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Hate crime? Hate breeds more hate? Media's fault? Business as usual? Options · View
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:06:38 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
"Now that's justice for Trayvon"

Alabama police are trying to track down a mob that beat a man into critical condition -- leaving their battered victim with the words, "Now that's justice for Trayvon."

Cops told WKRG that Matthew Owens got in an argument with some kids playing basketball at a court (edit, not on a court. kids playing b-ball in the street outside this man's home) in the city of Mobile on Saturday night. The kids left and a group of some 20 adults arrived at Owens' front doorstep, armed with chairs, brass knuckles, pipes and paint cans.

The group, all African American, allegedly beat him into a bloody pulp before someone uttered the words that connected the crime to the death of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teen who was shot and killed in Florida by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman.

"It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed," Owens' sister, Ashley Parker, told the station. She said the perps utilized "anything they could get their hands on" as weapons.

Cops searched the area, but couldn't find any suspects.

The February death of Martin has received international attention after Zimmerman killed the 17-year-old boy in what he said was self defense. A failure to immediately charge Zimmerman in the case caused public outcry as well as nationwide debates about gun law and race. Earlier this month, he was charged with second-degree murder.







When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:43:22 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
This whole thing is so nasty. No matter the resolution, some giant group will feel disenfranchised, and possibly moved to violence. And apparently, it's already happening.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. The same media coverage that put the spotlight on the case to begin with is now fanning flames everywhere as a result.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:01:51 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
That's true Ladyx and I wonder how this guy is going to get a "fair" trial.
Buz
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:43:30 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,789
Location: Atlanta, United States
If there is not enough hate, the media will create some in order to sell more viewer coverage, more newspapers, more hits to their website, all so they can make more money. The sensationalism has just begun. I can just imagine that what that creep Nancy Grace will do with this upcoming trial.

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:16:00 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Christ I hate that woman. I just want to slap here every time I hear her voice.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:05:26 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Oooo Chef in a cat fight, meowww! Of course in this scenario I'm imagining Christina Applegate as the newscaster, not Grace. That name/term itself is a tad oxymoronic when thinking of her.

As for the OP's post, it more Gump, "stupid is, as stupid does." The stand your ground law of Floriduh should be the target rather than your fellow person. But, the guy/girl next to you is more reachable than law makers. I've stopped reading Huff a while back, and that little fluff piece is precisely an indication of why.

Interesting that one definition of journalism is so dichotomous:

"a writer who aims at a mass audience."

I think sometimes, the mass audience's elevator doesn't reach the top floor.

regards,

Metta World Peace
1curiouscat
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:40:10 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/25/2011
Posts: 1,144
Location: São Paulo , Brazil
Metta World Peace wrote:


How is your elbow? Sore from all the swinging? (lmao)

This whole situation could get out of hand really fast and the media is just fueling more and more. The next beating will get even more ratings.

It reminded me of the scene in "V for Vendetta" when the little girl gets shot by the "neighborhood watch" and they beat him into a bloody pulp, sparking the revolt. Except that this will not have a positive ending.



Overwhelming Reality

From Across the Room
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:14:26 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,141
Location: United States
eviotis wrote:

As for the OP's post, it more Gump, "stupid is, as stupid does." The stand your ground law of Floriduh should be the target rather than your fellow person.


This isn't the first time I've heard this. The problem is - there's nothing inherently wrong with Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. All that law does is amend previously-written legislation. Before the "Stand Your Ground" law took effect, Floridians were legally obligated to retreat if attacked. Legally, a Floridian man had to run away from a fight. It didn't matter if he had to leave his possessions behind, or his car, or his family. They also had the legal requirement to retreat before being able to defend themselves.

The "Stand Your Ground" law merely removes the legal requirement that a person must retreat before being able to defend themselves against attack. Any time a person uses force against another person, he (or she) still has to be able to clearly articulate why he felt that he was in danger. He has to be able to state his case in court if need be. if he can't convince a jury of his peers that he truly was in danger, then he'll go to prison - "Stand Your Ground" law or not.

