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the role of the dom and sub Options · View
danosjenning
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:13:46 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 142
Location: Australia
ive been wondering what people views are on the role of the dom are to the sub and vice versa.
can anyone help me out with my basic understanding of this? cheers
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:07:32 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
Firstly, it's "vice versa", not vise. Secondly, the role of the Dom to the sub will vary according to the relationship and the individuals involved. It's not a one size fits all routine. Look up the words domination and submission in a dictionary. Try to grasp their extrinsic and intrinsic meanings. Read some of the D/s bogs. There is a TON of information to be found, some good, some not so much. Again, remember that you build the relationship between the two (or more) of you. Dominants generally lead, submissives generally follow. Earn a submissive's respect by how you behave. It's not force, it's strength of character. It's not abuse, it's passion. It's not trying to make someone bow down, it's creating a relationship that they want to. It's not inequality, it's finding the right equality. It's not role-playing, it's allowing the natural personality to emerge. And so much more, of course.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:34:02 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
This is pretty complex and fascinating to me. I find the terms dom and sub to be a bit of a misnomer when applied to BDSM. On first glance the "dom" seems like they are the ones in charge. Nothing can be farther from the truth. In fact, it is the sub that has all the real power in the relationship.

The sub allows the dom to please them. The sub is the one that decides how far things go and for how long. For example, say a dom is spanking the sub. It's the sub that is getting pleased. The sub will allow it to continue for as long as they want not whatever the dom wants. Without the sub the dom is nothing. The subs will even have a safe word, the safe word is just like "stop" with non BDSM couples...

Who has the power? The sub of course. The term dom or master are just there to give a false sense of power.



Guest
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:10:03 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
Magical_felix wrote:
This is pretty complex and fascinating to me. I find the terms dom and sub to be a bit of a misnomer when applied to BDSM. On first glance the "dom" seems like they are the ones in charge. Nothing can be farther from the truth. In fact, it is the sub that has all the real power in the relationship.

The sub allows the dom to please them. The sub is the one that decides how far things go and for how long. For example, say a dom is spanking the sub. It's the sub that is getting pleased. The sub will allow it to continue for as long as they want not whatever the dom wants. Without the sub the dom is nothing. The subs will even have a safe word, the safe word is just like "stop" with non BDSM couples...

Who has the power? The sub of course. The term dom or master are just there to give a false sense of power.


Er, you make it sound like the Dom isn't getting pleasure from a spanking, just the sub? Without the Dom who pleases the sub? The real power is the relationship itself and what they make of it together, like any relationship. If you think it's a "false sense of power", I'm not sure you understand the dynamics involved in "power exchange".
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:37:23 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
yourmisterdark wrote:


Er, you make it sound like the Dom isn't getting pleasure from a spanking, just the sub? Without the Dom who pleases the sub? The real power is the relationship itself and what they make of it together, like any relationship. If you think it's a "false sense of power", I'm not sure you understand the dynamics involved in "power exchange".


Someone that doesn't need to be called a master can please the sub? In fact, most relationship dynamics are like that. It's when there is a lack of real life power that these terms are needed to make the master feel better. That is why it is a misnomer. If, how you say, the relationship is the power... Then the dom, by your rationale, isn't in control like how they appear to be.

I'd bet you euros to dollars that the sub can dump a dom and find someone else to please them easier than a dom can go out and find a sub. (and it's not because it is a special process to find a sub or some horse shit, it's because the sub/slaves/pets are the real masters. They top from the bottom)



MasterJonathan
Posted: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:38:23 PM

Rank: Gentleman Master

Joined: 3/6/2013
Posts: 1,229
Location: God's Deep Freezer, United States
While some of what you say it true Felix, a sub does hold the power in some regards (after all it is HER submission we are talking about - a gift from her to the Dom she serves) MisterDark also makes some valid points. It is not about who leads and who follows so much as it is the relationship where both get what they need. A Master is nothing but a man without a submissive to dominate, and a submissive is nothing but a needy girl without a Master to serve. It is the combination, the Yin and the Yang, that makes D/s. I mean it's right there in the term D/s!

Here is My view of the "ranking" if you will, of the Dominant role (of a male since that's what I am)

1st, you must be a man. Not a boy trying to be a man, a man. Grow up.
2nd, you must be a gentleman. Learn some manners and how to treat a woman.
3rd, you must be a Dominant. A woman is not going to follow if she has to lead too. Take charge and lead.
4th, Learn your craft. Learn your sub. Learn what pleases her, what makes her wet. Learn her mind and what she desires. Once you have learned to dominate her mind, then you can dominate her body. When you have learned your submissive inside and out, THEN (and only then) can you become her Master.

