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New Healthy Menus Lead to Deficit of $700,000 Options · View
Rembacher
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:26:51 PM

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The Ontario government brought in a rule last fall banning foods high in fat, sodium, and sugar from school cafeterias in an effort to improve the health of Ontario students. The idea being that if we want healthier students, it doesn't make sense to teach them nutrition, then contradict that and serve them burgers every day for lunch. However, the plan has not went over well with the students so far, and the Toronto District School Board is expecting to lose $700,000 this year from its cafeterias. They claim students just don't want healthy foods, the Premier of Ontario contends that they aren't marketing the healthy foods properly. One student in this article suggests the students were never asked what kinds of foods they like, so there could be a case for market research needing to be done. But is it possible to convince high school students to eat healthy cafeteria foods when there are fast food options in the neighbourhood? Was this a good idea that just didn't work in reality? Can this work? Or should this be abandoned? What say you?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/02/02/toronto-school-cafeterias-students-foods.html
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:57:27 AM

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I think like most efforts to make ourselves healthy the TDSB may have gone overboard. Or ast least went at it too hard too fast. The Premier says they "aren't marketing healthy foods properly". How about just limiting unhealthy food. Not all food can be necessarily labelled as "healthy" or "unhealthy". Sure, chicken nuggets, corndogs, fried fish sticks, and alot of other crap is obviously unhealthy. But if they (and i don't know what "healthy" foods they put on the menu) change over night from that to tofu burgers, brussel sprouts, salads, and bean sprouts... overnight then there will be resistance. Instead they should focus on a balanced meal.

When I was a kid (you know, back in the olden times) we very rarely these crappy/easy to prepare crappy foods. I don't htink I was ever served chicken nuggets/tenders at school. In fact, my school cafeteria served some damn good and tasty food. Here are some of the things that I can remember having for lunch. Spaghetti, lasagna, gumbo, PB&J sandwich with vegetable soup, meatloaf, hamburgers, beef stew, beef tips, chicken fricasse (which is chicken in a thin brown gravy, delicious). Living in the midst of Catholic country, which I'm not btw, we'd have fish sticks on Fridays during Lent. So for about 6 weeks we'd have fish sticks once a week. But all of those above dishes may not be defined as "healthy". But the portions were healthy. And of course all of that stuff was paired with a veggie. Usually corn, green beans, carrots, lima beans, mustard/collard greens, spinach. Sometimes I ate the veggie, sometimes I didn't. Along with the veggie we'd get either a small salad or some kind of fruit. Usually peaches or pears. Oh yea, my middle school had the best fricking lunch rolls known to man. Mmm

Then after we ate we were able to go out to recess and burn off some of those calories. If schools would just cook some REAL food, and offer a balanced meal with protein, carb, veggie/fruit the kids would eat. It would be better than the no skill required corndog brigade that schools are using now. If kids eat crap at home, which most do, force feeding them stuff that has never touched their palate is not going to work. Great idea to get kids to eat healthy, but kids are fickle. I don't say abandon it, but maybe tweak it. Give the kids some familiar food like spaghetti, but have something like broccoli as a side. Maybe incentiveize trying the healthier side dishes?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:44:43 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
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lafayettemister wrote:
I think like most efforts to make ourselves healthy the TDSB may have gone overboard. Or ast least went at it too hard too fast. The Premier says they "aren't marketing healthy foods properly". How about just limiting unhealthy food. Not all food can be necessarily labelled as "healthy" or "unhealthy". Sure, chicken nuggets, corndogs, fried fish sticks, and alot of other crap is obviously unhealthy. But if they (and i don't know what "healthy" foods they put on the menu) change over night from that to tofu burgers, brussel sprouts, salads, and bean sprouts... overnight then there will be resistance. Instead they should focus on a balanced meal.

