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Time to Ban and Burn confederate flags Options · View
Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:56:12 PM

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Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,166
Location: United States
His Royal Majesty Simon Abney-Hastings, outside his palace in Warranting, Victoria, Australia.




The Plantagenet flag.





The pretenders.



The Pretender Queen's knickers.


ByronLord
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:08:05 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 716
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Ruthie wrote:

I have to disagree about the Boston Tea Party. The people who held the party were concerned about British tea, which was priced lower than the tea that they smuggled in and sold themselves, even including the tax stamps. Legally imported tea, with a proper tax stamp actually cost less than the tea that colonists smuggled in and sold, and the smugglers didn't like the competition. It's always about money.

...

Oh, and fuck the Queen and her family. Simon Hastings is rightful king of England, Scotland and Ireland, as well as Prince of Wales. When he comes back across the water we'll see the Windsors all hanged.


It was actually rather more principled or at least logical than you suggest. If it was about taxes then changing governments made no sense, taxes were sure to go up. What they wanted was to be able to have a say in the decisions of the colony of which taxation policy was the one they could all agree on.

What was unexpected was the ridiculous over-reaction to what was not an uncommon sort of protest at the time. That was what brought Franklin and the anti-slavers on board.


As for Brenda (queeny-poos to you), I think Americans give her far too much respect. Therefore she should be restored to her proper place so that you can all disrespect her properly and with feeling like the Auzzies and other colonial types rather than fawn over her. Last time she came to the US the secret service had to remove six American owned tongues from her bumhole and that was just the press corps and congress.

texasranger11
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:00:47 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 48
Location: United States
i'm from texas and i couldn't give a damn about the confederate flag.. but texans are kinda a breed of their own, rightfully and legally so. i'm a texan first, an american second.. its about farms, livestock, oil, energy, technology, and good schools.. not about waving a flag... whoopty do.. burn it if you want, everyone is welcome down here
alliebug69
Posted: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:36:01 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 2,244
Location: In your dreams, United States
OK I am sure to offend someone, I didnt read all the posts, so some of my views may or may not have been expressed. I am from GA, so the confederate flag flies a lot around here on peoples private property. In most cases it is not flown out of hatred, but heritage. Southern Pride flows in the blood of the people down here, and is nothing more than a sign of the pride.

Weavindreams
Posted: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:16:37 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 4,947
Location: On the bluffs above the Mississippi River., United
alliebug69 wrote:
OK I am sure to offend someone, I didnt read all the posts, so some of my views may or may not have been expressed. I am from GA, so the confederate flag flies a lot around here on peoples private property. In most cases it is not flown out of hatred, but heritage. Southern Pride flows in the blood of the people down here, and is nothing more than a sign of the pride.


While I'm NOT from the South (I'm born and raised Mid Westerner) but I have KNOWN a number of Southerners and to the great vast majority they associate it (as Allie does; with pride in the part of their heritage that they have RIGHT to be proud of, NOT with slavery or racism).

Due to the politely worded request of a lady, I have changed my sig.

Raven_Star
Posted: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 12:19:32 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 2/22/2013
Posts: 1,048
Location: United States
Wow, this party's been going on for quite some time. I don't expect it to flare up terribly much now, but I have an opinion.

The Republic of the United States of America was created under the ideals of freedom and liberty for all. The First Amendment says this:

Quote:
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Now, I take that to mean that I can say or depict what I want, when I want, where I want, to whomever I want, as much as I want, without impeding on other's ability to do the same. Notice the lack of requirement for common sense, or political correctness. Say what you want, believe what you want, protest what you want in a peaceable manner, and require your government to explain itself when necessary.

Flying any flag clearly falls into this amendment. It's a visual expression. Again, common sense isn't always requested or present. As citizens of this great nation, we aren't required to be tactful. All we are required to do is follow the laws of the land and let our fellow neighbor live their life in whatever way they see fit, within those same laws.

Of course, we are all free to opine, and loudly. We are all free to educate those who do not perhaps understand their actions. The original poster was perfectly within his rights to post his opinion that it's time to ban and burn confederate flags. To actually go through with such an act, however, is to infringe on the inalienable rights of the man holding the flag in the first place. That man is well within his rights to hold a flag, any flag, anywhere he wants, as long as he is not doing it violently. Notice I mention nothing regarding his tact or common sense.

