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Zero tolerance vs Common Sense Options · View
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:52:58 AM

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Location: Alabama, United States
Boy nearly suspended for bringing toy gun to school.

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- A 9-year-old New Dorp boy earlier today learned there is no wiggle room in the Department of Education's "no toy gun" policy -- even if the toy gun is just two inches long.

Patrick Timoney, a fourth-grader at PS 52, South Beach, was nearly suspended after playing with LEGOs during his lunch period because one of the action figures was carrying at toy machine gun.

He and his friends had planned a playdate with their respective toys, and were sitting around the cafeteria table when the principal walked in and saw the action figure carrying the fake gun.

While the action figure was a standard LEGO policeman figure, the brand of the gun could not be determined.

"She took him into her office in the middle of the lunch period and he was crying," said the boy's mother, Laura Timoney. "He was afraid."

The principal called Ms. Timoney and said she considered the toy suspension-worthy, and that she was going to double-check with a security administrator from the city Department of Education.

According to Ms. Timoney, the administrator said the toy should be confiscated and returned to the parents at the end of the day, and that no other action was necessary.

"It's crazy," Ms. Timoney said. "He's missing class time, all for silly toys. The boys are just trying to relax. If there's a real threat, why not call the Police Department?"

She pointed out that another child had an action figure that was holding an ax, but that only Patrick was reprimanded.

"When are we going to take responsibility for common sense and logic?" Ms. Timoney said.

The DOE's discipline code says that all imitation weapons are prohibited, but, before considering suspension, it is up to a principal to decide whether a fake gun looks realistic, by evaluating the color, size, shape, appearance and weight.

A message left for Principal Evelyn Matroianni was not returned. However, Margie Feinberg, a spokeswoman for the DOE, said there is a no-tolerance policy when it comes to fake guns because they are considered harmful to the school community.

"Toy guns are not allowed in schools," she said, adding that a conference was held among the principal, the parents and the student about the topic.

"The issue was resolved," Ms. Feinberg said. "The child will not be bringing the toy gun into school.


Over reaction? Appropriate reaction being that he was only "disciplined" and not suspened? Can we not use common sense to see that this 2 inch plastic "weapon" is in now way a threat to safety?

I realize this is over a year old, but what the hell...





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nazhinaz
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:20:23 AM

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I fully endorse that we should first call our common sense to play instead of blindfoldedly following the rules.
The age of the kid, the size of the toy and many other considerations must be taken into account.
Yep; Common sense is something in short supply.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:10:06 AM

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This fits here.


sprite
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:36:09 AM

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wow... i mean, i get toy guns, like life sized ones, but a little teeny toy gun? i don't even like guns, but really, i have no hang up about what is obviously an accessory to an action figure, and legos are totally cool! i call total dumbass on the faculty involved in this fiasco - kid would have been fine if they'd left him alone - now he's probably going to grow up with authority issues and, eventually, do what they were trying to prevent, go ape shit on some teacher when he's 16. :p
Kornpopper
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:35:23 PM

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sprite wrote:
wow... i mean, i get toy guns, like life sized ones, but a little teeny toy gun? i don't even like guns, but really, i have no hang up about what is obviously an accessory to an action figure, and legos are totally cool! i call total dumbass on the faculty involved in this fiasco - kid would have been fine if they'd left him alone - now he's probably going to grow up with authority issues and, eventually, do what they were trying to prevent, go ape shit on some teacher when he's 16. :p

Definately!

This kid is going to remember that day for the rest of his life now and there is no telling what type of psycholgical issues he is going to have. It's sad because we are paying the salary's of these so called adults and they are over reacting in these situations. If they felt this was such a severe offense then they should just have a no toys policy enforced at the school. Kids are kids and they need to be treated as such, not as adults!

If you think about it they are passing on "having no common sense" to the kid. When he gets older he probably will also have no common sense or tolerance in that type of situation.

The decisions we make dictate the life we have.
Follow your dreams, for those that do not will only try to discourage others.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:13:07 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,671
Read this today on Facebook:

DEATH OF COMMON SENSE

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the
worm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are
in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended
from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for
reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers, for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental
consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but could
not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an
abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by
his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility and by his son
Reason.

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If
you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do
nothing.
Buz
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:40:22 PM

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Zero Tolerance is a sign of stupidity!

Common Sense is intelligent!

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erectus_2011
Posted: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:24:58 AM

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Alas !! Common sense is not so common !!!
easy_rider75
Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2011 9:26:45 PM

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Location: Playing with knives , United States
This pretty much just falls under give me a fucking break. I mean reaction from me to the school if they called me for something like that busting out laughing my ass off . Seriously a toy gun what a quarter of a freakin inch? Good lord

“I'm not one of those complicated, mixed-up cats. I'm not looking for the secret to life.... I just go on from day to day, taking what comes.”~Frank Sinatra~
Jani_31
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:23:17 AM

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Location: Wash DC suburbs
Even more idiotic is the case of the little boy suspended from school because he DREW a picture of a gun. I here one of these absurd stories almost weekly now and it seems our schools have totally misplaced their priorities.
pumpertruck
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:02:58 PM

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Zero tolerance with common sense please.
easy_rider75
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:06:26 PM

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Joined: 1/29/2011
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Location: Playing with knives , United States
Jani_31 wrote:
Even more idiotic is the case of the little boy suspended from school because he DREW a picture of a gun. I here one of these absurd stories almost weekly now and it seems our schools have totally misplaced their priorities.