When I was a kid (you know, back in the olden times) we very rarely these crappy/easy to prepare crappy foods. I don't htink I was ever served chicken nuggets/tenders at school. In fact, my school cafeteria served some damn good and tasty food. Here are some of the things that I can remember having for lunch. Spaghetti, lasagna, gumbo, PB&J sandwich with vegetable soup, meatloaf, hamburgers, beef stew, beef tips, chicken fricasse (which is chicken in a thin brown gravy, delicious). Living in the midst of Catholic country, which I'm not btw, we'd have fish sticks on Fridays during Lent. So for about 6 weeks we'd have fish sticks once a week. But all of those above dishes may not be defined as "healthy". But the portions were healthy. And of course all of that stuff was paired with a veggie. Usually corn, green beans, carrots, lima beans, mustard/collard greens, spinach. Sometimes I ate the veggie, sometimes I didn't. Along with the veggie we'd get either a small salad or some kind of fruit. Usually peaches or pears. Oh yea, my middle school had the best fricking lunch rolls known to man. Mmm

Then after we ate we were able to go out to recess and burn off some of those calories. If schools would just cook some REAL food, and offer a balanced meal with protein, carb, veggie/fruit the kids would eat. It would be better than the no skill required corndog brigade that schools are using now. If kids eat crap at home, which most do, force feeding them stuff that has never touched their palate is not going to work. Great idea to get kids to eat healthy, but kids are fickle. I don't say abandon it, but maybe tweak it. Give the kids some familiar food like spaghetti, but have something like broccoli as a side. Maybe incentiveize trying the healthier side dishes?


I tend to agree with all of this. But, ideally, make school lunch mandatory unless they bring their lunch. You can help control food intake by taking away the fast food options.

As a side note, you're a lucky dude, LM. My school food always tasted like shit.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:53:50 AM

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I agree with you two. Also, if they take away the ability to leave campus for lunch, McD's wouldn't be getting the business either.
Time is a big factor as well. There's one school on the Gulf coast here that has so many students that they literally have 15 minutes or less to get their food and eat. WTH?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:58:22 AM

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Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


I tend to agree with all of this. But, ideally, make school lunch mandatory unless they bring their lunch. You can help control food intake by taking away the fast food options.

As a side note, you're a lucky dude, LM. My school food always tasted like shit.


When I was a kid, one wall of our cafeteria was lined with these giant gallon-size cans of food - mostly peanut butter. The cans were all stenciled with US Army codes and dated well back into the WWII years. Needless to say, we had peanut butter sandwiches (without the jelly) at least two times a week.

Buz
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:04:48 AM

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Location: Atlanta, United States
They will have to pry that corndog from my cold dead fingers!

I think public schools should provide the tastiest healthy meal as possible and a variety to choose from. They certainly tax us enough to provide this. Parents should be free to pack a lunch for their children if they want to.

If there is a deficit, take the money away from the overpaid administration. I know for sure there is too much fat in that administrative menu.

Nikki703
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:05:37 AM

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Location: The Other Side Of The Mirror
LadyX wrote:


I tend to agree with all of this. But, ideally, make school lunch mandatory unless they bring their lunch. You can help control food intake by taking away the fast food options.

As a side note, you're a lucky dude, LM. My school food always tasted like shit.


I also agree with most everything LM said.

My school lunch was usually pretty awful too. But in my daughters highschool, the lunches are actually pretty healthy and taste ok. The probelm there is they still have vending machines that sell things like candy, chips and other non-healthy snacks. And the kids are allowed to go off campus to get lunch and there are several fast food places within walking distance. Luckily for me my daughter is sort of a health nut when it comes to food.

And the Elementary and Middle Schools in my town serve similar lunches and the kids do have a recess period to go run of the calories.

Healthy school lunches should be mandatory, parents need to take more interest in what is available for their kids to eat in school and also need to make sure their kids exercise too. When I was a kid, we always would play outdoors all day. Granted there was no internet and video games sucked (still do IMO). But today, kids much rather sit in front of a computer playing games or surfing the web then going out and playing sports. People say I am crazy when I say Facebook is killing Americas kids, but I stand by it!! I know the probelm has been around since before Facebook, but kids spend way too much time sitting on their asses.

Sorry for going off on a tangent!!
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:55:08 AM

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I believe that candy and soft drink vending machines should not be in schools. I also believe that physical education classes should be required. Make those kids exercise.

If kids are getting fat and lazy it is usually because they have parents too lazy to do live up to their parental duties!

lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:23:18 AM

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I do not think anyone should be able to leave school grounds to eat lunch. That's insane, what would the liability be is someone were hurt or killed at lunch at Burger King. All students must eat at school. Either bring your lunch from home or eat what the serve in the cafeteria.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:05:52 PM

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Buz wrote:
I believe that candy and soft drink vending machines should not be in schools. I also believe that physical education classes should be required. Make those kids exercise.

