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lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:27:08 AM

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Boy wants to join Girl Scouts

..Bobby Montoya is a 7-year-old boy from Denver. Unlike a lot of young boys, Bobby has no desire to join the Boy Scouts. Instead, he wants to be a Girl Scout.

We first saw Montoya's story over at 9news.com. The NBC affiliate reports that when the boy's mother, Felisha Archuleta, tried to sign her son up for Girl Scouts, a troop leader told her no.



Archuleta spoke with 9News about the incident. "I said, 'Well, what's the big deal?' She [the troop leader] said, 'It doesn't matter how he looks; he has boy parts, he can't be in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts don't allow that, [and] I don't want to be in trouble by parents or my supervisor.'"

Reporters with 9News contacted Girl Scouts of Colorado about Montoya's application, which prompted the group to release a statement: "Our requests for support of transgender kids have grown, and Girl Scouts of Colorado is working to best support these children, their families and the volunteers who serve them. In this case, an associate delivering our program was not aware of our approach. She contacted her supervisor, who immediately began working with the family to get the child involved and supported in Girl Scouts. We are accelerating our support systems and training so that we're better able to serve all girls, families and volunteers."


We placed a call to Rachelle Trujillo, vice president of communications at Girl Scouts of Colorado, for further clarification. She replied with this statement: "Girl Scouts is an inclusive organization, and we accept all girls in kindergarten through 12th grade as members. If a child lives life as a girl and the family brings the child to us to participate in Girl Scouts, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her. Girl Scouts of Colorado respects the privacy of all girls and families we work with. When a family requests membership for their daughter, we do not require proof of gender, we respect the decisions of families."

So it would seem that Bobby will get his wish. Gender-identity issues are becoming more common, especially among young children--which makes it more likely that the policy of the Girl Scouts will face future tests in the months and years ahead.

..


Whaddya say Lush?






When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:35:52 AM

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I think, as long as it's not a massive disruption, that a family's decision for their child should always prevail. If it's a big disruption, then they are within bounds to dismiss him/her on those grounds, as opposed to gender discrimination.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:19:18 AM

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I think that as unfortunate as it is for this little guy that wants to be a girl scout, they should keep the girl scouts all female. If they let this boy join they'll have to let other boys join. Where do they draw the line? Are they going to have to start evaluating on a case by case basis? "This boy looks girly enough, let him join. This boy however looks too male." Then they would be discriminating even more. Sometimes rules are just rules.

This sorta reminds me of when I was the score keeper for the girls JV volleyball team in high school. I travelled to every game with them on the bus. Yes, it was distracting. Probably would have been better if I was a chick.



sprite
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:23:23 AM

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So... can girls join the boy scouts as well? Seems only fair.

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LadyX
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:28:17 AM

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sprite wrote:
So... can girls join the boy scouts as well? Seems only fair.



If they were transgender according to their family, I'd say so.

I agree, Jackie, that rules are rules, but there are grey areas where the rules are ambiguous. Leave it up to the family, and the Boy/Girl Scouts don't have to decide whether to let this one or that one in at all. And if some family tries to abuse it and becomes an incredible hindrance to a particular troop of scouts, I think the organization is within their rights to dismiss them.
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:38:32 AM

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LadyX wrote:
sprite wrote:
So... can girls join the boy scouts as well? Seems only fair.



If they were transgender according to their family, I'd say so.

I agree, Jackie, that rules are rules, but there are grey areas where the rules are ambiguous. Leave it up to the family, and the Boy/Girl Scouts don't have to decide whether to let this one or that one in at all. And if some family tries to abuse it and becomes an incredible hindrance to a particular troop of scouts, I think the organization is within their rights to dismiss them.


