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Is it appropriate to PM sexual images to people you don't even know on LUSH? Options · View
JohnC
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:23:00 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
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Location: United States
Do you think just because you are a member of LUSH that it is "expected" that random people will send you sexually explicit pictures in PMs? Do you think that is appropriate or even "to be expected"?

Me? I think it shows complete lack of class and common sense. I think if you send people porn in a PM that you have not even talked to it shows that you are a complete jackass and don't respect others. I think this is even more so if their profile states CLEARLY that they are not interested in that type of thing and they are in a committed relationship.

What are YOUR thoughts on the matter? coffee

sirrobertstories
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:28:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 4/13/2013
Posts: 55
I basically agree with you, Sir. I just can't understand what makes some people think that is acceptable behaviour, didn't they learn some manners?


Sir Robert
My blog - Sir Robert's Stories
Shylass
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:38:19 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,591
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
If people send me porn, I know for a fact that they're not interested in me. They're looking for something I can't and won't give. It really upsets me to receive photos, including "arty" naked shots on my profile (especially if it's of females - I'm not a lesbian and I don't like looking).

If they ask me first, and listen to me when I say no, but still write back without any more offers of it, then I know I might have a new friend. sunny I like people who want to communicate to me as a person, not somebody who will stroke their virtual cock or fit the ideal they have in their hunt. I'm not here for that.


Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

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Dani
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:50:58 PM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,019
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
People see the content of this site, and forego really simple things like common decency/courtesy/sense.

If I don't ask for it, it means I don't want it. I've gotten unsolicited pics of nudie bits. It never goes over well. I used to be polite about stating that it's not something I want, but literally everyone who has ever done this to me has called me some sort of bitch or prude or both.

Like the nerve of me for wanting to have the choice to look at your dick or whatever else you feel a need to send me.

I've been rubbed the wrong way so many times on this issue that I'm pretty much indifferent to it. I delete it instantly, and if I'm in a bad enough mood I'll respond with a few choice words.

We're adults. We should be able to conduct ourselves as such.



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

TylerStark
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:53:49 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 1/2/2014
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas City, United States
I don't even have any naked pictures of myself, which sums up my opinion quite nicely. Don't do it.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 1:14:08 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 5,955
Location: In your dirty fantasies
I'm in a relationship too and of all the things that offend me, this isn't one of them.

Truth be told, I have been known to look at dicks that don't belong to my bf. For example, when you watch porn, it's kind of hard to avoid them.

Sending unsolicited dick pics on Lush vs sending unsolicited dick pics through company email or on a website about shoes or protein shakes would hit me differently. Because of the sexual nature of the site, I assume there will be some nudity and dicks flying around. You just have to account for the fact that not everyone has manners or bothers to read profiles.

If that's the extent of my interaction with them, meh. At worst it's tacky. If he's got a weird one, then it can be funny. All in all, just something to delete or have a laugh over. Not worth any stress for me.


BelleduJour
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 1:15:56 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/13/2011
Posts: 1,508
Location: Canada
Dani wrote:
People see the content of this site, and forego really simple things like common decency/courtesy/sense.


Exactly. Just because of the genre, doesn't mean one should check their manners at the door. It's one thing if we know each other and it's a whole other thing if we don't. I'm not very forgiving of random cold calling dick pics or videos from strangers. Personally, I see that kind of attention seeking as desperate and immature which are both very unattractive qualities.

dpw
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 1:46:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 2,721
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
JohnC wrote:
Do you think just because you are a member of LUSH that it is "expected" that random people will send you sexually explicit pictures in PMs? Do you think that is appropriate or even "to be expected"?

Me? I think it shows complete lack of class and common sense. I think if you send people porn in a PM that you have not even talked to it shows that you are a complete jackass and don't respect others. I think this is even more so if their profile states CLEARLY that they are not interested in that type of thing and they are in a committed relationship.

What are YOUR thoughts on the matter? coffee

Well I sat open mouthed when I read this, I was stunned. I had no idea that this went on and by the look of the replies it's not an isolated case.
So what would I do if it happened to me? I'd probably laugh and I'd wonder why they did it. However, I'm single and I've seen more than my share of genitalia in real life that a picture isn't going to impress me.
Why anybody would do it to a stranger is beyond me! It really doesn't make sense even an exhibitionist wants appreciation!
dontknow
CurlyGirly
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 1:52:16 PM

Rank: CurlyFries

Joined: 10/5/2012
Posts: 1,739
Location: United States
Dancing_Doll wrote:
I'm in a relationship too and of all the things that offend me, this isn't one of them.

