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IRS admits they deliberately harrassed Conservative groups Options · View
Ruthie
Posted: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:13:48 PM

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Joined: 10/21/2010
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Location: United States
lafayettemister wrote:



If Obama is right of center, then I'm the Dalai Lama.



I agree that conservatives have moved so far right that he seems liberal, but then so does Nixon. His policies are to right of center of the classical European model. So were Clinton's. If we keep changing the meaning of what liberal is, soon Benito Mussolini will be a centrist.
Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:47:51 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,101
lafayettemister wrote:

If Obama is right of center, then I'm the Dalai Lama.


Not sure about the rest of what you said, but this, I do have perspective on. If you transplanted Obama into the country to your north, many of his policies would probably be too right wing for our Conservative Party, the party of the right wing in Canada. His health care plan especially comes to mind. The Conservatives would never risk suggesting something as weak as that, it would leave them forever labeled as the party which killed national health care in this country.
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:23:53 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 716
Location: Massachusetts, United States
lafayettemister wrote:


For controlling Congress and the media, the Republicans aren't very good at getting the results they desire. If they really controlled all of Congress and the media, then Pres. Obama wouldn't have been elected to two consecutive terms in office. If they controlled Congress, House and Senate... Obamacare would have been tabled, gun control talks would be tabled, abortion related issues would be entirely different, same sex marriage wouldn't even be a possibility. As for scandal, yeah the Republicans are looking for anything they can against Pres. Obama. But, it ain't like he's making it hard to find scandal.


Actually there have been very few scandals compared to previous administrations. Th GOP was faking a new scandal each week during the Clinton admin. And Bush was so corrupt and incompetent that almost everything he did was a scandal. Bush had AGs bring trumped up prosecutions against liberals and sacked AGs who refused to comply.

The GOP was unable to pass their agenda when they held the White House Senate and House though and they don't control Fox News, Fox News and Rupert Moloch control them.

I think that they knew that the IRS thing was going to be a problem for them and they waited till the GOP started peddling the fake Benghazi emails last week. They let the GOP hyperventilate for a week and make fools of themselves before releasing the evidence that the emails were faked. The Benghazi story is over now as far as the mainstream news is concerned.Fox will try to fan the dying embersnl and Glenn Beck will come up with ever sillier theories. But it is over.

Taking off the head of the IRS for lying to Congress might not have ended the tax issue, but given the fools the GOP made of themselves with fake evidence on the Benghazi story, don't expect the news media to be following up further. Again the right wing noise machine will try, but they don't drive the news cycle any more.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:19:19 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,102
Obama and Hillary Clinton are great at running for office, but not in running their office. For some reason they give the orders, but don't take responsibility and they both make it sound as if they have no idea what is going on around them. The point is that the IRS is being used outside its purpose. Now even Health Care is being controled by them. Obama is not the first to use the IRS as a political state police to punish his enemies as he calls them. Nixon did it and Johnson and Clinton. Hillary even had FBI records of those she claimed as "enemies" under her bed. LOL. The more you hear of their questions that they were asking for the more you understand how out of control Washington has gotten. They asked for emails, correspondence lists, and other questions that have nothing to do with an organization requesting tax exempt status. (And you know that some clerk in some far off city didn't do this on their own. Orders come from somewhere and in a huge organization like the government, the orders come from the top not from the bottom or the middle.)

You do know that every time you check something on the internet or if you buy something thru the mail that your name is collected and sold. You may be put on a list you have no desire for, but you are on their mailing list. Their correspondence list. And if the IRS asks an outfit for all the names they have and they give them yours that is tough. I know extreme right Progressives and far left Socialist think there is nothing wrong in having your leaders lie to you, and like East Germany did, keep records on everyone and report on everyone is justified. But it is not ok here.

This is not a one political side against another. It is loose your freedom or keep it. Those who believe in a police state and a one party system and no control over the government by the people take the side this is no problem. Those who prefer their freedom are the ones who are upset over Big Brother.