For the sake of arguement. If the girls in this girl scout troop are uncomfortable with a boy being there and many of them quit or join other troops, is that fair to them?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:43:15 AM

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Well, that's sort of what I mean. If they're just a normal boy whose parents are putting them in girl scouts for the hell of it, then yes, it's very unfair to all involved and a total disruption. If it's a boy that's identifying as a girl (for whatever reason), then at least they're joining the girl scouts for the right reasons, and therefore, it's up to other parents and scout leaders to teach tolerance should they suspect anything. It's really never too early to curb bigotry.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:49:18 AM

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Sticking my nose in to say that here (England) girls can join cubs/scouts... but boys, to my knowledge, cannot join brownies/guides *shrug*
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:27:12 AM

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LadyX wrote:
If they're just a normal boy whose parents are putting them in girl scouts for the hell of it


That is a pretty scary thought! LOL


On the topic, I watched a documentary on transgendered kids recently that was pretty interesting. It turns out that children who are born intersexed are more common than we think and gender is often assigned at birth according to suggestions/decision made by parents and the doctor often based on the way the genitalia looks, rather than DNA/medical tests. Then the kids end up deeply psychologically confused later when they feel like they are in the wrong body.

I'd say if a child is truly transgendered and dressing/living as a girl the majority of the time, then parents and girl scouts should be supportive and, as Xuani pointed out, take this as an opportunity to teach tolerance to students. Tolerance is a much more valuable life lesson than anything they'll learn in Scouts.

These situations are pretty rare overall, so I don't see what the big deal is to make exceptions in special circumstances. Kids this age that are willing/wanting to identify as another gender are pretty brave souls to endure social backlash as it is. We all know how mean kids can be to other kids that don't 'conform', and that's to say nothing about the judgemental adults out there. I don't think this is the type of thing that would be abused by kids/families that aren't taking this absolutely seriously.



Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:50:18 PM

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LadyX wrote:
sprite wrote:
So... can girls join the boy scouts as well? Seems only fair.



If they were transgender according to their family, I'd say so.

I agree, Jackie, that rules are rules, but there are grey areas where the rules are ambiguous. Leave it up to the family, and the Boy/Girl Scouts don't have to decide whether to let this one or that one in at all. And if some family tries to abuse it and becomes an incredible hindrance to a particular troop of scouts, I think the organization is within their rights to dismiss them.


You're saying that they should let the common folk make the decision? If that worked we wouldn't need rules in the first place....

Im not sure how the girl scouts work but is there some sort of competition amongst them where a boy might have an advantage? I can see a lot of pissed of parents of the real girl girl scouts being pissed at that. I understand why they let a talented and physically capable girl join a boy's soccer team, for example, but I also understand why they don't let boys join a girl's soccer team. It's like co-ed sports or clubs only work one way.

It does suck for a transgendered child to not be able to join, I'm not completely insensitive about it. It also sucks for a child born with dwarfism to not be able to join a basketball team, if that's what they really want to do, but that's just life. Sometimes shit just doesn't work out the way we want. That lesson like tolerance is equally important for children to learn. Maybe even more important.



Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:10:42 PM

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sprite wrote:
So... can girls join the boy scouts as well? Seems only fair.


I have no idea if girls can join Boy Scouts. My guess is that they probably can't. I can't imagine that a seven year old boy would have just decided on his own that he wanted to be in Girl Scouts. Maybe he did, but it seems more likely that his dad is one of those men's rights advocates out to prove that things are tougher for boys than girls in society. If they can't join Girl Scouts, after all, why should women expect to be paid as much as men or receive child support?

There is a group that admits everyone who wants the experience of scouting. It's called Spiral Scouts International. I'm sure that there are probably more.

I was a girl scout. I started out in Daisy's when I was in kindergarten and stayed until I was in ninth grade. I enjoyed the experience for the most part. If we hadn't moved I would probably have stayed in my girl scout troop through high school just because I had friends there. I'm not sure that I would have enjoyed it as much if there had been boys. Boys tend to dominate every activity when they get the chance. It was fun to have something to do that boys weren't involved in.



Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:12:41 PM

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Except that I see now that the child was signed up by his mother, so maybe it wasn't an MRA thing after all.
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:15:36 PM

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MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:26:54 PM

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My first thought was, "Oh hell, no. What does a seven-year-old know about whether he wants to live life as a boy or a girl?"

Then I read this:

Dancing_Doll wrote:
On the topic, I watched a documentary on transgendered kids recently that was pretty interesting. It turns out that children who are born intersexed are more common than we think and gender is often assigned at birth according to suggestions/decision made by parents and the doctor often based on the way the genitalia looks, rather than DNA/medical tests. Then the kids end up deeply psychologically confused later when they feel like they are in the wrong body....


