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Guest
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:07:27 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
Hi I'm a new member just wanted to know if you may talk about characters under the age of 16 in your stories they are not the main characters or anything like that and don't perform sexual activities, but are nude cause they at a nudist resort with their family
Dani
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:41:23 AM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,070
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
No. There should be no mention of naked persons under the age of 16.


Full terms here.



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

Liz
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:44:00 AM

Rank: Scarlet Seductress

Joined: 1/22/2013
Posts: 3,939
Location: In the sweet shop, United Kingdom
Quote:
Children — No one under age 16 may be depicted in a sexual situation or in a sexual manner. This means participating in sexual activity (including body exploration and masturbation), witnessing it, making mention of it, hearing references to it, or being referred to in any sexual way whatsoever. No sexual arousal, inadvertent or otherwise, or sexual activity of any sort (groping, covert touching, sly attempts at it, etc.) is allowed while children are present. Any risk that children might witness sexual activity must be excluded. Children may be included as characters in a story only if all the above stipulations are met.


http://www.lushstories.com/forum/yaf_postst22383_An-A-to-Z-Guide-for-Lush-Stories-Authors.aspx


ManInNewHampshire
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 11:27:27 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/23/2013
Posts: 139
Location: Under the radar, United States
Common decency and morals! It is too bad it has to be re-in-forced.
Guest
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 11:19:40 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
Hang on, now I'm confused. Slipperywhenwet2012 says quote, "No. There should be no mention of naked persons under the age of 16."
Liz's reference to children contradicts that. Bottom line: "Children may be included as characters in a story only if all the above stipulations are met."
So then I read that as saying I can make reference to my daughter 14, My naked daughter stood before me. "What time are leaving Dad, I have to get dressed."
or words to that effect. No sexual reference here. I don't see that as improper, or violating the T&C. Comments please
Shylass
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:43:01 AM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,593
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
eroticascribe wrote:
Hang on, now I'm confused. Slipperywhenwet2012 says quote, "No. There should be no mention of naked persons under the age of 16."
Liz's reference to children contradicts that. Bottom line: "Children may be included as characters in a story only if all the above stipulations are met."
So then I read that as saying I can make reference to my daughter 14, My naked daughter stood before me. "What time are leaving Dad, I have to get dressed."
or words to that effect. No sexual reference here. I don't see that as improper, or violating the T&C. Comments please


This is a sex stories website. Authors need to use some common sense, too. People are generally wanting to read about nakedness in a sexual situation. Whilst you may think you can stick to the letter of the law and get away with it, you have to use a bit of sensibility, too.

I used to be a story verifier, and if that sentence crossed my path, I would have kicked your proverbial ass for it. The implications, not always the reality, are just as important. You might have written such a sentence in a supposedly innocent manner, but readers will not all see it that way. It is not only highly inappropriate with regards to the child on this particular site, but also in the context your example is using. Certain people are on the lookout for disgusting, criminal material, and Lush Stories will not be seen to be helping them out with finding it, however seemingly innocently and clinically written.

Current mods may disagree with me, but I strongly doubt it. Use your brain and sense of decency.



Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
Lisa
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:57:23 AM

Rank: Moderator

Joined: 3/3/2009
Posts: 5,112
Location: Victoria, Australia
eroticascribe wrote:
Hang on, now I'm confused. Slipperywhenwet2012 says quote, "No. There should be no mention of naked persons under the age of 16."
Liz's reference to children contradicts that. Bottom line: "Children may be included as characters in a story only if all the above stipulations are met."
So then I read that as saying I can make reference to my daughter 14, My naked daughter stood before me. "What time are leaving Dad, I have to get dressed."
or words to that effect. No sexual reference here. I don't see that as improper, or violating the T&C. Comments please


I agree with Shylass.

All you need to do in order for your story to pass is raise your character's age by two years. You might not be referring to her in a sexual way but since she won't be involved in the sexual part of the story and that particular moment doesn't progress the plot, it comes across as if the image is thrown in there to arouse, even if that's not your intention.
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:13:44 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Seriously, why does this keep coming up? No one under the age of 16 can be portrayed as being sexually active, aware or desirable by themselves or another party.

Doing so caters to pedophiles even if that was not the intent of the author, and opens the site and the author to the risk of being prosecuted by law enforcement officials that care little for the value of artistic liberties.