Truth be told, I have been known to look at dicks that don't belong to my bf. For example, when you watch porn, it's kind of hard to avoid them.

Sending unsolicited dick pics on Lush vs sending unsolicited dick pics through company email or on a website about shoes or protein shakes would hit me differently. Because of the sexual nature of the site, I assume there will be some nudity and dicks flying around. You just have to account for the fact that not everyone has manners or bothers to read profiles.

If that's the extent of my interaction with them, meh. At worst it's tacky. If he's got a weird one, then it can be funny. All in all, just something to delete or have a laugh over. Not worth any stress for me.


This! thumbup

Honestly, after being on Lush for so long, it's all just part of the fodder. If you've sent me an unsolicited dick pic on Lush, your pic is now fair game. On more than one occasion, I've shared them with friends and had a laugh or two.

After being called a bitch or cunt many times after reprimanding the dick pic pushers, I don't even bother anymore. evil4 I do enjoy flashing the dick at friends, but that's just my crass nature. I also like to find out which friends received the same offending shot. Some of these guys cast a wide net.






Road2Nowhere
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:08:14 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 12/22/2013
Posts: 16
Location: Coventry, United Kingdom
As this is primarily a site to showcase writing I think it's pretty poor for people to PM dick pics without establishing some kind of rapport with someone first. Just having one appear in your messages must be pretty disturbing for new writers, not much of a welcome, is it?

Can you bar or block people on here? Perhaps that's the best way to send a message to itinerant cock-pic-senders, rather than get into the aggro of reprimanding and getting abuse back?
JohnC
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:09:38 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 5,031
Location: United States
Course correction... I was not specifically (or only) talking about "selfies". I am talking ANY unsolicited porn from other members that you have not even talked to. It seems folks are focusing on "selfie" pictures and that was not the only "porn" I was talking about.

But thank you all for your posts! :)

dpw
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:13:01 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 2,721
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
CurlyGirly wrote:

After being called a bitch or cunt many times after reprimanding the dick pic pushers

Now that disgusts me more than sending the pics, to say something like that because you've been rebuked is really inexcusable!
seeker4
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:23:05 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 2,822
Location: In the great, beautiful Cosmos, Canada
I used to have some naked selfies up but I just shared the album with friends and let them look if they wanted (they are offline now). I'm not going to send them to friends mailboxes, let alone send them unsolicited to folks I don't know. I don't work that way. Now, if I'm asked...

OTOH, I'm not at all averse to receiving them (from either men or women). If I'm not interested, I just delete 'em. If I am, I'll friend the person.thumbup

Not that I actually get any unsolicited ones, though I've had the odd one from friends.

Now I feel left out. crybaby


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LASARDaddy
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:36:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/22/2013
Posts: 571
Location: Windsor, United States
I agree!

If you just have to expose yourself, put them in an album and everyone can look at their leisure. Do not just assume that anyone gives a shit what you look like or what you like to look at. However, if you're a woman, do assume that I want to look. Any color, size, shape, whatever, as long as it's female. Well, human female anyway.

I love looking at women and as much of their skin as they'll show me. I'm a guy and I like watching porn so the pictures don't bother me. I don't pay much attention to guys though.

I do not send naked pictures. Well, I'm going to now because a few have asked me to but you'll never see them in my profile. I don't ask for pictures either. If you want to send them, go ahead I can always delete them, but I'll never ask. The ones there now are all from friends and I enjoy them. A couple are very special.

I do agree with Dani too. Many here lack things like courtesy, consideration, tolerance and respect. I have told people that they needed to go back and have mommy try the training thing again because she screwed up teaching them that the first time. That usually didn't go over well and I only did it as a last resort, but I have done it when pushed on very hard.

If you read my profile you'll discover that I totally believe in standing on your own feet. I am in total charge of how I feel, no one else in the universe. and you are for you too. I do not appreciate people who think they can decide what I should be. If they can't talk to me with respect, as a person and an equal first, fuck'em!

I love explaining that to politicians and religious leaders too because I think most of what they offer us is just a form of slavery and I detest that. I've done that in letters and to ones who stopped me on the street to share something with me. I do not swear, get upset or angry, I just calmly tell them like it's so obvious to me why are you so dumb you can't see it. violent1

Hasn't changed anything yet though. I've rewritten the old saw about, "Those who can do. Those who can't teach." I admire teachers. I taught engineering and have nothing but respect for those that care. My new one is, "Those who can; solve problems and make the world a better place to be. Those who can't; become politicians and religious leaders and screw it up." Needs a little work though, maybe I'll post it in the forum and ask for opinions.

