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Families of donors misled on death: MDsWhere do you stand on being an organ donor? Quote:A group of ICU doctors is calling for a moratorium on harvesting transplant organs from people whose hearts have stopped but are not yet brain dead, reviving controversy around a process that is becoming increasingly important to the transplant system.
Family members are essentially being misled into believing patients are dead when they may not be, and in some rare cases people’s hearts could actually start beating again after being silent for the required two to five minutes, the physicians say. Quote:“I think that we’re being less than entirely honest about when the patient is truly dead,” he said in an interview. “We’re not trying to deny the parent the choice to donate … The point we’re making is ‘what if they’re almost dead and we’re not sure if they’re dead, and it’s not at the point of irreversibility yet?’ ” Quote:There is also the question of whether cardiac death can really be defined as end of life, said Dr. Joffe. Loss of blood circulation due to a non-beating heart is generally considered irreversible only if CPR could not restart the heart, the letter says. With donation after cardiac death, the decision is made to not try to revive the heart. Also, brain death does not occur until as long as 15 minutes after the heart has stopped, meaning some patients declared heart dead could still have brain functions, the doctors argue.
Dr. Chip Doig, a University of Calgary critical care professor who is skeptical about the DCD concept, noted that death is declared anywhere from 75 seconds to 10 minutes after the heart stops, depending on the jurisdiction.
“Dead in Cleveland should be the same as dead in Calgary and dead in Brussels,” he said.
The article also suggests that intensive-care physicians caring for severely ill patients are in a potential conflict of interest. Knowing well that a donated organ could save someone else’s life, they might, unconsciously at least, decide prematurely to withdraw life support, which leads to cardiac death and organ removal, the authors argue.
The decision to unplug patients is not always a straightforward one; Dr. Doig said he has seen a number of cases where some of the treating doctors recommended patients be removed from life support — which would have led to cardiac death — but the individuals were kept hooked up and eventually recovered. Imagine being declared dead and having your organs harvested, all while your brain is still alive, and active...
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There is only one way to find out for sure.
But if my heart is stopped and has not been restarted then why should I care? Should I put off helping others because a few electrical synapses in my brain are still firing?
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i am a donor .but this has given me thoughts , if my heart stopped i would like to give everything except my eyes as i want to see into the next world , my hub says i silly but it how i feel . i would rather be dead then kept alive by a machine having family sitting there day in day out wondering when to turn it off . i dont think it fair on the families
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I will give up my organs if anyone wants them. I'm not selfish and even if I was not totally dead and my brain is still alive, who cares? In that state I would want to be dead faster anyways so I say go for it!
Getting all prickly about this one is kinda lame. Even if you could recover what kind of life can you really lead, no?
xx B.
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When I was a kid I heard/read that an organ donor was on the chopping block since he was "presumed" deceased.
As they were about to extract his eyes, he came back, and felt excruciating pain. (Yeah, no shit.)
With the movie "Coma," and that story, I will never ever be able to donate. Transplant? I got two kidneys, I am alive and you need one, then yes. But if I can't make that decision before anesthesia, and I have to count on numb nuts to assess my status, ummmmm, NO.
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If my heart was out long enough for me to be declared dead....well lets just say I'm not too sure I'd want my brain back in the condition it would be left in.
I'm a donor, not only on my licence but I actually signed up with the Australian Organ Donor Registry because I just know if I died my family would try to fight to keep all my innards. They're just kooky that way.
XX
BB
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i think yes the laws about when to declare dead someone should be the same and none changeable no matter where you are, but in reality who really wants to be a in vegetable state because their family cant make the decision to unplug you. i prefer not making my family go trough that so me as BB i make sure everyone knows that im an organ donor so its me the one making the decision if something like that ever happens.
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Dancing_Doll wrote:Your brain may be firing, but it doesn't mean you are conscious or have cognitive awareness of anything... and especially not of your organs being harvested.
I have no issue or concern with being an organ donor. Totally agree 
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My family has donated the entire body (cadaver). my grandpa was a Dr, and this has been our way of giving back. I fully intend to do the same. the college we have dealt with has made it very nice. they pay for the cremation when they are done and we have had burial services for just the family members when we buried the ashes, more of a celebration of their lives because it is about 6 months later. we had memorial service for friends ect immediately after. I like to think that although the student wo uses my body may not be the one who cures cancer, if he/she learns enough from my body to help someone else then i have done something right to balance the many wrongs i have done. that being said let me also say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fill out a living will. we do not know what the future holds and this allows your wishes to be (legally) carried out in the unhappy event of an accident! my next tattoo is a yellow DNR across my heart!
Who would have guessed that my little tale, the very First one I ever submitted to Lush would be read by so many? It shocks me a little to realize that it has now served over 20,000! Charge NurseThank you so very much to those who have read it!