I suppose I don't have a problem with it, but if I were one of the leaders of that Girl Scout Troop, I'd make sure it was known that my position was specific to this case only, and that any other troops or decisions should be made on a case-by-case basis. I'd hate to be the one to make such a sweeping ruling as to potentially affect ALL Girl Scout Troops everywhere.

PrettyMom
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:36:49 PM

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A man can be a troop leader for a girl scout troop and a woman can be a boy scout troop leader and there are procedures in place for that situation. I know people who are and it's not as rare as you might think. So I don't see why a boy who identifies as a girl or a girl who identifies as a boy shouldn't join the troop that is appropriate for their identity. There are procedures in place for members of the opposite sex being in a troop. Those procedures should work whether the member is a leader or a child. These are also children in desperate need of support and that is what scouting is all about.
rxtales
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:55:51 AM

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I think gender is more that what your chromosomes are, or what genetalia you have. Over the summer I volunteered with an organisation called Gendered Intelligence which provides youth groups for transgendered children and teenagers. They also did various educational workshops for teachers, doctors, parents...ettc

Most transgendered people that I know, have felt they were the opposite since they were very young. However many of them didn´t come out of the closest until later because of their parents and other people weren´t accepting. Many transgendered children can start taking hormones at a fairly young age - in their early teens. In the UK, in order to obtain the hormones they have to be evaluated by a psychologist over a number of months, if not longer.

Anyways back to the original question. If this child identifies as being a girl, then yes, I think the child should be allowed to join the girl scouts. Who needs to know that the child´s biologically male? In my opinion that should be kept private by the organisers.

There is an excellent documentary called cruel and unusual which is about transgendered men that are put into male prisons in the states. It´s somewhat related and I would really suggest watching it.
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:50:58 AM

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personally we boycott the Boy Scouts as they do not let in gay boys. and for my part i try to teach my son that everyone gets to play.

that being said though, i think something like this should be handled at the individual level. if that child participating doesnt cause disruption with the other kids (and the other parents are all wearing their big girl/boy panties) then i cant see a problem with it. it did get to be a problem tho when it went nationwide and became over blown. now everyone and their mother has an opinion...people who arent even effected by the decision. people will be pissed if they let the kid in and some will be pissed if they dont. i wish they had kept this on a personal level and not put this poor kid and whatever confusion he/she is feeling at the moment in the spot light and just let him/her play.
v-card
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 8:05:05 PM

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I applaud the Girl Scouts for accepting him. They always have been much more liberal than the Boy Scouts, examples being accepting atheists and lesbians. Why not let everyone have the opportunity to enjoy Girl Scouts? Why not set the standard for acceptance in "private" organizations?
Guest
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:47:41 PM

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I'm not sure about his situation. I do not some of us are different and I hope finds his true self whether others like it or not. We are whom we are! Just give him space and let nature decide. Being different can be tough as a child. I know for a fact.
Kitanica
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 10:00:31 PM

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I thought the boy scouts and girl scouts were the same organization just with.. Idk two branches? don't they just sell cookies? I don't know much on the topic though lol
Guest
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 9:24:43 PM

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Didn't we already see this lady and her child a while back? I got a funny feeling about momma.

Bunny12
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 11:18:46 PM

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I'm thinking at 7 years old if this child was given a buzz cut and G.I. Joe action figures he would want to join the army. Environmental factors seem to be at work here! (Mother....) Good for the girl scouts for being accepting though. Personally I was a brownie and thought it sucked and bored the hell out of me so I quit maybe I should have been a boy scout! lol

Bunny12


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Guest
Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 5:06:23 AM

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Let the poor little sod join in. We strive for equality in everything else. We can't say all men and women have equal rights and then rattle off a list of exceptions. The kid might be going through a faze, or could become a better person for the experience. My brothers all know how to knit, sew, cook and clean... I dare you to tell either of them they're sissy boys. By the way, I was taught how to do all the boy stuff too, I'm still feminine. Let the kid be what he wants to be.
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:33:38 PM

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LittleBambi wrote:
Sticking my nose in to say that here (England) girls can join cubs/scouts... but boys, to my knowledge, cannot join brownies/guides *shrug*

i live in england and as far as i know LittleBambi is correct. as far as i know there was a case a few years ago a boy wanted to join the guides and there was a hell of an upheaval about it.
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:43:40 PM

