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sprite
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:46:46 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,415
Location: My Tower, United States
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 7:17:30 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807


Votes on Sprite's headache
Coco
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:11:11 PM

Rank: Story Lover

Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 4,445
Location: Fantasy City, United States
DirtyMartini wrote:


I strongly believe you should keep the option...I happen to know a number of writers post their stories with the FC option off, and then turn it on after they get on the Top Author list, or whatever it's called here, as a deterrent from people coming along and giving anonymous low scores and knocking them off the list...and yeah, it think it works to some extent anyway...

I think having more options, as far as how their stories are scored and commented is always a good thing...you can always point out the option next time someone complains about anonymous low scores...

And whoever suggested Captcha should be taken out back and shot...oh was that you Liz? I'm sorry, only kidding...evil4


How sad and very manipulative. But meh, it doesn't surprise me.

HotBttmInBriefs
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:17:43 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/6/2013
Posts: 1,520
Location: United States
trinket wrote:
I don't care if we don't have the option.... I don't even score if I'm forced to comment. I DO change my setting so that only members can vote though. Before I did that, I got a one on a poem that everyone else gave a four or five to. confused5


I thought non-members couldn't vote below a 3.

I know I was signed out one day -- didn't realize I was -- and I was reading stories and I came across a really bad formatted story with a lot of grammar problems in it. It was from 2009 before they had restrictions and I was going to vote it a 2. And the message came up that you had to be signed in to vote less than a 3 or 4 (can't remember which).

nicola
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:49:55 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
principessa wrote:


I think that is what 1ball is after.


Yes My 2 cents

nicola
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:52:50 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
HotBttmInBriefs wrote:


I thought non-members couldn't vote below a 3.

I know I was signed out one day -- didn't realize I was -- and I was reading stories and I came across a really bad formatted story with a lot of grammar problems in it. It was from 2009 before they had restrictions and I was going to vote it a 2. And the message came up that you had to be signed in to vote less than a 3 or 4 (can't remember which).


You can't vote less than a 4 if you're a non-member. It's to stop driveby down-voting, which we used to get a lot of. Now people are accountable for their actions.
nicola
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:51:57 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
RumpleForeskin wrote:
Bottom line: if Nic thinks the option is harmful to the site, then pull the plug...otherwise,, in the immortal words of John (or was it Paul?), let it be.

glasses8


I'm inclined to agree Rumple. Plus it's no work for Gav leaving it!
DirtyMartini
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:55:09 AM

Rank: Purveyor of Poetry & Porn

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 5,778
Location: Right here on Lush Stories..., United States
nicola wrote:


You can't vote less than a 4 if you're a non-member. It's to stop driveby down-voting, which we used to get a lot of.


Oh, when did that one start? News to me, though I admit I can't keep up with everything around here...and I have to assume it's the same over on the blue site now as well...

I guess there's less reason now to switch to FC, which I hear is "sad and manipulative"...

Btw, we don't have a huge problem with driveby down-voting over on the blue site, though lately we seem to be getting a rash of story submissions where people are putting spaces before punctuation marks...

If I read one more story or poem with spaces before commas and periods, I may just want to hurt somebody...well, if you figure out a way to put an end to that problem...please, let me know...


You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories

Milik_Redman
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:38:18 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4,351
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
After having time to think about this, and having read the thoughts of people who I have utmost respect for, i find myself in a no win situation. I prefer to use forced commenting because I do believe that if you are going to post a vote that is going to drop a story a half point or more, you should have the decency to say why. To me, that's just a courtesy. I dislike hiding behind anonymity.

This is probably a foible in my own mind, but it feels real to me. Maybe it's because I'm insecure (which I am), or maybe it's because I'm paranoid, which I might be. I don't know for certain, but when I had open voting, it was a virtual certainty that a 2 or 3 would be dropped the moment I hit the authors list. This happened to a number of my poems, including Love Birds and and The Devils Hunt on the blue site, both of which won EP's the same held true for virtually every chapter of Kelly's passion.