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naughtynurse wrote:My family has donated the entire body (cadaver). my grandpa was a Dr, and this has been our way of giving back. I fully intend to do the same. the college we have dealt with has made it very nice. they pay for the cremation when they are done and we have had burial services for just the family members when we buried the ashes, more of a celebration of their lives because it is about 6 months later. we had memorial service for friends ect immediately after. I like to think that although the student wo uses my body may not be the one who cures cancer, if he/she learns enough from my body to help someone else then i have done something right to balance the many wrongs i have done.
that being said let me also say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fill out a living will. we do not know what the future holds and this allows your wishes to be (legally) carried out in the unhappy event of an accident!
my next tattoo is a yellow DNR across my heart! Firstly I have not put myself down for the donor scheme as I'm obese, diabetic, get gout and who knows what else so I don't think my parts would be of any use to anyone. Secondly I renewed my will and made enquiries with the solicitor re pulling the plug if I end up a vegetable and he said that it is not worth the paper it is written on. If I'm sent to say a Catholic hospital there is no way they would pull the plug on me no matter what my wishes were. It depends on the doctor's beliefs more than anything else so I don't think the DNR tat will make much difference.
"Hey, don't knock masturbation! It's sex with someone I love." Woody Allen"I am willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." Samuel Goldwyn
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tubby1961 wrote:
Firstly I have not put myself down for the donor scheme as I'm obese, diabetic, get gout and who knows what else so I don't think my parts would be of any use to anyone.
Secondly I renewed my will and made enquiries with the solicitor re pulling the plug if I end up a vegetable and he said that it is not worth the paper it is written on. If I'm sent to say a Catholic hospital there is no way they would pull the plug on me no matter what my wishes were. It depends on the doctor's beliefs more than anything else so I don't think the DNR tat will make much difference.
addressing the first: depending on what you are donating it is still valuable. the whole body donation that i am refering to does not matter what size/shape you are in. additionally skin donations are among the various organ donations that are not affected by DM.(yes skin is an organ, in fact it is the largest organ in the body) by not becomeing a donar you no longer make it an option. If you dont wish to donate so be it, that is your perrogative. However, just say 'i choose not to be a donor' not 'i cant'. second issue. this can be true of a DNR. In the state of FL it must be among other things printed on the correct shade of yellow paper to count! However, advance directives include so much more then merely a DNR. (a dnr is an advanced directive, but not all advanced directives are dnr's) they can include durable power of attorney and living wills. to many times i have seen victims of accidents whose children instead of spending the time coming together as a family to help each other through a tough time, fight over what should be done with the family member. not all desicions to regarding your health are as black and white as merely pulling a plug! what kind of measures do you want done when you are no longer able to make those desicions for yourself? do you want to be intubated and breath only with the assistance of a vent? what about a gtube if you are refusing to eat? a supra pubic cath inserted for your urine. being a vegatable is among the least of my fears. i know my family would agree then over what i want(although i have seen enough families fight to make me very sad!) but if i were suffering from an unimaginable existance where i am stuck inside a body that is being preserved merely because we can, i hope someone is kind enough not to put me through more pain and trauma.
Who would have guessed that my little tale, the very First one I ever submitted to Lush would be read by so many? It shocks me a little to realize that it has now served over 20,000! Charge NurseThank you so very much to those who have read it!
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cokeheadbarbie wrote:I will give up my organs if anyone wants them. I'm not selfish and even if I was not totally dead and my brain is still alive, who cares? In that state I would want to be dead faster anyways so I say go for it!
Getting all prickly about this one is kinda lame. Even if you could recover what kind of life can you really lead, no?
xx B. I'm with you, quality of life is worth more than just living.
Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self. ~ Cyril Connolly ~ Stories and Poems I have posted http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/rodeo-to-remember.aspxhttp://www.lushstories.com/stories/voyeur/shower-time.aspxhttp://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/epiphany-of-you-and-me.aspxhttp://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/who-is-waiting-in-my-workshop.aspxhttp://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/real-freedom-real-love.aspx
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If you heart has stopped, the oxygen stops flowing to your brain, so even if they do revive your heart, you will be a vegetable.
I put organ donor on my card because if I'm dead, I don't need those organs anymore, someone else would need them more than i do. I can't use my organs while I'm buried in the ground.
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naughtynurse Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51:05 AM
Rank: Forum Guru
Joined: 4/15/2011
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Location: bending over some lucky patient
tubby1961 wrote:
Firstly I have not put myself down for the donor scheme as I'm obese, diabetic, get gout and who knows what else so I don't think my parts would be of any use to anyone.
