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Jack_42
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 2:17:31 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
US politics seem a total mystery to me and sometimes somewhat contradictory as I get the impression the idea is freedom yet phrases like liberal, communist, socialist are bandied about as though they are some sort of disease and not just a point of view (one of my US friends tells me even the idea of a pension is considered very left wing). In the UK it's simple. There are the haves and the have nots and the haves keep trying to stop the have nots having any and the the have nots keep trying to get more and keep what they've got. Therefore we end up with an uneasy compromise between the two polarities. I'm with Samuel Johnson on this one only I would extend it to mean all of them.
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:13:29 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
Jack_42 wrote:
US politics seem a total mystery to me and sometimes somewhat contradictory as I get the impression the idea is freedom yet phrases like liberal, communist, socialist are bandied about as though they are some sort of disease and not just a point of view (one of my US friends tells me even the idea of a pension is considered very left wing). In the UK it's simple. There are the haves and the have nots and the haves keep trying to stop the have nots having any and the the have nots keep trying to get more and keep what they've got. Therefore we end up with an uneasy compromise between the two polarities. I'm with Samuel Johnson on this one only I would extend it to mean all of them.


You hit it on the head. In the U.S. the haves are those with the money, the power and a survival of the fittest ideology - Republican's - conservatives -right wing. They legislate control i.e. all the attempts, successful or not, to regulate the woman's body, keeping the woman subservient by paying her less just because she doesn't have a dick. The irony of it all is they use God and the Bible as the basis of their suppression when the oath they take is an oath to the Constitution WHICH SEPARATES CHURCH AND STATE.

The powers that be with the have-not's have money and power as well but are a bit more realistic in understanding that while the rich and powerful take the wealth the poor still need to survive in a civil society. So, the liberals, or progressive as they are called today, have come up with social programs like welfare. The right complains about giving welfare to poor while they give their powerful corporations ungodly tax breaks and block attempts to cut off this corporate handout. The left gave the unemployed a program to compensate for hard times. The right fought against it. The left gave veterans benefits to better themselves with college education. The right fought tooth and nail against it calling it 'welfare'. I could go on and on and on.

While the left ain't perfect...I'll side with those who stand with the less powerful. The only way to win against a survival of the fittest mentality is to do by the masses.
MadMartigan
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:37:58 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 6/17/2013
Posts: 2,123
Location: United States
Kristind wrote:


You hit it on the head. In the U.S. the haves are those with the money, the power and a survival of the fittest ideology - Republican's - conservatives -right wing. They legislate control i.e. all the attempts, successful or not, to regulate the woman's body, keeping the woman subservient by paying her less just because she doesn't have a dick. The irony of it all is they use God and the Bible as the basis of their suppression when the oath they take is an oath to the Constitution WHICH SEPARATES CHURCH AND STATE.

The powers that be with the have-not's have money and power as well but are a bit more realistic in understanding that while the rich and powerful take the wealth the poor still need to survive in a civil society. So, the liberals, or progressive as they are called today, have come up with social programs like welfare. The right complains about giving welfare to poor while they give their powerful corporations ungodly tax breaks and block attempts to cut off this corporate handout. The left gave the unemployed a program to compensate for hard times. The right fought against it. The left gave veterans benefits to better themselves with college education. The right fought tooth and nail against it calling it 'welfare'. I could go on and on and on.

While the left ain't perfect...I'll side with those who stand with the less powerful. The only way to win against a survival of the fittest mentality is to do by the masses.


I could kiss you! And I am a bloody St. Louis Rams fan! Sword Fight

Well stated.

Anyone who thinks taking out this particular VRA provision is a good thing, just isn't paying attention. In my opinion, reconstruction of the South didn't last NEARLY long enough. The institutions of racism, fear mongering, intolerance, and infringement upon rights is still alive and well there. Living in South Carolina for two years as a kid was hell on earth.

The voter ID laws are nonsense. Just another way to disenfranchise the poor and make them less likely to show up to the polls. If you think they are combating some made up "voter fraud" I don't know where you get your news from. Voter fraud in the US, unless you count Florida in Bush vs. Gore, has hardly ever been an issue in the history of the US.

You shouldn't need another form of ID to vote. Particularly one you have to pay for or go through a long drawn up process to get.

