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Poll Question : Would you willingly sacrifice yourself?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 1 8 %
No 11 91 %

Democracy Test Options · View
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 4:09:37 PM

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Assume you're shipwrecked on an island with no rescue anticipated. You're with 9 other people and there's no food and you're all starving. The sacrifice of someone may help the rest survive long enough to be rescued. They vote to make you dinner. Do you accept the will of the majority as binding on you?


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Dani
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 5:54:37 PM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,029
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
I'm not going to lie. Being bound and eaten isn't something I'd take lightly. I'd at least try to talk/bargain my way out of it. And suppose these are a bunch of strangers that I don't even care enough about to let eat me for sustenance? And also, you said they may survive until being rescued. Who's to say they will be rescued in time? That's a big chance I'm taking if they're just going to die anyways. In actuality, especially if it's their fist time at cannibalism, they're most likely going to throw me up and end up a lot worse than what they started. So my death would be in vain. Also, I'm the last person anyone, let alone 9 people, could eat/survive off of. So they'd just end up eating someone else along with me or choosing someone else to eat entirely.

I know I'm probably missing the entire point of this poll, but I'm just trying to be realistic.



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:40:56 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,343
nah. i hardly tolerate the current majority rules thing as it stands. i'd throw myself to the sharks first.
CleverFox
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:59:36 PM

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Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 463
Location: United States
Just because a group decides democratically, it doesn't mean the decision is a good one or even the right one. Look at all of the checks and balances between the three branches of the US Federal government.
PookieBooski
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:00:55 PM

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Joined: 8/1/2012
Posts: 106
Location: My Room, United States
I was going to answer yes in a heartbeat, but then I thought of something...it truly depends on the cause/person. No, I would not sacrifice myself for my mother. She would rather die than have me dead; she's told me so. For my little sister? Totally. She deserves a chance at this life; I've had mine.
blazestcyr
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:11:06 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/19/2011
Posts: 737
Location: where bugs die
for my kids i would kill myself....but hey i think the first 1 who dies should be supper

but what do i know

why they never ate thurston howell the third i will never know
ElChupacabras
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:20:23 PM

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Joined: 8/13/2012
Posts: 205
Location: Ibagué, Colombia
I would, but it mostly depends on the cause. If it's for a "Damn Good Cause", count me in! glasses8
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:35:17 PM

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blazestcyr wrote:
why they never ate thurston howell the third i will never know


I was always partial to Mary Ann, but I would have only licked her. 675-lick

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:47:02 PM

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You're free to assume anything you want about the 9 others on the island. Just remember that they selected you by voting.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:14:52 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,068
Location: United States
In a "kill or be killed" scenario, it comes down to survival of the fittest. The first one to come after me had better be able to bring it because if he didn't kill me first, he'd turn into supper his own damn self.

blazestcyr
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:19:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/19/2011
Posts: 737
Location: where bugs die
lmao 1ball i knew u would get it...u rock!!!!
Duralex87
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:49:18 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/5/2010
Posts: 123
Location: Yaounde,Etoudi., Cameroon
I wish i could so do. But sometimes that thought feels a little bit suicidal just because the ones surviving still face life problems not to mention the pain of loosing the heroic one.

Trying to sound cool. Too much work left.
Guest
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:36:55 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,343
MrNudiePants wrote:
In a "kill or be killed" scenario, it comes down to survival of the fittest. The first one to come after me had better be able to bring it because if he didn't kill me first, he'd turn into supper his own damn self.


OMG! Are we related? I was thinking the same thing. Vote all the hell you want but survival of the fittest is how I roll. I will climb a tree and throw coconuts at your head until you're knocked out. When you wake up your foot is going to be roasting on an open fire cause that's what's fer supper grandpa.
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:55:36 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,176
Location: United States
This question has nothing to do with democracy. It is 1ball's attempt to put forward an argument against democracy. Fascists and other right wingers tend to do things like that. It is becoming more and more popular in the Republican party to denigrate democracy. There is a movement among them to stop the popular election of Senators and have the states appoint the Senators directly. They like to pronounce democrat with an emphasis on the last syllable and to call the Democratic Party "the Democrat Party." Democracy has nothing to do with eating people on a desert island. The votes of hungry people to fill their stomachs is not the same as representative democracy as it is practiced in western countries today.

Give us your argument against democracy 1ball. Tell us what you want to replace it with. What would you do if you were alone on an island with ten people and no food?

Has anybody here ever heard of fishing? Wouldn't these people be better off forming a fishing party than voting of eating one of their own. That's what intelligent members of a democracy would do. It would be the right wing Ayn Rand worshiping self proclaimed "libertarians" who would be plotting to eat the others. The idea of working together for a common cause wouldn't occur to a Randian. A Randite would only be able to come up with the idea to eat the other castaways.
CleverFox
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:55:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 463
Location: United States
I have to admit that I would run like hell and try to find a defensible position and while the other tried to get me I would ask them who is going to be next after me to see if I can get them fighting amongst themselves.