One other thing the law does is protect an individual that has justifiably used force against another from frivolous civil lawsuits filed by that person't family. Before that, you could be sued into the poorhouse for defending yourself against some scumbag. Not a bad thing, in my opinion.

In this case, I don't think the law is the problem. I think more should be done to hold the media outlets responsible for the garbage they put out as news. I think any victims of violence related to this case, whether black, brown, red, yellow, or purple, should be able to press suit against any newspaper or other media outlet that can be shown to have had fanned the flames of this issue. And I think the police should be operating with complete transparency. They should be openly discussing exactly why they refused to arrest Zimmerman at first, why they changed their minds, and what disciplinary action (if any) is to be taken against the cops that first handled the call.

And I think every last guy that ganged up on this white dude and took a lick should be penned up in a huge steel cage with a couple MMA fighters like Brock Lesnar and they should show him what a fucking beat-down really feels like...

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:49:20 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Yes, so Zimmerman's actions are justifiable, I assume? No, no there's nothing wrong with the stand your ground law. Not at all. You couldn't in that case, just call the cops. Oh, that's right, people with guns make it a more polite society. Sorry, I forgot.

Yes, it's the media, it's the media! How could I have been so stupid? The media determines every single revolting, angry, malicious, circumspect action of the citizenry. It's the media's fault when the cognitive state of the individual is so nonsensical that he is driven by the media to use ultimate force upon another that is given allowance later by aficionados, or people that just hate rock-n-roll or rap music for that matter.

Yes, well, it's not the fault of most, that some are included and given way to violence as an answer when the rest of us truly want peace. It's just the way it is and the world we live in, and our only answer. Kill or be killed, hurt because I am hurting, make a statement by beating the shit out of a guy cause gang mentality rules it so. I have rights and freedoms, even if one of them is violence cause I just can't express myself or defend myself any other way.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:58:02 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
We don't know if Zimmerman's actions were justifiable or not, unfortunately- and we never will, short of a videotape showing up out of nowhere. Sure, he shouldn't have followed or confronted him, but there's not much of a charge for that violation.

I do agree with the absurdity of having to 'retreat' or face prosecution. If you're down on the ground getting the shit kicked out of you (which I suspect Zimmerman was, after harassing this kid a little too far), there's nowhere to retreat. "Stand your ground" therefore preserves self-defense as such. But again, in this case, we'll never know. All we have is two sides screaming, with an ocean of reasonable doubt separating either side's claim from really sticking.

As far as I can tell, the problem with this law is not the law itself, but it's execution. Here, as in many cases I'm sure, they showed up on the scene, sized it up, chalked it up (literally, in this case) to "Stand Your Ground" and stopped investigating. It took a full-scale freak-out to open the case up again, and by then, it was too late. With a more competent, and less lax, police investigation, maybe this would be slightly less of a hot mess.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:35:10 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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Well, people can also take responsibility for their own actions, and sometimes act responsibly, then we could focus on other things. With Tray alive, and Matt not in a hospital.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:25:43 PM

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Location: United States
People absolutely should be held responsible for their actions. We were not the cops on the scene that had to make the choice between arresting Zimmerman and letting him go home. They may or may not have made the best decision they could, based on what the evidence at the scene showed. Did Zimmerman show signs of having been beaten? That's been alleged, but we'll never know. Did he act recklessly, and with wanton disregard for another's safety? I think so, but based on what I know, my opinion is worthless.

All the laws in the world can't protect the innocent from someone set on a given course of action. The problem isn't the law. It's the fact that people are fallible, they err, they act based on preconceived notions that they can do no wrong. Until such time as we can legislate human behavior to get rid of fallibility, that's a fact we all have to live with. It doesn't matter that most of us want peace. It's that rabid few who want to see things burn that we all have to protect ourselves against. Guns and laws are just tools that we righteous can use in those endeavors.

lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:00:10 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
eviotis wrote:
Yes, so Zimmerman's actions are justifiable, I assume? No, no there's nothing wrong with the stand your ground law. Not at all. You couldn't in that case, just call the cops. Oh, that's right, people with guns make it a more polite society. Sorry, I forgot.

