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Innate Bisexuality Options · View
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:25:46 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,741
Hello. I'm Amy and I like to write erotic stories here (Lush grumble: "Hiii AAmmmy")

I wanted to float the notion of innate bisexuality out there to see what the feeling is, mostly re: men on the site. I like to write stories based on my personal fantasies. I don't really consider my audience too much and just express whatever arouses me in the moment. It's self indulgent writing, but I like to delve into my fantasies and let them run wild. Yet, I've noticed my interest in straight men occasionally indulging in bisexual or gay acts is a "no no." Meaning, I hear feedback that my story was very well written and they loved it, but gave me a 4 because they didn't like the gay stuff or sex scenes. I also noticed a similar comment on Ashleigh's Fade to Black story. This is not so much my being obsessed with my scores, but I find it interesting. Ashleigh's story is high quality, intense, emotionally charged erotica and it annoys me when readers take out their insecurities on the writer (I'm sure this is not how Ashleigh feels. She likely is less fussy than I and I don't want to imply she has in any way indicated to me she is upset).

It's odd to me that Incest stories are so remarkably popular yet any light gay or male bisexual stuff, readers like to punish the writer a bit with the score, while indicating that the story was well written. The score is intended to be a comment on the writing quality, not a referendum on the reader's insecurities or sexual hang ups. If a guy is fucking two women - blow jobs, anal, pussy, cumming in her, etc but then gives another guy a blow job, the male blow job offends people. Yet "fucking their daughter" is gold. I understand "to each their own", but...

The frustration as a woman comes in to play when, if I just substitute the gender, the problem would go away. If it's a straight woman engaging in licking another woman's pussy, bringing her to orgasm, sharing the unique knowledge of each others bodies, we are happy to accept it. Yet if it's two straight men, still romantically only attracted to women, yet sexually aroused by a man's body or his cock, then (not from everyone) there is negativity and push back. Frankly, I feel like it's sexism with a tinge of homophobia. I honestly am surprised to see that on a site as open as this one.

As many likely already know, doctors like Freud and Kinsey suggested that we are all predominantly straight or gay, yet innately bisexual. They believe our upbringing plays a factor in what the degree (This is not at all to say sexual orientation is a choice, because it isn't. But closed mindedness is). Sure, only a select group fall right down the middle and live as true "bisexuals", but I feel like we all have the capacity to be sexually (perhaps not romantically) aroused by the opposite sex.

I love looking up straight yet admittedly bisexual men. Usually they turn out to be artists and musicians (david bowie, billy joe armstrong, jake gyllenhaal, that british guy from batman... tom hardy?). I'm personally attracted to their strength, openness and self knowledge. They are unafraid. So I write about guys like that. Again this is not a pitch for me or my stories, but more I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on the psychology of it. I'm going to continue to write my fantasies regardless of score or approval (although god knows I love the approval).

...thanks. sorry this is so loooooooong.

Amy
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:43:44 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
Interesting topic Amy. You should write what you like to write. If it's in your head, then you should share it if you want. Some things are still taboo. And for most straight guys, the thought of touching or being touched by another man it tops on that list. A reasonable Lush man should be able to read your stories and comment and vote on how well it is written. I have no desire to fuck or be fucked by a guy. Just not my thing. I have read "Fade to Black" and loved the story. It was well written. I knew that poor sap was going to get it in the end, pun intended. However, big difference. That guy got his ass deflowered by a woman with a strap-on. Either way, like the sex or not, the comments and votes should reflect HOW it was written.

There is a double standard when it comes to bisexuality. Two men having sex just doesn't have the same draw as two women. Even amongst women, most of them would rather see two lesbians screwing than they would two guy dudes. Having said all that, if I chose to read a story I'd vote/comment on how well it was written whether or not I liked the kind of sex.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Shibui
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:42:36 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 12/22/2010
Posts: 109
Location: Nesteled in your arms, United States
American male here: From youth through puberty and into adulthood I was exposed to the horrors of the "queer" community. Not my direct thoughts, but the thoughts of those around me, regardless of the community I associated with. Keep in mind, much of my life span, gay people had to be in the closet just to exist in this society. The Army didn't want you, most Churches would reject you and God forbid you were a Gay Teacher. With an education like that, one might imagine that some lasting impressions are formed. I don't think my experience is much different from other people my age. In fact, I think much of this antediluvian thought is, to some degree, still in play today and why you are experiencing the negativity to your stories.

That said, with age comes an understanding that everyone is not like me. This is a good thing.

I have mentioned on Lush before that sharing "man juice" would not dampen my sexual fun with a couple in an mfm relationship. Again, I would have to know the other people well and we would have to be comfortable with one another on many levels prior to this encounter, but I can imagine pleasure from the encounter. We are well outside my experience and a pure mm experience frightens me even more, but a story involving this type of relationship would not repulse me.

