocle wrote:

It is painfully obvious she's asking why you'd need weapons of a particular kind, and her question about government overreach is to head off one of the classic answers. That you conflate it into something so completely other is really pretty damn twisted.



"Need" has nothing to do with it. When the government gets to dictate what private citizens can purchase based on "need" then everybody will be driving around in Yugos and eating Ramen noodles for dinner. Because why would you "need" a car with more than 84 horsepower? And why would you "need" a Porterhouse Steak?

Monocle
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:14:09 PM

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Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
MrNudiePants wrote:



"Need" has nothing to do with it. When the government gets to dictate what private citizens can purchase based on "need" then everybody will be driving around in Yugos and eating Ramen noodles for dinner. Because why would you "need" a car with more than 84 horsepower? And why would you "need" a Porterhouse Steak?


I have no problem that you make that argument, stupid as I think it is. It's the other crap that violated your own thread rules (again).
Marshall_Lewis
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:15:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 329
Location: South Charleston , United States
Quote:
Now I know that you're not being truthful about being a "gun person." Because a "gun person" knows that a magazine is just bent sheet metal, and it doesn't take any kind of special machine to do it. Fuck, I could do it right here with a pair of tin snips and a vice. Only someone equally as unlearned about guns as you are would take your word for anything.


Not a gun person? Really do you even know me? No I guess not. I have been firing guns all my life, I spent time in the fucking desert so you could rest your little head on your pillow at night safely. Ok think of this one! A magazine for a assault rifle is next to the chamber in which firing 30 rounds in less than a min would fucking weld the sheet metal to the inside of your gun, so you have you to use a special carbon metal that will not get so hot in those conditions to weld itself in place.


Quote:
So all gun owners are "future murderers"? Or just the ones that fail your test? Who designs the test, and who ensures that it's impossible to game the test? I feel a guy like Monocle could easily lie his way through it.


Did I say that all gun owners are future murderers? No I didn't, the test its simple how about the same mental health test I had before I went into the military, where they reject thousands of these people for reasons I mentioned earlier and how about the same damn doctors that evaluated me at MEPs just before I went in to the military.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:17:08 PM

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Posts: 2,141
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sprite wrote:


Unlike their military cousins — which have three-round burst settings — commercially available AR-15 type rifles like Bushmaster’s are semiautomatic, meaning one bullet per trigger pull. But a little searching on YouTube turns up numerous videos showing how quickly AR-15 type rifles can unload dozens of rounds and even one example of how to turn a “semi-auto into a full-auto machine using a household rubberband.”

if someone plans on shooting people, i doubt they'll be concerned with breaking a law modifying a gun. how about if we just make it a little more difficult to kill large numbers of people? is that really such an issue with you?


Then they won't be concerned with making magazines that hold more than 5 rounds, either. How is any of that going to make anything more difficult for anyone intent on doing harm?


sprite wrote:


i have NO ideas what any of the above has to do with gun control. as for the IRS targeting groups with 'gay' or 'pride' in their names, to be quite honest, i'm not so paranoid to think that it will be an issue. i'm more concerned with getting shot by intolerant bigots than i am about being unfairly taxed, quite honestly.


You're entitled to whatever fears you want to have. I was just making a point, and you're deliberately pretending to misunderstand. You're a lot smarter than you're pretending to be.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:20:01 PM

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Master_Yoda wrote:


Not a gun person? Really do you even know me? No I guess not. I have been firing guns all my life, I spent time in the fucking desert so you could rest your little head on your pillow at night safely. Ok think of this one! A magazine for a assault rifle is next to the chamber in which firing 30 rounds in less than a min would fucking weld the sheet metal to the inside of your gun, so you have you to use a special carbon metal that will not get so hot in those conditions to weld itself in place.


Sorry, dude. Not buying it. I don't know you, but I know you by your statements here.

Marshall_Lewis
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:29:57 PM

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Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 329
Location: South Charleston , United States
Quote:
Sorry, dude. Not buying it. I don't know you, but I know you by your statements here


So just because I think that something could be done about 5, 6, 7, years getting shot for no reason, you think that I am not a gun person, and that I haven't spent time in the deserts of Iraq? Damn when are you going to tell God that he can come back from vacation cause your doing a pretty shitty job at judging people! Its cool though, you go on playing something that your not, while I go out and try to make a difference!
Guest
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:59:30 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
sprite wrote:


lol - i really should delete this post, seeing as it broke your own rules - really, name calling? threatening to shoot monocle? damn, where's KirstinD when you need her - oh, right, she's a hypocrite, so she gets censored. got it.



Kristin has been following you and observing just how much of a hypocrite MNP is. But then we already knew that, didn't we?

Sprite, I am copying this and sending it to you. So if he deletes again you'll know where I'm at.

Kristin shakes her head.......
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:04:35 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
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MrNudiePants wrote:



"Need" has nothing to do with it. When the government gets to dictate what private citizens can purchase based on "need" then everybody will be driving around in Yugos and eating Ramen noodles for dinner. Because why would you "need" a car with more than 84 horsepower? And why would you "need" a Porterhouse Steak?


one) can't really recall the last time someone used a porterhouse steak to kill mass quantities of school children (tho, i could easily make the argument, being a vegetarian, that thousands of people die annually as a result of eating too much meat, and i won't even go into the inhumane treatment of cattle in order to obtain your steak).

two) are you really suggesting that the government is going to somehow create legislation that forces people to eat only ramen noodles? you do realize how... ok, i was going to say paranoid, but i think i'll go with crazy instead... that sounds? :)

three) same argument for cars on both counts. not usually the go to weapon for theatre shootings, etc. andy yeah, pretty sure no one's putting a bill thru outlawing SUVs any time soon, either.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:59:19 AM

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Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Nudie: In all reality, what good would this do? Any halfway competent sheet metal worker can turn out a magazine that will hold any number of rounds in a matter of a couple hours. And even if they couldn't, how long does it take you to change a magazine? A couple seconds, if you're slow about it. So any potential rescuer responding to an emergency would have a handicap that the attacker wouldn't have - he followed the law and only had five rounds, whild the attacker had as many as he wished. How fair is that?