Secondly I renewed my will and made enquiries with the solicitor re pulling the plug if I end up a vegetable and he said that it is not worth the paper it is written on. If I'm sent to say a Catholic hospital there is no way they would pull the plug on me no matter what my wishes were. It depends on the doctor's beliefs more than anything else so I don't think the DNR tat will make much difference.
addressing the first: depending on what you are donating it is still valuable. the whole body donation that i am refering to does not matter what size/shape you are in. additionally skin donations are among the various organ donations that are not affected by DM.(yes skin is an organ, in fact it is the largest organ in the body) by not becomeing a donar you no longer make it an option. If you dont wish to donate so be it, that is your perrogative. However, just say 'i choose not to be a donor' not 'i cant'.
second issue. this can be true of a DNR. In the state of FL it must be among other things printed on the correct shade of yellow paper to count! However, advance directives include so much more then merely a DNR. (a dnr is an advanced directive, but not all advanced directives are dnr's) they can include durable power of attorney and living wills. to many times i have seen victims of accidents whose children instead of spending the time coming together as a family to help each other through a tough time, fight over what should be done with the family member. not all desicions to regarding your health are as black and white as merely pulling a plug! what kind of measures do you want done when you are no longer able to make those desicions for yourself? do you want to be intubated and breath only with the assistance of a vent? what about a gtube if you are refusing to eat? a supra pubic cath inserted for your urine. being a vegatable is among the least of my fears. i know my family would agree then over what i want(although i have seen enough families fight to make me very sad!) but if i were suffering from an unimaginable existance where i am stuck inside a body that is being preserved merely because we can, i hope someone is kind enough not to put me through more pain and trauma.
Dianna
Naughty Nurse (Dianna) says just about everything I have in mind.YES, I'm a 100% Organ Donner and my entirefamily knos that - heck, when I'm "gone" nothing of my physical being will be needed for me.
In lifetime, I have volunteered for many medical studies as an aid to develop cures for human infifmities. I urge everyone to donate asmuch of one's body as possible; let your entire family know your wishes NOW!
Gramps
The quiet and always horny old guy in Sunny Florida USA
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@ gramps im glad ur family knows but take the time for a living will! i have seen to many families struggle with this because one person desnt want something. in one instance the family member was my age(sad in and of itself) the person wanted to be allowed to die if nessecary. the mother was granted POA by the court. because he did not have a DNR on file and his mother wished to keep him around, we had to do heroic measures: ie cpr, intubate, vent ect. sadly although he was unable to talk he was coherent. he was in much pain and whenever his mother would visit, he would close his eyes and refuse to look at her.(would squeeze our hands ectera when asked to questions, but would ignore his mother) i had been caring for him for sometime and had know his wishes before he got to this state. he also thought his mother understood. she kept him long past when he wanted to go. the rest of the family was upset they wanted him to be able to go with his next(frequent) heart attack or stroke. as a result the family was divided and instead of supporting each other, merely argued. PLEASE PLEASE FOR YOURS AND YOUR FAMILIES SAKE HAVE ADVANCED DIRECTIVES!
Who would have guessed that my little tale, the very First one I ever submitted to Lush would be read by so many? It shocks me a little to realize that it has now served over 20,000! Charge NurseThank you so very much to those who have read it!
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sorry this is kinda my soap box....
Who would have guessed that my little tale, the very First one I ever submitted to Lush would be read by so many? It shocks me a little to realize that it has now served over 20,000! Charge NurseThank you so very much to those who have read it!
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My sons life was saved by an organ donor at 6 weeks old.
I have always been a donor but after that my daughter at age 4 also told me she wanted to be as well. It is down to personel choice and some people can't get their heads around being chopped up, that is their desicion and we should respect it.
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Yes, I am an organ donor. What is there to think twice about?
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for sure
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Absolutely. If my life is clinically over, I want to give someone and their families a glimpse of hope.
Tracy AmesErotic Word Slinger & Smarty Pants InterracialErotica.net ~ My Website Rants & Rambles ~ My Youtube Channel “Writing is a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia.” E. L. Doctorow
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Yes, I am. My cousin was 21 when she received a heart transplant. We would have lost her without it. If my organs are useless to me but can save someone else, I say ' go for it'.
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Agree totally.
If a person is prepared to accept an organ donation, then surely (regardless of 'what ifs') then a person should be prepared to donate?
Sadly (or possibly, fortunately), none of us knows what could be round the corner.
... sorry...not meant to sound so depressing!
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My brain quit firing long ago...take what you want. :-)
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ghost_writer wrote:My brain quit firing long ago...take what you want. :-) Lol
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I am an Organ and body donor. I have no use for the parts after the 'car' has died.
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Hey - I'm an organ donor ...and if they can resuscitate any parts after I have used them; be my guest - My brain would be the best organ to receive on my death as it remains unused 
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