I also have to admit that as a civil engineer I know we could find ways to catch fish and that fresh water would be a bigger problem than food so killing somebody for food would be useless anyway.

CoopsRuthie, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you about the republican party whole heartedly but I think this is more an execise of if a group of people decided something stupid, would you follow blindly even knowing it ment your own doom?

I have talked personally with 1Ball and I don't feel that he is anti democracy. I think he just possed this question to see how people would answer. It is an interesting question. No system of government is perfect and for every flaw you show me in democracy, I can show you a hundred in any dictatorship. I had a girlfriend that grew up in the Soviet Union. That place was a true horror story.

Of course if this was a dictator ship test the question would be the dictator has decided you are to die to feed the others, bare your neck. Wait, that isn't really a question but you don't really get a choice.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:04:34 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,068
Location: United States
chefkathleen wrote:


OMG! Are we related? I was thinking the same thing. Vote all the hell you want but survival of the fittest is how I roll. I will climb a tree and throw coconuts at your head until you're knocked out. When you wake up your foot is going to be roasting on an open fire cause that's what's fer supper grandpa.


When you think about it, it's only punctuation that makes a difference between, "Let's eat, Grandpa" and "Let's eat Grandpa..."

elitfromnorth
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:58:30 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,588
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Mankind's primary objective is self preservation, for themselves or their family should they have one. In some cases religious beliefs may trump that(as in some strictly religious people would rather die than breaking their religious laws), but then again this can also come down to self preservation in the after life, i.e. not going to hell.

I wouldn't go down that road unless every other option was depleted. I guess it would depend on who was there. If there's a bunch of cunts that I don't like then I'm off for hiding. If there's a bunch of friends with families of their own the decision becomes easier considering I'm single and all that. Technically, no one depends on me unlike if I had a kid. If I had a wife/girlfriend and kids that depended on me then things would have been a bit more different.

At least if there was a hot chick I'd ask her if I could get layed first....

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
1ball
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:59:54 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:
This question has nothing to do with democracy.


I realize that you're afraid to answer questions, but how can a poll about using votes to determine public policy not be about democracy?

Quote:
There is a movement among them to stop the popular election of Senators and have the states appoint the Senators directly.


While this issue is not germane to the poll, is it not noteworthy that the original US Senators were the elected representatives of state legislatures? If the people were unhappy with the Senators that their state legislatures selected, they were free to express that discontent in their state elections. Of course, it might have been better to leave it up to the state to determine how to select US Senators, rather than to dictate that they were elected by state legislatures. They could choose them by having a Poker tournament. It might beat having winners of popularity contests in the job.

Quote:
Democracy has nothing to do with eating people on a desert island.


So then, you don't believe in sacrificing yourself to the will of a majority?

Quote:
Give us your argument against democracy 1ball.


Say, "Please". No wait, don't bother. I don't have an argument against properly limited democracy.

Quote:
What would you do if you were alone on an island with ten people and no food?


I'll tell you my poll vote, if you'll tell me yours. ;)

Quote:
Has anybody here ever heard of fishing?


If fishing was a viable option, would they be starving? The scenario stated there was no food.

Quote:
Wouldn't these people be better off forming a fishing party than voting of eating one of their own.


Dictating the scenario is something you can do in a poll you create. In the meantime, you're free to assume that they had a representative democracy complete with a constitution and still chose you for the BBQ.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 9:03:24 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
elitfromnorth wrote:
At least if there was a hot chick I'd ask her if I could get layed first....


A man's got to have priorities. :D


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
LadyX
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:43:20 AM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,658
Location: United States
Apparently the analogy is going over my head. What's the implied lesson of this question? That democracy is bad because others might vote to kill you? Please clarify, 1ball.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:44:26 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
1ball wrote:
Assume


There ya go again.


And here's your answer (and you know it), short video below (every American...should watch this).
You fish fairly well, too...but your bait stinks & sits on the bottom, whereas I cast lures to the lily pads.

Democracies suck and are the road to Oligarchy, which is exactly what the Republicans have been steering us towards for many decades. I'd like to have seen Obama veer us away from this bullshit, but because the GOP is the party of NO (as in no fucking cooperation for you, Kenyan!), he was forced to try to find common ground for the 1st two years of his administration. And of course, did not. The 2010 TeaParty revolution occurred mostly because the liars who created the term: Job Creators - do a much better job of creating sound bites for our dumbed down, attention deficit addled, medicated, or uber partisan politically warring population. There is no right wing, they are about as far to the left as you can get without being an ISM.