The IRS goes too far both ways. There are organizations that are excempt that are anything but charity organizations. As far as ANY political organization being tax exempt I don't believe they should be. A political organization is not a charity. Any money they receive should be made public and taxes should be paid. We all know organizations that have the status that are really money making outfits and their staffs make excellent salaries and money is not going to where it should. So I agree that the IRS should check ALL organizations and have them make their records public.

But I don't agree with a political boss or party using the IRS or any department of the government to fight their political enemies. That smacks of dictatorship. And any politican who does not take responisibility for his or her office should not be in office.

Guest
Posted: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:07:33 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,102
ScottFord wrote:
Obama is not the first to use the IRS as a political state police to punish his enemies as he calls them.

The IRS goes too far both ways. There are organizations that are excempt that are anything but charity organizations. As far as ANY political organization being tax exempt I don't believe they should be. A political organization is not a charity. Any money they receive should be made public and taxes should be paid. We all know organizations that have the status that are really money making outfits and their staffs make excellent salaries and money is not going to where it should. So I agree that the IRS should check ALL organizations and have them make their records public.

But I don't agree with a political boss or party using the IRS or any department of the government to fight their political enemies. That smacks of dictatorship. And any politican who does not take responisibility for his or her office should not be in office.



Hey Scott. I condensed your statement for space. I sooo agree with you on your middle statement. Convenient how politicians shape things for their own purpose, isn't it?

My bone is with your first and third statement about this IRS scandal. Sounds like you have already sleuthed this whole thing right up to Obama's doorstep. The truth is, the investigation has hardly begun and you're drawing conclusions. Fact is, the republicans have been trying to find something/anything to take down this President since he first won the election. If this President has any brains, you won't find this ending up in his lap or anywhere near his control. If it does I will be the most pissed off person on the planet because I have soooo wanted this President to succeed. After Bush I wanted Barack to show 'em how it's done. Especially when the slander began. This President was labeled a communist, a terrorist, an Arab jihadist, you name he's been labeled it. So, if this guy is guilty of anything I will be terribly let down.

What we do have is one party that is choking off any business getting done in America. The party of NO! has pulled every trick they can to obstruct the business of the nation from going forward. All to stop this President. The disrespect shown to this guy is unprecedented. Along with Benghazi, AP and IRS we have Umbrellagate (have you seen the criticism by the right because Obama asked the marines to hold umbrella's?). There was burgergate when Obama asked for dijon mustard and no ketchup. (how dare that arrogant man!) I don't think they were at McD's. And there is so much more while the bottom line has been...no work done in Washington.

Congress can, however spend $50,000,000 to repeal The Affordable Care Act...for the 40th time. What a wast of time, effort and money.

What we are going to see throughout the summer is an ongoing investigation where the right baits anyone close to Obama with obscure questions. Any slip by anyone near the administration is going to be fodder for more investigation. This is just how republicans roll. And democrats are such pussies. They never have the backbone to return the favor even when you're following the worst administration in America's history. I'm talking about the Iraq war and a president that would lie to get the U.S. involved in a war to settle a personal score. Obama campaigned that would investigate if he became President and then...he didn't.

The jury hasn't even been assembled in any of these 'scandals'. Premature to pin the blame anywhere.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:48:35 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
It's starting to shape up as not being as nefarious as people like Scott desperately wish to believe and promote.

Kristind wrote:
The jury hasn't even been assembled in any of these 'scandals'. Premature to pin the blame anywhere.


Sounds more like the fucking Ken Starr fiasco which lasted for the entire two terms of Clinton's administrations, and less like a well planned bank heist which the GOP fervently wishes they had revealed.

A total clusterfuck being operated by over worked, under paid people who meant well - but were operating without any true guidelines or directions.

Hell, I've worked for 4 Fortune 500 corporations where THAT was how they all operated.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Business as usual.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:48:24 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,102
Kristind wrote: "My bone is with your first and third statement about this IRS scandal. Sounds like you have already sleuthed this whole thing right up to Obama's doorstep. The truth is, the investigation has hardly begun and you're drawing conclusions. Fact is, the republicans have been trying to find something/anything to take down this President since he first won the election. If this President has any brains, you won't find this ending up in his lap or anywhere near his control. If it does I will be the most pissed off person on the planet because I have soooo wanted this President to succeed. After Bush I wanted Barack to show 'em how it's done. Especially when the slander began. This President was labeled a communist, a terrorist, an Arab jihadist, you name he's been labeled it. So, if this guy is guilty of anything I will be terribly let down."