I will leave it with something I read today, regarding the protests that are currently under way in Venezuela:

"... the cornerstone of actual fascism is the refusal to recognize the legitimacy of dissenting opinion."

The whole world should be so lucky to be able to opine so freely without fear of retribution.



Ajax
Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:08:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/17/2013
Posts: 1,805
Location: Banging more than my head , United States
alliebug69 wrote:
OK I am sure to offend someone, I didnt read all the posts, so some of my views may or may not have been expressed. I am from GA, so the confederate flag flies a lot around here on peoples private property. In most cases it is not flown out of hatred, but heritage. Southern Pride flows in the blood of the people down here, and is nothing more than a sign of the pride.


If all is well in Dixie then why are they addressing issues such as this one? Yep, this is what's goin down in Georgia as we speak.

We keep hearing all this talk of 'Southern Pride' . Not once in my life thus far have i ever heard anyone running around proclaiming "Northern Pride" "Yankee Pride" . Because quite frankly, we are just Americans.







These Sons of Confederacy folks also wanted a licence plate in Mississippi honoring one of the founders of the KKK Nathan Bedford Forest.


Ajax
Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:12:00 PM

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Joined: 8/17/2013
Posts: 1,805
Location: Banging more than my head , United States

















Some polls taken on Oct 17 2013 .
chutzpah
Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:27:51 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 2/23/2014
Posts: 42
Location: United States
I'm not a native Texan.So the confederate flag basically means nothing to me. When I first came to Texas,(many years ago) someone had a little confederate flag. I thought it was a tissue and blew my nose with it. I survived but I learned a lesson about how important it is to some people.
onlyanalias
Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 2:33:32 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 7/16/2012
Posts: 24
Location: Suburban Philadelphia , United States
This is the oath I took when I enlisted in the U.S. Army:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

So I believe and will defend the First Amendment and FREEDOM.


If you read my stuff, please comment. I like to get honest feedback.
hayley
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2014 5:19:39 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/19/2012
Posts: 577
Location: NYC, United States
WOWWWWW!!!!! what a topic... what threads... I have read and read and read again...

as a new immigrant Embarassed ... wow! I said it for the first time ...Shhh don't tell my aussie friends and family... I am unqualified to comment.. BUT ..

in the demure world in which I was raised.. I was taught, that in polite society [in other words to avoid unpleasantries over dinner] one never discussed politics, religion, or money ...
now I have come to live in this wonderful country that is the USA ... I see that I shall have to add Modern American History to that list ... should keep me on the safe side.. happy8 [aussie smile]

when asked my opinion on flying, or waving of, the Confederate Flag, I shall simply smile and say... "What a great honour. Our first Confederate flag was the NSW Ensign, never formally adopted, and superseded on the first day of January, 1901 with our current Australian Flag of [Con]Federation, which has the Union Jack in the canton, the Southern Cross in the head and fourth quarter, and the [Con]Federation Star in the middle of the third quarter."
I shall then smile sweetly .. lightly brush my blonde hair over an ear ... and excuse myself to a bathroom break... knowing full well that on my return I shall be entirely omitted from any further participation in what by then ... judging from the posts here ... will be a very heated debate. icon_biggrin

[note to self: dial 911 if it gets ugly .. and hide the pistols]
countrygirl58
Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2014 9:00:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/22/2012
Posts: 275
You come to Arizona and you see the American Flag and the Arizona state flag in front of the communities out here. I know what flags fly's higher for me and that is the red/white/blue....
countrygirl58
Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2014 9:00:48 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/22/2012
Posts: 275
You come to Arizona and you see the American Flag and the Arizona state flag in front of the communities out here. I know what flags fly's higher for me and that is the red/white/blue....
Weavindreams
Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2014 10:03:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 4,947
Location: On the bluffs above the Mississippi River., United
Yes we ARE "all Americans" a FACT that ANY Confederate flag waving Southerner will readily STATE IF ASKED. However ANOTHER FACT is, that there are essentially FIVE regions to this nation; North, South, East, West and Mid West. Of those, only two, the South and the West have had distinctive cultures. The other three have historically been amalgams with no particular cultural identity. And, to portray that flag as a symbol of slavery and that alone is in no way different than equating blue jeans, Stetson hats and cowboy boots with the genocide of over 25 million people! Both regions have cultures that entailed far more than slavery in the South or the murdering of women and children in the West as "nits make lice". Taking such a narrow view is pointless and only serves to prolong the racism that has existed due to the policies imposed by William Stanton as revenge in the wake of that war. IF you TRULY want to END the division that occurred over MONEY and the difference between the loose Confederation of states that WAS this nation's government PRIOR to that war and the Republic that emerged in it's wake; then START with TOLERANCE! NOT, still more pointless divisiveness!

