Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Defending our freedom Options · View
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:12:00 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,174
Location: Atlanta, United States
The men & women of the US military do absolutely deserve our praise for their hard work and heroism. And they do deserve every incentive they get and a lot more.



I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:14:11 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
sgfan97 wrote:
I have mixed emotions on this subject. One one hand I think that since these men and women "signed" on for the military its their own business, and the the people who praise them for their " thoughtless heroism" are just plain annoying. These people signed up to fight for their countries, no one forced them to die, or get wounded in action. These people thought about going into the military, many because of the G.I. bill and school being paid for. On the other hand, if they didn't sign up for this kind of duty our country would be in a serious mess. Our military is the strongest in the world, and its because of laws and bills , shown as incentives. This shouldnt be the case. If someone wants to die for their country, or fight, they should'nt receicve incentives to do it. It should be because they have the balls to do it. call me what you will but thats my thought.


I think that anyone who chooses to put their life on the line to defend this (or any) country is deserving of the highest praise, as well as significant benefits. After all, gung ho heroic praise aside, do you really think that large numbers will sign up for that kind of duty without incentives? Yes, for many, it's a risk/benefit decision, whereby they'll be able to get an education and have an easier time affording housing, but that doesn't belittle the work that they do.

Personally, I'm always slightly amused by the inevitable haughty replies to anything resembling criticism of the military:

"You're able to criticize your country because of them! In other countries, you'd be shot on site for that!" etc.

Yes, we get it, Patrick Henry. It's almost as if they so dislike the freedom to criticize, so the next best thing they can do is pedantically remind others anytime it's exercised. I think at this point, that most everyone understands that not every nation offers the freedom of expression that we enjoy here. But, sometimes, resting on laurels and pretending that all is good seems even more unpatriotic than speaking out in protest.
iceman7570
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:45:55 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 8/10/2011
Posts: 21
Location: United States
We signed up knowing the risk. Those innocent people in New York didn't go to work thinking there was any kind of risk.
Pvt. Mike Armendariz-Clark, USMC; Afghanastan, 20 September 2001
As reported on page 1 of the New York Times
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 3:15:32 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
Sgt. C. ..2 tours operation enduring freedom 2002 ...operation iraqi freedom extended tour 2003 2004
(11B Infantry) (88M Transportation)
our lives we risk for our fight for freedom
petersr
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:44:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 50
Location: St. Petersburgh, United States
USMC Retired

1965 & on, a lot of war. A lot of losing friends.
Married, 5 kids, 6 grandkids.

They're all free to live the American Dream. THANK A VET.... I just didn't do it for me, I did it for them & you.
I don't want praise, just a nod & smile to all of the vets, still giving their lives for your freedom.
kneedeep98
Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:34:49 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 1/1/2012
Posts: 19
Location: United States
With a son in the service, serving two deployments in Iraq and two in Afghanistan I agree that our service women and men deserve out upmost respect. They do what they do for us and our families. God bless them.
Jonnymarine
Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:45:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 66
LadyX wrote:


Except for here in Texas, where kids have to pledge to both the US and the f***ing Texas flag, too! I had to choke back a little vomit just to state that, but unfortunately it's true. But what do you expect? This is the state that has elected Rick Perry as governor multiple times.


UNFORTUNATELY!!!!! I am a Marine. I have friends who are over seas right now defending your right to even have this conversations. Yes the military hasn't always been used with the highest scruples in mind but that doesn't mean we don't defend your f***ing freedom. I wasn't ever "forced" to say the pledge of allegiance. I proudly said it. Its a sad world where young American citizens aren't willing to say the pledge of allegiance anymore. It's really sad...

Lance Corporal Jonathan Oosterhouse USMC
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:53:42 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
Why is it unfortunate that you're a Marine?

I have no issue with service members, as you might have picked up from my post. Nor do I have a problem with the US Pledge of Allegiance as long as it's not forced on anyone, though that might not have been as clear. I do have a giant problem with a state pledge of allegiance, though. That's just stupid.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:12:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,068
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
Why is it unfortunate that you're a Marine?