Ms Lois Lerner is the higest person so far who is responsible for this mess. The two people the President threw under the bus were not involved. Anyone who takes the 5th in front of Congress is protecting their right not to admit to crimes they have committed. However, she made a slight legal statement before she invoked the 5th which opens her up to answering how and why and who ordered her to break the law. There is only one person who could have given her the order. She met with him or his uppper staff over a hundred times in the White House, but what was said and what orders were given are yet to be answered. I admit that President Obama has stated that he knows nothing about what is going on in his admistration and is not responsible for anything that has happened under his rule and I like you hope this is true even if it makes him a really bad leader and one of our worst presidents.

One of the things that does bother me is that she was promoted and that she may become the person in charge of what questions we (and I mean all of us) citizens will have to provide answers for by the IRS when Obamacare (which is really Clinton Care as it is former Secty. of State Clintons original plan) comes full force in Oct and our new tax forms in Jan. If you read the questions they were demanding answers to you would be upset.

The same people who are protecting the administration are the same ones who rightfully questioned Johnson, Nixon and Bush. However, for political reasons and for none other they bury their head in the sand now. When you can find no fault with a leader no matter what he does then you become like a religious fanatic and end up worshiping him or her like a god and anyone who so much as questions the Beloved Leader (there are all kinds of examples in present history and past) you think should be burned at the stake. This is not being a free person, but being a slave. It's true is you are a good slave maybe the Master will be kind to you and provide for you. Maybe.

I don't care if you are a person who belives in the Constitution or a follower of Soro's or Lenin or Hitler or King Lear you must step back and look at the facts and keep a clear head and judge things by the facts. Let the Adminstration answer all the questions and provide all the facts and let the people judge.
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:03:10 PM

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Joined: 11/14/2010
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Location: Massachusetts, United States
Scott, Lerner was placed on administrative leave. Which is likely as much as the administration can do to her under civil service rules because she is career civil service not an appointee.

I can't see any mention of a promotion. Occasionally the way that someone is dismissed from the career civil service is that they are promoted to an appointed slot. That is how the Clintons got rid of Linda Tripp. They promoted her to an appointed slot and then let the Bush crew can her. They knew Bush would fire her because Tripp had previously been the source that disclosed Bush senior's extra marital affair as president. The reason Tripp was so keen to get tapes on Clinton was that she had failed to nail Bush senior.

Lerner is done as far as working for the IRS is concerned. But she will probably hang on till she gets her full pension rights.

The idea that Issa is going to have her prosecuted for contempt of Congress is rather silly. He does not get to make that decision. The theory that a witness waives their rights by making a statement only goes back to the McCarthy era. It has never been tested in court and nobody particularly wants to try. Forcing her to testify will de facto give her immunity from prosecution.

But it is all nonsense anyway as the GOP has already decided to impeach over Benghazi despite the fact that nobody can explain what Obama is meant to have done that was illegal.

Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:18:56 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,149
Location: Atlanta, United States
There won't be any impeachment over Benghazi. At least any successful impeachment. But I would like to see the IRS be forced to tone way down. They can be used as a weapon against opposition by either party that gains power and have been in the past. I would like to see that possibility taken out of the filthy entangling political equation.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

Guest
Posted: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:45:02 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,102
ScottFord wrote:


Anyone who takes the 5th in front of Congress is protecting their right not to admit to crimes they have committed. However, she made a slight legal statement before she invoked the 5th which opens her up to answering how and why and who ordered her to break the law. There is only one person who could have given her the order.

One of the things that does bother me is that she was promoted and that she may become the person in charge of what questions we (and I mean all of us) citizens will have to provide answers for by the IRS when Obamacare (which is really Clinton Care as it is former Secty. of State Clintons original plan) comes full force in Oct and our new tax forms in Jan. If you read the questions they were demanding answers to you would be upset.