Please keep writing against the wind. The direction does change.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:56:08 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,741
Thank you both for your thoughtful, well worded and honest replies. I'm truly interested in this topic and I appreciate your sincerity. Sure, my vanity gets sometimes threatens my honesty, and I do consider censoring myself. Fortunately I cannot go thru with it, and in the end, I write as truthfully as possible, for better or worse. (But a girl likes good scores, nice comments and flowers, right?) As for the issue at hand, I thank you for your perspectives. I think it's a very complicated issue, and sexuality is tied up with all sorts of other psychology. I'm fascinated by the issue.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:05:54 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,270
Location: West Coast
I think that for the most part, people get uncomfortable with anything outside of the socially acceptable norm of dominant males and submissive females. And even if they are secretly turned on by going against the grain, a lot of times men will still be reluctant to be open about it.

The typical male character in an erotica story is a dominant, alpha male who knows how to take charge in the bedroom. While I think that most people will find this image universally appealing, the deeper you get into outside-the-box kink levels, the more explorative you start to become about pushing past these basic stereotypes. Stories that make the guy submissive to some degree (whether it's cuckold, strap-on, bisexual experimentation, femdom or all the way to humiliation/sissy femdom) make the average straight guy... uncomfortable. That's why I wrote my story, Fade to Black, in a way that would touch upon this issue and the fact that straight dominant guys can tap into a whole other side of themselves if they are open-minded about it. I've had really positive reaction to the story so far, so definitely no complaints from me. I actually think i had more of a 'gaak-response' to my cuckold/cum-eating story that I posted a few months ago. Embarassed

I think that many times the comments about not liking a particular kink in a story but still enjoying the story anyway speak to the fact that if a writer spins a good tale, fans will be willing to follow you down whatever rabbit hole you venture into. I follow some authors that write outside my own personal kinks/interests but their talent at writing and storytelling is what draws me in, not the sex acts themselves. In some cases I've actually become intrigued about certain kinks that I otherwise wouldn't have found particularly erotic so it definitely helps to open your mind that way.

If someone is bombing a story with a bad score because the sex act wasn't their brand of kink, then just chalk it up to a narrow-minded misguided reader. Most people should be looking at story tags before reading to make sure they know what they're getting into so there isn't any excuse for that.

But yeah, overall I think guys are more rigid in their sexual boundaries than women are (in general) and maintaining that dominant/straight image is much more of a societal pressure than anything women can understand. We live in a world where bisexual girls are celebrated (as long as they are the femme lipstick variety, of course) and the idea of a bisexual man is supposed to be a myth (men are either straight or gay with no in between allowed). I think people's reaction to stories reflect those assumptions. The idea of a bisexual guy OR a submissive/switch guy still freaks a lot of people out because they're harder for the average person to label and understand.


NathanDrake
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:44:47 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 1/15/2011
Posts: 16
Location: United States
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stephanie
Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 11:35:30 PM

Rank: Bohemian

Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 4,863
Location: Dublin, Ire., Ireland
NathanDrake wrote:
Female sexuality is naturally more fluid than male sexuality, that's what I understand based on the little I've read and from my own observations. There's a stronger barrier between men and than women, a straight woman can look at other women and appreciate them physically and they're less averse to casual or sexual physical contact compared to men. Most of this is probably based on the biological fact that females are the more aesthetically appealing sex because their sexuality is much more powerful than male sexuality, powerful enough to overcome biological same sex aversion.

This becomes so ridiculously obvious if you spend a little time at Lush and see how many female profiles say bi-curious, bi-sexual, and lesbian, compared to men who are more often just straight or if they're gay they never write things like "no ladies please, men only!". Actually, when I see "straight" on a female profile I'm like "who is this rare creature?"

From my own personal experience the sight of two men kissing makes me cringe and want to turn away. I'm sure I'm not alone as a man in feeling that, and for me that reaction feels like it's coming from

As far as incest, I've thought about why it's by far the most popular category, and it can't simply be that "everybody is creepy!" Seriously I'm not sure why exactly but I do know that people with similar genetics are attracted to each other. That's pretty obvious when you look around at the world we live in. In the case with family members, though, we supposedly develop a resistance while growing up together called the Westermarck effect. Not sure about all that.

Summary: vagina and boobs are really nice and two girls kissing is hot.


Wow!!!!

You're certainly hitting up some different issues!

IS female sexuality more 'fluid' then male sexuality or is it simply that women are more able to express those feelings then most men???

Do straight women really think that the female body is more asthetically appealing????? (Most straight girls I know are rather fond of a slim hip and a fat cock....)

