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Agrippa
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:23:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 7/29/2013
Posts: 50
Location: United Kingdom
It is now fifty years, to the day, since Martin Luther King Jr's famous speech at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington. Much has changed in the world in those fifty years some good, some not so good.

I wonder what he would make of the changes that his life and work helped to bring about, not only in the USA, but throughout the world. I wonder what he would feel that needs a similar dream today.

If you had a dream, what would it be?

BiMale73
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:56:35 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/4/2013
Posts: 409
Location: Basement
Dare I say 'World Peace'? :)

- Equal rights (in law and in practice) for all, everywhere on Earth, no matter what your gender, race, ability, sexual orientation or opinion is.
- No more privileges for religion. Religion is purely a private issue. Claims based on religion are not considered to have any validity because of that basis.
- Long term visions in politics and business, about the environment and society. This should increase their status, not how much money/votes they can win.
- A great sense of solidarity with those who are less fortunate.
- A free and open internet.
- No patents on life/genes, medication, software and ideas.




Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:04:09 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
My dream would be to level the equality of the the IRS. Everyone pay their fair share. Limited but equal write-offs.
I would make voting rights federal law across the board.
I would make the feds enforce the laws already on the books concerning corporations and ag individuals hiring illegals.
I would create a program similar to what congress wants to impose on teachers. Reach certain goals or forfeit wages.
I would grow a strong middle class in America by paying fair wages and raising the minimum wage.
...this is just for beginners.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:12:28 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Kristind wrote:

I would make the feds enforce the laws already on the books concerning corporations ans ag individuals hiring illegals.


This is the most serious question I have ever asked on here... And what is your alternative? To fill the labor black hole that not hiring illegals for ag would create?



Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:48:40 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Magical_felix wrote:


This is the most serious question I have ever asked on here... And what is your alternative? To fill the labor black hole that not hiring illegals for ag would create?


If there is such a 'labor black hole' then it can be filled with unemployed Americans learning to work and provide even if it is the kind of hard labor they'd like to pass on. Oh...another change would be to raise the minimum wage so anyone working 40 hour week can pay their bills and provide for the families instead of living in poverty. Does that fill your 'black hole', Felix?
'
Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:30:48 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:32:28 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
Kristind wrote:


If there is such a 'labor black hole' then it can be filled with unemployed Americans learning to work and provide even if it is the kind of hard labor they'd like to pass on. Oh...another change would be to raise the minimum wage so anyone working 40 hour week can pay their bills and provide for the families instead of living in poverty. Does that fill your 'black hole', Felix?
'


Why would somebody hire a person if they had to pay them more than the work could justify?

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Nikki703
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 3:16:02 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2009
Posts: 12,661
Location: The Other Side Of The Mirror
Kristind wrote:


If there is such a 'labor black hole' then it can be filled with unemployed Americans learning to work and provide even if it is the kind of hard labor they'd like to pass on. Oh...another change would be to raise the minimum wage so anyone working 40 hour week can pay their bills and provide for the families instead of living in poverty. Does that fill your 'black hole', Felix?
'


In theory it is a great idea. But are you willing to pay $10 for a head of lettuce? While I would much rather see an American citizen hold a job that is currently occupied by a person who is here illegally, there would be serious ramifications to this practice.

Its not as easy as it sounds!
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:49:08 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
Nikki703 wrote:


In theory it is a great idea. But are you willing to pay $10 for a head of lettuce? While I would much rather see an American citizen hold a job that is currently occupied by a person who is here illegally, there would be serious ramifications to this practice.

Its not as easy as it sounds!


Why should one person work for less than a living wage so that another person can live in luxury? Those of you who believe it's alright for people to hire people at less than minimum wage should go to work for those people. My labor is as important to me as any other person's capital. I want a fair trade for it. Why should I be willing to work for almost nothing? If a person can't afford to pay a living wage, they should get out of business and get one of those sub-minimum wage jobs that they are so happy to give other people. Labor owes nothing to capital. It's not the job of labor to keep capitalists in silk shirts and swimming pools.

