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Gay marriage likened to incest Options · View
nicola
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:16:14 PM

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Offensive and ignorant indeed. Guess who's coming out with the statement, now there's a surprise...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/13404005/gay-marriage-likened-to-incest-at-inquiry/

Quote:
A Christian opponent of gay marriage has likened homosexuality to the forbidden practice of incest and says same-sex attraction can be cured.

While marriage equality advocates say refusing to grant full marriage rights to same-sex unions will cause gay people to suffer higher rates of anxiety and depression, religious groups have argued the step would undermine traditional marriage and create identity issues for children.

But Dr David Phillips, the national president of Family Voice Australia, took a personal approach in explaining how gay marriage was as wrong as wanting to marry a close relative.

"I rather liked my cousin, and I was told that's really not recommended, so we had a discussion in the family about those things. You can even marry an uncle, from memory," he told a House of Representatives committee in Sydney on Thursday examining two separate gay marriage bills.

But Dr Phillips said homosexuals should not despair.

"To suggest to someone that sexual attraction, at one point, is locked in concrete, there's nothing they can do about it, they have to live with it, is cruel for those people," he said.

Bishop Julian Porteous, representing the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference, said gay marriage would create gender identity problems for children.

"If the definition of marriage is changed, it threatens this whole understanding of our own identity, and in turn that will lead to people being less secure about who they are and that can lead to society being damaged," he said.

Shelley Argent, the national spokeswoman for Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays whose elder son James, 35, is gay was angered by the comments of Christian groups.

"It is offensive. That shows the ignorance of their argument," she told AAP.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:57:42 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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Liz says it better than I do.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:45:23 PM

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"While marriage equality advocates say refusing to grant full marriage rights to same-sex unions will cause gay people to suffer higher rates of anxiety and depression, religious groups have argued the step would undermine traditional marriage and create identity issues for children."

Sorry to both of you but, straight marriages (guy and girl) have that covered already on both accounts. Mind you, Mr. Bishop, there are countless people out there thinking that you have the market on pedophilia. So keep on hating, well, except for that cousin of yours.
nicola
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:30:43 PM

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eviotis wrote:
Mind you, Mr. Bishop, there are countless people out there thinking that you have the market on pedophilia. So keep on hating, well, except for that cousin of yours.


laughing9

Not sure if we're allowed to give out post of the week awards for such black humour...ah what the heck!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:53:48 PM

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Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:41:55 PM

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All I'm going to say on this topic is that not ALL Christians are homophobic. There are many who actively support and encourage GLBT rights.
SITTING
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:40:05 AM

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Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
There was something in the news about people trying to advertise on buses with an apparent 'Cure for Gays'. WTF? No actually, WTF??? Like it's a bloody disease or something?!
LadyX
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:49:01 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
It's almost like we need cultural tutoring: "minimum understanding and acceptance" classes. Some people haven't even gotten their head around homosexuality in general, much less their due rights, or (gasp) transgender!
redlips
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:00:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/21/2011
Posts: 144
I do try to think things through intelligently, but I absolutely cannot understand the argument that gay marriage somehow undermines traditional marriage. I just can see no connection whatsoever there. And now I can't understand how it can be likened to incest. Perhaps I just don't get it, but really I just don't get it. Just more dumb!! or is that most dumb?

If you ignore beauty, you will soon find yourself without it.................Frank Lloyd Wright

I always practice obedience, when it's in my best interest.
Guest
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:11:13 AM

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SITTING wrote:
There was something in the news about people trying to advertise on buses with an apparent 'Cure for Gays'. WTF? No actually, WTF??? Like it's a bloody disease or something?!