Yes, it's the media, it's the media! How could I have been so stupid? The media determines every single revolting, angry, malicious, circumspect action of the citizenry. It's the media's fault when the cognitive state of the individual is so nonsensical that he is driven by the media to use ultimate force upon another that is given allowance later by aficionados, or people that just hate rock-n-roll or rap music for that matter.

Yes, well, it's not the fault of most, that some are included and given way to violence as an answer when the rest of us truly want peace. It's just the way it is and the world we live in, and our only answer. Kill or be killed, hurt because I am hurting, make a statement by beating the shit out of a guy cause gang mentality rules it so. I have rights and freedoms, even if one of them is violence cause I just can't express myself or defend myself any other way.


The point of my original post isn't about the original event. Like LX said, we may never know what actually happened. And Like Nudes said, no law is ever going to prevent any form or violence or prevent the occurences of people stepping outside of the law.

I'm talking about the media fueling the fires. There is racial tension in this country that is set to blow up. I think it's even more dangerous than the original OJ trial. If the media had just reported what happened, without alllll the dime store CSI and psychoanalysis, it wouldn't be so volatile. This guy that was beaten with brass knuckles and paint cans may be a direct response to the hate stirred up by media. They are pulling the strings. Do you think this would have nearly as much attention if George Zimmerman was described as "hispanic" instead of "white hispanice"? The insertion and repeated use of "white" is to fuel the flames, that's it.

This case has gotten so much air time that people are taking the law into their own hands. Spike Lee for instance was so offended that he tweeted to his millions of followers the address of George Zimmerman. Oooops, wrong George Zimmerman and that GZ doesn't even live at that address anymore. Angry groups of people were showing up at the home of an elderly couple. Ready for action. Whose fault would it have been if someone was hurt or killed?

In the news article the reporter says something like, "we still aren't sure exactly what racial slurs were said". It shouldn't MATTER!!! No matter what he said, he does NOT deserve to be beaten by a mob. Is this the old west? WTF. Beating a man to a pulp is a crime. Regardless of what he said, he is entitled to being an asshole or a racist. There is no justification in the law "it is ok to assualt someone if you don't like what he said". It's either assault or it isn't.

I don't know if Zimmerman is a criminal, more than likely he is. But the media is ruining our justice system. Justice should be blind to everything but the facts, and now there is no chance a jury can be chosen fairly. Everyone already has be contaminated.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:01:32 AM

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Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
double post





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:09:20 AM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,789
Location: Atlanta, United States
chefkathleen wrote:
Christ I hate that woman. I just want to slap here every time I hear her voice.


CK I am pretty sure Nancy Grace got in trouble with the state bar when she was a prosecutor here in Georgia for prosecutoral misconduct. She also got reprimanded by a judge for wearing provocative attire to court. Yuk! Imagining her in provocative attire. Yuk!

In this Zimmerman case, I don't understand why he just didn't call the police and let them totally handle the situation if he really thought something criminal was going on. Zimmerman's behaviour makes no sense and does not sound justifiable at all to me. A neighborhood watch person patrolling the community with a gun is just asking for trouble. There has to be a lot more that we do not know. If he did not see the kid doing anything illegal then he had no right to confront him at all. Just a stupid situation that cost someone their life. That is not acceptable.

That beat down in Alabama also really pisses me off. There is way too much ignorance.

elitfromnorth
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:16:26 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,619
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Individuals are intelligent (I think I've finally learned to spell that word!!!) while masses are stupid. It's not the level of the individual's intellect that matters in these cases, it's what drives people to the different actions. At some points emotions take over and people do things that they wouldn't do if they were thinking rationally.