I have no issue with service members, as you might have picked up from my post. Nor do I have a problem with the US Pledge of Allegiance as long as it's not forced on anyone, though that might not have been as clear. I do have a giant problem with a state pledge of allegiance, though. That's just stupid.


I thought Texas was its own country. To hear the way Texans talk it is...

LadyX
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:42:29 AM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


I thought Texas was its own country. To hear the way Texans talk it is...


Ugh. Some people here really do act that way, and those people are a beating.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:05:05 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
This is the Chef getting down on her knees and thanking the FSM that she's out of that state.
Sorry Ladyx. evil4
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:10:03 AM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
chefkathleen wrote:
This is the Chef getting down on her knees and thanking the FSM that she's out of that state.
Sorry Ladyx. evil4


LOL no apologies necessary. If not for the people around me, I'd have made roadrunner tracks out of here by now for sure!
Jonnymarine
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:26:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 66
It's not unfortunate that I'm am marine. I was incredulous at the fact that you said its unfortunate that students have to say the pledge of alegiance. You're right it should be forced but then it shouldn't have to be because everyone should be willing to say it. As for the state pledge if allegiance I have no arguments with that.
MissyLuvsYa
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:33:10 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 538
Location: somewhere on the coast, United States
My dad was a US Marine Corp officer so I am very supportive of our military. They shed their blood to keep us free.

LadyX I saw your response on Texas. LOL girl...those Texans... I think since they were once actually the independent sovereign country, The Republic of Texas, may have something to do with their attitude. We Louisianans have had to put up with them a long time and now I find myself living in Texas and engaged to one. Pray for me! LOL

PS. So far I can out shoot any Texan I've met. A Louisiana girl showing them up sure is sweet!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2012 11:53:02 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
I just left active duty and my Husband is still active duty and deployed on his 4th tour and I did 2 myself. I'm sorry but I have shed my share of blood, sweat and tears. And those who say women don't see combat, go fuck yourself. I am 31B, been on rades, a MA DUECE gunner. I have mental, emotional and physical scars.Yes we get the GI Bill, we get vetrans benifits, we get signing bonuses, but did you thats how they keep us in. If not you would have a continueus inexperienced Military. We've been fighting the very terror that made you all buy flags and shirts saying I love America 10 years ago. I signed on the line. We are the 1%. So enjoy your Gap tshirt you all ready thru out. The average E4 and below would live at or below the poverty line in the private sector. Those are the soldiers in the dust and mud. We are a all vonlunter service. I don't know about you but I get choked up everytime I hear our National Anthem, if you can't stand behind America's Sons and Daughters, Fathers and Mothers, Brothers and Sisters; feel free to stand in front of them. To my fellow Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Seamen, I salute you, and stand proudly along your side.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2012 7:39:46 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,068
Location: United States
UrDirtyMother wrote:
I just left active duty and my Husband is still active duty and deployed on his 4th tour and I did 2 myself. I'm sorry but I have shed my share of blood, sweat and tears. And those who say women don't see combat, go fuck yourself. I am 31B, been on rades, a MA DUECE gunner. I have mental, emotional and physical scars.Yes we get the GI Bill, we get vetrans benifits, we get signing bonuses, but did you thats how they keep us in. If not you would have a continueus inexperienced Military. We've been fighting the very terror that made you all buy flags and shirts saying I love America 10 years ago. I signed on the line. We are the 1%. So enjoy your Gap tshirt you all ready thru out. The average E4 and below would live at or below the poverty line in the private sector. Those are the soldiers in the dust and mud. We are a all vonlunter service. I don't know about you but I get choked up everytime I hear our National Anthem, if you can't stand behind America's Sons and Daughters, Fathers and Mothers, Brothers and Sisters; feel free to stand in front of them. To my fellow Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Seamen, I salute you, and stand proudly along your side.


Damn. God Bless, hon, and please tell your husband that some faceless dude on the internet says "Hi, and keep your head down."

stefani88
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:59:44 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 2/13/2012
Posts: 1
Jezziebelle wrote:
... and yet all of you posting replies to this undoubtedly enjoy and completely underappreciate the amount of freedom you have.