What's happening already in North Carolina is disturbing. Proposals of no early voting, no sunday voting, and no same day voter registration is a ploy plain and simple. Prevent a large swath of people from voting. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing I hope this does is further make neocons (let's face it, the true idea of "conservatism" and "republicanism" died out when Ike passed away) unelectable for the presidency for the foreseeable future and hopefully the senate and house as well.
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 8:50:42 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
I can't vote in any other country regardless if it a free one or not as I am not a citizen of those countries and they are in their right not to let me. Our elections are not fair, corruption and stuffing the ballot box goes all the way back to the beginning (I live in CA and I know of at least five districts that are rigged). All 50 states (V.P. take note) should be set up by adjoining county population for Congress and not all over the board so one party in power can stay in power. (Calif. has a law for a committee of judges - still not perfect and our Gov. Space Caddy Brown is againt it, but it is a start in correcting the old Gov. of N.J. who began the gerry type of districts.)

As far as showing I.D. when going to the polls, it takes less time than showing it to cash a check and those people who claim that miniorities and the poor are too stupid to get I.D.'s are racists pigs. It doesn't matter what race you are or what sex or how rich, you have the smarts to get an I.D. When you go to the poll they ask for your name so they can mark you off. Show your I.D. (every state gives out I.D. at their DMV even for those who do not drive) and zap you go and vote. No ACORN dead or cartoon animals to violate our civil rights. When polls were in local homes and garages the people there knew most of their neighbors and were able to catch cheaters, but now with the machines, that don't really work most of the time, anyone can walk in and demand to vote.

What you have to ask is the U. S. Constitution a world document like the one the Nazi's and Commies use telling their imperalist purpose of bringing the world under their rule or is it an American document for the citizens of the United States? If it is for world use than don't cry when we go and fight some two bit dictator to free the people. But if it is for our nation only then don't cry because we have borders and demand that only citizens can vote.

All so all votes in a National Election (every two years) should not be counted till the last poll closes. This would be in the far Pacific. I have gone to the poll and heard the news say the election is over before I get to vote. The east coast decides and the rest of the country doesn't matter.

So all 50 states (N. J., Nev., Alaska, CA, Mass are not on the list of states, yet they are worst than the states that are) should be held to the strictest accords for providing honest elections. The only reason politicans are trying to get people who are not citizens to vote is because there is no way they can be elected any other way. So they have to cheat to stay in power.

Our next stop is having the U. N. come in and have armed soliders monitoring our polling places. With the people we have in power now we may find ourselves demanding that.
Monocle
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:33:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
Voter ID is not about smarts. It's about difficulty of access. "Just go to the DMV" is really not that simple for people who work during DMV hours, or live far from one without their own transportation, or a variety of other factors, all weighing more heavily on the poor and the less mobile.

ScottFord wrote:

The only reason politicans are trying to get people who are not citizens to vote is because there is no way they can be elected any other way.

This is pure bullshit. No politician is "trying to get people who are not citizens to vote".


Quote:
Our next stop is having the U. N. come in and have armed soliders monitoring our polling places.

More pure conspiracist bullshit.
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:38:40 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
One of the big arguments for more gun control laws (which won't work, but...) is that it's far too easy for anybody to buy a gun. Liberal talking heads like to heavily imply (if not outright say) that criminals and children and psychopaths can easily walk into any old store and walk out with a machine gun. Those same talking heads also like to say that voting is far too difficult. They make racist statements, like Scottford said, that poor minorities are disenfranchised. Apparently, it's too difficult for a black man to vote because he's afraid the people at the polls will be racist, or a Latino won't be able to vote because he's too busy picking onions in a field all day.

That's all BULLSHIT. The only thing we've seen from the last presidential election was massive voter fraud in favor of liberals! A voting machine from a conservative district being found in the trunk of a Democrat politician's car days after polling closed? Reports from all over about people mailing in multiple ballots! People admitting on television that they voted multiple times at different places!

So, I think I have a solution. If it's incredibly easy to buy a gun, and incredibly difficult to vote, then we need meet in the middle as a nation of responsible voters and freedom loving people.

Make it equally difficult to buy a gun and to vote! Require all the same tasks! Does it take a photo ID to buy a gun? Require one to vote! Can't get to your gun store because it's too far? Call up a local action group and they'll drive you there and back! Just like they did for that old woman who needed a ride to her polling location!