Some of them also believe that you can "pray the gay away" too. evil4
Betheny
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2012 11:57:18 AM

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Joined: 1/14/2012
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Location: Mid Ohio, United States
Marriage is a union and merging of the minds. souls, and bodies of two people based on love, understanding, and caring. Why then should that right be denied anyone because of an outdated belief that those things do not occur between two people of the same sex. The arguements used against same sex marriage are so antiquated as to be laughable and yet many cling to the notion that loving someone and wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone is despicable if it's between two members of the same sex. I wish someone could explain to me the high divorce rate anmong the traditional man/woman marriages. Was their union not based on the love of one another or should short term contracts be given to them and renewable at the discretion of both parties. The whole question begs to be resolved in favor of two people who want to make the same commitment as the traditional marriage and it should be applied equally to any couple regardless of sex who want to take that step. Equal rights for all or none is my suggestion. Just let the traditionalists live together without the benefit of marriage and reduce the divorce rate to zero.
Nikki703
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 12:14:50 AM

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chefkathleen wrote:


Some of them also believe that you can "pray the gay away" too. evil4


You mean you cant?
honeydipped
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 1:42:02 AM

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Location: this side of bliss..., United States
one day we are going to look back on this whole gay marriage issue in disbelief. wondering how, and why, we denied people the right to publicly announce their love and intended union. i often compare this to interracial marriage. today most of us can't FATHOM not being able to marry simply because you were of two different races.

"it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -aristotle
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:21:48 AM

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Location: Cakeland, United States
I wish someone could explain the concept of marriage.

To me, that's the real - wtf.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
lilaudrie
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:24:10 PM

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Gay marriage is to incest...as Fundamentalist Christianity is to intelligence.

sprite
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:27:48 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
Liz says it better than I do.



actually, i totally gay park my car and have gay lunch. it's way more stylish then straight parking or straight lunch. envy me. :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
clum
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:21:05 PM

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Quote:
Shelley Argent, the national spokeswoman for Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays whose elder son James, 35, is gay was angered by the comments of Christian groups.


The name of that organisation offends me. "Gays"!? As in, "Hi, I'm Harry and I'm a gay."? Ugh.

Also, does this thread constitute discussing incest? If so, Nicola might be due a suspension. evil4

Every day is a school day.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:21:24 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,397
sprite wrote:


actually, i totally gay park my car and have gay lunch. it's way more stylish then straight parking or straight lunch. envy me. :)


Oh I do my little cupcake.Hugs
Guest
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:21:51 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,397
First off, I mean no offense to any person or group by my comments, and if offense can be taken from this, please understand that I am truly sorry and did not intend it. Also, please do not discount or overlook my statements as ignorance because this is my first post, as this is an issue I am familiar with and am used to discussing.

I am always shocked by the hate and insensitivity from Christian groups towards homosexuals and their rights. This small but rather loud collection of "Christians" is an embarrassment to Christians everywhere because they don't follow their own prescribed beliefs of love for all despite personal disagreements. They are not required to agree with proponents of homosexuality, but they are required, by society and their own religious constructs, to respect the rights of individuals and not attack them for their choices.

The comparison of homosexuality to incest is a difficult and sensitive issue on its own. To avoid offending anyone or appearing to side with a certain opinion on the issue I will take no moral stand on it, only unbiasedly consider the argument for its comparison. Incest and homosexuality were long considered equally unacceptable by the majority of society. Homosexuality has now established a significant presence and gained many rights and supporters in our society, while incest is still for the most part looked down upon.
Homosexual relationships are typically defended by several convincing statements that usually are similar to the following: any two people in love deserve the right to express that love, it doesn't hurt anybody, there's nothing wrong with true, lasting love being shared between consensual adults, any human has the right to determine their own life choices. Based on my experience, these arguments are the embodiment of the defense for homosexuality as I have encountered it. To me, this stance justifies any relationship between consenting adults, homosexuality, bisexuality, and incest included.

Again, I mean no offense or implications, but I have yet to hear a logical argument that supports homosexuality but condemns incest.
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:52:21 PM

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clum wrote:


The name of that organisation offends me. "Gays"!? As in, "Hi, I'm Harry and I'm a gay."? Ugh.

Also, does this thread constitute discussing incest? If so, Nicola might be due a suspension. evil4


PFLAG is actually a really great orginization and very supportive :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
DLizze
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:50:46 PM

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Joined: 4/23/2011
Posts: 2,552
@Moonlight - You make perfectly good sense, but I think the taboos against incest in all societies (that I can think of) are so heavily ingrained, that to link movements in favor of lifting the bans against incest to those in favor of approving same-sex relationships is likely to stall, or even reverse any progress made thus far.