And the media is all about how they choose to angle it. Now I have no knowledge about the case other than an African American kid being shot by a Caucasian man and that it took a long time before he got charged. Now it's up to media how they wanna show it. They can either say explain it in a long and boring legal way about evidence and that it wouldn't hold up in the court and benefit of the doubt and so forth, or they could just yell out "Black kid shot by white dude. White dude not charged." The first option isn't eye catching at all and no one will really give a damn. It's just another gunshot death in the US. The second screams institutionalised racism, and that will really piss people off, to such a degree that they feel that the courts are obviously not protecting them, so they have to take matters into their own hands. Add that much hate and anger and you'll only need a single tweet before the spark turns into a bonfire.

Yes, they are to blame for their actions, but media realises that scandals gets more viewers/readers, which means more ka-ching for them. From a business point of view it's a fairly easy choice.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:37:30 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
I'd like to see someone sue a media outlet for stirring the pot to the point that it was responsible for violence on someone. It would give them pause the next time something like this happens. And it will happen again. Whether a killing or beating on different races, religions or whatever. There's always an us against them mentality among humans because they're pack creatures. There was photos of Zimmerman in handcuffs being questioned after the shooting. There are photos of the back of his head bleeding. An expert has already said that by the trail of blood flow he could not have been vertical when it happened. So they released him. Then the shit storm started from the media and the media whores. Someone said uh oh maybe we'd better do something or this could get worse and look bad on me. It's all about that 15 minutes of fame. Seen the prosecutor? She was a dowdy government worker the first time we saw her. Now she's in make-up, bling and fancy clothes. When do we just do what's right according to the law and not what looks right because someone is bitching about not being happy about the outcome?
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:07:59 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
lafayettemister wrote:
But the media is ruining our justice system. Justice should be blind to everything but the facts, and now there is no chance a jury can be chosen fairly. Everyone already has be contaminated.


This is where I say the name Casey Anthony and get rocks thrown at me from all sides. It does apply though, perfectly.


Great post, btw.
Dirty_D
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:04:35 AM

Rank: Head Nurse

Joined: 4/15/2011
Posts: 7,187
Location: Soaking up the sun, United States
lafayettemister wrote:


The point of my original post isn't about the original event. Like LX said, we may never know what actually happened. And Like Nudes said, no law is ever going to prevent any form or violence or prevent the occurences of people stepping outside of the law.

I'm talking about the media fueling the fires. There is racial tension in this country that is set to blow up. I think it's even more dangerous than the original OJ trial. If the media had just reported what happened, without alllll the dime store CSI and psychoanalysis, it wouldn't be so volatile. This guy that was beaten with brass knuckles and paint cans may be a direct response to the hate stirred up by media. They are pulling the strings. Do you think this would have nearly as much attention if George Zimmerman was described as "hispanic" instead of "white hispanice"? The insertion and repeated use of "white" is to fuel the flames, that's it.

This case has gotten so much air time that people are taking the law into their own hands. Spike Lee for instance was so offended that he tweeted to his millions of followers the address of George Zimmerman. Oooops, wrong George Zimmerman and that GZ doesn't even live at that address anymore. Angry groups of people were showing up at the home of an elderly couple. Ready for action. Whose fault would it have been if someone was hurt or killed?

In the news article the reporter says something like, "we still aren't sure exactly what racial slurs were said". It shouldn't MATTER!!! No matter what he said, he does NOT deserve to be beaten by a mob. Is this the old west? WTF. Beating a man to a pulp is a crime. Regardless of what he said, he is entitled to being an asshole or a racist. There is no justification in the law "it is ok to assualt someone if you don't like what he said". It's either assault or it isn't.

I don't know if Zimmerman is a criminal, more than likely he is. But the media is ruining our justice system. Justice should be blind to everything but the facts, and now there is no chance a jury can be chosen fairly. Everyone already has be contaminated.