On a personal note, a well written erotic story is not enhanced by having a person be 14 rather than 16. That may just be my opinion, but take it from me as a reader of erotica. You gain nothing by pushing the age lower.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:44:40 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
Lolita is (in my opinion) a well-written erotic story containing a central character who is twelve years of age. I can buy it on Amazon and in almost any reputable bookshop. Bearing that in mind, I think it wise to avoid dubious law enforcement issues and avoid also watering down your point with references to artistic considerations. It's against the site's T & C and so that's it.

In my opinion (though it is worthless as I am powerless):
The word 'naked' could surely be taken from that sentence. If it can't then I would suspect some sexual implication or intention. It may (I haven't read the story, sorry. Yes, perhaps I should. Maybe I will...) foreshadow later events where nakedness is sexual and where the reader is reminded of this (seemingly/apparently) important moment between father and naked daughter.

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Dani
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:57:39 AM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,070
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Lolita is (in my opinion) a well-written erotic story containing a central character who is twelve years of age. I can buy it on Amazon and in almost any reputable bookshop. Bearing that in mind, I think it wise to avoid dubious law enforcement issues and avoid also watering down your point with references to artistic considerations. It's against the site's T & C and so that's it.

In my opinion (though it is worthless as I am powerless):
The word 'naked' could surely be taken from that sentence. If it can't then I would suspect some sexual implication or intention. It may (I haven't read the story, sorry. Yes, perhaps I should. Maybe I will...) foreshadow later events where nakedness is sexual and where the reader is reminded of this (seemingly/apparently) important moment between father and naked daughter.


True, but once that line is crossed, there is no going back. You approve one, and you have to approve them all.

And I don't think I speak ahead of myself when I say that this is not Lush's intended direction.



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:59:06 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
And can we lose the adverts in here please? It's like, 'This is my opinion, now would you like to buy my book?' Can't you say something without trying to simultaneously sell me something? Stealing someone else's clever words in order to bask in their reflected cleverness is surely bad enough... Should I have started another thread with this? Should I? Lol Perhaps I should. :)

I think it was Jesus who said, 'You debase yourselves and your opinions with this tawdry practice.' Or was it Margaret Thatcher?

By the way - I have a book out on Amazon. There's a link on my profile page but I thought more people might see this. (Damn! Yes, it is tempting though, isn't it?)

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:01:26 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Lolita is (in my opinion) a well-written erotic story containing a central character who is twelve years of age. I can buy it on Amazon and in almost any reputable bookshop. Bearing that in mind, I think it wise to avoid dubious law enforcement issues and avoid also watering down your point with references to artistic considerations. It's against the site's T & C and so that's it.

In my opinion (though it is worthless as I am powerless):
The word 'naked' could surely be taken from that sentence. If it can't then I would suspect some sexual implication or intention. It may (I haven't read the story, sorry. Yes, perhaps I should. Maybe I will...) foreshadow later events where nakedness is sexual and where the reader is reminded of this (seemingly/apparently) important moment between father and naked daughter.


Lolita is a work of art, but even Nobokov himself couldn't get it on Lush. It's still against the rules. To be fair, I haven't read the Op's story either, but as a mod if I passed it, I'd get fired. Simple as that really.

I really do understand that writer's, like any artists, tend to resent having to conform to someone else's rules. I deeply respect that and often share the feeling in regards to certain other rules. (As a disclaimer, I tend to be seriously creeped out by most under age stories)

That said, I also respect a persons home when I'm in it, and this home is owned by someone who doesn't wish to be associated with certain types of stories. How can we demand our rights be respected and then curse her for wanting hers to be? I believe in Lush and what it stands for. For that, I'll defend her right to run it her way.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Dani
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:02:23 AM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,070
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
And can we lose the adverts in here please?


The adverts are a part of the forum signature. It doesn't change from post to post...

Alexandra_A wrote:
By the way - I have a book out on Amazon. There's a link on my profile page but I thought more people might see this. (Damn! Yes, it is tempting though, isn't it?)