This falls under the category of fighting those battles that can be won, and of dismantling taboos one step at a time. As with interracial relatonships, the first step in gaining their acceptance was legal integration, and elimination of the laws supporting segregation.

@Sprite - I'm straight, but I want the right to gay park my car and have a gay lunch if I so desire. :)

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
FelineFantasy
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:10:45 PM

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I'm Christian and anti-gay and not homophobic in the least. Does that make me a hypocrite? No. Our teachings tell us to accept people no matter what form they come in, animal, human, heck even alien!, yellow, pink, brown, gay or straight. The problem is how close minded and prude people are.

Click > here < to read my first feature story, Techno Aphrodite by Piquet!
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:16:55 PM

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FelineFantasy wrote:
I'm Christian and anti-gay and not homophobic in the least. Does that make me a hypocrite? No. Our teachings tell us to accept people no matter what form they come in, animal, human, heck even alien!, yellow, pink, brown, gay or straight. The problem is how close minded and prude people are.


i'm not sure how you reconcile those positions. quite honestly, i'm curious as to how you can say that you are anti-gay and yet not homophobic or close minded and then, claim to be Christian as well. That's akin to saying "I am anti-black but i'm not a racist"

You state that your teachings say to accept people no matter what form, so by your own definition, you are going against your teachings when you say that you are anti-gay, right? - and no, i am not trying to bash you, merely to try to understand your stance.

btw, you state, in your bio, that you are bi-curious - now i am really confused. :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Piquet
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:23:22 PM

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The key word here is : tolerance. You may not agree with the lifestyles of others whether it be on religious grounds or over concerns about disease. However if we choose to live in a society that values human rights, democracy and that oft heard word; freedom. Then we must tolerate all people - not like or accept but 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'


http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/claudia-incarnatapart-vii.aspx
Guest
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:29:05 PM

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Posts: 537,397
sprite: "i'm not sure how you reconcile those positions. quite honestly, i'm curious as to how you can say that you are anti-gay and yet not homophobic or close minded and then, claim to be Christian as well. "


Being anti-gay and being homophobic are two different things. You can disagree with the lifestyle while still loving and accepting the person. Christian doctrine says to love all people, it doesn't mean Christians have to love their choices.

The Bible states a clear position against homosexuality, to follow Christian teachings you must be anti-gay.
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:41:47 PM

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MulliMoonlight wrote:
sprite: "i'm not sure how you reconcile those positions. quite honestly, i'm curious as to how you can say that you are anti-gay and yet not homophobic or close minded and then, claim to be Christian as well. "


Being anti-gay and being homophobic are two different things. You can disagree with the lifestyle while still loving and accepting the person. Christian doctrine says to love all people, it doesn't mean Christians have to love their choices.

The Bible states a clear position against homosexuality, to follow Christian teachings you must be anti-gay.


#1: it's not a lifestyle any more than being straight is a lifestyle. it's who they are. people don't just decide to be gay and live a gay lifestyle. it's who they are. it's not a choice, just like being black is not a choice. Trust me, it would be WAY easier to be straight. why anyone would choose to be gay, knowing that they are going to be treated with prejudice and bullied and not given equal rights, is beyond me.

#2: You can disagree with the lifestyle while still loving and accepting the person. thing is, you are NOT accepting the person - if you want to truly love and accept someone who is gay, than you have to accept and respect that they are gay, just like i respect and accept that some people are straight and/or Christian - you will never see me saying:

"I disagree with the Christian lifestyle but accept and love Christians despite their lifestyle."

Sorry, when someone tells me that they love and accept me DESPITE my gayness, i don't feel very loved or accepted. The Jesus i believe in would have welcomed and accepted gays, lesbians, transgenders, cross dressers, and pretty much everyone with a good heart. AND i could make the argument that the bible has a clear position on a lot of things - it's a book, translated by men over 2000 years ago based on the culture of the time. Some of the teachings are pretty archaic and barbaric if you take a careful look at them and shouldn't be taken too literally. :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:11:14 PM

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MulliMoonlight wrote:


Again, I mean no offense or implications, but I have yet to hear a logical argument that supports homosexuality but condemns incest.