I don't know a single 'straight' woman who wouldn't tell you that Angelina Jolie is rather attractive but you seldom get straight guys saying the same thing about Johnny Depp or George Clooney...... (Could that be because straight guys simply can't bring themselves to think about it??? And if so, why not????) We're not talking that you'd immediately jump into bed with Angelina if you were a straight girl..... But you might think and talk about it...... If a guy did the same in regard to Johnny or George he'd be labelled a Fag....... Double Standard?

On the subject of two men kissing and the fact that it makes you cringe...... Why?

Just don't look at it if it upsets you..... It's really none of your business..... (You've given enough reasons why it shouldn't be!!!!)

On the subject of you being aroused by two girls kissing... Why? (Where do you see yourself in that situation? THEY SURE AS SHIT DON'T NEED AND AREN'T THINKING OF YOU!!!!!) You're surplus to requirements there, My Friend.... (It's really none of your business.....) And COOL if you find it arousing..... What harm? But again...... Not real...... (A little secret about Lesbians..... They're not just doing that because they're waiting for you to spring into the bedroom with an erect tool..... Actually..... That would displease them.....)

Incest is popular as a category because it allows us to imagine a physical relationship with someone we are already deeply connected to on an emotional level... And it's a fantastic situation, obviously...... (Most people who dig incest stories don't REALLY want to sleep with Mom.....) But the idea has such deep appeal that many people love to explore it in fantasy...... What Harm???

Free your mind...... Feel more.... Think more... Judge and assume less.....

Enjoy Lush!!!!!

xx SF



"Is there a PLACE in this city to always feel this way?" (The Blue Nile)
DLizze
Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:12:12 AM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 4/23/2011
Posts: 2,552
I think societal pressure to be "manly" is so much stronger than pressure to be "girly" or "womanly". It is instilled upon us from a very early age. Boys who want to play with dolls, or "play house" are admonished against it, or quickly directed into other kinds of play; whereas little girls are allowed more freedom in their choice of roles. Because of that, most men are psychologically conditioned to be afraid to allow themselves to see beauty in other males, or to even consider the possibility of sex with another male. I have often said in humor, "I lived through the nineties and found the woman in me. She is a lesbian." But, really, I think that falls under the category of "... truth oft spoken in jest."
I listed myself as bi-curious, not so much because I want some guy kissing me, or having sex with me, as I think there is a bi-sexual side to all of us. When I look at Michaelangelo's David, or The Discus Thrower, I see beauty in the male form. I admire the curve of he upper thigh, and the firm gluteals. I know women who have fantasized about Sean Connery, and I can appreciate that. He is a good looking guy. But the thought of kissing someone with five o'clock whiskers turns me off.

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
NathanDrake
Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:41:09 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 1/15/2011
Posts: 16
Location: United States
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overmykneenow
Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:41:35 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,020
Location: United Kingdom
I really wouldn't get hung up on the whole votes thing - if it's what you want to write then write it. Some people will enjoy it, others won't, it's just something we all have to live with. While your subject matter may not give you the reach you're looking for I'm sure it is greatly appreciated by a section of this community. Incest stories are very popular here for some reason - personally I haven't read, commented on or rated any of them because I have no interest in that subject at all.

Innate bisexuality? Well I guess you could quote Freud and Kinsey but according to them were innately into incest as well. I personally don't see it myself but if two guys want to get it on who am I to complain.

It seems you have an almost evangelical approach to male bisexuality coupled with a strong attraction to sexually ambiguous men; in which case that's what you need to write about, if simply to explore your own feelings and express them fully. Sadly, when I read here it's for my own personal gratification rather than to provide personal literary critique for amateur writers; so it's unlikely I'll read your stuff as it's simply not my cup of tea.

I know, I'm an awful person.

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
Montencof
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:49:23 AM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 10/25/2011
Posts: 5
Shame on you Shame on you Hi,

I won't go indepth as everyone else here felt that need....geesh. People make things so complicated. So, here is a quick and easy answer for those who don't like to read endless diatribe.

I'm a lover of truth. If you write fiction, I won't read it...sorry. But if you've lived a story of male to male contact or someone related one to you it would be very interesting to me. Because it happened and not someone's thoughts.
Buz
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:30:03 AM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,778
Location: Atlanta, United States
Time has proven Freud and Kinsey to have been extremely flawed in many of their theories.

I do not understand the popularity of the incest stories myself. I am straight and I personally find incest as unappealing as male homosexuality. On the other hand I will vote the stories on how well they are written. And I do not judge people for their preferences whether they were born that way or circumstances made them that way. Live and let live.

I do not believe in innate bisexuality at all. There is no innate in me. Just a fact. And I am not a homophobe. Everyone is different. Only small minded people cannot accept that everyone is not like themselves. I do not feel uncomfortable at all around gay men. Actually some 100% gay lesbians make me feel kind of uncomfortable but gay men do not. And to be honest not all 100% lesbians do either. Just those that put off a strong vibe that they hate males (and some do.)