There are plenty of people who would use slave labor if they could. Cotton mill owners used to work children twelve hours a day to spin the cotton that plantation owners in the American south produced using slave labor. The share cropper system that took over after the civil war was just as bad. People worked all year long and ended up owing money to the land owner. Corporations would love to have labor laws revoked, unions shut down, and industries deregulated. It's not because they have some great ideal of free markets though, it's greed.

VanGogh
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:43:02 PM

Rank: Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado

Joined: 2/10/2012
Posts: 3,036
Location: Vancouver, Canada
my dream ..... I Imagine This .....



A Milf series combined with Office Sex *fans face* .... The Secretary and The Student
starting with The Secretary and The Student - first part

Enjoy!!

For the Anal Lovers .... come enjoy my RR honoured An Alluring Ass

Another Sex in the Office Poem (I know you love those!!) In Your Office

Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:24:34 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Kristind wrote:


If there is such a 'labor black hole' then it can be filled with unemployed Americans learning to work and provide even if it is the kind of hard labor they'd like to pass on. Oh...another change would be to raise the minimum wage so anyone working 40 hour week can pay their bills and provide for the families instead of living in poverty. Does that fill your 'black hole', Felix?
'


Actually no. No it does not fill my black hole. Those unemployed Americans can very easily get a job in agriculture. Ag employers prefer employees that can speak english and have driver's licenses. Most entry level ag jobs in my area pay a few dollars more than minimum wage as well but guess what... Americans will not do the job. They just won't. They prefer to work at Walmart for minimum wage because it's easy and the expectations from the managers are low. You need absolutely no education to work as a laborer in ag. Americans just wont do that job because it's hard. They want 25 dollars an hour and benefits which is ridiculous for a job that requires no skill or education.

IF the government really did get rid of illegal employment in ag, you know what would happen? Fruits, vegetables and all the products that they go into would become more expensive, a lot more expensive because the ag employers would not be able to find people to work the fields and orchards and would have to abandon them. All of a sudden a tomato becomes more scarce. The demand would still be there but the supply won't. And you know what happens when the supply doesn't meet the demand.



Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:25:08 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Nikki703 wrote:


In theory it is a great idea. But are you willing to pay $10 for a head of lettuce? While I would much rather see an American citizen hold a job that is currently occupied by a person who is here illegally, there would be serious ramifications to this practice.

Its not as easy as it sounds!


I hear what you're saying Nikki but the truth is $10.00 lettuce is a myth and if it did come to that it would not be the result of paying people a livable wage. It would be the result of "speculators" on wall street jacking the price up just as they do with gasoline all the time. Gasoline does not have to be nearly what it is. "Speculators" jack the prices with the main thing in mind to pad a better bottom line for their boss. It happens daily. The government should get involved but many politicians would cry "WE HAVE A NEW WAR ON CAPITALISM."
Another fact, for example, is the pennies in difference between a Big Mac in the states and a Big Mac downunder. Australia's minimum wage is $15.96. TWICE that of America yet the difference between burgers is a mere eleven cents. Where do you think the difference in wages is going to? If you didn't say "the owners pockets" you'd be mistaken.

Nikki, in a college business class we studied, as an example, when Major League Baseball players formed their union. EVERY SINGLE Major League Baseball Club owner cried and wailed about how this was going to be the end of baseball. True? Nothing has ever been more false. Baseball owners continued making massive amounts of money...and so did everybody else...the players the restaurants, the parking...all the support.

And before anybody jumps on the bandwagon of overpriced tickets let me get my bucket of cold water ready for your baptism...lol. Over priced tickets did not come into the scenario until the owners started building extravagant baseball parks...over and above anything required. After that...let me introduce you you to $9.00 bottles of beer and $10.00 garlic fries.

The process America uses to build society is fixed and that needs to change, for sure.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:28:32 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
1ball wrote:


Why would somebody hire a person if they had to pay them more than the work could justify?


Your ignorance is showing 1 Ball or you're drinking the kool-aid. I refer you to my response to Nikki's assertion. By the way 1Ball...did you notice how I had a discussion with Nikki and I didn't talk down to her....learn something here, 1 Ball. Learn something.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:32:12 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Ruthie wrote:


Why should one person work for less than a living wage so that another person can live in luxury? Those of you who believe it's alright for people to hire people at less than minimum wage should go to work for those people. My labor is as important to me as any other person's capital. I want a fair trade for it. Why should I be willing to work for almost nothing? If a person can't afford to pay a living wage, they should get out of business and get one of those sub-minimum wage jobs that they are so happy to give other people. Labor owes nothing to capital. It's not the job of labor to keep capitalists in silk shirts and swimming pools.