For anyone out there who has a problem with this plan, please tell me why in a logical, well thought out manner.
Monocle
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:52:37 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
SeaCreature wrote:
One of the big arguments for more gun control laws (which won't work, but...) is that it's far too easy for anybody to buy a gun. Liberal talking heads like to heavily imply (if not outright say) that criminals and children and psychopaths can easily walk into any old store and walk out with a machine gun. Those same talking heads also like to say that voting is far too difficult. They make racist statements, like Scottford said, that poor minorities are disenfranchised. Apparently, it's too difficult for a black man to vote because he's afraid the people at the polls will be racist, or a Latino won't be able to vote because he's too busy picking onions in a field all day.

That's all BULLSHIT.


Yes. Every single strawman claim you've put up there is bullshit.



Quote:
The only thing we've seen from the last presidential election was massive voter fraud in favor of liberals!

Laughable. Show me.

Quote:
For anyone out there who has a problem with this plan, please tell me why in a logical, well thought out manner.


You can't accidentally - or on purpose - kill someone with a vote.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:55:29 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,301
Location: Cakeland, United States
Kristind wrote:


Well...I do agree with you that MSNBC is as politically biased as Faux News...but they are so much more honest in their facts, their reporting and their willingness to correct an error on the air. However Buz, when the federal government moves in on one state, as the feds have done to Texas for awhile now, it is because they have a bad history of corrupt politics in that area which they are being scrutinized. It is a fact and not political rhetoric that the federal govt. has ordered this done to Texas because...of the fact that Texas has been consistently corrupt in their election practice. That is not an MSNBC fabrication nor is it an MSNBC opinion.


Redistricting is practically a cottage industry in Texas, thanks to Dick Armey and Tom 'The Hammer' Delay...who, was fortunately tarred & feathered by members of his own GOP and road out of town on a rail, several years ago.

That's the nice thing about the Republican party... they always tend to cannibalize their own worst assholes. Gingrich, The Hammer, Palin. I wish they'd get around to boiling Cheney in oil, already.


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
beowulf69
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 10:02:09 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/24/2011
Posts: 206
Location: Cocoa Beach, United States
pee
Monocle wrote:
More pure conspiracist bullshit.


bs spam1 blah5

My first story for Lush is posted, The Goodbye Fuck.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/the-goodbye-fuck.aspx
Monocle
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 10:05:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
beowulf69 wrote:
pee


bs spam1 blah5


You are the soul of wit.
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2013 11:23:34 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
Monocle wrote:


You can't accidentally - or on purpose - kill someone with a vote.


A group of six people are at this very moment educating themselves on whether a man deserves to live or die based on their votes in a legal setting. A single vote may decide his fate.

Congressmen have cast votes that have decided on the fates of young men and women in our military, many of whom have died when they could have lived had some people voted differently. Many people in foreign nations have also be condemned to died based on the votes of politicians. A bomb doesn't just get dropped on a village in the desert by our military, our soldiers are there because other people voted to put them there. Had those same people voted differently, that bomb would not have been dropped on that village.

Regardless of the actual manner of death, be it poison or the sword or a noose or any other, many millions of people in the past and present have died and will continue to die BECAUSE of other people voting.

Remember also that the worst dictators, the ones who have slaughtered tens of millions in the past couple generations were put into power by the vote.

Now, I'm guessing that you are anti-gun. So, think of it this way. As difficult as you think it should be to get a gun, just make it that difficult as well to cast a vote.
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:41:38 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Kristind wrote:


You hit it on the head. In the U.S. the haves are those with the money, the power and a survival of the fittest ideology - Republican's - conservatives -right wing. They legislate control i.e. all the attempts, successful or not, to regulate the woman's body, keeping the woman subservient by paying her less just because she doesn't have a dick. The irony of it all is they use God and the Bible as the basis of their suppression when the oath they take is an oath to the Constitution WHICH SEPARATES CHURCH AND STATE.

The powers that be with the have-not's have money and power as well but are a bit more realistic in understanding that while the rich and powerful take the wealth the poor still need to survive in a civil society. So, the liberals, or progressive as they are called today, have come up with social programs like welfare. The right complains about giving welfare to poor while they give their powerful corporations ungodly tax breaks and block attempts to cut off this corporate handout. The left gave the unemployed a program to compensate for hard times. The right fought against it. The left gave veterans benefits to better themselves with college education. The right fought tooth and nail against it calling it 'welfare'. I could go on and on and on.