In many countries even having this conversation would be considered treason and could land you in prison or worse. Especially as a woman, and one who has served in that very military that you are questioning, I completely appreciate what is going on around the world. Most of the time when you are talking about war or other events in the world that you see on the news you are seeing a biased or incomplete version of the truth. The media doesn't care about the truth, they care about being published/viewed and making money.

When our men and women enlist in the military they are signing a blank check to the government and it's citizens worth up to and including the price of their lives. Sometimes it is difficult to see the direct relationship of their actions to our rights here, but I would argue that the general public is not privvy to most of the intelligence and information that drives foreign policy and military action decisions. So before you discuss whether or not the military is really defending American freedoms, try living a day in our shoes, seeing what we see, and doing what we do.

Most of us agree that WWII was necessary to defend our freedoms at home and yet that war was fought in other countries as well. We were attacked at Pearl Harbor, yes, but the rest of the war was fought overseas.

We were attacked on 9/11. It might have been 10 years ago, but it still happened. Sometimes I wish they would replay the news coverage from that day so that people don't lose sight of what happened and the people that were lost. ON AMERICAN SOIL. So yes, I will fight overseas if it even has a chance of preventing another attack HERE. To me, THAT is defending American freedom.

Thank you so much for your post.

__________________
Watch Red Tails Online for Free
Juicyme
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:30:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/7/2011
Posts: 177
Location: between a rock and grad school applications, Unite
I respect and support our the US troops as well as respect the troops of other countries because I'd never sign up to serve in anyone's military. However, I think the whole "fighting for your freedom" is a loaded phrase; Intended to invoke a pang of guilt and insincere patriotism when someone openly disagrees with policy/public opinion/action taken. I understand the frustration that service members may have about the masses seeming ungrateful or forgetful of their service. However, not everyone wishes to pledge their allegiance to a piece of fabric. Not everyone is going to agree with why the military fights. There will be quite a few people that are apathetic to the entire thing. But that's their right to do that. Now for those saying that the troops are fighting for Americans to keep their freedom, as devil's advocate, I'm pretty sure that our constitutional rights have been reaffirmed through court battles and not in any war...

My uncle has served in not only the NAVy but he has retired from the Army. I've had cousins, uncles and friends die in battle, so I'm not a stranger to what military families go through. The term "fighting for your freedom" annoys me.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:20:28 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
Buz wrote:
But nevertheless I do dream of isolationist politics and a military that stays out of everyone's business. It is just a dream. A fantasy really.


It is a dream, and you gotta be asleep for those thoughts to actually mean anything to you. You are not alone in at least realizing it and everything else...is a dream that's been sold to you since you were just learning to speak, listen and comprehend the language.



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Buz
Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 12:41:42 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,174
Location: Atlanta, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


It is a dream, and you gotta be asleep for those thoughts to actually mean anything to you. You are not alone in at least realizing it and everything else...is a dream that's been sold to you since you were just learning to speak, listen and comprehend the language.



You sent me that video a few of months back WMM. It makes an excellent and true point. The huge corporations own the government. Public education in America mainly wants to create obedient submissive sheep and is designed to do just that. How many people are educated enough to truly understand economics and recognize the fact that Obama is almost a clone of Bush. Obama is still suing Bush's bank bailout plan. In fact the two came up with that together after the general election and before Obama was sworn in. It actually was well documented at the time but no one paid attention. The people indebted to the banks are not helped at all by this program but the big bankers have become even richer under it. Has anyone ever wondered why Democratic congressman are actually slightly richer on average than Republican congressman? Does anyone notice that the welfare & food stamp system or designed to keep people down and under the government thumb? The Democrat left and the Republican right are just two approaches to the same goal but people keep voting these same crooks back into office. Big government and the big corporations are one, they are unified and intertwined elements of the same body!