There are plenty of people who would use slave labor if they could. Cotton mill owners used to work children twelve hours a day to spin the cotton that plantation owners in the American south produced using slave labor. The share cropper system that took over after the civil war was just as bad. People worked all year long and ended up owing money to the land owner. Corporations would love to have labor laws revoked, unions shut down, and industries deregulated. It's not because they have some great ideal of free markets though, it's greed.



This is simply not true. Ag is probably the most regulated industry in the United States. The government is up labor contractors asses daily. Labor contractor license is the hardest license to get too. Maybe you saw on the news that some contractor was paying cash to some laborers somewhere and they blew it out of proportion to push some agenda but it is not the norm. It is probably the same percentage of Ag employers that do this as any other industry.



Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:01:56 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Magical_felix wrote:


Actually no. No it does not fill my black hole. Those unemployed Americans can very easily get a job in agriculture. Ag employers prefer employees that can speak english and have driver's licenses. Most entry level ag jobs in my area pay a few dollars more than minimum wage as well but guess what... Americans will not do the job. They just won't. They prefer to work at Walmart for minimum wage because it's easy and the expectations from the managers are low. You need absolutely no education to work as a laborer in ag. Americans just wont do that job because it's hard. They want 25 dollars an hour and benefits which is ridiculous for a job that requires no skill or education.

IF the government really did get rid of illegal employment in ag, you know what would happen? Fruits, vegetables and all the products that they go into would become more expensive, a lot more expensive because the ag employers would not be able to find people to work the fields and orchards and would have to abandon them. All of a sudden a tomato becomes more scarce. The demand would still be there but the supply won't. And you know what happens when the supply doesn't meet the demand.


I hear what you're saying Felix but...BIG BUTT here...lol...I don't know where you get the $25.00 an hour figure. I could be wrong but that number seems to be plucked out of thin air. And with the Affordable Care Act taking care of the benefits the scenario is much more realistic. Whistle
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:11:46 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:


This is simply not true. Ag is probably the most regulated industry in the United States. The government is up labor contractors asses daily. Labor contractor license is the hardest license to get too. Maybe you saw on the news that some contractor was paying cash to some laborers somewhere and they blew it out of proportion to push some agenda but it is not the norm. It is probably the same percentage of Ag employers that do this as any other industry.


I didn't say that they weren't regulated. I said that they'd love not to be. Close reading is a skill. Learn it.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:54:45 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Ruthie wrote:


I didn't say that they weren't regulated. I said that they'd love not to be.


And employees would love to get paid a million dollars a year but it's no reality and it's not what happens. Just like employers not being regulated, it's not reality no matter what they want... So what does that have to do with anything?

You weren't suggesting that the agriculture industry pays the laborers less than minimum wage? Looks like you were. A few dollars over the minimum wage isn't good enough for unskilled labor? You're weren't blaming employers for the lack of a willing american work force? Sounds like you were. You sound like a typical american... "my labor is important". You said that the employer should go try to do the job of the employee to see how he likes it. Well if it's so easy to be the employer than why don't the laborers start their own company and pay their laborers what they think is fair... Wait, they don't because it's not that easy and it's just not possible because Americans want cheap food.

Quote:
It's not the job of labor to keep capitalists in silk shirts and swimming pools.


No it's not, you're right. It's the job of the smart capitalist to do that. Laborers are mostly not intelligent enough to be capitalists. That's why they are laborers. That's why it's called unskilled labor. In your mind, the employer is bad because he want's to benefit from the risk he took to start a business? Why start a business at all if you can't have luxuries?


Quote:
Close reading is a skill. Learn it.


Communicating clearly what you mean through writing is a skill too. I thought you'd be better at it. Seems like you said one thing and are now saying you didn't.




Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:55:57 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Kristind wrote:


BIG BUTT here...lol...