I am a Master not because I can spell the word, but because I put the time in - years of time - to learn what makes My submissive tick. I know how to fuck her mind as well as her body. I know what she wants better than her. I can get her aroused and squirming without saying a word. And THAT boys and girls, is what a MASTER is.

Guest
Posted: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:13:32 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
Very aptly put, MJ *gentlemanly applause*
SeaSiren
Posted: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:48:05 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2013
Posts: 564
Location: Gulf Coast, United States
Oh brother...
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:56:11 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
MasterJonathan wrote:
A Master is nothing but a man without a submissive to dominate, and a submissive is nothing but a needy girl without a Master to serve.


laughing8

MasterJonathan wrote:
I mean it's right there in the term D/s!




Which is a misnomer. Kinda like a koala bear. It's not really a bear. Just because it is the term used doesn't make it true or convincing to anyone besides the master wanting/needing some sort of power in their life.

MasterJonathan wrote:

Here is My view of the "ranking" if you will, of the Dominant role (of a male since that's what I am)

1st, you must be a man. Not a boy trying to be a man, a man. Grow up.
2nd, you must be a gentleman. Learn some manners and how to treat a woman.
3rd, you must be a Dominant. A woman is not going to follow if she has to lead too. Take charge and lead.
4th, Learn your craft. Learn your sub. Learn what pleases her, what makes her wet. Learn her mind and what she desires. Once you have learned to dominate her mind, then you can dominate her body. When you have learned your submissive inside and out, THEN (and only then) can you become her Master.



Learn what turns women on? You don't say... I would have never thought of that.

The rest sounds like it was cut and pasted out of the "masters for dummies" book.

Plus I have never met a master of any trade or art form that constantly reminds people that they are a master. They don't need to. Look how many times you do in this post. It's even in your screen name. Your'e a master like I'm a doctor when I want to get kinky with my bitch. Doesn't mean I am qualified to give medical advice.

MasterJonathan wrote:

I am a Master not because I can spell the word, but because I put the time in - years of time - to learn what makes My submissive tick. I know how to fuck her mind as well as her body. I know what she wants better than her. I can get her aroused and squirming without saying a word. And THAT boys and girls, is what a MASTER is.



It takes you years to learn what makes a chick tick? That does not sound very masterly... It really doesn't. Not trying to clown on you but seriously... Years? If you take out some of the master mumbo jumbo out of what you just said it sounds fairly standard. watch.

Quote:
I know how to fuck her mind as well as her body. I know what she wants. I can get her aroused and squirming without saying a word.


^^^ pretty much any guy can say that about their girlfriend.

The term master is to give a false sense of power. Something missing from the masters real life.

You don't see presidents of companies demanding their wife call them President at home too or getting all tantrumy if she forgets to capitalize the p in president if she is texting him. That whole capitalizing the m in master thing is a constant reassurance the master needs out of fear the sub might forget who is "boss". Doesn't sound very masterly either.





Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:59:06 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
yourmisterdark wrote:
Very aptly put, MJ *gentlemanly applause*


Quiet down little boy.



Guest
Posted: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:37:14 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:56:48 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
danosjenning wrote:
ive been wondering what people views are on the role of the dom are to the sub and vise versa.
can anyone help me out with my basic understanding of this? cheers


First of all, Danosjenning, You might have picked up a little about the D/s roles from the thread, but you might be a lil confused now. I am not at all the best person to talk to about this subject as I only know a little, so hopefully other members will come along and give you their views.

I find this thread and the topic itself very interesting. As I understand it a D/s relationship is a personal life or fantasy choice between two or more people. It's based on there being a leader, and a follower, trust and communiction are VITAL. Mostly no different to any other relationship between 2 people. IF a submissive wants to call the Dominant Sir, Mister, Master or even Charlie etc, they do it of their own free will out of respect. There is no degradation, mental or physical abuse. In a true D/s relationship nobody is forced to do anything against their own free will.