While the left ain't perfect...I'll side with those who stand with the less powerful. The only way to win against a survival of the fittest mentality is to do by the masses.


Yes I can see how they keep the power and that's disgusting about women (I want the next President to be a Mexican descended, lesbian, handicapped aetheist, which sounds like real equality to me) as for the religious issue. Well once the British established that god is British (we have songs about this and the Queen is head of the Church and State) it became an establishment means of control but apart from lavender scented little old lades who formed sewing clubs or made naked pinup calenders we all stopped going to church regularly and made bingo halls out of them so they sort of lost that angle - must have really upset Henry VIII. They did only educate the masses so that they could operate the more sophisticated services that were coming in in the late 1800's but that was a double edged sword most of us can now read and apart from those who peruse The Sun are fairly well informed and have developed a sort of romantic cynic outlook. Therefore the in-house machinations of politicians are ignored we only get annoyed when they rattle sabres or have some crazy scheme going on like leaving Europe or ban fox hunting (Oscar Wilde expressed that issue very well).
ArtMan
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 6:56:28 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 640
Location: South Florida, United States
Monocle wrote:
Incidence of voter fraud today is negligible and of negligible impact.


Only a propagandist would say such bullshit. You're a far left wing narrow minded extremist radical.

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

Monocle
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:00:32 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
SeaCreature wrote:

A group of six people are at this very moment educating themselves on whether a man deserves to live or die based on their votes in a legal setting. A single vote may decide his fate.


Are you talking about a jury or panel of judges? An entirely different set of qualifications are required to earn _that_ kind of vote. Strawman 1.

Quote:
Congressmen have cast votes that have decided on the fates of young men and women in our military, many of whom have died when they could have lived had some people voted differently.

Congressmen have stricter requirements to get elected than a citizen needs to vote. For a reason. Strawman 2.

Quote:
Remember also that the worst dictators, the ones who have slaughtered tens of millions in the past couple generations were put into power by the vote.


False.
Hitler was appointed by Hindenburg after the Nazis won less than 40% of the vote in two elections.
Stalin seized power
Pot was not elected
Mao Zedong was elected within the committee, not by the people.
To name 4.

Quote:
Now, I'm guessing that you are anti-gun. So, think of it this way. As difficult as you think it should be to get a gun, just make it that difficult as well to cast a vote.


Guess again. I'm pro gun regulation, not anti-gun. I know how hard that concept is for some folks to understand.

Voting is a right and responsibility in American society, and it should be as easy as possible for citizens to exercise that right - even if they might vote against you.
Monocle
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:05:42 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
ArtMan wrote:

Only a propagandist would say such bullshit. You're a far left wing narrow minded extremist radical.


You've brought nothing. No citations. No evidence. No police or court records. No convictions. Just ad hominem and empty words. Laughable.

Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:31:37 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
ArtMan wrote:


Only a propagandist would say such bullshit. You're a far left wing narrow minded extremist radical.


Monacle nailed this one. No facts...just crap from ArtMan. If you're going to waste your time in any debate please at least try to give us intelligent conversation with more than verbal burps and farts. Otherwise you come off as nothing more than a bullshit propagandist. Bill O'Reilly (uggh...I can't believe I used that despicable man's name in one of my blogs) would even call your unsubstantiated opinion pin-headed.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:52:28 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
Monocle wrote:


Guess again. I'm pro gun regulation, not anti-gun. I know how hard that concept is for some folks to understand.

Voting is a right and responsibility in American society, and it should be as easy as possible for citizens to exercise that right - even if they might vote against you.


First...I applaud you. Gun Rights activists do not understand that one can be pro gun and also pro gun regulation i.e. closing the few loopholes that are left in the system. 70% to 75% of the NRA members agree with that but the radical "Oh Christ they're taking my 2nd Amendment rights away!" win the argument by stirring absolutely warmed-over stinky squishy liquid crap over the issue.