I think it is a very small mind that trash votes a story based on whether or not is about gay sex, lesbian sex, consensual adult incest sex, bondage sex, anal sex, straight sex, group sex, etc. spank

I think the seriously offensive stuff is already not allowed here.



Guest
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:51:14 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,741
Seeing how most of the stories written on Lush are incest stories,I would love to read a well written tasteful bisexual story from a woman's p.o.v.
I'm interested in what she wants to see.
playsit
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:59:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/26/2011
Posts: 289
Location: Northeastern Untied Sates, United States
Hi Amy. I've written you with my thoughts regarding your story already, but I'll expand somewhat. First a little background: I'm a straight male, who used to have a huge phobia about gay men. My daughter, who I love with all my heart, revealed to me a few years back that she is a lesibian. I've done much soul searching about this since. I've met many of her gay friends and have got to know some of them well.

My attitude now has changed dramatically. While I'm still very much straight, the thought of two men together doesn't bother me at all. Reading your latest story is proof of that change. I found it very interesting and erotic that the normal FMF tables were flipped around with MFM. I also found it interesting to see that from a ladies perspective. I gave it an proud 5 and an un-ashamed comment.

I have almost fallen into the ratings trap, especially if a story was poorly written but happenned to be sexually appealing to my particular bent. It has been hard in the past to slide the mouse down to a 3 or 4. Conversely, I have to force the mouse up to a 5 if the story was expertly written, but not my cup of tea. I have left comments blank before because of story content. I'm not sure why, but there's still a fear of my fantasies being public knowledge sometimes... shame on me.
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:54:37 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,741
I think sexuality is very complicated, and deeply tied into our psychology. And I personally enjoy keeping my fantasies and reality separate. I know many here don't, and I certainly receive the question a lot about if I've ever done any of my fantasies in real life. The answer is no. And when asked if I'd like to, the answer again is no. I'm satisfied with my real life, yet I also am satisfied with my fantasy life. My fantasies can never be reality. A fantasy cannot exist as reality. Even if I could get the players to behave as I wanted, and I got the location, the atmosphere, the music, the weather, etc just perfect, it wouldn't be the same. And I'm thankful for that. I like my dreams and I like my reality. I don't want my dreams or fantasy to go away. I love them.

The way I write is to let my fantasies go into the deepest version of themselves (to the dismay of some readers I'm afraid) in order to enlighten me as to what is lurking in the corners of my sexuality. And while delving into the fantasy here will to some degree come into my reality in some way or another. The reality and fantasy, while separate, are two sides of the same coin and work together. They feed and enlighten each other.

Everyone is different. And no one posting on this issue I believe is wrong or right.

But I think it's odd that, while we are all here to various degrees anonymously, some defend against letting themselves go into a fantasy as if it is reality. I can't wrap my head around that. I don't understand. YET.. some of the comments above have helped me understand. Truly. And I appreciate that, and understand the perspective.
clum
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 6:15:53 AM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,485
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
I can totally buy into innate bisexuality and the idea of being sexually (if not romantically) attracted to/aroused by members of the same sex. Certainly I often enjoy reading about men having the kinds of experiences you have described (I might just have to read a few of your stories) because it addresses many of the thoughts and feelings I have had in the past (and still do from time to time).

I identify as heterosexual, in the sense that I would like to spend the rest of my life with a woman and almost certainly not with a man. However, I have definitely been 'turned on' by attractive men and fantasised about them and even had a homosexual experience. As my eloquent friends would say, I'm "not impartial to a bit of cock". I am, for the most part, happy to discuss and explore this aspect of my sexuality but a lot of men are not and get really defensive and 'macho' when the subject comes up.

The first erotic story I wrote (before I joined Lush) is now in the Gay Male category and I already have plans for others of this nature (although I don't know when I'll get the time to write them). I am perhaps an anomaly amongst men in that Lesbian stories, or stories featuring female-on-female 'action', put me off a little; it's not something I can identify with, not something that turns me on and not something I have any desire to read or write about.

Snapping back to focus, yes, I think everyone's is at least a little bisexual. I can see it in just about everyone I know (in real life) even though almost all of them identify either as 'straight' or 'gay'. In my experience, men are much less comfortable with acknowledging this (it's that macho thing again). I'm with you in being surprised at the reaction from some readers on this site and that it shouldn't be something that affects your score, necessarily. I'm glad you're not letting it alter the way you write and neither would I. I think it's good for readers to see a character do something they weren't expecting now and again (I like it).

Don't know if that addresses anything you actually posted about, it was just a ramble really.

Every day is a school day.
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