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DU...Why use Depleted Uranium for this (or anything else)? Options · View
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53:54 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
US government claims no harmful side effects of DU. That's one of the claims found on Wiki. Of course, to claim otherwise, opens up all governments (who have used it or allowed their troops to be around it) to massive tort action.

A 2007 study by Chemical Research in Toxicology similarly found depleted uranium particles to be cytotoxic and clastogenic to lung cells in particular.

It was first introduced on the battlefield during the Gulf war in 1990, and has been used in U.S. armor and munitions ever since. It was widely suspected as the culprit in the numerous cases of Gulf War syndrome. According to USA Today, soldiers reported becoming "unusually fatigued, and others said that their joints ached. They experienced headaches, rashes and hair loss, and their memories occasionally failed them. In some cases, the symptoms were severe enough to require hospitalization."

"In Fallujah the rate of leukemia is 38 times higher, the childhood cancer rate is 12 times higher, and breast cancer is 10 times more common than in populations in Egypt, Jordan, and Kuwait," researchers write. "Heightened levels of adult lymphoma and brain tumors were also reported. At 80 deaths out of every 1,000 births, the infant mortality rate in Fallujah is more than five times higher than in Egypt and Jordan, and eight times higher than in Kuwait."


Depleted uranium is very dense; at 19050 kg/m³, it is 1.67 times as dense as lead, only slightly less dense than tungsten and gold, and 84% as dense as osmium or iridium, which are the densest known substances under standard (i.e., Earth-surface) pressures. Thus a given mass of it has a smaller diameter than an equivalent lead projectile, with less aerodynamic drag and deeper penetration due to a higher pressure at point of impact. DU projectile ordnance is often incendiary because of its pyrophoric property.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:55:15 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
In a militaristic mindset - it's the gift that keeps on giving.

DU, consequently, is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass. *source: World Health Org

So, it's 40% less toxic than purified natural uranium, it's still 60% more toxic than anything else. And when you're breathing tonnes of it, which have been vaporized and mixed with the air, in the environment where you live, walk, exercise, exist...guess what you receive?

"Move along folks, nothing to see here."

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:58:03 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,067
Location: United States
When you kill people for a living, you want the best, hardest-hitting ammo you can get. Period. Let's look at it from this perspective:

Let's say you're a general officer in the army. It's your job to assess all the potential enemies the world has to offer, and try to prepare your army to defeat those other armies. George Patton once said, "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Your entire being is focused on finding new ways of making the other poor dumb bastards die for their countries. Those poor dumb bastards have tanks, they surround themselves with armor. In your mind, you envision rank upon rank of armor, hurling up the field toward your men. If your men don't have the proper tools to kill those tanks, they WILL die. You'll know they've died, and you'll KNOW that it was your fault. You failed them and they died because you failed them. All the experts have assured you that these new "depleted uranium" projectiles are perfectly safe, and even if they DO pose some slight risk, that risk won't actually show up until long after the battle has been fought. This battle may mean life or death - not just for you and your men, but for your country as well. What would you rather?

Properly equip your men to handle the threats they may face?

Improperly equip your men, have them be killed, and still have to face the enemy again and again?

What would your decision be? The clock is ticking...

WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:03:04 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
In the first war, the American Armed forces and the coalition were fighting the Iraqi army (Its Air Force grounded in 48 hours and it had no Navy to speak of) and they didn't have DU to utilize. Plus, Iraq had already waged a near decade long war with Iran, so...they were pretty much sitting ducks, especially after 5 weeks of air bombardment. That was apparent almost immediately at the start of the ground/tank campaign with thousands surrendering.

In this last debacle, neither their air force nor navy existed. They hadn't upgraded their war gear in nearly 13 years and they weren't using DU to fire back at America or it's, ahem...coalition of the willing.

Hell, we had nukes, why didn't we just obliterate the entire country. That's called hardest hitting ammo.

Using DU is right there with using chemical weapons or biologicals, imo. Not only are you eviscerating immediately the resistance/enemy, but the vaporized uranium goes on to poison your own troops, their troops, their civilians...basically, anyone who breathes the shit...for a very long time. Longer than any generals or troops will even live once hostilities end.

I suppose it beats burying the stuff in Yucca Mountain.





If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Jillicious
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:14:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2009
Posts: 1,292
Location: United States
The thing that really chaps my ass is that it isn't really depleted. The term "Depleted Uranium" is a misnomer. Nuclear waste is not actually waste. There is so much energy left in that uranium and we are squandering it.

So not only are we throwing our energy potential at the Iraqis we are also poisoning them. RAAAGE!
SixtyMinuteMan
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:03:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 6/6/2010
Posts: 51
Location: San Diego
What's going to be amusing to our jaded, cynical old hearts is twenty years from now when the US tanks use railguns and a potential enemy has a significant enough nuclear program to have depleted uranium rounds, and we start whining about how they're firing poisonous radiation at us and how that violates the Geneva Convention.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:07:51 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
SixtyMinuteMan wrote:
What's going to be amusing to our jaded, cynical old hearts is twenty years from now when the US tanks use railguns and a potential enemy has a significant enough nuclear program to have depleted uranium rounds, and we start whining about how they're firing poisonous radiation at us and how that violates the Geneva Convention.


What I'm curious to know...SMM, is whether those enemy DU rounds will penetrate the DU 'tubs' of armament which currently surround our tank crews and those flyboys in the Warthogs. Hopefully by then, our space based weapons platforms will hold the upper hand.

Humankind and our constant search for higher ground and more lethal weaponry. Gotta love it.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
SixtyMinuteMan
Posted: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:09:12 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 6/6/2010
Posts: 51
Location: San Diego
Wow, was that a long sentence. There seems to be a direct correlation between the amount of wine I've had over an evening and my ability to make my thoughts coherent. Maybe I can find the perfect ratio and write Molly Bloom's Soliloquy
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:50:23 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,212
Location: Cakeland, United States
This video starts getting really hot around 3:40 into it, although the first part is worth watching too. Not only have we turned large swaths of Iraq, Afghanistan and Serbia/Kosovo into a wasteland, we've given our own soldiers a horrifying death sentence.

This is a must watch video, if you plan to argue FOR the continued use of DU armaments.



350-375 tons in the first Gulf War in 1991

Several hundred tons in the Bosnian conflict

1000 tons in Afghanistan in 2002

2400 tons in Iraq in 2003

518,000 Gulf-era vets in 2004 (from both Gulf 1 and Gulf 2 wars) were on medical disability...many suspected from DU exposure. Although the VA won't agree.

One pound of DU has a 4.5 billion year half life at the end of that time frame there is only 1/2 pound of DU left with another 4.5 billion year half life, and so forth. All that vaporized DU dust from all of that ordnance above - will eventually find its way all over the globe.

http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/radiationtypes.html

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
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