I have to disagree with your statement about voting. Voting is not a right. It is not treated as a right. It is only a "privilege". Keeping it a privilege is how the two sides can continue to mess with it. Which is why I believe it should be federally mandated and federally controlled in just the way the feds slapped Texan attempts to corrupt it.
Monocle
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 9:30:47 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
Kristind wrote:

I have to disagree with your statement about voting. Voting is not a right. It is not treated as a right. It is only a "privilege". Keeping it a privilege is how the two sides can continue to mess with it. Which is why I believe it should be federally mandated and federally controlled in just the way the feds slapped Texan attempts to corrupt it.


I think you have a strong point. I probably need to revise my language.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:03:18 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,301
Location: Cakeland, United States
SeaCreature wrote:
Remember also that the worst dictators, the ones who have slaughtered tens of millions in the past couple generations were put into power by the vote.


Monocle wrote:

False.
Hitler was appointed by Hindenburg after the Nazis won less than 40% of the vote in two elections.
Stalin seized power
Pot was not elected
Mao Zedong was elected within the committee, not by the people.
To name 4.


Richard Nixon. Ugh

Ronald Raygun was 'elected' only after George HW Bush and the CIA arranged with the Ayatollah Khomeini - to keep holding the 52 Americans hostage through the 1980 election season.

George HW Bush was perhaps the most treacherous US President we've ever suffered through in his short 4 year reign. Votes put him in office.

Bill Clinton enjoyed a robust economy - which caused people to look the other way while he drove Iraq into the prehistoric ages with economic policies that only harmed the citizenry of Iraq and didn't fuck with Saddam Hussein, one bit. The Kosovo excursion wasn't something to be forgotten about either.

George W Bush was installed as the pResident of the most militarily powerful nation on the planet and he then proceeded to murder millions with his zealous abuse of the US military machine in both Afghanistan and Iraq, simultaneously.

Come'on Monocle... you're smarter than this.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:07:48 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,301
Location: Cakeland, United States
SeaCreature wrote:
Remember also that the worst dictators, the ones who have slaughtered tens of millions in the past couple generations were put into power by the vote.


Monocle wrote:

False.
Hitler was appointed by Hindenburg after the Nazis won less than 40% of the vote in two elections.
Stalin seized power
Pot was not elected
Mao Zedong was elected within the committee, not by the people.
To name 4.


Richard Nixon. Ugh

Ronald Raygun was 'elected' only after George HW Bush and the CIA arranged with the Ayatollah Khomeini - to keep holding the 52 Americans hostage through the 1980 election season.

George HW Bush was perhaps the most treacherous US President we've ever suffered through in his short 4 year reign. Votes put him in office.

Bill Clinton enjoyed a robust economy - which caused people to look the other way while he drove Iraq into the prehistoric ages with economic policies that only harmed the citizenry of Iraq and didn't fuck with Saddam Hussein, one bit. The Kosovo excursion wasn't something to be forgotten about either.

George W Bush was installed as the pResident of the most militarily powerful nation on the planet and he then proceeded to murder millions with his zealous abuse of the US military machine in both Afghanistan and Iraq, simultaneously.

Come'on Monocle... you're smarter than this.

** Now we've got Obama trying to outdo George W Bush as the most confounding, treacherous, dangerous to all life on the planet President the world has known. And only because the other guy last year - Romney - was even worse of a choice to have wielding this much influence and power.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:16:08 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
WellMadeMale wrote:


Richard Nixon. Ugh

Ronald Raygun was 'elected' only after George HW Bush and the CIA arranged with the Ayatollah Khomeini - to keep holding the 52 Americans hostage through the 1980 election season.

George HW Bush was perhaps the most treacherous US President we've ever suffered through in his short 4 year reign. Votes put him in office.

Bill Clinton enjoyed a robust economy - which caused people to look the other way while he drove Iraq into the prehistoric ages with economic policies that only harmed the citizenry of Iraq and didn't fuck with Saddam Hussein, one bit. The Kosovo excursion wasn't something to be forgotten about either.

George W Bush was installed as the pResident of the most militarily powerful nation on the planet and he then proceeded to murder millions with his zealous abuse of the US military machine in both Afghanistan and Iraq, simultaneously.

Come'on Monocle... you're smarter than this.

** Now we've got Obama trying to outdo George W Bush as the most confounding, treacherous, dangerous to all life on the planet President the world has known. And only because the other guy last year - Romney - was even worse of a choice to have wielding this much influence and power.