ANYONE who responds with a criticism because you have an opinion, block them and report them. Anyone that calls you a "Cunt" because you have an opinion should be publicly flogged until they understand that they do not run the universe. NEVER BACK DOWN FROM YOUR BELIEFS!

FOR THE ADMINISTRATORS:
I think anyone who does that should be kicked off this site for a time. Do it again and it's forever. This is supposed to be a safe and enjoyable place to be. You have rigid restrictions about certain words so why not for certain attitudes? There is one about fighting or attacking and I think a comment like that is an assault. And I thank all of you for doing what is a thankless job. I appreciate it a lot.


dpw
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:37:52 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 2,721
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
JohnC wrote:
Course correction... I was not specifically (or only) talking about "selfies". I am talking ANY unsolicited porn from other members that you have not even talked to. It seems folks are focusing on "selfie" pictures and that was not the only "porn" I was talking about.

But thank you all for your posts! :)

With all the fake profiles I doubt if the pics are selfies.
HotBttmInBriefs
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:53:37 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/6/2013
Posts: 1,520
Location: United States
After reading all the responses, I can see both sides of it.

I think sometimes we focus on men as being the only culprits, and I'm sure they may be the major ones as men are more visually excited. But I get them from women too. In fact I got some for a woman last night who wasn't on my friend's list. The woman was hot and sent an accompanying message.

I would prefer to get them from someone on my friend's list, and think that is the best way to go if you are going to do it. Even then you should understand those on your friend's list and know who would appreciate that type of thing and who wouldn't. I try to at least find out or read their profiles. I think that is probably the biggest thing that many don't do. They don't even read the profiles of the people on their friend's list.

But at the same time I too have come to expect it as part of being here. I usually just delete them and go on. Or if it is a hot pic, I save it for later purposes. You know men and out spank banks.

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 3:00:50 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 5,955
Location: In your dirty fantasies
JohnC wrote:
Course correction... I was not specifically (or only) talking about "selfies". I am talking ANY unsolicited porn from other members that you have not even talked to. It seems folks are focusing on "selfie" pictures and that was not the only "porn" I was talking about.

But thank you all for your posts! :)


Like nudes and dirty pics on walls or porn pics PM'd?

Yeah, I get those a lot - I think some members do a mass PM instead of posting them individually on walls. I tend to just delete without opening though. Porn doesn't offend me, but those kinds of pics/gifs can be repetitive, especially if you've never talked to the person and it's just a random collection. I tend to just skip those messages.

When someone posts dirty things on my wall, I go off the assumption that they thought I might find it an erotic pic, aesthetically interesting or that they found it sexy and decided to share. I don't interpret it as stuff they personally want to do to me or that they're creeping on me or anything like that. Just sexy pics - like clicking on someone's Tumblr etc.

Again, because it's an erotic site and not Facebook for example, my expectations are set accordingly. I know there are some members that only want fluffy kittens and sparkly cute stuff on their wall - but it's an adult oriented environment so I figure porn shouldn't be all that offensive. I enjoy provocative pics, although admittedly some might not be to my taste, so if I don't like them, I just delete.








JohnC
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 3:49:50 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
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Location: United States
Dancing_Doll wrote:


Like nudes and dirty pics on walls or porn pics PM'd?

Yeah, I get those a lot - I think some members do a mass PM instead of posting them individually on walls. I tend to just delete without opening though. Porn doesn't offend me, but those kinds of pics/gifs can be repetitive, especially if you've never talked to the person and it's just a random collection. I tend to just skip those messages.

When someone posts dirty things on my wall, I go off the assumption that they thought I might find it an erotic pic, aesthetically interesting or that they found it sexy and decided to share. I don't interpret it as stuff they personally want to do to me or that they're creeping on me or anything like that. Just sexy pics - like clicking on someone's Tumblr etc.

Again, because it's an erotic site and not Facebook for example, my expectations are set accordingly. I know there are some members that only want fluffy kittens and sparkly cute stuff on their wall - but it's an adult oriented environment so I figure porn shouldn't be all that offensive. I enjoy provocative pics, although admittedly some might not be to my taste, so if I don't like them, I just delete.