Due to the politely worded request of a lady, I have changed my sig.

Leigh65
Posted: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:05:56 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/3/2014
Posts: 80
Location: Atlanta, United States
I am from Georgia and so can speak to this. In fact, the bars and stars, or confederate battle flag, was not added to the Georgia flag until 1956. It was added to make a point against segregation. To me, the reason it was added and the time in history it was added makes it clear as to the message that flag was trying to send. Is flying that flag offensive? YES! Should it be banned? NO! I would rather allow people to fly all of the offensive flags that they want and preserve freedom of speech. If it offends you, don't look at it.
Ajax
Posted: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:30:42 PM

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Joined: 8/17/2013
Posts: 1,805
Location: Banging more than my head , United States
Leigh65 wrote:
I am from Georgia and so can speak to this. In fact, the bars and stars, or confederate battle flag, was not added to the Georgia flag until 1956. It was added to make a point against segregation. To me, the reason it was added and the time in history it was added makes it clear as to the message that flag was trying to send. Is flying that flag offensive? YES! Should it be banned? NO! I would rather allow people to fly all of the offensive flags that they want and preserve freedom of speech. If it offends you, don't look at it.
freedom of speech has been beat_deadhorse repeatedly in this thread. FYI, freedom of speech does not give you the right to say anything you want. Nor does it give you the right to terrorize people.


It's rather difficult not to look at when you pull open the doors to an establishment in say,,,, Macon Georgia and there are 20 flags hanging inside. Lfunny
Leigh65
Posted: Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:16:31 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/3/2014
Posts: 80
Location: Atlanta, United States
Ajax wrote:
freedom of speech has been beat_deadhorse repeatedly in this thread. FYI, freedom of speech does not give you the right to say anything you want. Nor does it give you the right to terrorize people.


It's rather difficult not to look at when you pull open the doors to an establishment in say,,,, Macon Georgia and there are 20 flags hanging inside. Lfunny


You are right, it does not give you the right to say ANYTHING you want but in my opinion it has to be pretty extreme to trample on that right. This thread started with a comment about that person in front of the White House. Again in my opinion, waving a flag in a demonstration should still fall under free speech protection. As far as the establishment that hangs the bars and stars flag, they aren't government buildings and nobody is forcing you to go inside. I have heard some make the argument that some songs that have repulsive language in them, even talking about killing cops for example, should be banned. That could be considered by some as inciting terrorism. As much as I hate those kinds of songs, I don't want their speech censored. I just don't listen to it. It is too slippery of a slope to start regulating what can and can't be said. Who decides that? The politicians who happen to be in power at the moment. NO THANKYOU!
krimexplorer
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:23:16 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

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Posts: 22
Location: United States
What do you think of when you see a Confederate Battle Flag ???
Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?

Something worse?

Now, what do you see when you look at the flag? What is actually on the flag?

The color Red? White? Blue? Thirteen stars?

Is that all? See anything else?

Look closer and take some time to actually think about what you are seeing. Examine every detail of the flag and it's design, because the layout of the contents of this flag actually portrays the true message the flag is sending.

And for the record... neither the design nor the content have anything to do with racism, slavery, hatred or white supremacy... or anything worse!

All the COLOR could be removed from this flag, leaving just the outline of the details, and the true message the design is sending could still be determined by anyone with a basic knowledge of history and an ounce of common sense.

.

First of all, this flag is NOT the "Confederate Flag." It is the "Battle Flag of Northern Virginia." This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on many of the other flags that were flown by the Confederate States. It is also the one most hated by those who are completely and totally ignorant of what it stands for.