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Sometimes little boys do have what people call phases. They'll see little girls playing with certain toys and they want to play with them too. It doesn't mean that transgendered/confused/gay/or any other people are being made fun of or challenged for their feelings or who they are in any way. It means that they will be wanting to play with female toys for awhile. He could grow bored and move on to something else or discover that he really likes being in high heels and tiaras. But he needs the time to grow and figure it out for himself without everyone making an issue of it. Before causing an uproar with the girl scouts I hope his mother has gave him that time before shoving him into the middle of a media storm. Christ it's hard enough being a child without having your childhood broadcast from the rafters.
DirtyMartini
Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:02:39 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
Before causing an uproar with the girl scouts I hope his mother has gave him that time before shoving him into the middle of a media storm. Christ it's hard enough being a child without having your childhood broadcast from the rafters.


I read the article, and watched the video on the site...I consider myself to be a rather open-minded, non-prejudice type person, but I think in my mind, is the whole thing boils down to him really being too young to determine a lot of stuff, and I think gender identity may be included here...

I think it's a bit of an odd phase personally, that a seven year old boy would want to dress as the opposite sex and be treated as such...but, I consider the possibility that it is indeed a phase, as the good Chef pointed out...

I do not believe that the policy of the Girl Scouts, or any organization for that matter, should change their long standing policy, and risk the discomfort and possibly put other members at risk solely on the whim of a seven year old boy, who is not legally old enough to make any other significant decisions...

That's my My 2 cents for today...let me get back to more important matters...Regaeman Man


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rxtales
Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 6:41:54 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
Sometimes little boys do have what people call phases. They'll see little girls playing with certain toys and they want to play with them too. It doesn't mean that transgendered/confused/gay/or any other people are being made fun of or challenged for their feelings or who they are in any way. It means that they will be wanting to play with female toys for awhile. He could grow bored and move on to something else or discover that he really likes being in high heels and tiaras. But he needs the time to grow and figure it out for himself without everyone making an issue of it. Before causing an uproar with the girl scouts I hope his mother has gave him that time before shoving him into the middle of a media storm. Christ it's hard enough being a child without having your childhood broadcast from the rafters.


Today, the LGBT society at my uni was discussing making a "it gets better" you tube video. For those of you who don´t know what that is, it´s basically a world wide campaign aimed at young LGBT people who are having trouble coping one reason or another with their sexuality. We were discussing what sorts of things we wanted in it, and we got onto the discussion of coming out to people, whether people we gay, bi, lesbian, trans..etc

A big point many people made was that it was really important to know for sure what they are. Many of my friends said they came out as being gay, then realised their sexuality was more fluid, and things were made more difficult when they didn´t want to be labelled as gay. One person said they originally came out as being trans, and identifying as a woman, and then several years later realised they didn´t want to identify with either gender.

I understand was chef is saying here. I don´t think it is a phase, but the child should be able to figure this out for himself without it being broadcasted across the news. When I was 17, I was dating a man, but broke up with him because I was positive that I was a lesbian. I felt pressured into choosing one or the other, but now I realise I am still figure it out.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 9:52:50 AM

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As a lot of people do Rx. Good point. I asked a friend one time are you gay, straight, lesbian? She said I'm Gail. *that was her name* In other words, she was at any given time, perhaps all of that but most of all she was just herself.
stephanie
Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 11:39:12 PM

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I've thought about this before posting...

("A bit unusual for You, Stephanie???" "Well, YES it is......")

Girl Scouts is NOT a proper place for a 7 year old little boy.....

The clue is in the name, GIRL scouts.....

IF the poor little boy feels more of an affinity with girls, then God love him, BUT it doesn't mean you compromise the whole ethos of an organisation for the whim of one small boy....

The little boy may well be transgendered, (or he may NOT be) and that's something his parents and those who love him will have to help him with.....

BUT......

Let's not go nuts..........

At the moment, you're a boy....... And boys can't be girl scouts..............

xx S


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Guest
Posted: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:52:42 AM

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This reminds me of the story from a year ago when the book, My Princess Boy, was released and everyone was talking about the little boy who started wearing dresses at 2 yrs old.

What about the thread concerning women only gyms? Men only golf courses? Etc... Is this different because the kid identifies as a girl? I don't think the Girl Scouts should change their policy for one child.
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