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

latinfoxy
Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:27:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
chefkathleen wrote:


I don't think isolationist policies are the way to go completely Buz. There's a lot of crazy fucks out there that we need to keep a close eye on and we can't do it from Washington D.C. or Los Angeles. Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, China, and at least ten other countries with crazy leaders that would dance in the street to see us and our allies wiped out. Give them a chance to build a nuclear weapon and it will be done and used before you can say Ron Paul.


wow you just made me put myself in the shoes of those people that live in the countries that have been at war and bombed by the US and it just makes me wonder if its ok to kill, injure, leave people without homes, been refugees, breaking families of innocent people in the name of the "safety" of one country.

i dont know if you can name one country, besides Japan, that the US have had a war with, that have actually as a country have attacked the US.

Yes Venezuela does have a crazy leader, i hate him with all i got, i wish that soon we can get rid of him. But are you saying its ok that because he is crazy i could die or my family could die because the US feels that they need to start a war with us?

Ps: you do know that the only Nuclear bomb that has ever been used, was used by the US, in a very catty vindictive way if i may add (you had already won that war when you used it) so i say stop crying wolf when the real wolves are you!
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 2:04:26 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
Buz wrote:

The Democrat left and the Republican right are just two approaches to the same goal but people keep voting these same crooks back into office. Big government and the big corporations are one, they are unified and intertwined elements of the same body!


I'm fairly well convinced of this, too. The issues of difference are somewhat trivial in comparison with the 'machine' that most elected officials (at the national level, anyway) are ultimately beholden to. But it's those comparative trivial issues that force me to choose the lesser of two evils when it comes to voting. Neither of our two major parties are anywhere in the vicinity of virtuous, but unfortunately, the other choices seem to exist somewhere in the realm straddling unrealistic and extremist.

Even back when some people pretended that the Tea Party wasn't just an arm of the Republican Party, masquerading as a 'movement', you had to wade through a waist-high morass of nativism, implied racism, religious activists, wacky creationist types, and militant undertones in order to find the common ground when it comes to libertarian principles.

Ron Paul speaks a lot of truth. I just find some of his truths a bit crazy.


Guest
Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:06:50 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
Bringing up the us military in a forum is akin to dropping a match in a tub of gas.

that being said.

There is in my opinion, absolutely no statement more loaded then "defending your freedom".

Yes, people sign up for the military, I am one of them; 21B Combat Engineer, toured in Iraq, returned last year. It sucked. Could I tell you what i was doing over there was defending freedom? nope. I couldn't. Could just be i'm not high enough on the food chain as a Specialist to get the bigger picture. I got my orders i followed them, and just thanked god every time a mission didn't get fucked up. Am i proud to serve? Yeah. But ultimately we service members are doing whats expected of us. We follow orders, just like any other job/career. We don't there are repercussions, just like any other job. All businesses are volunteer run. No one tells you where you work or what to do. people make those choices. Our jobs just have the added consequence of possibly demanding our life. It does give you the best friends you'll ever get though. I would gladly give up anything for anyone i have served with if they needed it.

In my opinion, the only time i would say i was defending the freedom of Americans, would be if the states them selves were at war with another country or under a direct attack. The 9/11 attacks actually inspired me to join up. i almost lost family in the attack on the pentagon, a friend of mine lost a sister in NY.

Having our troops stationed overseas to keep an eye on "rouge nations" is fifty fifty for me. fact is, should we have a nation that proves a credible threat to us directly, we could crush them in an extremely short amount of time. That is more defending our regional interests then our actual freedom.

but I'm not a subject matter expert on this, just my two cents.

Patriotism is a well intended, extremely misplaced concept, that is very much abused.
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 8:59:52 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
latinfoxy wrote:


wow you just made me put myself in the shoes of those people that live in the countries that have been at war and bombed by the US and it just makes me wonder if its ok to kill, injure, leave people without homes, been refugees, breaking families of innocent people in the name of the "safety" of one country.

i dont know if you can name one country, besides Japan, that the US have had a war with, that have actually as a country have attacked the US.

Yes Venezuela does have a crazy leader, i hate him with all i got, i wish that soon we can get rid of him. But are you saying its ok that because he is crazy i could die or my family could die because the US feels that they need to start a war with us?

Ps: you do know that the only Nuclear bomb that has ever been used, was used by the US, in a very catty vindictive way if i may add (you had already won that war when you used it) so i say stop crying wolf when the real wolves are you!