I consider pictures posted on walls a different issue since friends do that. Nor is this an issue of a mass PM sent to a friends' list. This issue here is PMs containing porn sent to people you don't even know, or have even talked to. You pick a member that clearly states on their profile that they are not interested in that sort of thing and they are in a committed relationship where they ONLY want to see that person.... and you send them a PM with porn attached anyways.

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:02:10 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 5,955
Location: In your dirty fantasies
JohnC wrote:

I consider pictures posted on walls a different issue since friends do that. Nor is this an issue of a mass PM sent to a friends' list. This issue here is PMs containing porn sent to people you don't even know, or have even talked to. You pick a member that clearly states on their profile that they are not interested in that sort of thing and they are in a committed relationship where they ONLY want to see that person.... and you send them a PM with porn attached anyways.


There are oddballs all over the internet but they tend to pop up more on adult themed sites. For an anonymous PM like that, delete and block. It's the easiest fix if it's greatly upsetting to someone. There's also a function under 'settings' where only friends can send you messages. That will eliminate the problem if the person (or their online master) keeps tight control of their friend list.


Dani
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:05:02 PM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,019
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
JohnC wrote:

I consider pictures posted on walls a different issue since friends do that. Nor is this an issue of a mass PM sent to a friends' list. This issue here is PMs containing porn sent to people you don't even know, or have even talked to. You pick a member that clearly states on their profile that they are not interested in that sort of thing and they are in a committed relationship where they ONLY want to see that person.... and you send them a PM with porn attached anyways.


If you consider it inappropriate by your standards, then inappropriate.

It can be rude and off putting and beyond annoying at times. But when people know better, they do better.

As I said before, because of the nature of Lush, people get carried away. And they don't really consider how their actions may come off to others because they've got sex on the brain.

Just let them know it's inappropriate and it's something you don't appreciate. If they continue to do it after you've told them to stop, you can always block them and/or report them. If they take offense, that's their problem.





We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

JohnC
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:07:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 5,031
Location: United States
Dancing_Doll wrote:


There are oddballs all over the internet but they tend to pop up more on adult themed sites. For an anonymous PM like that, delete and block. It's the easiest fix if it's greatly upsetting to someone. There's also a function under 'settings' where only friends can send you messages. That will eliminate the problem if the person (or their online master) keeps tight control of their friend list.

Oh indeed, that is also true. But that was not the point of discussion. LOL What to DO about it is another thing. ;)

As for the block all who are not friends feature, I feel that in general tends to prevent good people from communicating and becoming friends. But that is just me.

The issue of keeping tight control over friends lists... again, another issue. ;)

Guest
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:07:28 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,343
I think it shows a lack of taste to send something explicit to someone you don't know. I personally only post tasteful images geared towards the person's bio on my friend's profiles...until I get to know them more. At that point, the images/gifs get naughtier, but I've seen some that cross from erotic into pure porn. I'm not sure how I feel about that. A VERY close OL friend, perhaps would get those, but just an acquaintance wouldn't
JohnC
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:08:18 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 5,031
Location: United States
Dani wrote:


If you consider it inappropriate by your standards, then inappropriate.

It can be rude and off putting and beyond annoying at times. But when people know better, they do better.

As I said before, because of the nature of Lush, people get carried away. And they don't really consider how their actions may come off to others because they've got sex on the brain.

Just let them know it's inappropriate and it's something you don't appreciate. If they continue to do it after you've told them to stop, you can always block them and/or report them. If they take offense, that's their problem.


I agree.

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:31:53 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 5,955
Location: In your dirty fantasies
JohnC wrote:

Oh indeed, that is also true. But that was not the point of discussion. LOL What to DO about it is another thing. ;)

As for the block all who are not friends feature, I feel that in general tends to prevent good people from communicating and becoming friends. But that is just me.

The issue of keeping tight control over friends lists... again, another issue. ;)


I think (and other girls can correct me if I'm wrong) the practice of sending porn images by PM to someone that's not even on their friend list is *probably* not all that common. I consider those outliers from the norm and I'm guessing most people will agree that it's tacky and a dumb move. I can't imagine someone outside that handful of oddballs saying "it's a great way to break the ice!" lol

Personally I don't find it upsetting, more just a nuisance and occasion for an eye roll. But if someone is genuinely bothered by this, such as in your case, I naturally go into problem solving mode so I wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the options available. :)


throbbingwetpussy
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:34:20 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 12/25/2013
Posts: 553
Location: United States
Yeah.... This one really burns my biscuit. Coupled with my screen name, it appears that all I should want to do is talk sex and wanna fuck.. Umm, that would be a big NO!! I came here initially just to read erotica - I'd much rather have my mind's eye stimulated rather than viewing the harsh robotics mechanics that most porn portrays in an effect to get my buzz and the bonus of perhaps meeting new MATURE like minded individuals can be a treat but those that accost you with their insufferable tirade of " Oh boy! I just discovered my cock - lets fuck!" can be very annoying, to say the least.