You got a big butt, girl? I like that~

Kristind wrote:


I don't know where you get the $25.00 an hour figure. I could be wrong but that number seems to be plucked out of thin air. And with the Affordable Care Act taking care of the benefits the scenario is much more realistic. Whistle


I get that figure from talking with americans and what it would take for them to do work in the hot ass sun. 25 bucks an hour is like the goal a lot of californians want to be able live pretty comfortably and buy a house and such. 200-250 bucks a day basically.




Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:01:13 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Magical_felix wrote:


I get that figure from talking with americans and what it would take for them to do work in the hot ass sun. 25 bucks an hour is like the goal a lot of californians want to be able live pretty comfortably and buy a house and such. 200-250 bucks a day basically.


You called my butt big? Ha!! Just curious Felix....what field do you work in? Is it related to ag?
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:09:03 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,902
Location: California
Kristind wrote:


You called my butt big? Ha!! Just curious Felix....what field do you work in? Is it related to ag?


Im an aggravator.



Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:12:58 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Magical_felix wrote:


Im an aggravator.


Felix speaks TRUTH! A male that understands himself well. What a turn on. Another one of my dreams. Males getting in touch with themselves instead of just touching themselves. Felix is my hero....for the moment.
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:18:02 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Communicating clearly what you mean through writing is a skill too. I thought you'd be better at it. Seems like you said one thing and are now saying you didn't.


You misread me catman. How many times do I have to tell you that? I have no obligation to work for anyone. Do you think I do? Just because someone want's their oranges picked doesn't mean that I have to go pick them. There are people who want to do away with the minimum wage. Do you deny that? Corporations would like to be unregulated and free to pay workers sub living wages. Because a person takes a risk to start a business doesn't obligate anyone to work for them. Do you think it does?

American agriculture isn't small farms and red barns anymore, it's big business. It's run by corporations, who use congress to give them subsidies so that they can make fortunes. There isn't a little farm wife throwing cracked corn to her chickens in the yard, there are huge chicken growing operations tied to processing plants tied to feed mills. The owners of those corporations get money from the government not to grow things.

I'm glad you've had such a wonderful life under capitalism. Capitalism is pretty rough on some people though. I don't suppose you care about any of them. Why should you. You're doing all right. The time will never come when you have to decide between living in the dark and feeding your children. Unless those gypsy curses work, of course. Then you're up shit creek.

Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:21:42 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:




IF the government really did get rid of illegal employment in ag, you know what would happen? Fruits, vegetables and all the products that they go into would become more expensive, a lot more expensive because the ag employers would not be able to find people to work the fields and orchards and would have to abandon them.


If the government finally gets rid of all those laws about robbing banks, we'll be able to make a pretty good living. Damn those laws that keep us from making money.cussing
Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:36:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
Ruthie wrote:


If the government finally gets rid of all those laws about robbing banks, we'll be able to make a pretty good living. Damn those laws that keep us from making money.cussing


Perfect arguments for how wealth, real wealth - not some moron fantasy scenario about wealth, has screwed this country up. The wealthy are so damn arrogant to take as much as they can with out thinking what the next logical progression would be to sustain their income and acquisitions once they have completely divided the country and removed the middle class.

And I further submit that with 'benefits' being acquired with the Affordable Care Act, if American workers were given a reasonable offer as opposed a poverty scale wage of pathetic proportions, a compromise could be found somewhere in between. Just because an ag employer says they can't afford more than $12.00 or $14.00 p/h doesn't make it so. I refer you to the MLB owners who tried the same thing. The problem is most Americans aren't free thinking enough. Most are so willing to simply follow...like lemmings.
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:13:41 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
Kristind wrote:


Your ignorance is showing 1 Ball or you're drinking the kool-aid. I refer you to my response to Nikki's assertion. By the way 1Ball...did you notice how I had a discussion with Nikki and I didn't talk down to her....learn something here, 1 Ball. Learn something.