Here, I'l help you out here. It's called inbreeding and it's a result of incest, but not homosexuality. Here you go. :)

Incest that results in offspring is a form of close inbreeding (reproduction between two individuals with a common ancestor). Inbreeding leads to a higher probability of congenital birth defects because it increases that proportion of zygotes that are homozygous, in particular for deleterious recessive alleles that produce such disorders.

Because most such alleles are rare in populations, it is unlikely that two unrelated marriage partners will both be heterozygous carriers. However, because close relatives share a large fraction of their alleles, the probability that any such rare deleterious allele present in the common ancestor will be inherited from both related parents is increased dramatically with respect to non-inbred couples. Contrary to common belief, inbreeding does not in itself alter allele frequencies, but rather increases the relative proportion of homozygotes to heterozygotes. However, because the increased proportion of deleterious homozygotes exposes the allele to natural selection, in the long run its frequency decreases more rapidly in inbred population. In the short term, incestuous reproduction is expected to produce increases in spontaneous abortions of zygotes, perinatal deaths, and postnatal offspring with birth defects.

There may also be other deleterious effects besides those caused by recessive diseases. Thus, similar immune systems may be more vulnerable to infectious diseases (see Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection).

A 1994 study found a mean excess mortality with inbreeding among first cousins of 4.4%.

Children of parent-child or sibling-sibling unions are at increased risk compared to cousin-cousin unions. Studies suggest that 20-36% of these children will die or have major disability due to the inbreeding. A study of 29 offspring resulting from brother-sister or father-daughter incest found that 20 had congenital abnormalities, including four directly attributable to autosomal recessive alleles.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Guest
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:03:08 PM

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I am still waiting for a Christian to explain to me (and the rest of the world if they're interested) why they have such an aversion to homosexuals... I am pretty sure that Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and I am also pretty sure that the Christian belief is that God sent his only son, Jesus, to Earth, to live among the people. I am also pretty sure that the Christan belief is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of everyone.

So, if Jesus died for our sins and homosexuality is a sin (which was, therefore, forgiven) what's the problem?
FelineFantasy
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:08:35 PM

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Joined: 1/14/2011
Posts: 387
sprite wrote:


i'm not sure how you reconcile those positions. quite honestly, i'm curious as to how you can say that you are anti-gay and yet not homophobic or close minded and then, claim to be Christian as well. That's akin to saying "I am anti-black but i'm not a racist"

You state that your teachings say to accept people no matter what form, so by your own definition, you are going against your teachings when you say that you are anti-gay, right? - and no, i am not trying to bash you, merely to try to understand your stance.

btw, you state, in your bio, that you are bi-curious - now i am really confused. :)


I was born in a Christian household, I stand by most of it's teachings except for the fact that they believe being gay is wrong. LOL my apologies, I meant to say pro-gay, I was lingering on a forum topic that I'd written in previous to this one. Wow, that is foolish. I am PRO-GAY people. Code red! Code red! Now I can understand your confusion, oh what typos can do to you.. This is worse than the auto correct snapshots I see all over the web. Back to the point- yes I am bi-curious and have had sex with a female before and will continue to do so. Sorry for the confusion..

Click > here < to read my first feature story, Techno Aphrodite by Piquet!
sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:17:02 PM

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FelineFantasy wrote:


I was born in a Christian household, I stand by most of it's teachings except for the fact that they believe being gay is wrong. LOL my apologies, I meant to say pro-gay, I was lingering on a forum topic that I'd written in previous to this one. Wow, that is foolish. I am PRO-GAY people. Code red! Code red! Now I can understand your confusion, oh what typos can do to you.. This is worse than the auto correct snapshots I see all over the web. Back to the point- yes I am bi-curious and have had sex with a female before and will continue to do so. Sorry for the confusion..


lol - that makes a LOT more sense, thank you for that - after checking out some of your other posts, i was like 'huh'? does she not realize that girl on girl is gay too? :) i did that too, by the way - someone just caught me typing 'straight gay' instead of 'straight guy' :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
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