<clapping hands>

Dirty_D
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:05:49 AM

Rank: Head Nurse

Joined: 4/15/2011
Posts: 7,187
Location: Soaking up the sun, United States
chefkathleen wrote:
I'd like to see someone sue a media outlet for stirring the pot to the point that it was responsible for violence on someone. It would give them pause the next time something like this happens. And it will happen again. Whether a killing or beating on different races, religions or whatever. There's always an us against them mentality among humans because they're pack creatures. There was photos of Zimmerman in handcuffs being questioned after the shooting. There are photos of the back of his head bleeding. An expert has already said that by the trail of blood flow he could not have been vertical when it happened. So they released him. Then the shit storm started from the media and the media whores. Someone said uh oh maybe we'd better do something or this could get worse and look bad on me. It's all about that 15 minutes of fame. Seen the prosecutor? She was a dowdy government worker the first time we saw her. Now she's in make-up, bling and fancy clothes. When do we just do what's right according to the law and not what looks right because someone is bitching about not being happy about the outcome?


<again cheering> I don't need to add anything, these two have already spoken for me!

elitfromnorth
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:31:32 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,619
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Maybe the legal system is up for a reform? Yes, it's all honorable that it's common people like yourself that should decide if you're guilty or not, but what about cases like this when there's been a massive media storm in advance? How can any jury sit down and be unaffected by what's happened? You're supposed to go into the courtroom with an open mind, but I doubt that could happen in this case. He's been sentenced by the media and unless all jurymembers live in a cave then odds are that most, if not all, have already decided that he is guilty. It's not the juror's fault, but when you get told something often enough it becomes the truth. In this modern day and age you might have to look at a system and ask yourself if it's just as functional and fair now as it was 200 years ago.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:10:39 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,748
Last time I checked, OJ was freed. Although no one who makes fun of the verdict was a juror, can we actually keep a straight face and say he didn't?

Yes, mister, I hear you, and I got your point, and remarked on it. But, who's the bigger liar? The media, or your fellow human being? During voir dire you're asked if you know anything about the case and if you can keep an open mind to the facts. I guess we should just fuck all, get our guns and hate amassed, and bring this whole system down?

Or, question how insipid most have become, that they can't follow logic, reason, and actual facts. And, be able to look at what is said and/or written, and read between lines. It does become quite obvious what the answer is on many accounts.
naughtiestmommy
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:02:01 AM

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Joined: 3/26/2012
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Location: Coastal, United States
This is actually the second mob-related beating I've heard about being linked to the Martin case. Remember the old man that was beaten and robbed like three weeks after the shooting? The irony is, they were robbing him anyway (way to do it for Trayvon!), and beat him to a pulp because he tried to express sympathy for Martin.

I hate the news media, but I also get really pissed off with the "justice" system. Don't even get me started on the "politically correct" climate that has infested every aspect of our society, from product commercials to education to....fucking NEWS. Over a week after Martin was killed, I saw a short bit on CNN about his killing. I was appalled that I hadn't heard if it at all yet, so I googled it. There were only TWO news agencies that carried any sort of story about it at all: one short story on yahoo and one on CNN. A week later, Sharpton gets involved, and suddenly, it’s been the story du jour for weeks. The police department loses control of the situation, and suddenly the DA gets involved to give Politically Correct America what it demands: an indictment. What a political coup for the DA.

The news coverage reminds me of the coverage of the Duke La Crosse case, and the DA's decision to indict feels the same. Was that justice? Fuck no, it was the absolute antithesis of justice.

We throw around the words "hate crime" because it gives politicians the appearance of being unbiased, and it sells the news. Do you think most politicians or reporters give a crap about whether or not someone was injured because of someone else's dislike of his or her race/gender/whatever? But it sells, and it buys. It buys ballots, it buys web views, it buys people like Sharpton notoriety and people like Zimmerman shame.

Here is one of the worst cases of an actual "Hate crime" that I've ever heard of (in the last half-century): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

Are you familiar with it? Have most Americans ever heard of the case at all? Nope. What those degenerates (I'm trying to be civil there) did two these two kids makes me want to smash something. And all the while (in the hours that must have seen like months for the victims), as this fuckwad-clan of douchebags repeatedly raped, tortured, disfigured and killed these two WHITE, clean-cut, perfectly decent, law-abiding college students, they taunted them with racial slurs and hate-speak. No "hate crime" charges, though.