If kids are getting fat and lazy it is usually because they have parents too lazy to do live up to their parental duties!



I agree 100% with this. Plus, if you don't know what your kid is eating and what it tastes like, drop in and have lunch with them one day. Tell them you're coming or text them or however you speak to you child, and then do it. My parents did in every grade level with me and it wasn't easy for my dad. He was a structural engineer and it wasn't easy to just up and go to have lunch with his kid.
Parents are so effing lazy now.
rxtales
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:54:17 AM

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Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom
My boarding school had horrible food. We had the option of fried potatoes three times a day with some sort of fried meat. Gross. I do not get how pizza and French fries is a meal. They tried to go healthy once but that just meant horribly gross boiled cabbage. They went from one extreme to the other.

It doesn't have to be super healthy kid-unfriendly food. Then they won't eat it. But something like lasagne with veg or stew with veg or something like that. Tasty and not all that unhealthy. My friends brother goes to a school where the lunch comes from a posh organic store, like whole foods. There's no way kids are going to want to eat lend olds they can't pronounce for lunch.
mercianknight
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:03:05 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:
I do not think anyone should be able to leave school grounds to eat lunch. That's insane, what would the liability be is someone were hurt or killed at lunch at Burger King. All students must eat at school. Either bring your lunch from home or eat what the serve in the cafeteria.


Exactly. That's the approach my daughters school has taken and it helps. coffee

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:57:08 AM

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How's this for a kick in the pants. In North Carolina, a 4 yr old was forced to eat a school lunch because a USDA agent happened to be on site that day. Inspecting lunches. He determined that the lunch her mother had made and packed from home did not meet USDA guidelines for a school lunch. The rejected meal consisted of a turkey/cheese sandwich, banana, potato chips, and apple juice. Since the USDA requirements state, "state that a lunch must consist of one serving of meat, one serving of milk, one serving of grain, and two servings of fruit or vegetables, even if the lunches are brought from home." the meal was deemed unhealthy because it did not contain a serving of vegetable. Her home meal was denied and instead she was given the school's lunch offering for the day. CHICKEN NUGGETS! WTF?!

How in the world is it ok for a government official to tell a parent what/how to feed their own child? When did the USDA become the overseer of parenting? A spokesperson for the Dept of Children Development said the inspector was incorrect. Guidelines state that a lunch must have a vegetable OR a fruit. The lack of vegetable should not have disqualified the girl's lunch. Here's the link...


Girl's homemade lunch replaced with chicken nuggets


edit... the mom could have sent a dog shit sandwich, deep fried twinkies, candy corn, and Mountain Dew to school for the kid's lunch. The USDA should have NO input in what a parent decides to feed her child.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:01:24 PM

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I saw this on CNN last night and about shit my pants. But, I did hear the school said it was in the wrong and apologized. 'Natch the media blew it all outta proportion. Bet they'll think twice before doing that again.
1curiouscat
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:37:11 PM

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Location: São Paulo , Brazil
lafayettemister wrote:
I do not think anyone should be able to leave school grounds to eat lunch. That's insane, what would the liability be is someone were hurt or killed at lunch at Burger King. All students must eat at school. Either bring your lunch from home or eat what the serve in the cafeteria.


My high school had an open campus policy. We were never obligated to be on campus at any time. I guess they considered a bunch of dumb teenagers mature enough to decide to stay in school if they felt like it. Of course, I spent all my free time perusing in the parking lot of making runs to a local fast food / sandwich joint (pun intended) or the record store, or a friends house. My HS had total of 800 students and the city we lived in was incredibly safe. I'm not sure what the policy is today and I'm trailing off a bit...

Overall I thought the open campus policy was absolutely awesome. I was able to eat way healthier then the rectangle pizza slices or the everyday available french fries and nuggets combos. I never thought about the liability issue, but thankfully nothing ever happened that would put that issue in the forefront.



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Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:42:19 PM

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My high school was like that too. Grade school, at least for grade 7 and 8, required a note from my parents to head downtown for lunch, but that still meant we were allowed to go down town. Not that we had a cafeteria in grade school. You had to bring your own lunch if you wanted to eat.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:58:29 PM

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I think the key lies in something you said Fernando. You were all over the place and not sitting in one spot only. You can eat whatever you want as long as you're expending more calories than you take in. Sitting on your ass all the time does not do that.

