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Rank: Matriarch
Joined: 12/6/2006
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How do you lean?
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nicola wrote:How do you lean? A little to the left in these pants...
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That's an interesting question, and I admit I had to look up pragmatism to understand exactly what it means.
I'm not much of an idealist. I have a hard time seeing the point of arguing or rooting for things that just aren't realistic; for things that are some fantasy of a perfect world that doesn't and will not exist. I think believing in ideals, and having hope that they will come true, only sets you up for disappointment later- and then you're a sucker for having believed that those things were really possible. It's best- for me anyway- to keep my eyes open and see what's real, and only expect minimum things out of people and life. Both are mostly disappointing. You can't count on kindness or breaks, you have to be strong and provide your own strength instead of expecting it from life.
And when life surprises you, and when people turn out to be really great, that's a bonus, but you can't go around expecting it. That's just a recipe for disappointment and bitterness- feeling let down all the time like that. The opposite of that seems like idealism, where you expect great things, and maybe even fight for them- and lose most of the time. I'm glad there are idealists, I think that the really great developments that happen rarely are due to those people. But it's a tough road- as is life. I try to protect myself as much as I can. I think that makes me pragmatic.
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LadyX wrote:
And when life surprises you, and when people turn out to be really great, that's a bonus, but you can't go around expecting it. That's just a recipe for disappointment and bitterness- feeling let down all the time like that. The opposite of that seems like idealism, where you expect great things, and maybe even fight for them- and lose most of the time. I'm glad there are idealists, I think that the really great developments that happen rarely are due to those people. But it's a tough road- as is life. I try to protect myself as much as I can. I think that makes me pragmatic.
 Couldn't say it any better, LadyX.
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Rank: Lurker
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I'd like to think I'm an idealist but, I'm probably more of a pragmatist.
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Rank: Lurker
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 Walks down the middle of the road. Mr. Mayagi will not be pleased. LOL -MV
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Rank: Thread Mediator
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Are all judgmental people idealists? In that you have to conform to their idea of what's right otherwise you're the one that's fucked up? Seems to me, like Rocco says, people who think a little bit and try to understand other points of view might be more pragmatist.
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LadyX wrote:Are all judgmental people idealists? In that you have to conform to their idea of what's right otherwise you're the one that's fucked up? No, those people are called conservatives. Just kidding conservatives I'm just having a laugh, don't start tossing tea of a boat.
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Rank: Alpha Blonde
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Can't an idealist be a bit of a dreamer (in a good way)? Think of all those great risks and adventures you've taken in life that seemed to make no logical sense at the time but ended up resulting in the greatest of thrills and the most prized of memories to reflect back on. The concept of "Love" is, in itself, one of the greatest idealistic concepts we can ever conceive of! I still try to keep a bit of idealism about me, but as I get older I tend to lean towards pragmatism to a much greater degree. If I lose all sense of idealism, then I feel like I'd just become somewhat of a jaded and disillusioned person, so I try to suspend logic and judgment when I can to retain a bit of the magic...
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MrNudiePants wrote:nicola wrote:How do you lean? A little to the left in these pants...  But seriously. Life's little adventure will have each of us crossing this line many times for many reasons. Indeed, you can have "pragmatic idealists" and "idealistic pragmatists". The environment you are in will define your view of pragmatism. The things you wish for or want to fight for may make you an idealist in your environment, however, in another persons shoes/environment your idealism may be the norm thereby making you a pragmatist in the other persons eyes. Confused yet? Good, now, ideally, you'd like to blame me for giving you a head-ache, but the pragmatist in you will blame Nicola for starting this thread  Me? In football I am an idealist - wanted England to do better; in general, I'd ideally like Chef to give me some one-on-one tutoring whilst the wife isn't looking. In truth, I have to be a pragmatist - sorry Chef!
"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element "If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
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Pragmatism is what runs the universe,nothing is ideal here,because it doesn't need to be.The evolution of species is the the best example of Pragmatism.Nature has a rule- shed off whatever is impractical,grow only what has useful practical consequences.Idealism is very hard to achieve so it is harder to maintain.No matter what,you cannot achieve a mechanism with 100% efficiency.
Let's put a smile on that face.
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mercianknight wrote:MrNudiePants wrote:nicola wrote:How do you lean? A little to the left in these pants... But seriously. Life's little adventure will have each of us crossing this line many times for many reasons. Indeed, you can have "pragmatic idealists" and "idealistic pragmatists". The environment you are in will define your view of pragmatism. The things you wish for or want to fight for may make you an idealist in your environment, however, in another persons shoes/environment your idealism may be the norm thereby making you a pragmatist in the other persons eyes. Confused yet? Good, now, ideally, you'd like to blame me for giving you a head-ache, but the pragmatist in you will blame Nicola for starting this thread Me? In football I am an idealist - wanted England to do better; in general, I'd ideally like Chef to give me some one-on-one tutoring whilst the wife isn't looking. In truth, I have to be a pragmatist - sorry Chef! S'quite alright. I understand perfectly. 
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Rank: Lurker
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well nicola, you stumped me, gonna have to get "Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics" and I'll get back to you.
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The idealistic man imagines the intelligent, classy and sophisticated woman of his dreams while wanking pragmatically in front of a picture of Megan Fox.
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I guess, if i had to choose, i'd say idealiest. i know it's an unrealistic view, but i really strive toward wanting the world to be the way it SHOULD be, wanting people to set an example of how they should treat each other. even if we have differing veiws we should all do our best to settle them peacefully, to take care of those who have trouble taking care of themselve, to promote the best in people. the arts should be as important as business or the military and people with those leanings should be nurtured. everyone should have a place to live, food to eat, the chance to be happy - yeah, it sounds a little like socialism or communism or whatever (which, in their idealogical forms actually have a lot to be said for them). i want to see us live up to our potential, put aside greed and jealousy and anger and violence - yeah, i guess in a way i'm a hippie chick, and i know it's all a pipe dream, and i certainly can't live up to those ideals myself, let alone expect anyone else to, but if we all just tried to, i think it would be a better world.
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I started out like so many as an idealist, I believed that anything was possible, anything could be changed or improved. I could accomplish all of the ideals I had set for my life. After a half century of life on this blue marble I have realized that life can be what you make it, but anything is not always possible. There are so many variables in life that you have to realisticly look at what you are capable of doing. I accomplished several of the goals I had set for my life, but honestly and realisticly it took and incredible amount of real work. I now am pragmatic about my idealism and willing to be a little more conservative of the windmills I try to topple. So does this make me an idealistc pragmatist or a pragmatic idealist? Hmmmm Yeah I know, deep enough to drown in
God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time - Robin Williams.
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