...and with that being said, this would make an excellent addition to your forum signature. It follows every post you make. That way, you won't have to give it a second thought when the temptation to promote your book creeps up on you. thumbup



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:42:15 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
Yes, sorry, I understand the signature thingy. I should been more precise: can we lose the adverts from the forum signatures, please? It's tacky, desperate and sad, and, to me, undermines what the person has to say. How can one speak seriously, earnestly and with gravitas and then underline it with a banner to sell some porn one has written? Even here, on a sex story site, it is surely bad taste? Just my opinion.

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:47:40 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Yes, sorry, I understand the signature thingy. I should been more precise: can we lose the adverts from the forum signatures, please? It's tacky, desperate and sad, and, to me, undermines what the person has to say. How can one speak seriously, earnestly and with gravitas and then underline it with a banner to sell some porn one has written? Even here, on a sex story site, it is surely bad taste? Just my opinion.


It's a reasonable opinion. I do believe you were right when you suggested it should be handled in another thread though. One other point, as these books are published by Lush Publishing and it is part of the site's buisness model, I tend to believe that Nicola considers it to be an advantageous use of the forums. That's just my opinion though.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:50:38 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
Milik said:
"That said, I also respect a persons home when I'm in it, and this home is owned by someone who doesn't wish to be associated with certain types of stories. How can we demand our rights be respected and then curse her for wanting hers to be? I believe in Lush and what it stands for. For that, I'll defend her right to run it her way."

It isn't even about respect. It's about ownership. The owner dictates what the owner wants. It's their space, their time, their money, and their intellectual property. You, as moderators, do as you are told or you are fired (just out of interest, do you get paid or is it an honorary post?), and we, as contributors, follow the rule of law. I'm not being controversial here, merely stating a very reasonable fact. If the rules are don't get on the bus whilst chewing gum, don't be surprised if you are thrown off for doing so; whether the rule is reasonable or not is not for us to decide: we didn't buy the bus.

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:53:15 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
Re business model: I didn't know that, didn't realise these were Lush publications, imagined the authors were publicising themselves. If, as you say, they play no part in the 'tackiness', no blame should be placed at their door. :)

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:56:53 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Milik said:
"That said, I also respect a persons home when I'm in it, and this home is owned by someone who doesn't wish to be associated with certain types of stories. How can we demand our rights be respected and then curse her for wanting hers to be? I believe in Lush and what it stands for. For that, I'll defend her right to run it her way."

It isn't even about respect. It's about ownership. The owner dictates what the owner wants. It's their space, their time, their money, and their intellectual property. You, as moderators, do as you are told or you are fired (just out of interest, do you get paid or is it an honorary post?), and we, as contributors, follow the rule of law. I'm not being controversial here, merely stating a very reasonable fact. If the rules are don't get on the bus whilst chewing gum, don't be surprised if you are thrown off for doing so; whether the rule is reasonable or not is not for us to decide: we didn't buy the bus.


I agree, this is a good way to look at it, and I for one don't believe you are being controversial at all. Oh, and for the record we do not get paid at all. We volunteer because we want to give back to a site that has allowed us to grow in our own way. I do it proudly, even if it does take a great deal of time.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:02:10 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Re business model: I didn't know that, didn't realise these were Lush publications, imagined the authors were publicising themselves. If, as you say, they play no part in the 'tackiness', no blame should be placed at their door. :)


Yes, the site does actually forbid the use of its forums, profiles and stories to be used as a link to third party advertisements. Such links are removed as they are discovered and repeat offenders could be suspended or even have their accounts deleted. See the red dot with LP in it? That signifies it was a Lush Publication.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:03:23 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
Mr Milik, your measured response, as usual, does you great justice.

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Guest
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:06:12 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
Thanks for the comments. I sure opened a can of worms here. I asked (and used an example), because I read (here), two conflicting examples from slipperywhenwet and Liz. I have never used, here or anywhere else, any reference to children or child nudity, but as there were differing opinions, I wanted to know, and am entitled to know, as I'm a member and must abide by the T&C, what the situation was with those opinions. I thank you all for clearing that up. And shylass, thanks for your opinion, but I didn't need a spray!
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:10:23 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
eroticascribe wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I sure opened a can of worms here. I asked (and used an example), because I read (here), two conflicting examples from slipperywhenwet and Liz. I have never used, here or anywhere else, any reference to children or child nudity, but as there were differing opinions, I wanted to know, and am entitled to know, as I'm a member and must abide by the T&C, what the situation was with those opinions. I thank you all for clearing that up. And shylass, thanks for your opinion, but I didn't need a spray!