Nobody FORCES a submissive to do anything they don't want to do. It's a lifestyle CHOICE. Most Dominant's don't expect anyone outside their relationship to call them Master etc.... because in real life, most of their friends/family don't know they have chosen this lifestyle. It's not automatically an expectation a true Dominant would have. There are no hard and fast rules to these or any relationships. Don't couples usually work out what they want and need from each other between themselves?

Are couples who choose to live this lifestyle in real life any different to other couples? The Amish choose a 'different' lifestyle, so do people from all cultures. I don't see why/how a D/s relationship should be seen differently.

Lush is an erotic literature site, it's about Fantasy, experimentation, and talking/learning about sex. It's not the real world. I think the majority of people on lush probably didn't choose usernames they want to be called in real life, a lot of them are only an indication of what type of stories they write.

What I've said in this post are my opinions only. If I have written anything about the D/s relationship that is incorrect, anybody, please feel free to let me know and I will correct it.
Peter242
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2013 8:34:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 55
Hi, As a dedicated sub, who has recently enjoyed switching with a lovely lady, I believe both the sub and the dom must each enjoy what they are doing / are having done to them As important, at the same time both must be happy the other is having as much fun. It should not be a chore for either.

Whether you are a sub or a dom is inherent in yourself. Giving and receiving pain must be erotic for both.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:18:54 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
I like to thank everyone on this post for the information and words they have given it makes you think about what the two roles really are.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:42:26 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States
saint72 wrote:
I like to thank everyone on this post for the information and words they have given it makes you think about what the two roles really are.


True, true... sounds pretty fucked up beyond all repair to me, too.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:16:19 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 535,086
So is this sort of lifestyle something that you explore, learn and develope with participation ? Is it something that can come naturally/ flow fluidly for certain folks without any prior experience as it pertains to the bdsm lifestyle?
Dani
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:53:34 PM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
MasterJonathan wrote:
It is not about who leads and who follows so much as it is the relationship where both get what they need. A Master is nothing but a man without a submissive to dominate, and a submissive is nothing but a needy girl without a Master to serve. It is the combination, the Yin and the Yang, that makes D/s. I mean it's right there in the term D/s!


If a sub is just a needy girl without a master, then wouldn't a subless master, by default, be just a needy man without a sub? I really am curious.



Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:34:24 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


If a sub is just a needy girl without a master, then wouldn't a subless master, by default, be just a needy man without a sub? I really am curious.


You're supposed to capitalize Master. Show some respect. Sounds like you have a lot to learn about the lifestyle.



Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:02:30 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


You're supposed to capitalize Master. Show some respect. Sounds like you have a lot to learn about the lifestyle.






Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:51:44 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:




Read a book, idiot. You have no clue what the lifestyle is all about.




Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:56:56 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Read a book, idiot. You have no clue what the lifestyle is all about.


I know. That's why I'm asking, idiot.



Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:03:56 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


I know. That's why I'm asking, idiot.


Please capatalize the I, in idiot. You're talking to a Master now.

Read a fucking book for Christ's sake and stop asking these asinine questions. It's disrespectful and it makes you look childish. You obviously don't have what it takes to live the lifestyle.



Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:13:14 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Please capatalize the I, in idiot. You're talking to a Master now.

Read a fucking book for Christ's sake and stop asking these asinine questions. It's disrespectful and it makes you look childish. You obviously don't have what it takes to live the lifestyle.


You're not MY master. And what the eff is with your obsession with reading books? Books aren't the only source of knowledge, payaso.

The only thing you're the master of is riding my dick. Now kindly dislodge yourself from it.





Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:22:33 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,909
Location: California
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


You're not MY master. And what the eff is with your obsession with reading books? Books aren't the only source of knowledge, payaso.

The only thing you're the master of is riding my dick. Now kindly dislodge yourself from it.



I'm speaking for the BDSM community and I really don't appreciate your tone and the amount of disrespect you're showing. You will never learn the lifestyle with this attitude. Again, read a book and inform yourself before you post here.

Fix your tone, read a book, and learn respect. Then maybe you can be one of my slaves. I think I'd like you dressed like one of those women from the movie, The Help.

Fix your attitude and I will guide your journey into the lifestyle.



Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:29:48 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


I'm speaking for the BDSM community and I really don't appreciate your tone and the amount of disrespect you're showing. You will never learn the lifestyle with this attitude. Again, read a book and inform yourself before you post here.

Fix your tone, read a book, and learn respect. Then maybe you can be one of my slaves. I think I'd like you dressed like one of those women from the movie, The Help.