Bombing Pearl Harbor and flying planes into buildings in NYC is a direct attack, yes. But so is bombing US embassies in other countries. Attacking and/or bombing ships that are registered in our country. Harming Americans in other countries, etc. It's an attack on the citizens of our country. We also have other countries as friends. Allies they're called. If they're attacked, we try to help them as well. It's more complicated that just you being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Then again, sometimes it's just that simple.
This may clear it up for you somewhat.

Quote:
(1) the term “international terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;
(2) the term “national of the United States” has the meaning given such term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act;
(3) the term “person” means any individual or entity capable of holding a legal or beneficial interest in property;
(4) the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of—
(A) declared war;
(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or
(C) armed conflict between military forces of any origin; and
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.


You should also look up when Hirohito signed the surrender papers. It was AFTER we bombed them. Not before. We hadn't won the war yet.
latinfoxy
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:19:48 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
chefkathleen wrote:

Bombing Pearl Harbor and flying planes into buildings in NYC is a direct attack, yes. But so is bombing US embassies in other countries. Attacking and/or bombing ships that are registered in our country. Harming Americans in other countries, etc. It's an attack on the citizens of our country. We also have other countries as friends. Allies they're called. If they're attacked, we try to help them as well. It's more complicated that just you being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Then again, sometimes it's just that simple.
This may clear it up for you somewhat.

Quote:
(1) the term “international terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;
(2) the term “national of the United States” has the meaning given such term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act;
(3) the term “person” means any individual or entity capable of holding a legal or beneficial interest in property;
(4) the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of—
(A) declared war;
(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or
(C) armed conflict between military forces of any origin; and
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.


You should also look up when Hirohito signed the surrender papers. It was AFTER we bombed them. Not before. We hadn't won the war yet.



i said beside bombing pearlharbor, i also said that a country directly attacked you, the 9/11 was never proven to be done by a country and you still started what 2 wars with 2 diferent countries because of it. Also the part of Hirohito signed thing you know it semantics, you had already won the war the papers just werent signed yet and all this years after people there still suffer the consecuences for your desition.

You have got to be kidding me with that list right? come on while reading it i was like check check check, ALL those things are done BY the US also, so is this a double standard? its ok if you guys do it but how dare you if its another country right? LOL

Hey im not against the US i have family that lives there, i go there all the time, but when you point your finger at my country and say we should start a war with them because their leader its a crazy fucck ass. Then we HAVE a problem. Its very easy to say this war is for my security when you know its not your llife or the life of your family the one that is gonna suffer the consecuences!

Also you said that the people that live in this countries would go to the streets and celebrate if something happen to the US, are you really that miss informed? i say you should stop watching Fox News.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:40:44 AM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,659
Location: United States
No country that jockeys for economic strength, or that maintains a strong military and global presence, is truly virtuous (and I'm not sure about the ones that don't, for that matter), though many maintain a giant ongoing propaganda campaign to the contrary. It's easier to sell the idea that actions taken are done for vaguely good and virtuous reasons without getting into the contradicting facts and details. Chef and I live in one such country, and I'm sure Venezuela's leader constantly sells the same schtick.
latinfoxy
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:47:40 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
LadyX wrote:
No country that jockeys for economic strength, or that maintains a strong military and global presence, is truly virtuous (and I'm not sure about the ones that don't, for that matter), though many maintain a giant ongoing propaganda campaign to the contrary. It's easier to sell the idea that actions taken are done for vaguely good and virtuous reasons without getting into the contradicting facts and details. Chef and I live in one such country, and I'm sure Venezuela's leader constantly sells the same schtick.


My point exactly, are you just gonna swallow all the bullshit that is send your way? or are you actually gonna use your brain and think are we really doing this for the right reasons or just to gain more power?

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:54:16 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 5,971
Location: In your dirty fantasies
No war is started against another country for the benefit of the oppressed people living there, because they're not a democracy, because they don't have freedom, because the leader is crazy or so that women can go to school and not live under tyranny. I get annoyed when that is tossed around as a motivation for war as though in some altruistic way anybody gives a shit about a country's internal plight unless it benefits them in some way. If this was a case, something would have been done to stop the multiple genocides that have been going on in Africa for decades. Nobody cares though - because it doesn't benefit or impact any country in position to do something about it.