The same people who are protecting the administration are the same ones who rightfully questioned Johnson, Nixon and Bush. However, for political reasons and for none other they bury their head in the sand now. When you can find no fault with a leader no matter what he does then you become like a religious fanatic and end up worshiping him or her like a god and anyone who so much as questions the Beloved Leader (there are all kinds of examples in present history and past) you think should be burned at the stake. This is not being a free person, but being a slave. It's true is you are a good slave maybe the Master will be kind to you and provide for you. Maybe.

I don't care if you are a person who belives in the Constitution or a follower of Soro's or Lenin or Hitler or King Lear you must step back and look at the facts and keep a clear head and judge things by the facts. Let the Adminstration answer all the questions and provide all the facts and let the people judge.


Once again it sounds like you have more facts down than Issa and his investigation. She took the 5th because there is an open investigation going on and any attorney would advise their client to take the 5th in such a situation. But you have her guilty. What a shame. And she was not promoted. She was put on paid administrative leave which is the first step to getting rid of her.
Scott, you go on about following or finding no fault with leaders. Really just blowing a lot of hot air. I don't know what you are referring to. You calling me a slave? Really. What kind of prima donna birthday cake did you pop out of? The only thing that made any sense was your last sentence...Let the Adminstration answer all the questions and provide all the facts and let the people judge.

But it sounds like you're not following your own advise.
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:16:43 AM

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Location: Massachusetts, United States
Buz wrote:
There won't be any impeachment over Benghazi. At least any successful impeachment. But I would like to see the IRS be forced to tone way down. They can be used as a weapon against opposition by either party that gains power and have been in the past. I would like to see that possibility taken out of the filthy entangling political equation.


I think the GOP lost control of their Tea Party base long ago. Avoiding impeachment is going to be a big political cost to many in the primaries. Before long they will be telling each other it is not going to be such a disaster.

It is far from clear that anything wrong, let alone illegal happened with the IRS. The Tea Party groups were claiming to be charitable institutions that were not engaged in political activity. It is a matter of public record that Karl Rove's Crossroads 'charity' spent over $100 million on campaign ads in 2012. Damn right there should be investigations. They should investigate any liberal groups who abuse the tax code to conceal donors as well.

A simple way to eliminate the problem would be to require all groups that spend more than $25,000 on political campaign ads to disclose their donors over $1,000 regardless of their tax registration. That would eliminate the incentive to abuse the system.

Lerner was a Bush administration appointee. It is hardly surprising that she would plead the fifth after GOP members of Congress had already demanded she be arrested and charged.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:29:43 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,102
I'm not trying to prejudge anyone and I don't want to upset anyone on their seeing things different. When I say people want to be slaves, what I mean is if you don't keep an open mind and question those in authority over you to ensure they are doing their job as they are required, then you act like a slave and could end up one. (By the way I have known real slaves and have known people who lived under communists and nazi rule through my fathers career).

I got the information of her promotion from the news, but as we all know our news media is nothing but entertainment and bias political entertainment. (And if someone is unqualified for their job, they should be fired, union or no union.) So just hearing it on the news is no excuse for me to post it as fact. I should keep an open mind just as I am asking others to.

What bothers me is the questions that the IRS was asking. I'm sure you heard about the IRS and DOJ raid on the company that makes guitar instruments. Add that to the fact that people in the Administration say they don't have any idea what is going on under their watch and not telling the truth is something we should not have to stand for as we didn't in the past. In the past whenever the Administration or Congress or the Justices made statements or actions the press would jump all over them and the people would demand the truth. You can list every President from both parties in the last 20 years or more have tried to cover up problems for political reasons, but were forced by pressure from the press and the people to explain. But things are different now. People brush everything off saying their leader or party can make no mistakes and that to complain and ask for explainations is unthinkable. The news media is a political arm of one party or the other.

