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When is Assassination Justified? Is it Ever? Options · View
tomlando
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 6:47:46 AM

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Location: Orlando
Keeping this short, Is assignation justified in some cases? Most definitely if it is saving the lives of innocent people. I am pleased at the outcome of the raid, not 'happy' or 'joyful' over a death. I am happy that he will no longer be able to plan harm to others.
Rembacher
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:14:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,101
wolverine15 wrote:
And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death - Leviticus 24:17


If you use this as justification to kill a man, you must believe that the person being killed is worth losing your own life in order to get rid of. Since by killing them, you have now been the one to kill a man, and deserve death. Any attempt to justify it is hypocritical, since the verse clearly says "any man," not just those who have murdered thousands. In that case, the suicide bombers probably have it right, as they provide themselves with the death they deserve, and stop someone else from having to keep the chain of retribution going. Though in reality, we find someone else to attack in their absence.
lafayettemister
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:06:46 AM

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Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,345
Location: Alabama, United States
MissyLuvsYa wrote:
Assassination? It all depends upon who it is.

Should Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedung and Pol Pot been assassinated? Would it have been morally right to take them out before they murdered a few hundred million people?

Osama Bin Laden received justice at the end of a bullet from a US Navy Seal.

President Obama made the best decision in his entire presidency on giving the go ahead order.

Is war a "racket?" Everything is a racket. Computer software is a racket! The insurance industry is a racket! The music industry is a racket! The list goes on and on!

There are small wars and big wars. There always will be. The only way to handle it is to be the biggest bad ass possible.

Amazing how the whiny wimps scream about war and military in a nation of free speech paid for by the blood of those brave enough to die in order to give them that freedom.

Those terrorists hate liberal westerners just as much as they hate conservative westerners. Their goal is to destroy western civilization. And they are willing to die in order to do so. Are you willing to kill and die to defend freedom, democracy, your family and your neighbors...your children?


Well said.

As someone mentioned before, assassination is never justified becuase it is murder. So murder or killing someone is never justified ever? At all? I don't think speaking in certainties is every a good idea. Never say never. A man breaks into your home and is going to hurt, maim, rape, or kill you and/or your children.... is murder justified then? Life isn't always neat and clean or black and white. There are lots of shades of gray.

Lumping Bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao in with the likes of the Kennedys, Reagan, Lincoln, Ghandi doesn't work. The latter never targeted and killed innocent thousands. I know there are two sides to every story, but no one can say that JFK was equally monstrous as OBL.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
SIL50
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:12:38 PM

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Since someone besides Cassidy brought up Biblical verse read thisIn Exodus 20:13 we have the Fifth Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Take a good look at that word “Kill”. In the Hebrew Manuscript the word is “Ratsach” which means: Murder; ie - to Murder, a Murderer; to dash to pieces. Thus, Exodus 20:13 Actually reads “Thou Shalt Not MURDER”. Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”

This was a war time action directed against an enemy combatent.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:31:24 PM

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Joined: 2/17/2010
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SIL50 wrote:
Since someone besides Cassidy brought up Biblical verse read thisIn Exodus 20:13 we have the Fifth Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Take a good look at that word “Kill”. In the Hebrew Manuscript the word is “Ratsach” which means: Murder; ie - to Murder, a Murderer; to dash to pieces. Thus, Exodus 20:13 Actually reads “Thou Shalt Not MURDER”. Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”

This was a war time action directed against an enemy combatent.


Yep, if you take out the biblical quotes, that is exactly what al-Qaeda and Jihadists thought that Islam was justifying as well.

"Destroy the wicked people" and "Make war on them until you have wiped them out" and "take vengeance" and "Completely destroy then as your God commanded you"... Uhmm...Anyone see a commonality there? So who determines who these "wicked people" are?

If you're looking at religious texts to justify a cause, it's easy enough to find the semantic loopholes to alleviate the conscience... regardless of whatever religion you happen to adhere to.

Edit: And let's assume that people understand that a radical fringe group didn't just wake up one day and say "we hate America's freedom and democracy, let's attack them"...



WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:49:13 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,216
Location: Cakeland, United States
SIL50 wrote:
Assination: Murder committed by a perpetrator without the personal provocation of the victim, who is usually a government official. Don't think Bin Laden fell under the terms of the definition. His taking down was no different than that of any other combatent. He declared war on the US. He recieved justice carried out by the skilled operators of Team Six.


This is the most sensible post in this thread.

Bin Laden reaped what he sowed. Live by the sword, etc...

I have no problems personally nor morally with him being removed from the land of the breathing. And, I have worn my wimpy and whiny badge of liberal pacifism with pride, since 1973 and the fall of Saigon.

War is a racket. Most any man or woman who has ever felt like cannon fodder after serving in the armed forces, recognizes this. Eisenhower did, and so did Smedley Butler -- before Ike.

The music, insurance, film-making industries are rackets as well - but even the peripheral goals in those rackets, do not include murder, maiming and general mayhem (collateral damage).

Congratulations to those who felt it necessary to hoop and holler Monday night. Hats off to our major media for rushing to the scene of ground zero and the white house to show the world that there are some people in America who are just as fucking wrong to celebrate the death of an asshole as those who were shown dancing and celebrating the fall of the twin towers in 2001.

You folks really made the rest of us look exceptional to the rest of the world. To me, it looked like a group of people who can't control their hatred and confuse it with uber patriotism. It was not classy at all. I'm not the only person in America who feels this way. Several of my conservative friends were embarrassed the other night, too.

'Course, they are probably wimps and whiners too. If so, I'm in good company.

Why don't you celebratory patriots run down to your nearest enlistment office and volunteer to go spend some time in the meat grinders which your leaders wish to dump your cannon fodder asses into. Preemptively.