Read THAT story and ask yourself: what kind of America do we actually live in?
Do I think Zimmerman is a dick? Yes, but not because Martin was black. I think Zim is a wannabe cop, with all the accompanying antisocial, vigilante attributes that you typically find in that kind of guy. Does he deserve to go to trial? Sure. But not because Martin was black.

I personally don't blame Zim for profiling. I live in an area where the only crime we really have is the black gang thugs coming into our safe, well-kept neighborhoods and breaking into our cars and homes to steal and pilfer. I didn't do or say anything to cause them to decide to steal and injure in order to live a lifestyle they feel they deserve but don’t want to have to earn through hard work (as we all did). They choose to do it, so it's THEIR fault if a young black man in a hoodie who doesn't live in my neighborhood gets watched closely.

There is a widening chasm of degenerate behavior within the black "Ghetto" subculture, and the men and women of that culture have only themselves to blame. Ten thousand years ago, humans had an affinity to closely watch anything that was large, hairy and moved quickly. Why? Because the animals that were most threatening to them were large, hairy and moved quickly.

You cannot take the innate preclusion to be weary of what threatens you from a human. If there wasn't an overwhelming number of black thugs out there perpetrating crime (often in hoodies to conceal their identity), upstanding citizens wouldn't feel threatened when they see a black young man in a hoodie. Just as the hoodie doesn't make the criminal, the color of his skin doesn't either. But there is an ever-widening crisis among certain subcultures of the black population that attributes to responses like Zimmerman's, as well as profiling in law enforcement. Asking people to not be cautious when they see someone who matches a typology often embraced by criminals is like asking them to sit down and shut up while a tiger is running at them. It just doesn't make sense. Blame the tiger, not the human.

I know I’ve jumped all over in this response, but I think the point I’m trying to make is that we really need to evaluate how we react to stuff like this, and we also need to be aware of the sociopolitical fallacies of our culture. It is a culture that has mutated into something so off-balance that it causes us to feel shameful for having very natural, very evolutionarily-appropriate reactions.

I'm afraid I have to add here that the sociopolitical climate regarding race has gotten to even me, because I find myself needing to clarify here that I am NOT racist at all. My best friend since childhood is black, and a male. Some of the best friendships I've had throughout my life have been with people who are considered, in census, as "minorities" (and, hell, for that matter, I am 1/8 Native American, so even I'm not a true whitie lol) So please don't peg me as a racist. If anything, I am a "Cultural Conservative" lol. But I also give credit to the influence of evolution, because....hey....it's one of the few things anyone can truly argue with clarity and precision.

.
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I'm a loner, Dottie. A Rebel...
.
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lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:07:59 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
My reference about the OJ trial wasn't about his innocence or guilt. It was about the racial divide that it bred. After seeing the case and hearing ALL the facts presented, most people think he is guilty. But the 12 people on the jury didn't. People celebrated that verdict, cheered in the streets. I doubt that would happen today, but when this case goes to trial it we will once again see some very strong racial lines being drawn. And in my opinion, the media is intentionally fueling that divide.

I'm not sure people who would be on that jury would necessarily be lying. The attorneys may have to pick from the best available possibilities. But no one, or very very few will be able to sit in the jury box without having seen all or some of the news and media coverage. Whether or not they can ignore all they've already seen and heard to be fair and impartial is the question. Time will tell.

Who is to blame for people that can't follow logic, reason, and actual facts? Our educators who are forced to teach to a test instead of teaching kids to how to learn? Parents who don't demand academic excellence (or the pursuit of it)? Lawmakers who continually hamstring teachers with silly rules and regulations? Or the media/newspaper/television/ that forcefeeds the masses with disinformation and/or biased/subjective material.

Ask most Americans who said "I can see Russia from my backyard." and most will answer Sarah Palin. When it's actually Tina Fey who said that. Palin actually said "...you can see Russia from land in Alaska." Which happens to be true! There only 55 miles of water at one point between Russia adn Alaska. And a Russian island and an Alaskan island sit less than three miles apart. (no i'm not defending Palin, she's a moron)

It was Tina Fey who said during an SNL skit, "I can see Russia from my back yard." in a ditzy sort of voice. And it was immediately became a truth of Palin.