You're kinda the queen of talking down to people you don't agree with, but that's beside the point. You didn't answer my question. We know what happens when the government dictates the price of labor. The markets laugh and adjust around the new rules. The poor get poorer and the rich get richer and the middle class gets smaller. Competition in the labor market and competition in the consumer goods market and competition in the governing market and competition in the capital market all have an effect on prices. When the government ignores that and plays favorites for labor, they hurt consumers. They don't get more out of the wealthy, because capital is free to go elsewhere. No amount of magical thinking will get employers to pay more than the labor is worth and create jobs. You can get one or the other for a while, but not both. There's too much competition for capital to require capitalists to give it away.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:19:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
Kristind wrote:


Perfect arguments for how wealth, real wealth - not some moron fantasy scenario about wealth, has screwed this country up. The wealthy are so damn arrogant to take as much as they can with out thinking what the next logical progression would be to sustain their income and acquisitions once they have completely divided the country and removed the middle class.


What's the point in investing here for the long term when the rules can so easily change in the short term? Blaming investors for the failure of governments in their role of enabling productivity is what has divided the country and removed the middle class. Pretending that there will be no adverse consequences to top-down control of choices is simply willful ignorance.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:30:56 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
1ball wrote:


You're kinda the queen of talking down to people you don't agree with, but that's beside the point. You didn't answer my question. We know what happens when the government dictates the price of labor. The markets laugh and adjust around the new rules. The poor get poorer and the rich get richer and the middle class gets smaller. Competition in the labor market and competition in the consumer goods market and competition in the governing market and competition in the capital market all have an effect on prices. When the government ignores that and plays favorites for labor, they hurt consumers. They don't get more out of the wealthy, because capital is free to go elsewhere. No amount of magical thinking will get employers to pay more than the labor is worth and create jobs. You can get one or the other for a while, but not both. There's too much competition for capital to require capitalists to give it away.


You have me soooo totally wrong. I am only the Queen of Bitchy when I clearly observe bullying and non-discussion going on...as in your responses to me and other people in your wealth threads. If you notice, I generally do not talk down to people as you and a coupla other guys have, shooting people's ideas down like snipers. 98% of the time I am having a discussion with people. You may do very well manipulating your own thread but carrying on a discussion...now thats where you fall short. And you know what they say...




...or call her "the queen of talking down to people". As far as the rest of your argument, the evidence is there and it's strong...paying a living wage...taking care of the middle class and keeping the middle class strong is the ONLY way this country can survive with abounding strength under capitalism. The proof can be found in the 50's through the 80's when unions were strong and the middle class thrived. Take a good look at the markets...thriving better than ever under this "socialist" President. Ha! It is only when deregulation reared its ugly head and a gold rush for the wealthy took over, did the scale tip unfairly into the hands of the greedy 2% They gave b.s. loans to people who by rights shouldn't have gotten them. Loans the knowledgeable bankers KNEW would fail. They corrupted the system with their greed and a lot of the wealthiest got wealthier.
I'll point to one of the first exercises in deregulation...the deregulation of the telephone company AT&T. The govt promised lower phone bills. Fact was...the people got more options but telephone their bill NEVER went down. They went up!. Now we have iphones and droids that cost $100 bucks before we've even used them! And the billing options are self-serving to the corporations and expensive.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:39:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
1ball wrote:


What's the point in investing here for the long term when the rules can so easily change in the short term? Blaming investors for the failure of governments in their role of enabling productivity is what has divided the country and removed the middle class. Pretending that there will be no adverse consequences to top-down control of choices is simply willful ignorance.


BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! What brought this country to its knees was the taking away of Government Regulations. The government's lack of enabling productivity? Really? How about greedy Banks, Bankers and financial institutions stealing billions of dollars of tax payer money, with the assistance of one Henry Paulson and the Bush administration, and then instead of creating the loans with the billions they stole...they sit on it! They are even arrogant enough to tell the govt to kiss ass when asked what they did with money. This by itself created such uncertainty in the markets that no bank was willing to loan a cent to small business, the real backbone of the economy. With small business suffering, and the banks not lending...the consumer cannot spend. The result is now historical.

The govt failing to enable productivity? You've got it wrong. It was top rate, high class robbery by the financial institutions. My bitch with the govt is they are doing NOTHING to demand answers and accountability.