Quote:
Yoda:
So we are going to let him run around with a clip that holds an excessive amount of ammo? Or do we put him off for at least a couple hours? Matter of hours can be the difference in a school full of kids and a empty school. Plus, unless they have the machine to do it at their house, you would figure the owner of the company will wonder why there was a shortage of production in his area and come asking questions.



MrNudiePants wrote:


Now I know that you're not being truthful about being a "gun person." Because a "gun person" knows that a magazine is just bent sheet metal, and it doesn't take any kind of special machine to do it. Fuck, I could do it right here with a pair of tin snips and a vice. Only someone equally as unlearned about guns as you are would take your word for anything.



I'm not a gun person, but I have been around a few shops in my life. First off, I find it intriguing that you went from saying it would take a "halfway decent metal worker a few hours," to saying that you could do it right here, right now with tin snips, and a vice. If a half-way decent metal worker is going to take a couple hours to do it, I'm assuming the bends and cuts have to be done right, or else the ammunition will get stuck. Secondly, even if "tin snips and a vice" is all the equipment you need to do it, how many people actually have those? So, as Yoda mentions, they would have to go out and buy that, and then develop the skills to complete a "couple hours" task.

After talking about that, I have one big question: What does anyone's knowledge and skill in bending metal have to do with whether they are a gun person? Are you saying that all people who fire guns automatically know how to bend metal to exact specifications? That seems like a pretty big leap of logic.

And given the ferocity with which you jumped all over that compromise, I have to ask: How exactly are you trying to bridge the gap between gun advocates and those who want tighter controls? Is there one suggestion you have seen from the other side that you would be willing to consider?

Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:01:17 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
I sometimes love it when women take charge.


Hilary Clinton/Elizabeth Warren 2016. Dig it.

In case of confusion. I'm referring to the flanking of certain martyrs that are getting it from both ends. And, others are finally realizing certain faulty argument and practice.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:18:21 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on!

Doors
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:24:20 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
Highwayman wrote:
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on!

Doors


Good one. Highwayman. Luv the Doors.

Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:59:01 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383

Why don't gun nuts form a club where they can hunt and shoot each other, and leave children and the rest of us alone?

No, I don't want a gun to protect myself, and I don't have a raging, insane paranoia that the government is going to infringe my rights.

Who I need protection from is lunatics like Wayne LaPierre.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:39:39 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,383
When people discover responsibility or are forced to be responsible guns will not be an issue. No one receives consequence. you need protection from more than him Oberon. You need protection from those with no need or respect for life. And one day this country will realize that the mental health of its citizens is important. People do weird things out of fear. Responsibility in ownership and swift and brutal punishment if necessary for ignoring laws.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:46:07 AM

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Caveat there is a difference between making a mistake and arrogantly ignoring the right thing. Hunters don't shoot people and I agree they don't need 15 shell clips. You get caught with an unregistered handgun or one that is illegal you pay for it legally and you stay there you don't get your wrist slapped people learn from having things repeated
CleverFox
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:52:18 AM

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Location: United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


Which brings me to one of author Snell's primary points. Gun laws are being proposed and voted on by people with extremely limited experience with guns. There's no study, no finding of fact. Someone with no knowledge about the subject writes a bill, and if they're persuasive enough or have enough political clout, the bill gets passed into law. usually without even being read by the legislators that vote it in.

You're briefly familiar with firearms - you have a basic knowledge greater than some. Certainly you have a basic knowledge greater than Mme. Feinstein. And yet you're willing to allow some guns and disallow others, based purely on a scary name: "assault rifle".


Which of these two rifles is the more dangerous?








This is not a difficult test. The answer is really easy to guess.


Who really gives a crap about which gun is more dangerous? That is like asking if a bullet or a semi truck is more dangerous if it hits you; it all depends on how fast each of those objects happens to be traveling when it hits you. I want to keep either gun out of irresponsible hands.

One looks like it could be used to 'spray and pray' to get as many people as possible at close range and the other looks like the kind of weapon somebody would like to use from the top of a tall tower as a sniper weapon to pick people off at a distance.

Both of those weapons are quite deadly.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:56:15 PM

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Posts: 537,383
kaytydid wrote:
When people discover responsibility or are forced to be responsible guns will not be an issue. No one receives consequence. you need protection from more than him Oberon. You need protection from those with no need or respect for life. And one day this country will realize that the mental health of its citizens is important. People do weird things out of fear. Responsibility in ownership and swift and brutal punishment if necessary for ignoring laws.


The responsible thing to do is give up owning weapons.

The person with no respect for human life is Wayne LaPierre.
His job is selling guns.
He earns over a million bucks a year doing it, (which doesn't mean he doesn't have a mental illness.)

Yes, people do weird things because of fear - like buy weapons, thinking their own government's
against them. There are many kinds of mental illness.

aranturo
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 7:32:09 PM

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Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 5
Replace those terms with "Republicans" and "Democrats" and you pretty much will have the answer to your question.
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