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Michael_X
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 5:58:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 76
Location: T.M.I., United States
The person in specific being Hitler.
One major thing to look past is the Holocaust.
With that aside knowing he was a horrible person.
What are your thoughts about him say if the holocaust never happened.
Do you think he was a great leader? Or horrible
Etc

I'm asking because I take a class based souly on the Holocaust/Various Genocides around the world.
A lot of people think that he was an amazing leader OUTSIDE, of his horrible acts with the Holocaust.

Also, a recent article I read stated that if the Holocaust never happened, He would easily go down in history as one of the greatest leaders of all time. Sadly I can not find the article. But what are your thoughts.

Me?
I do think that he would arguably be one of the greatest leaders of all time with what he did to Germany PRIOR to the holocaust. After, well I think he is a piece of trash.

"Do you want to live to work or work to live"

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

"Always hold you head up high, never come off weak"

Michael
Cindysaleswoman
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 6:00:42 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 12/23/2011
Posts: 19
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
A lot of what Hitler did was smoke and mirrors. But then again, some might say that FDR did the same things.
FDRs NRA program really prolonged the depression. But it made people feel good.
Both had the same ideas. Both banned private ownership of gold and started social programs not mandated in their respective Consitutions. Both had ethnic groups thrown into camps and both used the power of the Government as a club against people who disagreed with them.
Hitler used the hatred of the jews to unite his country,giving him a whipping boy and a excuse.
But I think Hitler was also "Time " Man of the year.
Facist and Socialist types are almost the same....just that the Nazis had snazzier uniforms.
But anyways.....what do I know?
Guest
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 6:25:41 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,834


Hitler was simply a shyster. As most political blowhards today. One follows the rhetoric that indulges ones wants and needs at that specific point. Great leader, NO.

Great PR, superb ability to bring about nostalgic pride (Tea Party anyone?...sorry, have to point a middle finger at Beck fans whenever the occasion arises), and a keen sense of what motivates ones animal instinct, agreed.

Luckily, no matter how much I fear the unread masses. At least this type of animal will never again be experienced, for now.

ArtMan
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 8:07:01 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 640
Location: South Florida, United States
Hitler could not have risen to power without his hatred of Jews and blaming them for Germany's loss of World War I. His speeches from the very beginning were designed to build a base out of racists and expand on that into a very bitter worker class in order to have mass support. So it is impossible to separate the Holocaust from his achievements. He had a talent for murder and eliminated his Nazi competitors in The Night of The Long Knives, when Hitler SS murdered the leaders of his Nazi rivals, The Brown Shirts.

I guess that leaves his only accomplishments being his creation of the Volkswagen Beetle* and a flag for the Nazis that was an outstanding graphic design. His flag is actually one of the best designed flags in history. It is simple, bright, easy to remember and it boldly sold his product. Hitler had a real talent for public relations and drama, successfully mesmerizing the masses. He was also a talented orator and recognized talented organizers and ruthless henchmen putting them to work for his evil goals.

*(Hitler helped to design and create that car. If you drive one don't get upset with me, it is just a fact.)

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

DirtyMartini
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 8:56:50 PM

Rank: Purveyor of Poetry & Porn

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 5,778
Location: Right here on Lush Stories..., United States
Cindysaleswoman wrote:

But I think Hitler was also "Time " Man of the year.


Yeah, I believe you're right...from what I always understood, he did a lot to help the economy of Germany at that time which was in a slump...but, I don't think you can really talk about Hitler without bringing up the Holocaust...you know, it's not exactly a minor detail...Merry Christmas, btw...


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Guest
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 10:02:06 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,834
They shoulda just let him into art school... woulda saved the world a lot of trouble.
Michael_X
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 10:18:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 76
Location: T.M.I., United States
writer39 wrote:
They shoulda just let him into art school... woulda saved the world a lot of trouble.


This, very true. They could have even let him in the second go around. But no.

eviotis wrote:
At lease this type of animal will never again be experienced again, for now.


Genocides are happening all around the world. Right noe. As we speak.