Furthermore...to invest here...in the U.S.A. is still a good investment. The wealthiest country, the strongest country....the leader of the world with MANY, MANY, MANY wealthy people who have created their wealth...right here. Thats why investing in the long term right here is the best bet. Besides...they stole their money from here and are so arrogant to want to see their thievery through. They don't want to go anywhere else. And a change in top down control will create adverse change...unless the shift is given to small business and the middle class...who has had all the clout all along. I submit to you the WalMart dilemma. WalMart, a major power going down for the count? Why? Cuz their competition is paying a livable wage and providing benefits to it's employee's and offering a better product. As opposed to selling crap, treating their employee's like crap and getting govt subsidies while creating govt dependant employees cuz working a 40 hour hour week still won't pay the bills and put food on the table.

We are finding that out as more and more states adopt "right to work" laws and we find that each and every one of those states have lost the bulk of the middle class and are the poorest states in the union and...by the way...are all red states. GO FIGURE!

Another point you are ignoring as far as the govt not enabling productivity...let me remind you of a Presidential race where the entire discussion was focused on JOBS, JOBS, JOBS! Since then Congress has proposed no less than 634 pieces of legislation on a womans reproductive rights and NOT ONE JOBS BILL. By the way...those 634 pieces of legislation is all iin the year 2013. Thats right....so far in this calendar year. So as for the argument about the govt role to enable productivity...the Republicans have to come up with an actual jobs PLAN, when they have none. And it would also be good for the Republicans to pass Obama's job bill which they did not even allow to go to debate in the HOUSE. Another good move would be for the Democrats to get off their asses and start calling a spade a spade...which Obama has begun to do.

Did he really ask that question and make that bullshit statement?????

So, I stand by my dream of a strong middle class...because its my dream.

Now, lets get back to the subject of this thread.
Nikki703
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 12:08:58 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2009
Posts: 12,661
Location: The Other Side Of The Mirror
Kristind wrote:


I hear what you're saying Nikki but the truth is $10.00 lettuce is a myth and if it did come to that it would not be the result of paying people a livable wage. It would be the result of "speculators" on wall street jacking the price up just as they do with gasoline all the time. Gasoline does not have to be nearly what it is. "Speculators" jack the prices with the main thing in mind to pad a better bottom line for their boss. It happens daily. The government should get involved but many politicians would cry "WE HAVE A NEW WAR ON CAPITALISM."
Another fact, for example, is the pennies in difference between a Big Mac in the states and a Big Mac downunder. Australia's minimum wage is $15.96. TWICE that of America yet the difference between burgers is a mere eleven cents. Where do you think the difference in wages is going to? If you didn't say "the owners pockets" you'd be mistaken.

Nikki, in a college business class we studied, as an example, when Major League Baseball players formed their union. EVERY SINGLE Major League Baseball Club owner cried and wailed about how this was going to be the end of baseball. True? Nothing has ever been more false. Baseball owners continued making massive amounts of money...and so did everybody else...the players the restaurants, the parking...all the support.

And before anybody jumps on the bandwagon of overpriced tickets let me get my bucket of cold water ready for your baptism...lol. Over priced tickets did not come into the scenario until the owners started building extravagant baseball parks...over and above anything required. After that...let me introduce you you to $9.00 bottles of beer and $10.00 garlic fries.

The process America uses to build society is fixed and that needs to change, for sure.


I guess you have never been to Fenway Park. Most expensive tickets and concessions and no one has ever described it as extravagant! The owners raised the ticket prices because us baseball fans (and Mega Corporations) are dumb enough to pay it!
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 12:12:55 AM

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Nikki703 wrote:


I guess you have never been to Fenway Park. Most expensive tickets and concessions and no one has ever described it as extravagant! The owners raised the ticket prices because us baseball fans (and Mega Corporations) are dumb enough to pay it!


AND THE ANSWER IS...BINGO! YOU ARE CORRECT. JOHNNY...TELL THE PRETTY LADY WHAT SHE HAS WON!
But why wouldn't they raise their prices. Why be the only baseball park to offer reasonable prices on tix, beer or hot dogs when their peers are charging so much more. I know its not as easy as that but you get my point I hope.

Sad isn't it? It's also sad that I have never been to Fenway Park...lol.
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