While I pretty much agree of your assessment of our Presidents (what I disagree with is for another thread, maybe) the key word you are overlooking WMM is DICTATORS. You know as well as anyone that these people you cite are Presidents voted in by the people. C'mon WMM - you' really are better than this but thanks for your My 2 cents
Monocle
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:21:28 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
WellMadeMale wrote:



Come'on Monocle... you're smarter than this.


Re: the listed 6 presidents, I'm smart enough to know that no matter how bad they were none of them was a dictator. That was the statement I was responding to. I will quibble with you about some of their records and perhaps some their paths to power, but they were elected and served the US system of checks and balances however ailing it has become. To liken any of the last 45 years of American presidents to dictatorships is to grossly misunderstand either our form of government or the definition of dictatorship, or both.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:28:44 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,301
Location: Cakeland, United States
Monocle wrote:


Re: the listed 6 presidents, I'm smart enough to know that no matter how bad they were none of them was a dictator. That was the statement I was responding to. I will quibble with you about some of their records and perhaps some their paths to power, but they were elected and served the US system of checks and balances however ailing it has become. To liken any of the last 45 years of American presidents to dictatorships is to grossly misunderstand either our form of government or the definition of dictatorship, or both.



Ladies and gentlemen... Just because you and your family weren't being dictated TO by any of those mentioned US Presidents - does not by itself mean that none of those motherfuckers weren't in the dictating business.

And they were quite adept with it. It's pretty damned easy to do when you are in control of the most powerful military in the world for the last 50 years.

Ask the Bosnians, the Iraqis, the Afghan people, the Vietnamese, etc... Ask any Panamanian about how they felt in 1989 - about the Land of the Free.

You are helping to make the rest of us Americans look pretty selfish and totalitarian to the rest of our brothers and sisters on this globe.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Monocle
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:46:25 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 301
WellMadeMale wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen... Just because you and your family weren't being dictated TO by any of those mentioned US Presidents - does not by itself mean that none of those motherfuckers weren't in the dictating business.


Sorry, I've not been a fan of a lot of US foreign policy these last couple decades, but your claims are simply untrue. The US has pursued its agenda in lots of hamhanded and several very stupid and destructive ways. It is arguably imperialist, and occasionally bullying. But it is not a dictatorship by any stretch of the word.

Quote:
You are helping to make the rest of us Americans look pretty selfish and totalitarian to the rest of our brothers and sisters on this globe.


Bull. Playing fast and loose with language and labels makes us look stupid.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:52:09 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
WellMadeMale wrote:


Ladies and gentlemen... Just because you and your family weren't being dictated TO by any of those mentioned US Presidents - does not by itself mean that none of those motherfuckers weren't in the dictating business.

And they were quite adept with it. It's pretty damned easy to do when you are in control of the most powerful military in the world for the last 50 years.

Ask the Bosnians, the Iraqis, the Afghan people, the Vietnamese, etc... Ask any Panamanian about how they felt in 1989 - about the Land of the Free.

You are helping to make the rest of us Americans look pretty selfish and totalitarian to the rest of our brothers and sisters on this globe.


So, let me get this straight so that I understand you. These Presidents didn't dictate to us or our families but they were were dictators to the Bosnians, Iraqi's, Afgans, Vietnamese...etc. These Presidents were not their President. Therefore, they could not and do not fall anywhere close to the meaning of the word. But you're talking semantics here, methinks, so...I get it...methinks. Still a rather large stretch. Hmmm...gotta have some more coffee and think over this one.
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 11:29:39 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Am I being naive here again but voting is carried out in the UK by something called the Electoral Role? We each receive notification through the post as as to where and when to vote each person gets only 1 letter and once at the polling station their name is already there to be noted and ticked off once they quote their name (they don't even need the letter with them) so it would be impossible to vote more than once unless they had several names and addresses. Also politicians (the seedy little devils) aren't allowed near the ballot boxes except as a voter. Surely if the fumbling British can come up with a fairly foolproof system then the richest and most free nation in the world can too? Or am I just misunderstanding the US procedure?
ArtMan
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:43:18 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 640
Location: South Florida, United States
Monocle wrote:


You've brought nothing. No citations. No evidence. No police or court records. No convictions. Just ad hominem and empty words. Laughable.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/17/vote-fraud-alert-one-out-of-five-registered-ohio-voters-is-bogus/