I will say that not only have my scores been higher since I began using the FC, my comments have skyrocketed. This could very well be because I'm better known now and my writing has become cleaner and more polished, but I can't help but think that having the stories stay high on the all time lists have improved their exposure.

Is this sad and manipulative? Probably. I'm sure there are some here, including those I have great respect for, that would say certainly. All I can say is that I'm actually an extremely sensative and emotional man and I put an enormous effort into my writing. It kills me to spend a month or more writing a story only to see it essentially vanish from any real visibility because someone clandestinely decided to torpedo it on a whim.

So there it is. I admit to being petty and paranoid, to being thin skinned and to put to much of my own self worth into the creation of my work. The problem is mine and not the sites or the voting readership. For that reason, I'm far more comfortable with FC on, and I can only offer my deepest apologies to anyone who is inconvenienced by it, or understandably worse, feels that my using this has artificially elevated my scores.

I have no doubt I'll draw fire for this and I respond now by saying I won't respond. This is my last words on the subject. In the end, what ever the decision is, it should not be based on what I want. I'm just one man who enjoy's telling stories. If the option is removed, I'll still tell them and just hope people will feel they are worth reading.

Thanks for everyone's patience, and thank you Nicola for giving me an outlet for my work; in many ways, it keeps me sane.

β€œIt is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero


My Editors Choice Award Winning Stories.








nicola
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:09:48 AM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
You make a very valid reason there Milik, as to why it should stay. Hugs
Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:31:26 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807
sprite wrote:


and i feel bad about that, but i thought it was going to be about unicorns and i felt really let down when i found out it wasn't Embarassed


Dear Spriteness, this is just for you sweetheart, Trinketxxxx





Coco
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:57:37 AM

Rank: Story Lover

Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 4,445
Location: Fantasy City, United States
DirtyMartini wrote:


I guess there's less reason now to switch to FC, which I hear is "sad and manipulative"...


No, you misunderstand. The use of the option to remain on the front page is sad and manipulative. Sorry to offend those who do this, but it's my opinion.

clum
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:19:26 AM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,274
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
nicola wrote:
You can't vote less than a 4 if you're a non-member. It's to stop driveby down-voting, which we used to get a lot of. Now people are accountable for their actions.


I didn't realise this. Surely, since we CHOOSE whether to allow public voting, the drive-by down-voting is a risk the author has to decide to take?

Every day is a school day.
nicola
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:30:14 AM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
clum wrote:
I didn't realise this. Surely, since we CHOOSE whether to allow public voting, the drive-by down-voting is a risk the author has to decide to take?


What was happening, was people from other sites / bored idiots / trolls / people trying to vote stories off the top lists for their gain etc, were voting every story a 1, without even reading them. I'd then get an inbox full of complaints, and lots of bad feeling on the site as a result. Not to mention the time wasted going in and clearing out all the 1's and 2's from each story.

So, it protects the authors from thoughtless voting, and saves me hours of admin time. Win win.

A simple solution was to force membership, which means they are then held accountable. The anonymous 1 votes disappeared overnight.
clum
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:38:17 AM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,274
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
nicola wrote:
What was happening, was people from other sites / bored idiots / trolls / people trying to vote stories off the top lists for their gain etc, were voting every story a 1, without even reading them. I'd then get an inbox full of complaints, and lots of bad feeling on the site as a result. Not to mention the time wasted going in and clearing out all the 1's and 2's from each story.

So, it protects the authors from thoughtless voting, and saves me hours of admin time. Win win.

A simple solution was to force membership, which means they are then held accountable. The anonymous 1 votes disappeared overnight.


Okay, I understand. Probably just because I would never think to complain to admin about low scores, wherever they came from. Forcing membership makes sense (although I'd argue maybe just for 1s and 2s).

Every day is a school day.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:51:35 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807
HotBttmInBriefs wrote:


I thought non-members couldn't vote below a 3.

I know I was signed out one day -- didn't realize I was -- and I was reading stories and I came across a really bad formatted story with a lot of grammar problems in it. It was from 2009 before they had restrictions and I was going to vote it a 2. And the message came up that you had to be signed in to vote less than a 3 or 4 (can't remember which).