Have you read the questions the IRS was asking? "What books do you read?" "What do you pray for?" "Are you or family or anyone you know going to run for office?" I agree that books can be a danger to some ruling parties. It is the duty of the state to protect us from them. The Nazi's helped protect their people. This is over kill, but if you look at the pattern of how Washington is using Chicago style corruption it is better to question than to bury your head in the sand. One of the Talking Heads from the Administration when questioned if those of the Islam religion are questioned as the Administration's IRS did the others threw a fit saying "You are against...." etc. In other words do we now have a State Religion? I thought that was one of the things our Revolution was against.

And having political groups from just one side being given status, but a group from another side being subject to illegal political pressure from an organization of the government is wrong. I believe as ByronLord does that NO political group should be given tax free status and that also the Supreme Court in rewriting the laws and Constitution when Congress of all people tried to have restraits on money given for political purposes said it was ok for "Brown Bag" money. If all money was to be limited as to group, people and organizations as ByronLord says and if the news media would give equal coverage and no editioral except under the "Editoral Page" at no cost to all running for an office it would cut down on having only the corrupt who have been paid for controling the offices and maybe we actually get someone from the middle class or the poor in office.

And yes the President lied about what happened in Africa and sent his people out to lie and people died because people within the State Department and White House failed to do their duty. He also made the "I'm your buddy" tour to many of the dictators when he first came to office. I have a speech he made in 2008 saying his desire if preident is to bring down the U.S. and its military so his Arab brothers would no longer be afraid of us. I can print it if anyone wants. But we put him in office so this is what we wanted. Like when Johnson was elected, everyone knew we would get deeply involved in VietNam, but the people wanted it. We can't really blame our leaders becasue we are the ones who put them in office.

And the 5th is to protect yourself, if you feel that what you might say will harm you, and an attorney will tell you to keep your mouth shut. But when have you ever seen anyone before Congress who used the 5th over and over that didn't have something to hide? In the end it comes out. I admit any facts I have, if more than Congress, comes from reading what has come out. Most of those in the Committee just gave prepared party speeches and didn't really ask questions. Besides remember Congress has a rep of not even reading their own bills, let alone looking at the material you and I can get. It would be nice if the Administration would answer all the questions and provide all the facts on their own without being forced, but it never has happened before so don't expect it to happen now.

One thing none of us want is for the governement to step outside their duty and use their power for "their" political purposes. If they want to know what books you read, next they will be asking what sites you go to on the internet, etc. Censorship and Chicago style corruption can take over anywhere real easy. Here in Calif. we have cities that are just as corrupt as Chicaggo, Washington, Detroit, New Orleans, etc. Because the people didn't question but just accepted.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:31:39 AM

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^^^ aint nobody reading all that shit, Stevie wonder.



Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:49:11 PM

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Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,166
Location: United States
ScottFord: One reason that there is a policy that must be followed in firing people in government service is to prevent people from being dismissed from their jobs over matters of politics. People in appointed positions can be removed easily, those who are career civil servants don't need to be fearful of losing their jobs every time there is a change in administrations. Imagine the problem that would be created by replacing the entire bureaucracy every presidential cycle.

The DOJ raided Gibson guitars looking for illegal woods that are sometimes used in manufacturing guitars. Some tropical woods are not allowed to be imported into the USA. Do you think Gibson should be able to bypass U.S laws and regulations?
Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:05:48 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,149
Location: Atlanta, United States
The IRS doesn't have to work by the same ethical code as federal & state law enforcement officials do. The US Congress needs to put an end to that. The IRS should be required to get subpoenas and operate the same as the FBI, ATF, and your local police when investigating cases. The legal concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' is not used by the IRS. They are bullies and in our current system, the IRS can be used for political gain by whichever party is in power. They can also act on their own to harass groups because of possible political affiliation or according to their beliefs. We as citizens can do something about that. Lobby your congressperson for serious IRS change. This is the time to do because right now after they've been caught for wrong doing, the IRS is vulnerable.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

Milik_Redman
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:19:47 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,700
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
ByronLord wrote:


I think the GOP lost control of their Tea Party base long ago. Avoiding impeachment is going to be a big political cost to many in the primaries. Before long they will be telling each other it is not going to be such a disaster.