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

http://www.news4jax.com/news/fema-official-charged-in-voter-fraud-case/-/475880/20574780/-/hco5k6/-/index.html

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/09/Nevada-Acorn-Conviction-Upheld

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/democratic-officials-and-activists-linked-to-acorn-plead-guilty-in-voter-fraud-case/

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/democratic-officials-and-activists-linked-to-acorn-plead-guilty-in-voter-fraud-case/

http://www.wnd.com/2011/10/355461/

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/08/wisconsin-ag-charges-five-with-election-fraud-two-from-acorn/

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2003806904_webvotefraud26m.html

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/is-there-voter-fraud/question-2859149/?link=ibaf&q=acorn+voter+fraud+cases

http://azpundit.com/judge-slaps-acorn-with-maximum-fine-for-voter-fraud-during-2008-election/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/roxanne-rubin_n_2566297.html

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2498961563001/democratic-officials-arrested-for-voter-fraud-in-indiana/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/florida-voting-election-arrests_n_1213900.html

http://www.wtok.com/home/headlines/8860917.html

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/More-Voter-Fraud-Arrests-Possible-In-Iowa-180512541.html

http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/article/id/80329/

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/19/14556980-gop-registration-worker-charged-with-voter-fraud?lite

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/19/14556980-gop-registration-worker-charged-with-voter-fraud?lite

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b22_1288232369

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov/02/southern-nevada-woman-arrested-suspicion-trying-vo/#axzz2YIPAooNA

http://www.timesdispatch.com/archive/state-voter-fraud-investigation-results-in-two-more-arrests-in/article_ef0592e0-3e15-55bd-ae70-48de3c473ded.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/20/local/me-fraud20

http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=92957

http://screen.yahoo.com/democratic-officials-arrested-voter-fraud-213949142.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-03/news/os-seminole-county-voter-fraud-20130503_1_longwood-man-early-voting-illegal-ballot

http://www.ksfy.com/story/22515709/mitchell-school-board-member-reacts-to-alleged-voter-fraud-arrest

http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com/category/voter-fraud-arrests-and-convictions/

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/05/30/poll-worker-who-voted-for-obama-multiple-times-convicted-of-voting-fraud-73217

http://theattackmachine.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/voter-fraud-four-democrats-convicted-in-new-york/

laughing3

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:51:49 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,301
Location: Cakeland, United States


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:48:05 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818
laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3 laughing3

You're flippin' hilarious. And what you provided is sooooo true. Too many U.S. citizens taking their freedom for granted. You made my day.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:52:44 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,818


Alright...it's my day off. I'm glad I'm kinda bored cuz it gave me the time to do some of ArtMan's homework for him. First things first - about a quarter of the links you provided are about the Acorn incident. Nice try but you can't lump the same investigation into your list to try to fool us. Whispers to ArtMan...it kind makes you look like you are committing voter fraud.
Two of the links are of the same story on different blogs. Looks like you're kinda good at multiple posting. You sure you aren't one of the fraudulent voters?
Just asking.
The vast majority of your links are articles reporting the arrest of someone SUSPECTED of voter fraud with no corroborating evidence of their guilt or innocence if/or whenever they went to trial.
There are a handful of reports of guilt associated with voter fraud...people voting as absentee and then physically voting at their precincts. What I found so amazing is that most of those reports were of people who are politicians, a relative of a politician and most of them are Republicans! To me that is surprising.
The one that I found most interesting were the first link and the last link. In the case of the last link - this is a report of 4 democrats who were exonerated after the Prosecutor wasted $500,000 over three trials and three and a half years. Hey guy...this your link. You should read it. It's laughable.
In the case of your first link - there is way too much information to go through but the stuff looks interesting. Accusations of counties voting 100% for Obama and 0% for Romney piques my attention but my gut reaction is its all b.s. on (most likely) a right wing blog.
The info you provided is negligible ArtMan so, if there is voter fraud...it isn't that much and the perpetrators were were caught right away.
Yay for law enforcement.
Oh, one more thing...if the info in the first link is true...then we are all screwed. Vast voter fraud and absolutely no one doing a dang thing about it is scary. But could you imagine republicans ALL keeping their mouths shut over vast fraud tipping the scale to Obama?
Naw...I can't see that either.
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