Maybe I got it wrong then, maybe I got the one before I changed the settings on my account. Regarding non members voting on stories, is it a good idea that they can? If they can't, that would wipe out a lot of the malicious votes. Obviously I don't know what the stats are, but looking at the scores and comments on my stories, it doesn't look like too many non members voted on them anyway.

Just my opinion, but if someone doesn't want to go to the trouble of creating an account, why should they be given the right to vote? If HotBttmInBriefs is correct, scoring someone even one three can still throw someone's score way off what it might deserve unless they get a lot of higher votes to offset it. At least if I got a three from a registered member I'd know it was for a genuine reason and not just to bring my scores down.
HotBttmInBriefs
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 6:45:24 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/6/2013
Posts: 1,520
Location: United States
trinket wrote:


Maybe I got it wrong then, maybe I got the one before I changed the settings on my account. Regarding non members voting on stories, is it a good idea that they can? If they can't, that would wipe out a lot of the malicious votes. Obviously I don't know what the stats are, but looking at the scores and comments on my stories, it doesn't look like too many non members voted on them anyway.

Just my opinion, but if someone doesn't want to go to the trouble of creating an account, why should they be given the right to vote? If HotBttmInBriefs is correct, scoring someone even one three can still throw someone's score way off what it might deserve unless they get a lot of higher votes to offset it. At least if I got a three from a registered member I'd know it was for a genuine reason and not just to bring my scores down.


Trinket, I don't know if you saw or not but Nicola confirmed that they can't vote lower than a 4.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:07:02 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807
I hate that I am forced to comment at times, however, it is an option. If someone feels it helps then more power to them. I'm sure they realize some will leave and choose not to vote but I don't believe this option hurts the site or experience here on lush. There will always be people who vote like asses and want to bring down high scores just like there will always be helpful comments and throwaway comments. I don't like the mandatory comment option, but the keyword is 'option.'
Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:54:37 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807
HotBttmInBriefs wrote:


Trinket, I don't know if you saw or not but Nicola confirmed that they can't vote lower than a 4.



No I hadn't Mike, and thanks. Makes me wonder how many people are getting fours who only deserve threes. coffee NO I'M JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!.stirthepot There are so many ways you could look at all this, there is never going to be a perfect method.

Now I think about that score of one I got, it was on my first story. Nobody else gave me less than a four. I changed the settings so that non members couldn't vote on my story because I assumed it had been a non member.
HotBttmInBriefs
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:38:47 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/6/2013
Posts: 1,520
Location: United States
No Trinket there is not a perfect method.

I personally am game for anything that keeps some idiot from just voting out of revenge or a desire to get his or her story higher. If someone truly thinks my story deserves a 1 give me that 1, but to just do it for their own selfish reasons I will do whatever it takes to stop that childish behavior.

Poppet
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:14:48 PM

Rank: Sweetest Cricket

Joined: 10/5/2012
Posts: 5,229
Location: You Inspire Me, United States
Milik_The_Red wrote:
After having time to think about this, and having read the thoughts of people who I have utmost respect for, i find myself in a no win situation. I prefer to use forced commenting because I do believe that if you are going to post a vote that is going to drop a story a half point or more, you should have the decency to say why. To me, that's just a courtesy. I dislike hiding behind anonymity.

This is probably a foible in my own mind, but it feels real to me. Maybe it's because I'm insecure (which I am), or maybe it's because I'm paranoid, which I might be. I don't know for certain, but when I had open voting, it was a virtual certainty that a 2 or 3 would be dropped the moment I hit the authors list. This happened to a number of my poems, including Love Birds and and The Devils Hunt on the blue site, both of which won EP's the same held true for virtually every chapter of Kelly's passion.

I will say that not only have my scores been higher since I began using the FC, my comments have skyrocketed. This could very well be because I'm better known now and my writing has become cleaner and more polished, but I can't help but think that having the stories stay high on the all time lists have improved their exposure.

Is this sad and manipulative? Probably. I'm sure there are some here, including those I have great respect for, that would say certainly. All I can say is that I'm actually an extremely sensative and emotional man and I put an enormous effort into my writing. It kills me to spend a month or more writing a story only to see it essentially vanish from any real visibility because someone clandestinely decided to torpedo it on a whim.