I'm just saying that i think the media stepped way out of bounds on the Martin/Zimmerman thing. They are creating news for financial gains. All about ratings. To hell with true and fairness.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
naughtiestmommy
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:30:44 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 197
Location: Coastal, United States
lafayettemister wrote:
My reference about the OJ trial wasn't about his innocence or guilt. It was about the racial divide that it bred. After seeing the case and hearing ALL the facts presented, most people think he is guilty. But the 12 people on the jury didn't.


I think they just didn't care if he was or not. I don't think any of them considered that when rendering a verdict, to be honest.

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I'm a loner, Dottie. A Rebel...
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Buz
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:36:00 AM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,789
Location: Atlanta, United States
eviotis wrote:
Last time I checked, OJ was freed. Although no one who makes fun of the verdict was a juror, can we actually keep a straight face and say he didn't?

Yes, mister, I hear you, and I got your point, and remarked on it. But, who's the bigger liar? The media, or your fellow human being? During voir dire you're asked if you know anything about the case and if you can keep an open mind to the facts. I guess we should just fuck all, get our guns and hate amassed, and bring this whole system down?

Or, question how insipid most have become, that they can't follow logic, reason, and actual facts. And, be able to look at what is said and/or written, and read between lines. It does become quite obvious what the answer is on many accounts.


Eviotis you and many others probably already know that there are racist groups living for their dream day, the day they believe a racial civil war will begin in America. Many of them are members of some weird Aryan church, very bizarre beliefs. Most of them like to move to rural areas, though most originate in urban settings. They stock pile weapons, ammunition, food & supplies. They target practice and do military training. Their numbers are staggering. It is scary as shit. They have several websites and the internet is one of their major recruiting tools. Those mob beatings that just occurred as a result of the Trayvon Martin case are just what they use to recruit new members.

I have encountered some while out hunting. You have to be very careful if you venture close to or onto their property while out hunting because a scary confrontation always occurs. They are very territorial. My fellow hunters and I try to keep track of their property locations and steer clear. I had one in particular scary as hell confrontation once. A hunting rifle is not a good defense against an unreasonable psychotic freak with an automatic weapon.

lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:10:59 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
How might things be different if the media had done this kind of research and put this amount of effort and information out in the beginning? Would it have made any difference? Or would people have reacted the exact same way?

Backstory on Zimmerman. Does any of this matter? Would this info have changed anyone's percptions of that awful night?







When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:44:35 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
As Elit (and probably others) said earlier in this thread, the media has no sense of social responsibility. They're able to do so by claiming that they are simply conduits of information, laying it out like a buffet, and leaving it to the masses to choose what to consume for themselves. Mainstream news media is not (has it ever been?) about nuance or analysis* or a true attempt at a balanced approach. Balance and nuance do not glue eyes to TVs or earn clicks on websites. Inflammatory, salacious headlines in bold caps, however, do. I'm afraid it's that simple.

It's one cost of a free press. The same freedom that allows for opposition to the powers-that-be, also guarantees freedom to exploit, sensationalize, and polarize for maximization of profits.



*what passes for 'analysis' in the news now are two talking heads screaming at each other.
Jack_42
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:17:01 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Time you guys forget your (mainly hollywood invented) past and hang up the sixshooters and that goes for the cops too.
elitfromnorth
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2012 2:20:54 PM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,619
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Jack_42 wrote:
Time you guys forget your (mainly hollywood invented) past and hang up the sixshooters and that goes for the cops too.


Think that's more a dream than what's actually gonna happen. You need a more leftist government than you have now and a Supreme Court that can say the second amendment does not inclued assultrifles. Or that it doesn't include guns at all. I don't mind the cops having guns, but when you have neighbourhood watch people with itchy triggerfingers there will be more incidents like this.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
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