It is far from clear that anything wrong, let alone illegal happened with the IRS. The Tea Party groups were claiming to be charitable institutions that were not engaged in political activity. It is a matter of public record that Karl Rove's Crossroads 'charity' spent over $100 million on campaign ads in 2012. Damn right there should be investigations. They should investigate any liberal groups who abuse the tax code to conceal donors as well.

A simple way to eliminate the problem would be to require all groups that spend more than $25,000 on political campaign ads to disclose their donors over $1,000 regardless of their tax registration. That would eliminate the incentive to abuse the system.

Lerner was a Bush administration appointee. It is hardly surprising that she would plead the fifth after GOP members of Congress had already demanded she be arrested and charged.


I agree with much of what you said regarding how these PACS are operated, but right now the law allows this, and the fact remains that the IRS based their actions on affiliation, not action.

I don't much get involved in politics and have little respect for either party. That said I think it well established that wrong doing was done. We as citizens should be outraged regardless of our political associations when an instrument of the federal government is used as a cudgel to harm the other. If you stomach that, how can you possibly complain when the party you don't like does the same? Politics are not a game, and it's a shameful thing to root for one side or the other as if the referee got the call wrong

This was an incredibly stupid to thing to do and one they should have realized was going to come back and harm them. Either in the media, or once the repulicans come back to power, they were certain to want revenge. I am saddened that things like this happen because it means people have more invested in their party than they do rule of law.

Watergate and Iran Contra or Abscam and this, if you are willing to make excuses, you are part of the problem.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
lafayettemister
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 8:10:43 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,341
Location: Alabama, United States
Huffington Post

Seems the IRS was targeting more Conservative groups than originally thought.

In 2009 the IRS made one anti-abortion group promise not to picket/protest Planned Parenthood and demanded to know how their prayers and protest were considered educational.

In 2011, another IRS employee asked Christian Voices for Life of Fort Bend County in Texas whether it provided "education on both sides of the issues" in its programs and whether its members try to speak with anyone entering medical clinics, correspondence shows.

As time passes, it's very likely more and more stories like this will come to light. People have become so entrenched in their political bunkers they can't see the writing on the wall. It's like politics has become a sport and we support our team at all cost, even when they're in the wrong. This much corruption, this much HIGHLY questionable behavior cannot be coincedence and can't be swept under the rug.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Buz
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 8:21:22 AM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,149
Location: Atlanta, United States
It shapes up like this, the Obama administration is no more or no less corrupt than the Bush administration. Thinking either way only proves that your views are either prejudiced left or right of center. The Obamists play down and try to discredit the scandals of his cohorts and ditto for the Bushers. In reality both of them smell like a big pile of shit! What's worse is there is probably no electable candidate in either corrupt party for the upcoming election that offers anything except more of the same.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

ByronLord
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 9:28:54 AM

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Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 716
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Milik_The_Red wrote:


I agree with much of what you said regarding how these PACS are operated, but right now the law allows this, and the fact remains that the IRS based their actions on affiliation, not action.


Actually the law is very clear that it DOES NOT allow charities to engage in political action.

It was the corrupt conservatives on the Supreme Court who decided that corporations are people and so unlike people can give unlimited contributions to political causes.

Three of those judges are the ones that stole the 2000 election for Bush by stopping the Florida recount and so the only count available was the one made by King George's brother.

Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 12:32:50 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,700
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
ByronLord wrote:


Actually the law is very clear that it DOES NOT allow charities to engage in political action.

It was the corrupt conservatives on the Supreme Court who decided that corporations are people and so unlike people can give unlimited contributions to political causes.

Three of those judges are the ones that stole the 2000 election for Bush by stopping the Florida recount and so the only count available was the one made by King George's brother.


Again, those are political opinions, not a fact of law. The Supreme Court is the final arbiter of the law, and by constitional authority, they have the final say. It may not be paletable, but that is the way it works at the moment.

Secondly, if your position is based on the fact that the Tea Party is a political org. Then please let me know how you feel that no liberal organizations were targeted? Or do you believe that no liberal organization antwhere gets that exemption?