So there it is. I admit to being petty and paranoid, to being thin skinned and to put to much of my own self worth into the creation of my work. The problem is mine and not the sites or the voting readership. For that reason, I'm far more comfortable with FC on, and I can only offer my deepest apologies to anyone who is inconvenienced by it, or understandably worse, feels that my using this has artificially elevated my scores.

I have no doubt I'll draw fire for this and I respond now by saying I won't respond. This is my last words on the subject. In the end, what ever the decision is, it should not be based on what I want. I'm just one man who enjoy's telling stories. If the option is removed, I'll still tell them and just hope people will feel they are worth reading.

Thanks for everyone's patience, and thank you Nicola for giving me an outlet for my work; in many ways, it keeps me sane.


You've taken the words right out of my mouth, except I'm a girl, of course. I just gave you hundreds of kudos for this point, Milik. It's very, honest and easy for people to pick a part. However, I'm not one, because I feel the same as you do. Thank you for taking the words I couldn't form myself and saying them perfectly.

CharlotteRusse1
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 9:55:00 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/9/2011
Posts: 202
Location: United States
Well since I started this, I'll have to say that one of the reasons I didn't like the forced commenting feature was that I found many quite mediocre stories scored very high (all 5s) with just a few votes. My guess was that the people who would have voted stories a 4 or 3 were just not voting at all because they didn't want to comment.

I'd rather have the best stories get the best scores, rather than the ones that have forced commenting turned on. I used to use the highest-scored rankings to find older good stories, now I just ignore the ones with only a few votes and I have to search further down the list for good stories (or just use Editors Picks).

Perhaps we can allow forced commenting for a score of 3 or below, but not for a 4 or a 5? I don't think anyone should feel bad about a score of 4 without a comment...



Writer of amateur erotica since 2011..See the latest at:

nicola
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 10:32:21 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 25,419
Location: The Orgasmatron
CharlotteRusse1 wrote:
Perhaps we can allow forced commenting for a score of 3 or below, but not for a 4 or a 5? I don't think anyone should feel bad about a score of 4 without a comment...



It still biases the votes. If I wanted to vote a story a 3 (or a 1 or 2), and was forced to comment, I might not bother, for one reason or another. Many people feel the same way. They may simply not vote, or leave a 4 and be done with it.
Sfx
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 10:52:13 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 6/6/2013
Posts: 62
I think comments should be made at the discretion of the reader.
RejectReality
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:25:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 1/29/2012
Posts: 95
Location: Alternate Reality, United States
No matter what, the scores are going to skew high ( barring someone having a personal vendetta )

Most people who make it to the end of a story and the voting form are likely to have enjoyed it. Those who don't like it probably back-click before they get there. The number of people who vote on everything they read is probably a fraction of the fraction who vote at all.

I've seen about every iteration of voting control there is. Scripts that remove votes inconsistent with the voting pattern on the story. Algorithms that adjust all displayed scores based upon the mean of stories posted. Dropping the upper and lower X% of votes.

In the end, it's an internet poll, and the most you can hope for is to reasonably mitigate the shenanigans people are inevitably going to engage in. Someone who is determined to tip the scales in their favor or against someone else is going to find a way. You can't stop it.

I leave my voting wide open, but I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to make users explain a low vote with a comment. If it gives them an advantage on front-page/most lists, so be it - even if that's the express purpose for using the feature. When you choose the option to remain open to all voting, you either know or soon discover that it puts you at a disadvantage to anyone requiring comments. If you're here, you certainly know now.

It's your choice. Make it, and let others make theirs icon_smile

Guest
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:00:32 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,807
nicola wrote:
If you head to your settings, you will see this option:

Comment on Score - A comment must be given when my stories are scored

Some people think this will help get them more comments.

Personally, I don't like it at all. I won't bother leaving a score if I'm forced to comment.

I'm considering scrapping the option.


I agree. It makes me feel like I'm begging for comments. Scrap it!
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