And unless someone has posted in their bio"...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IM ME ...I AM A HORNY DESPERATE WRETCH LIKENED TO A RABID SEX CRAZED ANIMAL!", I don't even think your introduction in a im should begin with " Gee, you're hot! You wanna fuck???" either! Both of these practices, to me, are very loathsome!

WHAT!.......THE!......FUCK?????? Are you a pubescent 9 year old who has just seen their first pair of naked tits?? I really think this behavior is childish, unwanted, undesirable, and I sincerely feel that the perpetrators should be banned!!

WHEW! Wow, that felt good! Sometimes a good rant is as good as an orgasm - well, almost!


MasterJonathan
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 5:35:27 PM

Rank: Gentleman Master

Joined: 3/6/2013
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Well John, as you know when I first make a friend, the first conversation we have is one to determine what kind of pics they like on their wall. I tell them what I like and I ask them what they like. This determines what I put on their wall and what I send in PM's or through email if that be the case.

To send random porn pics to anyone is stupid, inconsiderate, and shows a complete lack of decency, respect, and class.

Willy6941
Posted: Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:47:19 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 12/18/2007
Posts: 167
Location: United States
I have enjoyed the photos that appear on my Profile page that others have left there. I don't object to them, and in fact I welcome them. I figure that since I post stories about sex on a site that exists for that purpose, it's a good thing to see photos and videos depicting what I'm writing about.
Callisto
Posted: Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:18:47 PM

Rank: Moderator

Joined: 8/23/2010
Posts: 2,695
Location: Forever Damaged , United States
JohnC wrote:
Do you think just because you are a member of LUSH that it is "expected" that random people will send you sexually explicit pictures in PMs? Do you think that is appropriate or even "to be expected"?

Me? I think it shows complete lack of class and common sense. I think if you send people porn in a PM that you have not even talked to it shows that you are a complete jackass and don't respect others. I think this is even more so if their profile states CLEARLY that they are not interested in that type of thing and they are in a committed relationship.

What are YOUR thoughts on the matter? coffee


It's not expected, but it happens. I personally don't think it's a big deal. If I get a random PM with explicit images, I just delete the message and go on about my day. As for a profile clearly stating they aren't interested and are in a relationship; My profile mentions I'm in a relationship and that I'm not here for anything other than friendship, but it's a PM with explicit images, not a marriage proposal.

A lot of people don't read profiles, they don't care to. I think maybe some send out messages like that hoping to get a similar response back. I had a guy send me a a PM with an sexually explicit gif with the message " Wanna Play", I deleted the message. After a few days I got the same message from him to which I replied letting him know I didn't want to play and asked him to please not send me messages again. He apologized saying he was just checking to see if we might be interested in the same thing and that was that.
trinket
Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2014 8:25:13 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

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Posts: 9,951
Location: Nowhere near you, Australia
I get them fairly often and always have done. Even though it's an adult site, i think it's thoughtless and rude. My friends know I don't want full blown porn on my wall either. I've got nothing against porn, I like some of it, I just don't want to look at it all the time. In a PM, I received a close up cock pic and a very detailed 'story' of what this stranger would like to do to me. It wasn't the picture or the message on it's own, that annoyed me, I'd never heard of the person. I sent him off a few choice words, and next thing, 'I' was in trouble because he complained I had been rude to him. How DARE I! I'm still quite puzzled over that one. dontknow

JohnC
Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2014 8:51:12 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 5,031
Location: United States
trinket wrote:
I get them fairly often and always have done. Even though it's an adult site, i think it's thoughtless and rude. My friends know I don't want full blown porn on my wall either. I've got nothing against porn, I like some of it, I just don't want to look at it all the time. In a PM, I received a close up cock pic and a very detailed 'story' of what this stranger would like to do to me. It wasn't the picture or the message on it's own, that annoyed me, I'd never heard of the person. I sent him off a few choice words, and next thing, 'I' was in trouble because he complained I had been rude to him. How DARE I! I'm still quite puzzled over that one. dontknow

LOL Imagine that? dontknow

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