My position is that by targeting their political enimies, they have done for more damage to the nation than any thing a PAC has done, whether they be from the right or the left.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 12:36:55 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,700
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Buz wrote:
It shapes up like this, the Obama administration is no more or no less corrupt than the Bush administration. Thinking either way only proves that your views are either prejudiced left or right of center. The Obamists play down and try to discredit the scandals of his cohorts and ditto for the Bushers. In reality both of them smell like a big pile of shit! What's worse is there is probably no electable candidate in either corrupt party for the upcoming election that offers anything except more of the same.


This I agree with. I have no love of Bush 1 or 2. I think they both enjoyed their wars far to much. Obama has appeared to enjoy continuing them a bit much for my taste as well.

What really burns me is excuse making. As long as people do that, they justify wrong doing by our leaders. This is up to the people to stop. Its our fault because we are not doing our duty as citizens.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Ruthie
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 4:52:13 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,166
Location: United States
Milik_The_Red wrote:



Secondly, if your position is based on the fact that the Tea Party is a political org. Then please let me know how you feel that no liberal organizations were targeted? Or do you believe that no liberal organization antwhere gets that exemption?



It's a false assumption that no liberal or progressive groups were targeted. Democratic groups received the same letter as the conservative groups.

“It is also important to understand that the group of centralized cases included organizations of all political views,” the IRS said in its statement.

Emerge America, a progressive group had it's tax exempt status denied. Which of the Republican groups have said that their requests were denied?

LadyX
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 9:18:36 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,656
Location: United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


It's a false assumption that no liberal or progressive groups were targeted. Democratic groups received the same letter as the conservative groups.


Yeah. 3 whole groups. And the Washington Post is not exactly known to carry water for conservative movements.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/15/report-the-irs-also-targeted-at-least-three-liberal-groups/

Quote:


“It is also important to understand that the group of centralized cases included organizations of all political views,” the IRS said in its statement.



Ah..well, if their own spokesperson says so, then it must be true. I don't know anything about Evolve America, or any of the 90-odd conservative/libertarian groups that were targed, for that matter. I do agree that anyone that doesn't meet the parameters for a desired tax status shoudn't be approved for it, but the IRS is a grease fire when it comes to credibility either way. A 90-3 ratio of political scrutiny will never look balanced and apolitical, even if 1 of those 3 got their status denied.
Milik_Redman
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 9:37:16 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,700
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
LadyX wrote:


Ah..well, if their own spokesperson says so, then it must be true. // I do agree that anyone that doesn't meet the parameters for a desired tax status shoudn't be approved for it, but the IRS is a grease fire when it comes to credibility either way. A 90-3 ratio of political scrutiny will never look balanced and apolitical, even if 1 of those 3 got their status denied.


Well said. This thread exemplifies why I don't like arguing politics. Disagree and besmirch someone's golden calf and you get labeled something they hate.

I'm probably the most liberal person I've ever met, and I've met quite a few, but as soon as I dare pointing out that the political left is just as interested in acquiring power as the right, I've been labeled a conservative. It's insulting. (That is a rant aimed at my personal life, not here. Everyone here has been very reasonable)

I will not back a side because it pretends to agree with me and I will call out injustice when I see it. In this particular case, the ones who abused the system are painfully obvious.



“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Ruthie
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 9:39:19 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,166
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


Ah..well, if their own spokesperson says so, then it must be true. I don't know anything about Evolve America, or any of the 90-odd conservative/libertarian groups that were targed, for that matter. I do agree that anyone that doesn't meet the parameters for a desired tax status shoudn't be approved for it, but the IRS is a grease fire when it comes to credibility either way. A 90-3 ratio of political scrutiny will never look balanced and apolitical, even if 1 of those 3 got their status denied.


I was responding to a previous post that said no liberal groups were targeted. "No," means none. Zero. Liberal groups were targeted. Which conservative group was denied funding?
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 9:53:48 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,656
Location: United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


I was responding to a previous post that said no liberal groups were targeted. "No," means none. Zero. Liberal groups were targeted. Which conservative group was denied funding?