So take another look at the flag and answer this very simple question : Do you see a big letter "X" anywhere on the flag? What if I were to lay that X down on its side like this? : Do you see it now? The X is formed by the big, blue bands which are outlined with white trim.

Now take another look at the flag. On this big "X" there are thirteen white stars. See them? Do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen original, united colonies from which the United States began. Each one of these colonies had its own system of self government... until the start of 'northern aggression' when the northern states began trying to usurp authority over the southern states. This was the main cause of the Civil War.

Point of fact : The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X... but in reality, the X lies on the stars, allowing them to shine through.

Now, a simple question : Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would sometimes ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a work page, or to put an X on a picture or word or other item that didn't belong in a group? That is the same concept this flag is designed around; the stars are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands are put on the thirteen stars to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be a part of the union with the northern states. In simpler terms, the message of flag's design is simply this... CROSS US OUT of your Union! The southern states withdrew from the union in a movement called "secession," which led to the Civil War.

That is the only message this flag is sending!

That is all there is to it!

It is just that simple!

If this flag actually represented slavery, hatred, white supremacy, or something worse, as so many biased and uneducated people so foolishly believe, then it's design would reflect that by incorporating images of those whom it stood against, and there would be a big X on their images.

But that is NOT what is on this flag!

And that is NOT the message this flag sends!

This flag is NOT racist! NEVER has been! NEVER will be!

And as I stated earlier, all that people need to have to be able to see and understand this obvious truth is a basic knowledge of history and an ounce of common sense!

krimexplorer
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:32:40 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

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Location: United States
I think Jean Luc Picard said it best, "History is always written from the view of the conquering people."

That is why if you study anything historical, or even today's news, you cannot always believe what you read, but need to study and research things.

Heresay will get you nowhere

"God is in the Detail"

- Ludwig Mies van der Rohe


3some
Monocle
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:37:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 286
The "What do you think when you see a Confederate flag" is at least 4 years old on the internet and no less condescending for its age. To claim a flag does not carry symbolism of history beyond its original intent is to be ignorant _of_ history (and there are no citations in that article that would lead one to believe the interpretation presented has any real historical veracity). The failings of the article are numerous, and any article that simply takes "the War of Northern Aggression" at face value is not objective history. The fact that the flag was adopted by the United Confederate Veterans, and came to symbolize, post-war, the 'confederate battle flag' for Southern veterans is ignored by this essay. The fact that many, if not most in the US - south and north alike - do not share the article's interpretation of the meaning or history of the flag shows that the flag has multiple meanings and current historical context.

The flag is not inherently racist, but is perceived as such by most of the country (and the world) because it's used today by racists to convey exactly that message. That's not everyone who wishes to use it, but it's the majority - or at least the loudest among - those who do.

"History is written by the Victors" is attributed to Winston Churchill, as opposed to Capt. Picard, and is more likely a truism that predates that use. I think that also can be used as a comment on your historical acccuracy, krimexplorer.
sprite
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:44:39 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,567
Location: My Tower, United States
krimexplorer wrote:
What do you think of when you see a Confederate Battle Flag ???
Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?

etc

But that is NOT what is on this flag!

And that is NOT the message this flag sends!

This flag is NOT racist! NEVER has been! NEVER will be!

And as I stated earlier, all that people need to have to be able to see and understand this obvious truth is a basic knowledge of history and an ounce of common sense!



while you're at it, take a look at this one, and tell me what you see.



Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:02:59 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,692
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
sprite wrote:


while you're at it, take a look at this one, and tell me what you see.





Okay, I was about to say something about how the words 'Ban' and 'burn' give me the willies and that people should, perhaps, reconsider their use...

Then I saw that^^^

Never mind.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Milik_Redman
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:11:19 PM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 3,692
Location: somewhere deep under the Earth, United States
alliebug69 wrote:
OK I am sure to offend someone, I didnt read all the posts, so some of my views may or may not have been expressed. I am from GA, so the confederate flag flies a lot around here on peoples private property. In most cases it is not flown out of hatred, but heritage. Southern Pride flows in the blood of the people down here, and is nothing more than a sign of the pride.


