I don't deny the accuracy of the statistics you cited. But the first thing I did was to look at who compiled them and see what their agenda might be. The Unified Sportsmen of Florida couldn't sound more pro-gun lobby. Then I looked at the statistics and noticed that none of them addresses the original point I made. Gun ownership may be safer than it was in 1904, sure. So are lots of things. That is irrelevant to the question of the safety of gun ownership as opposed to non-ownership, which is the point I was making.

I agree that many people have guns and use guns safely and all that jazz. The problems I have are that no matter how careful you are, accidents happen; when accidents happen with firearms it's very rarely a happy ending. Do I blame the gun? No, not at all. I blame stupid, irresponsible parents. And I blame a culture that glorifies violence, so that instead of any sense of nervousness, a kid feels like that 9mm is his ticket to coolness. And I blame organisations like the NRA who equate freedom with guns, as though if you are opposed to people keeping guns in their home, you're somehow an enemy of democracy.

Do I blame guns? No. Nonetheless, it makes sense to me to keep them as far as possible from those who tend to do damage with them.

The ATF was not involved at all in the presentation of the statistics you gave. The Unified Sportsmen used ATF data; that doesn't mean the ATF were actively involved; you know that.

If it were always the retarded adults that wound up bleeding out in the bedroom floor, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't ever think that kids killing themselves and each other accidentally is a good idea.

Yes, I know, Wyo. It has absolutely nothing to do with relative geographic isolation, historical ties with any countries either close enough or capable of pulling it off at such a distance, or the fact that 45% of all global military spending comes from Washington.

I was reading the other day, in fact, that at some recent meetings of the Communist Party of China, someone suggested invading the US, but President Hu was quoted as saying "我們不能。 他們有雷棍子." (Translation: We can't. They have thundersticks.)

It's funny since the fromation of the US and since the Revolution we are the only country that has not been invaded by another country. Yes part of it has to do with having the most powerful military in history but also like Cowboy said has to do with the fact that we would actually be able to defend ourselves due to gun ownership.

Wow, Chef... I was waiting for the argument, but I didn't think you were gonna be the one to make it, even in a half-jest (as I hope that was), that gun control must inevitably lead to authoritarianism.

I love that poster, I think it's funny as hell.

When they come(try) to take your guns, make sure you give them ammo first...

---

"I can resist everything except temptation." - Oscar Wilde

Sorry, Bike, but we were invaded, by the British and they torched the White House if you recall, which meant that Madison was the only US President to actually command troops in battle as they evacuated Washington. Funny how we've always been such good friends with them ever since...:-)
Of course Madison's wife was much more famous after developing a tasty line of snack cakes....

---

"A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere." - Groucho Marx