According to that source, none. But I don't see how that proves anything substantial. So they all got through: big deal. It was the process of scrutiny that is the main issue now. 90 or so groups targeted, versus 3. Even if it was a 2 to 1 ratio, it would be damning and embarrassing. The current situation is just blatant.

With that in mind, outcome is somewhat immaterial. Aside from that If they've met the requirements, then there shouldn't be an issue with the approval. And if they didn't, then there shouldn't be an issue with the rejection. Then again, it is the IRS...so....
Ruthie
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 11:10:35 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,166
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


According to that source, none. But I don't see how that proves anything substantial. So they all got through: big deal. It was the process of scrutiny that is the main issue now. 90 or so groups targeted, versus 3. Even if it was a 2 to 1 ratio, it would be damning and embarrassing. The current situation is just blatant.

With that in mind, outcome is somewhat immaterial. Aside from that If they've met the requirements, then there shouldn't be an issue with the approval. And if they didn't, then there shouldn't be an issue with the rejection. Then again, it is the IRS...so....


What about the 225 applications that were singled out that weren't from conservative political organizations? Do only liberal and conservative groups count? Ninety groups were conservative, two hundred twenty five were not. Not just conservative groups were asked to justify their tax exempt status.

The IRS reviews every 501(c )(4) application. The narrative of the partisan political IRS conspiracy against conservative groups is false. It is something that never happened. The IRS needed a way to manage the huge number of applications it was getting from political organizations after the Citizens United decision.

This is just more subterfuge to keep our minds off the fact that corporations and special interests are buying the American political system. The fact that corporations are considered people and can freely use their money to influence politics is the real scandal. Like Jeffery Toobin said: " " ... the scandal isn't what's illegal - it's what's legal. It's what society chooses not to punish that tells us most about the prevailing ethical standards of the time."

While groups like Karl Rove's and the Koch brothers continue to manipulate public opinion, pour money into right wing causes, and use their wealth to empower themselves and keep the rest of us from making any impact by flooding the airwaves with right wing propaganda that keeps the public uninformed to the point that they will vote against their own interests, the media distracts us with petty crime.

Just another false flag operation.
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2013 5:40:46 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 716
Location: Massachusetts, United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:

What about the 225 applications that were singled out that weren't from conservative political organizations? Do only liberal and conservative groups count? Ninety groups were conservative, two hundred twenty five were not. Not just conservative groups were asked to justify their tax exempt status.


Political organizations do not get tax exemption but they are not (usually) paying much in the way of taxes because the money they collect as donations goes out as political activity. The only taxes that a political campaign group would be paying would be interest etc.

What this dodge is all about is hiding the origina of vast amounts of cash, over $100 million in the case of Sheldon Adleson, from the public. The reason so many Republican linked groups prefer this dodge is that groups wanting to buy favors tend to see the GOP as easier to buy than the Democrats. Its quite hard for a Democrat to support a plan to build a pipeline to ship toxic oil sludge across the US so that it can be loaded onto ships in Texas and sent off to China. But paid enough money the Republicans will do that for a donor.

Not having to open the books makes it easier to divert funds as well. Ginny Thomas, the wife of a Supreme Court judge gets pait $800,000 a year for 'lobbying' from companies with cases before he husbands court.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 5:43:26 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/irs-targets-occupy-progressive/66550/

Elspeth Reeve 3,567 Views Jun 24, 2013

The IRS did not just target Tea Party groups in 2010 — newly obtained documents show it targeted groups with the words "Occupy" and "Progressive," too. That means that while the IRS's scrutiny of groups seeking non-profit status was inappropriate, it was not political.

It was not a case of President Obama directing — explicitly or implicitly — the IRS to silence conservative critics.

It was a case of the IRS targeting SEO keywords — the stuff people were talking about on political blogs.


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Monocle
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 7:07:28 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 286
And the outcry on the political right of "RIGHTS BEING STOMPED ON!!!" ratchets up and gets louder in universal and bipartisan indignation at IRS overreach...

*crickets*

I guess it only matters to them when (they think) they're the only oppressed ones.
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