Then tell us how you feel about it...a few years after you've come home missing a limb or after having witnessed the horrors of war, up close and personal. Breath some DU, get some innnocent blood on your khakis. Kill some 'bad guys' for real instead of inside Call of Duty 4.

Your credibility needs some polishing.



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:32:50 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 474,002
It should be noted that most of those people were also College kids, at least in the D.C. Area. But yeah, I was a little twitchy over the whole celebrating his death. I mean, I'm as happy as any other American that he's dead, but the celebrating was a bit odd. Hate is an emotion that compromises logic and clear thinking, but were we celebrating the death of one man? or the fact that we eliminated a monster and may have just dealt a fatal blow to one of the most powerful Terrorist Networks of this century? It bugs me, but everyone has a different way of expressing "gratitude". I just love the poetic justice that was played in the demise of Osama though; death by American soldier via headshot.

Some people saw Osama as a monster in a human body, which is why some won't even perceive him as a human being.
Rembacher
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:51:51 PM

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Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,101
Yuzar wrote:
It should be noted that most of those people were also College kids, at least in the D.C. Area.


I've heard this explanation a few times, and I take issues with it because I suspect that same could have been argued for the people celebrating in the Arab world. That there as well, it was more youthful exuberance than a reflection of the general population, yet that explanation was never considered, or if it was, it was dismissed very quickly, and people used those celebrations as justification for all sorts of cruelty against Muslim people.
Kitanica
Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 5:56:34 PM

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If killing one evil person saves the lives of 2 or more good people I'm all for it.
cokeheadbarbie
Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 8:01:05 PM

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Assasinations mostly happen to the bad guys so I'm all for it. Even for those that some might think aren't all that bad don't forget that where there's smoke theres fire!

Also just coz they are famous we care more about it when they are killed. They could easily have been struck down by lightning or in a car accident. I think your chances to be assasinated are pretty slim unless you are a hip-hop or rap artist so people shud stop worrying and just speak there mind and be brave in the face of aversity!
MissyLuvsYa
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 9:15:08 PM

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Osama Bin Laden declared war on the United States then he convinced followers to go out and commit suicide in order to kill as many Americans and 'westerners' as possible. They did so quite horribly on Sept. 11, 2001. A special team of US Navy Seals finally caught up to Osama Bin Laden and took him out as an enemy of the United States. They did their job as ordered by a very liberal president. (And I am certainly not some right winged conservative).

So far I haven't noticed anyone celebrating here on Lush. Maybe some of us are glad that Bin Laden met justice, but celebrating human death? I haven't seen that here.

Mostly what I saw on TV were a few very young people probably who were drunk. There were no Skycams showing mass quantities of Americans jamming the streets, just fairly close shots showing no more then a couple of dozen on the screen at a time. Nothing at all compared to what we saw demonstrated in the Mideast when 9/11 happened.

Assassination? I don't think Osama Bin Laden was assassinated. He was killed in an act of war. He was no innocent civilian!!! He chose the path he took and that was the results.

The war with Al Quaida is not over. We can never let our guard down or they will target and kill another large number of civilians. It is not a liberal vs conservative issue. It is national defense and it is not only the USA they want to take down. It is every western nation and all of our western culture & society. They've already struck in Britain and they've been threatening to attack in France.

Who likes war? Certainly not me. But I am not so naive as to believe that it will cease to exist. Unfortunately human beings kill each other.

Explain all the psycho serial killers. I certainly can't. Organized street gangs that kill. Look at the horrible drug cartel war in Mexico right now. Why do people here in the USA have to lock their doors at night or get security systems? This is a dangerous world. All I can do is do my best to do my part to make it better.
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:45:44 PM

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When some new balance wearing chump steps on your brand spanking new shiny white sneakers. Shit's uncalled for.



tronster
Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:25:55 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 4/21/2011
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Location: Deerfield Beach
Sometimes I wonder why we have so much trouble trying to understand the mission of the military and why it SHOULD NEVER BE USED as a police force. It's primary reason for existence is to close with the enemy and destroy that enemy or reduce their will to combat the United States. I can never remember being trained in correct arrest procedures during a COMBAT mission, but I was trained not to fire on anyone that was attempting to surrender. Guess what folks, the people that were shot were NOT trying to surrender and were shot at and hit by some of the best trained warriors we have. Was OBL assassinated? Hell no, but he was killed in a MILITARY operation against a known enemy of the United States that had previously attack and was in the planning of more attacks against this Nation.

I'm sorry if I disagree with the assassination argument, he was an enemy combatant not a civilian casualty. Like the preacher told us during the first week of boot camp back in 1970, "You should never hate your enemy, even if there is a need to kill him do not take pleasure in that action".

So maybe it's time we stopped celebrating his death and work on getting this nation back on track, there's enough out there already dividing us, this action shouldn't be another log added to the fire.

Buz
Posted: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:39:26 PM

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Joined: 3/2/2011
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Assassination? NO

The US military killing Osama bin Laden was not an assassination. That was just doing their wartime military duty.

Too bad drunk partying revelers had to take the celebration of that terrorist's death to the streets. (Stooping to their illiterate level.)

We should save that stuff for when we totally defeat and eradicate major evil empires like we did in World War II.

Kudos to the US Navy Seals for a successful mission! Justice was done.

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Guest
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 5:04:34 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 474,002
OBL declared war on ALL Americans, innocent hard working countrymen & women.
Our government cannot support such actions and sit by and do nothing.
Extremists cannot be reasoned with & will not stop; unless forced to.
Our military took the correct action in trying to capture.
He resisted. Now we can move on with some reduction in threat.
It was a military operation, certainly not BHO, who is taking all the credit.
WTF

Thank every military person you see for protecting us.
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