You know what, regardless of how I or anyone else feels about you or any private person displaying that flag, I will defend your right to do it. I will because I would rather live in a land that would allow people to express themselves in any way they chose, regardless of how others took it, or how offended they may be.
Only then will I be certain that I too will enjoy such freedom.
I would ask though, do you really believe those who rode under that flag would offer so tolerant a view to others?
Something to think about...



Ban it on public buildings and let a company fly it at their economic peril. People should be free do think what they will.

“It is a great thing to know your vices.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero




http://www.lushstories.com/stories/cheating/a-trans-atlantic-affair.aspx
Ajax
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:11:55 PM

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Posts: 1,805
Location: Banging more than my head , United States







Ajax
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:53:02 PM

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Ajax
Posted: Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:13:36 PM

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Location: Banging more than my head , United States



I do support these though :p need to get me a couple pair
Ajax
Posted: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:18:28 PM

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Plus wasn't it Alexander H. Stephens Vice Preisident of the Confederate Sates of America who declared in his Cornerstone speech that slavery was a natural condition for blacks and the foundation of the Confedracy? That the great truth is that the Negro is not equal to the white man ?

Now , today we have over 100 hate groups with that same view and wave that very same flag which holds so much Southern heritage. That's some heritage to hold on to, i'll tell ya that.


Yet, somewhere in this forum, lies a topic over pulling a decal off of a professional sports team's helmet and forcing them to change thier name because
it's viewed by some as a racial slur and the teams founding owner was a racist biggot. d'oh! . Ok !






alliebug69
Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 10:08:57 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 2,244
Location: In your dreams, United States
Ajax wrote:
Why did the State of Georgia adopt a new State Flag back in 2001?. To replace the the previous 1956- 2001 State flag. I guess they felt the need for change.






This is the Flag Georgia adopted in 2003, they cleaned up the 2001 Flag further. Very nice selection for a State Flag imo.


If you would reasearch, the NEW Georgia Flag is ALSO fashioned after a flag of the Confederate States of America.

I read every post in this thread and although I may disagree with a lot of it, it is your right to feel the way you do. That is what living in the US is about, freedom. You have the freedom to have your opinion, and I have the freedom to have mine. It doesnt matter what you or I think, about each others opinion. You have the right to dislike a flag that you feel is a sign of slavery, prejudice, or what ever you want. I have the right to honor the history and heritage that the same flag represents to me. We can throw words back and forth, and it is not going to matter. Who are we to say what right and what is wrong?

As a PROUD SOUTHERN girl, I can promise you one thing. If you think the people in the south will just lay down and let the stars and bars be banned, you had better alert the National Guard cause you will have a fight on your hands.

Weavindreams
Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:18:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 4,947
Location: On the bluffs above the Mississippi River., United
Ajax wrote:









That's one perspective. So. tell us, what war did YOU fight in? In MINE, I served with a LOT of proud Southerners who took RIGHTFUL pride in their cultural heritage. So, by your thinking, those same men insulted themselves? What part of THAT makes NO sense?

Due to the politely worded request of a lady, I have changed my sig.

Ajax
Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 1:38:12 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/17/2013
Posts: 1,805
Location: Banging more than my head , United States
alliebug69 wrote:


If you would reasearch, the NEW Georgia Flag is ALSO fashioned after a flag of the Confederate States of America.

I read every post in this thread and although I may disagree with a lot of it, it is your right to feel the way you do. That is what living in the US is about, freedom. You have the freedom to have your opinion, and I have the freedom to have mine. It doesnt matter what you or I think, about each others opinion. You have the right to dislike a flag that you feel is a sign of slavery, prejudice, or what ever you want. I have the right to honor the history and heritage that the same flag represents to me. We can throw words back and forth, and it is not going to matter. Who are we to say what right and what is wrong?

As a PROUD SOUTHERN girl, I can promise you one thing. If you think the people in the south will just lay down and let the stars and bars be banned, you had better alert the National Guard cause you will have a fight on your hands.
Not talkin about the Starts and bars here Allie . BUt tell it to the people who who had thier homes burned down and a noose tied around thier neck, or in the process of bring murdered while that flag was being waved in thier faces.



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