"Do you want to live to work or work to live"

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

"Always hold you head up high, never come off weak"

Michael
Guest
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 10:48:04 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 531,834





Yes, I know.
TransitionalMan
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:04:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 12/27/2009
Posts: 108
Location: Ohio, United States
Separating Hitler from his xenophobia isn't really possible, it defined who he was. It was his racism that drove him to begin wars of conquest. But even if he hadn't built the concentration camps, he still would have been evil for mouthing the words of racism, for promoting hatred, and for trying to conquer the world. He was evil, period.
castlequeen
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2012 10:14:12 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/24/2009
Posts: 590
I'll start by saying I'm not in any way supporting ANY of his hatreds, but Hitler had some very odd ideals for his time.
He was a strict vegetarian.
He didn't drink.
He was very much against drugs (even though a number of his cronies were serious users).
He also felt the family unit was critically important to a society, and that women should be mothers and wives above all.
He was totally faithful to his mistress/wife Eva Braun.

Sadly, toss those in with a complete lunatic with irrational hatreds and a complete obliviousness about the realities of war and you get a very poor result of a human being.

"A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere." - Groucho Marx
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2012 4:33:32 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,281
Location: Cakeland, United States
castlequeen wrote:
I'll start by saying I'm not in any way supporting ANY of his hatreds, but Hitler had some very odd ideals for his time.
He was a strict vegetarian.
He didn't drink.
He was very much against drugs (even though a number of his cronies were serious users).
He also felt the family unit was critically important to a society, and that women should be mothers and wives above all.
He was totally faithful to his mistress/wife Eva Braun.

Sadly, toss those in with a complete lunatic with irrational hatreds and a complete obliviousness about the realities of war and you get a very poor result of a human being.


Dick Cheney has been a fucking saint, by these measurements....too.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
ArtMan
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2012 8:00:37 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 640
Location: South Florida, United States
castlequeen wrote:
I'll start by saying I'm not in any way supporting ANY of his hatreds, but Hitler had some very odd ideals for his time.
He was a strict vegetarian.
He didn't drink.
He was very much against drugs (even though a number of his cronies were serious users).
He also felt the family unit was critically important to a society, and that women should be mothers and wives above all.
He was totally faithful to his mistress/wife Eva Braun.

Sadly, toss those in with a complete lunatic with irrational hatreds and a complete obliviousness about the realities of war and you get a very poor result of a human being.


Hitler was very much against drugs? Really? HE WAS A KNOWN METH ADDICT! That is a historical fact!

He was totally faithful to his mistress/wife Eva Braun. He is thought to have been impotent and known to be in love with his niece, who eventually committed suicide due to his meddling in her life. Eva Braun often suffered deep bouts of depression partly because she felt ignored by Hitler.

He also felt the family unit was critically important to a society, and that women should be mothers and wives above all. He had several of his relatives arrested and his hometown destroyed. Quite possibly to cover up the fact the he had some Jewish ancestry.

Hitler is one of the worst mass murderers in world history. Only Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedung could possibly have surpassed his numbers.

Hitler also suffered badly from flatulence. Yes, he farted a lot and could not control it.

As for as his art talent, he was very mediocre. He had trouble rendering correct perspective. And get this, the Iron Cross medal Hitler always wore was awarded to him when he was a corporal in WWI. He was nominated for that medal by a Jewish German officer.

Hitler and Himmler were working on ideas for a new German state religion that was to be based on ancestor worship.

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

relaxandrelease
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2012 9:59:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/19/2009
Posts: 268
Location: Roanoke, United States
He did galvanize a war torn and humbled Germany into a working, thriving nation. He was able to bring it to the ruins of WW1 into an industrial power house and world leader. If he hadn't had been a maniac, then the would have been an excellent leader. However, history as it is, he was cruel, vile, and a terrible leader.

Ferte in noctem animam meam, Illustre´╗┐ stelle viam meam. Aspectu illo glorior, Dum capit nox diem. Cantate vitae canticu, Sine dolore acte, Dicite eis quos amabam, Numquam obliviscar.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:38:26 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
relaxandrelease wrote:
He did galvanize a war torn and humbled Germany into a working, thriving nation. He was able to bring it to the ruins of WW1 into an industrial power house and world leader. If he hadn't had been a maniac, then the would have been an excellent leader. However, history as it is, he was cruel, vile, and a terrible leader.


Unfortunately, I don't think you get one without the other, at least in that situation. He was only able to galvanize the German people the way he did by uniting them in xenophobic hatred. To paraphrase Wellmademale's signature: To find out a man's real character, give him power. I don't think a lot of Type-A leaders with once-in-a-generation charisma are completely sane, reasonable, or benevolent.
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