Not to worry. I'm glad we could help clear that up. Good to have you here.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:12:04 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
Mr Milik, your measured response, as usual, does you great justice.


Thank you. I am glad I could help in some small way.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Alexandra_A
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:21:17 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/25/2013
Posts: 38
And I love the 'Nobokov'! It slipped by me on first reading. I like your style!

"If I sign off with pithy quotations, ignore all preceding opinion for I am undoubtedly a fool. And if, after our discourse, I abuse you by proffering my vulgar produce, cast me into the gutter."
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:25:15 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
Alexandra_A wrote:
And I love the 'Nobokov'! It slipped by me on first reading. I like your style!

Regaeman Man it seemed apropos...

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Guest
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:06:49 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
Hi Milik_The_Red. Thanks for the email. I hope that clarifies my situation and stand on this subject. If I can't ask a question and get an answer, without my question being misinterpreted, and finger pointing accusation, then I'm in the wrong place. And before everyone starts jumping up and down and saying they weren't accusing me, then sorry, that is my misinterpretation, because that's the way some of it came across, and if it's incorrect, I humbly apologise.
liz and slipperywhenwet, I apologise to you both for involving you in this.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 7:56:23 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
I find this thread very interesting. People are talking about how it’s ok to have a character under the age of 16 if there is no sexual activity. I find this not to be true. I submitted a story that started with the characters youth as it was important to the story. There was nothing even remotely sexual until they were of age. In fact, it was published on a site that has a stricter age limit of 18. Lush rejected the story for mentioning people under the age of 16. Even when I pointed out that there was nothing at all sexual it was still rejected. So what is the true rule?
Guest
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:32:38 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 473,817
Mack_G wrote:
I find this thread very interesting. People are talking about how it’s ok to have a character under the age of 16 if there is no sexual activity. I find this not to be true. I submitted a story that started with the characters youth as it was important to the story. There was nothing even remotely sexual until they were of age. In fact, it was published on a site that has a stricter age limit of 18. Lush rejected the story for mentioning people under the age of 16. Even when I pointed out that there was nothing at all sexual it was still rejected. So what is the true rule?


Mentions of arousal, thoughts of wanting someone under 16 or being under 16 at the time are not allowed. Stories where people are "waiting" for that person to turn 16 are a no-no because it meant that they wanted them before they were 16. Staring in a sexual way or being stared at by someone under 16 isn't allowed. Anything even hinting at anything sexual involving someone under 16 isn't allowed for all the reasons already stated. Simply making the character 16 or over can avoid these issues.
Shylass
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 11:52:23 AM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,593
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
eroticascribe wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I sure opened a can of worms here. I asked (and used an example), because I read (here), two conflicting examples from slipperywhenwet and Liz. I have never used, here or anywhere else, any reference to children or child nudity, but as there were differing opinions, I wanted to know, and am entitled to know, as I'm a member and must abide by the T&C, what the situation was with those opinions. I thank you all for clearing that up. And shylass, thanks for your opinion, but I didn't need a spray!


I said "if", and I meant "you" in the same way that you used an example using the word "I". There was no "spray" intended, and it is a pity that you feel I was being personal. I wasn't.

I make no apology for my force of post. I have my own personal reasons for having strong opinions on this matter. It's a shame that you feel I was having a go. I wasn't.



Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:33:42 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,801
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
one_winged_angel wrote:


Mentions of arousal, thoughts of wanting someone under 16 or being under 16 at the time are not allowed. Stories where people are "waiting" for that person to turn 16 are a no-no because it meant that they wanted them before they were 16. Staring in a sexual way or being stared at by someone under 16 isn't allowed. Anything even hinting at anything sexual involving someone under 16 isn't allowed for all the reasons already stated. Simply making the character 16 or over can avoid these issues. .


This. Without knowing what story you are referring to Mark, it is just guessing, but all it takes is one comment or thought that portrays the youth as anything but a child. I admit the mods are hyper sensitive here and we are for the reasons stated above. Basically if the child is even remotely aware or desirable in any way at all, it will get bounced.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
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