Wars are started for greed - oil, valuable resources, furthering a political agenda. Just having a crazy leader is basically irrelevant.

Terrorists and nuclear weapons are the perfect rational for hyping fear. The fear of a random unprovoked nuclear attack from a country against the US is unfounded and vice versa. Terrorists are organizations that cross border-boundaries - they are everywhere - in every country. US embassies get attacked in many countries from terrorist cells within those countries, often by people who are native to them. A terrorist organization is NOT a country. You cannot effectively go to war against terrorism or a religion - neither are contained. You can, however, build momentum and anger within these groups with poor strategies.

I have the utmost respect for anyone that chooses to put their lives on the line for their country's military agenda. What I dislike is a government not giving them ALL the facts and being upfront about what they're doing, how they plan to achieve it and why. Let these people make a completely informed decision before blood is spilled. Waving the "Freedom Flag" as a catch-all reason just doesn't cut it. This isn't a knock against the military - it's in defence of the military.

When the government is seen as infallible and God-like and their agenda is obeyed without question - that is the very opposite of freedom.


WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:13:05 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:
Ron Paul speaks a lot of truth. I just find some of his truths a bit crazy.


Please accept my belated apologies (I should have mentioned this maybe when I posted that Carlin video snippet). Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find that particular 3:15 second Carlin observation, without it being glommed onto by either a Ron Paul supporter, or an OWS supporter or some other movement which wishes to use his words and affix themselves to Carlin's truths.

Carlin passed on in 2008, before we had the Koch created TeaPartiers or the 99% OWS creation. It doesn't mean that what Carlin has said since 2001 isn't right...it means a lot of varied people with widely divergent points of view, believe that George Carlin from his early 60s to his early 70s...

Was speaking truth to power...and he was the one voice which actually has been for the last decade. Carlin had no agenda, he was just enjoying the ride and he knew he was closer to the end than the beginning. He'd seen a bunch of bullshit in this country...starting in the 1960s til the year of his demise.

It is all a fucking game, it's rigged and there are none of us in that special club - pulling the strings of the puppets we think we elect to represent us.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 07, 2012 3:53:45 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,633
latinfoxy wrote:


i said beside bombing pearlharbor, i also said that a country directly attacked you, the 9/11 was never proven to be done by a country and you still started what 2 wars with 2 diferent countries because of it. Also the part of Hirohito signed thing you know it semantics, you had already won the war the papers just werent signed yet and all this years after people there still suffer the consecuences for your desition.

You have got to be kidding me with that list right? come on while reading it i was like check check check, ALL those things are done BY the US also, so is this a double standard? its ok if you guys do it but how dare you if its another country right? LOL

Hey im not against the US i have family that lives there, i go there all the time, but when you point your finger at my country and say we should start a war with them because their leader its a crazy fucck ass. Then we HAVE a problem. Its very easy to say this war is for my security when you know its not your llife or the life of your family the one that is gonna suffer the consecuences!

Also you said that the people that live in this countries would go to the streets and celebrate if something happen to the US, are you really that miss informed? i say you should stop watching Fox News.


I guess you missed the point and I really don't care if you HAVE a problem with me or my country. I do not watch Fox news. Where you get your information is clearly missing something as I'm pretty sure you are too. I've listened to your "president" talk about his country and the ones he doesn't like and what he'd like to do to them.I didn't say anything about starting a war with him or his country. But, I can tell you if he jumps on his crazy train and points it at us or our allies, we'll be glad to slap him down like the fool he acts like in doing so. I've also been to other countries where I have seen dancing in the streets when an American is killed. Ever seen any footage from Sept. 11 '01?
The codes of law I quoted I thought might make it easier for you to understand US laws. It's from a Cornell University law code book.
As for Hirohito and the surrender signing. Look it up. Talk to people that were of that era and time. Read a history book. It will explain it better than I can. Where you get the idea that the war was over before we dropped the bombs is a mystery to me. But, then again, I'm not living in your country either.
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.