Fix your attitude and I will guide your journey into the lifestyle.


I'm sorry. I didn't register anything you said. This Read a Book song was in my head the entire time.

Youtube it when you pull your head out of your ass.





Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

MasterJonathan
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:03:42 AM

Rank: Gentleman Master

Joined: 3/6/2013
Posts: 1,229
Location: God's Deep Freezer, United States
To answer your question slipperywhenwet, you are absolutely correct. A sub without a Master is a needy sub, and a Master without a sub is a needy Master. Each completes the other and each needs the other which is why the D/s relationship is such a beautiful thing.

There can be no darkness without light, and there can be no good without evil. By the same token, there can be no Master without a sub, nor sub without a Master. This is the Yin/Yang of D/s.

A Master is just a man without a submissive to dominate. Without My submissive I am merely Jonathan. It is her submission that makes Me who I am. And any dominant who thinks otherwise may be a dominant, but they will never be a true Master. The humility of knowing you are dependent on your submissive is one of the hallmarks of being a Master.

Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:35:25 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
MasterJonathan wrote:
To answer your question slipperywhenwet, you are absolutely correct. A sub without a Master is a needy sub, and a Master without a sub is a needy Master. Each completes the other and each needs the other which is why the D/s relationship is such a beautiful thing.

There can be no darkness without light, and there can be no good without evil. By the same token, there can be no Master without a sub, nor sub without a Master. This is the Yin/Yang of D/s.

A Master is just a man without a submissive to dominate. Without My submissive I am merely Jonathan. It is her submission that makes Me who I am. And any dominant who thinks otherwise may be a dominant, but they will never be a true Master. The humility of knowing you are dependent on your submissive is one of the hallmarks of being a Master.


So following this logic...a master without a sub is just a dominant? So is a submissive without a master not a submissive? What then would he/she be? Because although a master has no sub, they still remain a dominant. So would a submissive not be a submissive without a master?

I ask because I have friends here who are subs, and they say they are, even if they have no master. But you seem to be saying that a submissive, by definition, isn't a submissive unless he/she has a master.



Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

Ravyn
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:22:54 AM

Rank: Cock Connoisseur

Joined: 4/26/2010
Posts: 2,089
Location: Bend, United States
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


So following this logic...a master without a sub is just a dominant? So is a submissive without a master not a submissive? What then would he/she be? Because although a master has no sub, they still remain a dominant. So would a submissive not be a submissive without a master?

I ask because I have friends here who are subs, and they say they are, even if they have no master. But you seem to be saying that a submissive, by definition, isn't a submissive unless he/she has a master.


Sorry but I am going ot chime in here. I disagree with that statement (yes I know it isn't your statement Dani). I am first and foremost a woman, I am also a submissive woman without a Master, but that in no way makes me any less submissive. If one is truly submissive its a part of who they are, not just a role they play when the mood stikes (those types of subs/slaves yes, I would agree aren't submissive unless they have a Master). Just because I am without a Master, does not make me less submissive than if I had one to offer my submission to.

sprite
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:25:01 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,546
Location: My Tower, United States
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


So following this logic...a master without a sub is just a dominant? So is a submissive without a master not a submissive? What then would he/she be? Because although a master has no sub, they still remain a dominant. So would a submissive not be a submissive without a master?

I ask because I have friends here who are subs, and they say they are, even if they have no master. But you seem to be saying that a submissive, by definition, isn't a submissive unless he/she has a master.


if you are a submissive, it has nothing to do with having a Dom/me or not. you simply are. just as if you are a Dominant, you simply are - now, in order to be a Dom/me or Master/Mistress you need a sub/pet/slave/etc, and a sub without a Dom/me is only a sub, not a pet/slave/etc - does that help?

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:40:11 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,663
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
sprite wrote:


if you are a submissive, it has nothing to do with having a Dom/me or not. you simply are. just as if you are a Dominant, you simply are - now, in order to be a Dom/me or Master/Mistress you need a sub/pet/slave/etc, and a sub without a Dom/me is only a sub, not a pet/slave/etc - does that help?


It does, thanks for that. And thanks for your input too, Ravyn. It just throws me off because I'd at least like to have some understanding of this lifestyle even if I don't want to be a part of it. And I always come across the role of the sub being minimized, when it's just as important, I would think. I just always see more emphasis on the sub serving her master as a whole instead of the master serving his sub.



Baby put your arms around me, tell me I'm a problem...

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