We (the majority - bad word alert) worry more about stupid, trivial shit than important stuff, and now we are reaping what the last 30 years of asleep at the wheel fucktards - allowed to happen. Look at what we talk about in the fucking think tank. Mostly the same kind of stupid shit we can watch on any of the Oligarchy controlled tv networks.

The hole which the Bush/Cheney administration (using Democracy/Majority Rule) put this country into over their first six years of total majority rule in all three branches of US governmen (again the GOP held the majority):

2 unfunded never ending wars vs terrorism (Many Americans felt no immediate pain as a result of these wars...one we were tricked into thinking was justified - and still ongoing & the other we were bald faced lied & terrorized into - Iraq).

Tax cuts for the top 2%, millions of jobs shipped overseas (you pay no taxes when you have no job!)

Corporations being elevated above citizens.

Patriot Act/Dept of Homeland Insecurity. <==This created the largest government program EVER. Small government proponents? That's a fucking laugh. They are fucking liars...and if you believe them, you're either stoned or asleep.

Suspension of Habeas Corpus/Indefinite Detention/Torture.

Eminent Domain Abuses (which Bush learned & profited from as part owner of the Texas Rangers),

291 Executive Orders issued by Dubya
(a fucking record!).

The GOP was primarily responsible for the WallStreet treasury swindle of September/October 2008.

They initiated the Too-Big-To-Fail Bailout (and started blaming Obama in January 2009!!)

These fuckers start wars they have no intention of paying for, keeping our servicemen & women on extended & multiple repeat tours of duty. They grind our military people into cannon fodder and send trillions to Halliburton & the MIC. Then, they cut Veterans benefits and blame it on the Democratic minority!!! Wake the fuck up, people!

Their stacked Supreme Court has been slowly implementing their transformation, misinterpreting the Constitution to suit their own whims since the mid 1980s. Need look no further than the stolen primary election of 2000 (or the decision against Citizens United of 2010) to get a whiff of those turds.

And this is just a small sampling of their swath of destruction against our Republic our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and against each and every one of us - who are not THEM.

They foment culture wars, declaring themselves to be more patriotic than anyone else...as a sideline to distract the rest of us.

"You are either with us, or against us!" President Bush ( A Republican declaring opposition was akin to being a traitor )...and all those cocksuckers then proceeded to McCarthy the rest of us, while wrapping themselves in the US Flag and stealing our resources from us or tossing us in jail/prison/out of work.



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
LadyX
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:06:47 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,658
Location: United States
Is the the part of the movie where the "true conservatives" transparently attempt to disavow Bush and the Republican Party?
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:27:41 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:
Is the the part of the movie where the "true conservatives" transparently attempt to disavow Bush and the Republican Party?


You know the only part of that movie which wasn't honest, was when the narrator mentioned 'housing & welfare' being propped up absurdly by rising taxation, while never mentioning once...about Rome's propensity for conquest, war mongering and becoming the impoverished super power of their age. They did the same things that America's been doing since the Carter years...building up their military, then conquesting hundreds to thousands of miles away from Rome - to steal resources to feed their insatiable appetites.

Over-extending their reach (while taxing their population to prop up that huge army) didn't contribute anything to their demise apparently.
Formerly productive people went on the dole, and that is what did them in.

About 95% of that video is some good stuff. The other 5%...he's dog whistling to his true libertarians.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
CleverFox
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:30:47 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 463
Location: United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


There ya go again.


And here's your answer (and you know it), short video below (every American...should watch this).
You fish fairly well, too...but your bait stinks & sits on the bottom, whereas I cast lures to the lily pads.

Democracies suck and are the road to Oligarchy, which is exactly what the Republicans have been steering us towards for many decades. I'd like to have seen Obama veer us away from this bullshit, but because the GOP is the party of NO (as in no fucking cooperation for you, Kenyan!), he was forced to try to find common ground for the 1st two years of his administration. And of course, did not. The 2010 TeaParty revolution occurred mostly because the liars who created the term: Job Creators - do a much better job of creating sound bites for our dumbed down, attention deficit addled, medicated, or uber partisan politically warring population. There is no right wing, they are about as far to the left as you can get without being an ISM.

We (the majority - bad word alert) worry more about stupid, trivial shit than important stuff, and now we are reaping what the last 30 years of asleep at the wheel fucktards - allowed to happen. Look at what we talk about in the fucking think tank. Mostly the same kind of stupid shit we can watch on any of the Oligarchy controlled tv networks.

The hole which the Bush/Cheney administration (using Democracy/Majority Rule) put this country into over their first six years of total majority rule in all three branches of US governmen (again the GOP held the majority):

2 unfunded never ending wars vs terrorism (Many Americans felt no immediate pain as a result of these wars...one we were tricked into thinking was justified - and still ongoing & the other we were bald faced lied & terrorized into - Iraq).

Tax cuts for the top 2%, millions of jobs shipped overseas (you pay no taxes when you have no job!)