Jeb, I can't imagine school kids not having a cafeteria to eat in/at. Providing lunches I mean.
Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:03:18 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
Jeb, I can't imagine school kids not having a cafeteria to eat in/at. Providing lunches I mean.


I didn't even think about it when I started this thread. I don't know how the bigger city schools work in Ontario, but from kindergarten until the end of grade 8, in two different school systems in two different counties, we always ate lunches in our classrooms, and it was always food we brought.
nicola
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:20:43 PM

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http://www.jamieoliver.com/school-dinners

The series is intriguing.

You can easily eat healthily for the same price.
1curiouscat
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:40:53 PM

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nicola wrote:
http://www.jamieoliver.com/school-dinners

The series is intriguing.

You can easily eat healthily for the same price.


I saw one where he went inside american schools and tried to "change things from within". Ill try to find it and post a link here.



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Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:37:26 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:
How's this for a kick in the pants. In North Carolina, a 4 yr old was forced to eat a school lunch because a USDA agent happened to be on site that day. Inspecting lunches. He determined that the lunch her mother had made and packed from home did not meet USDA guidelines for a school lunch. The rejected meal consisted of a turkey/cheese sandwich, banana, potato chips, and apple juice.


Chicken nuggets get about 60% of their calories from fat. A turkey sandwich is much healthier than deep fried chicken goo. Have you ever seen the meat that chicken nuggets are made from? This sounds to me like the school is trying to discourage people from sending their kid's lunch. Some kids are really picky eaters. I was. Our primary school had a choice of whatever entrée they were serving or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I ate peanut butter and jelly almost every day. I never ate a salad. I drank chocolate milk because it was offered as a choice. I always ate the chicken nuggets when we had them though.

nicola
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:42:36 PM

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1curiouscat wrote:


I saw one where he went inside american schools and tried to "change things from within". Ill try to find it and post a link here.


He thought he could change the way American children eat by using the same tactics as he did in the UK. It was very amusing actually.

The first thing he did in the UK school, was to get all the chicken innards, the head, legs, blood, neck, everything, and put it in a blender. Then he shaped it into drumsticks, covered it in flour and deep fried it. He offered it to the kids, and they all went, "ew, no way, ick."

He did the same thing in the US, offered it to one of the kids, and he took it. Oliver asked him why he'd even consider eating it, after seeing what it was made of, and the chunky little boy said. "because I'm hungy" LOL.
1curiouscat
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2012 4:40:15 AM

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nicola wrote:


He thought he could change the way American children eat by using the same tactics as he did in the UK. It was very amusing actually.

The first thing he did in the UK school, was to get all the chicken innards, the head, legs, blood, neck, everything, and put it in a blender. Then he shaped it into drumsticks, covered it in flour and deep fried it. He offered it to the kids, and they all went, "ew, no way, ick."

He did the same thing in the US, offered it to one of the kids, and he took it. Oliver asked him why he'd even consider eating it, after seeing what it was made of, and the chunky little boy said. "because I'm hungy" LOL.


Thats hilarous! I think this is the "experiment" you are talking about: (his face is priceless at the end)











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lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:50:55 AM

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The Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act of 2010 is now being implemented into schools. According to one school district in the Houston, Tx area all students eating a school provided meal must have 1/2 cup fruit and 1/2 vegetable on their plate. If a student reaches the end of the line and has not selected an appropriate lunch containing 1/2 cup fruit and 1/2 cup veggies, he/she must pay a $1 fine.

When asked why the Cy-Fair Nutrition Service would implement a fine they responded that all school lunches are subsidized by the USDA, if a student's meal does not meet the standards set by the above act, the school loses the subsidy for that meal. Forcing them to recoup the loss elsewhere, i.e. the student. Here's the link to Cy-Fair Nutrition Services

I'm all for healthier school lunches, but this isn't the way to go. I know for sure that my son hates most vegetables, and he really isnt fond of the syrupy fruits that are most often served for lunch. He does like fresh fruit, thankfully. So in this new system he'd be forced to get a serving of spinach or broccoli or whatever even if he doesn't want it. And then it will go to waste when he throws it away. Or we'd pay a $1 fine. Stupid.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
ramrod32784
Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:19:08 PM

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Governments can not control everything. We have leaders who preach health care yet smoke,drink and poor dietary habits themselves.Again it is do as I say not as I do
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