Shit good thing they didn't have that when I was a kid I would have been suspended weekly for that. guns planes tanks and general blow shit up stuff back then for me. Oh can't forget knives to still have a thing for sharp pointy shit LOL

“I'm not one of those complicated, mixed-up cats. I'm not looking for the secret to life.... I just go on from day to day, taking what comes.”~Frank Sinatra~
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:01:51 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,671
easy_rider75 wrote:
Jani_31 wrote:
Even more idiotic is the case of the little boy suspended from school because he DREW a picture of a gun. I here one of these absurd stories almost weekly now and it seems our schools have totally misplaced their priorities.


Shit good thing they didn't have that when I was a kid I would have been suspended weekly for that. guns planes tanks and general blow shit up stuff back then for me. Oh can't forget knives to still have a thing for sharp pointy shit LOL


Most of the boys I grew up around did that too. Now they can't do that. Think we're raising a bunch of sissies or pacifists that hate war and violence?
easy_rider75
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:36:38 AM

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Location: Playing with knives , United States
chefkathleen wrote:
easy_rider75 wrote:
Jani_31 wrote:
Even more idiotic is the case of the little boy suspended from school because he DREW a picture of a gun. I here one of these absurd stories almost weekly now and it seems our schools have totally misplaced their priorities.


Shit good thing they didn't have that when I was a kid I would have been suspended weekly for that. guns planes tanks and general blow shit up stuff back then for me. Oh can't forget knives to still have a thing for sharp pointy shit LOL


Most of the boys I grew up around did that too. Now they can't do that. Think we're raising a bunch of sissies or pacifists that hate war and violence?


HA not me if I ever get to have kids someday LOL

“I'm not one of those complicated, mixed-up cats. I'm not looking for the secret to life.... I just go on from day to day, taking what comes.”~Frank Sinatra~
PrettyMom
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:21:51 AM

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Location: Eastern PA
Next they'll be removing all pictures of guns and weapons from the school books. This is truly just plain sad and I hope this teacher is remembered for being an idiot. Seriously a "fake" or replica weapon has to look like a real and functional one. There is no way to mistake a gun smaller than your pinky for something functional.
This goes in the same category as charging kindergarteners who really shouldn't know what sex is with sexual harassment for pantsing each other or kissing on the playground. At least this kids won't have something like sexual harassment on his school transcripts.
Guest
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:18:25 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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This shows just how afraid of guns the autorities are yet they endorse the use of guns among the adult population. Its totally wrong for a child to even think about a gun or own a model but its just fine to make guns freely available in our society. ' Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.'
deal1
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:30:10 AM

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Common sense is dead...will it ever be successfully resurrected?
hobbhorn
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:57:40 PM

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Location: Andrews
zero tolerance is usually a bad policy -- there are always exceptional circumstances that will arise. having to have rules is a sign of failure; where principles won't do. we should be teaching our kids principle based guidelines which mean we need to THINK about what we do and how we respond to what others do. this way common sense may be preserved because THOUGHT is involved.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:56:10 PM

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Location: United States
I've tried to stay out of this thread due to my somewhat one-sided views... ain't I been a good boy? Up until now.

Here's the problem with "zero tolerance" policies. There are always people who either are lawyers, have lawyers in the family, or can afford to hire lawyers at the drop of a hat. If you have a policy that allows for the governing body to be able to use discretion, then each issue will have to be handled on a case-by-case basis. And no matter how the leadership decides any particular case, there will be some asshats that will disagree with the decision made. This is especially true if the issue is an extremely polarizing one like guns.

So an issue arises, the Principal make his decision on the issue, and then anyone that disagrees with his decision will get the lawyers involved. Before you know it, thousands have been spent defending the Principal's decision.

It's cheaper just to have a blanket "zero tolerance" policy, and when the issue arises, and people threaten to get lawyers involved, everyone can simply say, "That's our policy."

MoonlightSerenity
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 2:07:29 PM

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Where's the common sense gone?
First some schools kick up about letting kids use actual cutlery other than spoons and now this?
My faith in humanity is getting lost very fast. If it's still there in the first place.
People should grow up and realize what happens if you keep on doing things like these.

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AlmightyRuckus
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:38:54 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
This fits here.



Oh wow deadpool finally makes sense :D. Common sense over zero tolerance all day everyday. The headmistress was obviously being over zealous for no apparent reason
midniteman
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:24:38 PM

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Location: toronto, Canada
common sense is a lost art in todays world. none in business world,, just ME factor... what happened to think before you jump.
if we went back to common sense,, the world wouldnt be as fucked up as it is!!!
but thats just my take on it.
i live for commen sense, and what you say?
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