Corporations being elevated above citizens.

Patriot Act/Dept of Homeland Insecurity. <==This created the largest government program EVER. Small government proponents? That's a fucking laugh. They are fucking liars...and if you believe them, you're either stoned or asleep.

Suspension of Habeas Corpus/Indefinite Detention/Torture.

Eminent Domain Abuses (which Bush learned & profited from as part owner of the Texas Rangers),

291 Executive Orders issued by Dubya
(a fucking record!).

The GOP was primarily responsible for the WallStreet treasury swindle of September/October 2008.

They initiated the Too-Big-To-Fail Bailout (and started blaming Obama in January 2009!!)

These fuckers start wars they have no intention of paying for, keeping our servicemen & women on extended & multiple repeat tours of duty. They grind our military people into cannon fodder and send trillions to Halliburton & the MIC. Then, they cut Veterans benefits and blame it on the Democratic minority!!! Wake the fuck up, people!

Their stacked Supreme Court has been slowly implementing their transformation, misinterpreting the Constitution to suit their own whims since the mid 1980s. Need look no further than the stolen primary election of 2000 (or the decision against Citizens United of 2010) to get a whiff of those turds.

And this is just a small sampling of their swath of destruction against our Republic our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and against each and every one of us - who are not THEM.

They foment culture wars, declaring themselves to be more patriotic than anyone else...as a sideline to distract the rest of us.

"You are either with us, or against us!" President Bush ( A Republican declaring opposition was akin to being a traitor )...and all those cocksuckers then proceeded to McCarthy the rest of us, while wrapping themselves in the US Flag and stealing our resources from us or tossing us in jail/prison/out of work.



I raise my glass in toast to you WellMadeMale. Regain was telling a lie when he used that "There you go again!" line. Carter's mistake at that point was not calling Reagon out on the lie. Of course Reagon did have the advantage because he had stolen Carter's debate notes and knew everything Carter was going to say. I also remember the big stink over the weapons for hostages deal that Reagon had made with Iran and the hostages being freed when Reagon took the oath of office. That means Reagon was dealing with the Iranian government before he was elected in a very treasonous manner.

Also, any form of government can be perverted into an oligarchy, not just democracies. It is just in a democracy you wouldn't think the people would be ignorant enough to become sheeple and fall for the oligarchs' bullshit.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:47:27 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,213
Location: Cakeland, United States
CleverFox wrote:


I raise my glass in toast to you WellMadeMale. Regain was telling a lie when he used that "There you go again!" line. Carter's mistake at that point was not calling Reagon out on the lie. Of course Reagon did have the advantage because he had stolen Carter's debate notes and knew everything Carter was going to say. I also remember the big stink over the weapons for hostages deal that Reagon had made with Iran and the hostages being freed when Reagon took the oath of office. That means Reagon was dealing with the Iranian government before he was elected in a very treasonous manner.



I want some more of that shit too. I'm voting straight GOP ticket this November. Fuck a bunch of namby pamby, bleeding heart, rule of law abiding sissies. I like when my government is run by John Wayne acting, conniving/plotting/deceiving Gordon Geckos.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Magical_felix
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:46:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,547
Location: California
Well, my name is Jack and not Ralph, so it's natural what I would do in this situation.

I would kill everyone stronger than me in their sleep the first night and make long pig jerky in the morning.

I would hide all the food and supplies someplace only I know about and not in just one place after I kill the strong ones. You know, so the weak ones don't gang up on me. If they kill me then no supplies and food.

Then I would make spears n shit and make up an enemy (a beast) in the jungle to get the weak ones to focus on a common enemy and not me. They will have duties like making more spears and guarding the camp at night from the "beast" in the jungle.

Eventually the war with the beast will make them think they need me. Plus I would be working on a plan to get us off the island even though I know we wont. But to like keep the spirits high.

Eventually the weak ones wont be able to make a decision without me. I would become the king.



ramrod32784
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:46:13 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/29/2012
Posts: 558
Location: Fl, United States
Hell no
1ball
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:20:32 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
Apparently the analogy is going over my head. What's the implied lesson of this question? That democracy is bad because others might vote to kill you? Please clarify, 1ball.


It's an exercise in critical thinking. How you arrive at your answer is the object of the exercise.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
LadyX
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:16:30 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,658
Location: United States
Oh ok. You'll provide a key, letting us know what the answers supposedly indicate, right?
Dani
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 5:13:42 PM

Rank: Penguin Wrangler

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 4,029
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
LadyX wrote:
Oh ok. You'll provide a key, letting us know what the answers supposedly indicate, right?


Lol. I think you can figure out what your answer indicates without someone telling you. The point is to think and possibly come up with your own solutions and conclusions. There's really no right or wrong way to do it...except avoiding the question.



We're tiny. We're toony. We're all a little looney. And in this cartoony, we're invading your TV.

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