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Incest Stories on LS Options · View
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:32:42 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
I know that I am not the first member on LS to touch on this subject. Why the acceptance of Incest stories on LS? I can see why LS has chosen to exclude stories which contain rape, bestiality, snuff and mind control as it may upset some members, but how did stories of incest slip through the crack? Furthermore; and this is targeted to the authors who write stories like this, what is the turn-on factor for you when it comes to incest? Hey, you write it, so don’t be offended by this question.
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:44:47 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
I'm also curious about this subject. Why is incest allowed, but not rape? I could hypothesize that it's because incest, while taboo, is still between two consenting adults, which is a major deal. However, there's also some BDSM stories I can think of which border on rape, giving us a fuzzy gradient. If it's as simple as one person being currently unwilling, that's a pretty definite line to draw. If it's the number 1 guiding principle, then that would explain why incest is allowed.

As an aside, for what reason are rape fantasies not permitted, granting they could easily be required to include a warning of some kind? I mean, all of these stories are fantasies, so why put any limits on them? Is it simply to appeal to the largest number of people as a whole?
magnificent1rascal
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:54:18 PM

Rank: Divine Rapscallion

Joined: 8/15/2010
Posts: 3,018
Location: On the ragged edge of disaster
Callidus wrote:
As an aside, for what reason are rape fantasies not permitted, granting they could easily be required to include a warning of some kind? I mean, all of these stories are fantasies, so why put any limits on them? Is it simply to appeal to the largest number of people as a whole?


Rape fantasies are allowed in stories submitted here. As spelled out in the A to Z Guide for Lush Stories Authors, it must be clear from the outset that what is depicted is a fantasy and not an actual rape.

Maggie Rascal
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:34:52 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
Thank you, but I'm still curious why there are so many limits in the first place. I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it, though. Except for true stories, all stories are an exploration of fantasy, of the things you wouldn't do in real life, hence writing about them. What's the purpose of these rules?
Shylass
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:00:11 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,591
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
Callidus wrote:
Thank you, but I'm still curious why there are so many limits in the first place. I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it, though. Except for true stories, all stories are an exploration of fantasy, of the things you wouldn't do in real life, hence writing about them. What's the purpose of these rules?


http://www.lushstories.com/forum/yaf_postst21574_Incest--our-Official-stance-on-the-subject.aspx

Please read the thread in the link above. That should answer your questions. Incest is not permitted in discussion on the site. The thread will explain why. If you have any more questions, please contact Admin through the Contact Us button on your top navigation bar.

Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

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Dudealicious
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:00:27 PM

Rank: Wise Ass

Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 5,336
Location: The center of the universe, Canada
Callidus wrote:
Thank you, but I'm still curious why there are so many limits in the first place. I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it, though. Except for true stories, all stories are an exploration of fantasy, of the things you wouldn't do in real life, hence writing about them. What's the purpose of these rules?



Ummmm I don't know......THE LAW!

The night that changed my life, a four part series of a married man lusting after his co-worker

principessa
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:06:50 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 3,867
Location: Canada
Callidus wrote:
Thank you, but I'm still curious why there are so many limits in the first place. I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it, though. Except for true stories, all stories are an exploration of fantasy, of the things you wouldn't do in real life, hence writing about them. What's the purpose of these rules?


The purpose of the rules is not to pander to those who would victimize children and others. Lush insists that all sexual activity portrayed be consensual and between people who are of age. There are other websites that cater to the demographic you describe, but their viewers are often subject to criminal charges relating to things like child pornorgraphy. Please feel free to look for that material elsewhere.

And, yes, as Dude said, the law matters.

sprite
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:07:38 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,557
Location: My Tower, United States
Callidus wrote:
Thank you, but I'm still curious why there are so many limits in the first place. I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it, though. Except for true stories, all stories are an exploration of fantasy, of the things you wouldn't do in real life, hence writing about them. What's the purpose of these rules?


hey, answered your own question! cool!
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:54:56 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
sprite wrote:


hey, answered your own question! cool!


... No. Just because a person with authority has made a rule, that they made it is not, in itself, the reason they made it. Claiming otherwise isn't even circular reasoning, because you never got to the second thing!
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:56:13 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
Dudealicious wrote:



Ummmm I don't know......THE LAW!

Which law?
Shylass
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:11:59 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,591
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom


http://www.lushstories.com/forum/yaf_postst21574_Incest--our-Official-stance-on-the-subject.aspx

Please read the thread in the link above. That should answer your questions. Incest is not permitted in discussion on the site. The thread will explain why. If you have any more questions, please contact Admin through the Contact Us button on your top navigation bar.


Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:12:47 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
As a writer... It is taboo, fantasy... so to each their own...
Shylass
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:14:39 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,591
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom


http://www.lushstories.com/forum/yaf_postst21574_Incest--our-Official-stance-on-the-subject.aspx

Please read the thread in the link above. That should answer your questions. Incest is not permitted in discussion on the site. The thread will explain why. If you have any more questions, please contact Admin through the Contact Us button on your top navigation bar.


Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
sprite
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:17:32 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,557
Location: My Tower, United States
Callidus wrote:


... No. Just because a person with authority has made a rule, that they made it is not, in itself, the reason they made it. Claiming otherwise isn't even circular reasoning, because you never got to the second thing!



Ok, you want a real answer? Here goes. There is a difference between writing a rape fantasy and a rape story. I get that. I have written a handful in fact. They are clearly fantasies and I am skilled enough to know where the line that shall never be crossed is. Here is a sample if you’d like…

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/taboo/damsels-in-distress-inc-the-hunted.aspx

Read it carefully and see how I made it consensual story.

For the record, I am a story mod. I get to read the stories that people don’t know when not to cross the line. The reluctance stories that are non-consensual rape stories. The bdsm and spanking stories that are thinly veiled abuse stories. You have no idea how many stories we send back.

And yeah, fun, I get to read really graphic rape stories already, when we already have rules in place banning them – quite honestly, if Lush was to open up the category to include rape (and hell, at that point why not include bestiality, under age, scat, and snuff stories) then I guarantee you, most, if not all, of your story mods would quit – so your current turn around rate of less than 24 hours would be… well, I assume eventually your stories would be published…

Oh, and think of this – if your publishing those kind of stories, you are going to attract those kinds of readers. This is more than just a story site, it’s became a community, unlike a lot of story sites. You really want what amounts to sex offenders or wanna be sex offenders roaming the chat rooms and forums, friending you, leaving posts on your wall of really vile stuff? Do you?

So, as it is, we let incest stories in, as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies, and they are between legal aged consenting adults. That’s where the line gets drawn. I think that most of us are happy with that. The alternative would be to go backwards and instead of opening the site up to other catagories, ban incest stories. I think that would make a lot of people unhappy. Is that what you want? Simply slash and burn every single incest story from the site? Cause I guarantee you, that will happen before Rape stories are allowed here.

And that, I hope, answers your question?
Resident
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:24:52 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/24/2011
Posts: 173
Location: United Kingdom
I'm feeling brave.

I don't think asking about the "why" is discussing real counts of incest. Nor do I think the inquisitors
are seeking such material. A question is a question. Is it wrong to ask questions, regardless of how
obvious it might seem to others?

And speaking of questions...

Who can tell whether or not stories are fictitious? Just like anyone here can claim things about themselves;
just like anyone can post pictures and claim that's really them; just like someone can claim things about
their experiences, embellishing or misleading--couldn't the same can be done with the origins of stories?

Please note that I'm not trying to attack anyone or anything. I'm just curious.

Are you truly awake?
sprite
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:29:33 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,557
Location: My Tower, United States
Resident wrote:
I'm feeling brave.

I don't think asking about the "why" is discussing real counts of incest. Nor do I think the inquisitors
are seeking such material. A question is a question. Is it wrong to ask questions, regardless of how
obvious it might seem to others?

And speaking of questions...

Who can tell whether or not stories are fictitious? Just like anyone here can claim things about themselves;
just like anyone can post pictures and claim that's really them; just like someone can claim things about
their experiences, embellishing or misleading--couldn't the same can be done with the origins of stories?

Please note that I'm not trying to attack anyone or anything. I'm just curious.


this is a site for erotic fiction - it is assumed, unless stated otherwise, that all stories are fictional - occasionally there are 'true stories' published, and there is usually a tag attached stating they are true - we do NOT allow true incest stories to be published. period.
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:40:34 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
sprite wrote:



Ok, you want a real answer? Here goes. There is a difference between writing a rape fantasy and a rape story. I get that. I have written a handful in fact. They are clearly fantasies and I am skilled enough to know where the line that shall never be crossed is. Here is a sample if you’d like…

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/taboo/damsels-in-distress-inc-the-hunted.aspx

Read it carefully and see how I made it consensual story.

For the record, I am a story mod. I get to read the stories that people don’t know when not to cross the line. The reluctance stories that are non-consensual rape stories. The bdsm and spanking stories that are thinly veiled abuse stories. You have no idea how many stories we send back.

And yeah, fun, I get to read really graphic rape stories already, when we already have rules in place banning them – quite honestly, if Lush was to open up the category to include rape (and hell, at that point why not include bestiality, under age, scat, and snuff stories) then I guarantee you, most, if not all, of your story mods would quit – so your current turn around rate of less than 24 hours would be… well, I assume eventually your stories would be published…

Oh, and think of this – if your publishing those kind of stories, you are going to attract those kinds of readers. This is more than just a story site, it’s became a community, unlike a lot of story sites. You really want what amounts to sex offenders or wanna be sex offenders roaming the chat rooms and forums, friending you, leaving posts on your wall of really vile stuff? Do you?

So, as it is, we let incest stories in, as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies, and they are between legal aged consenting adults. That’s where the line gets drawn. I think that most of us are happy with that. The alternative would be to go backwards and instead of opening the site up to other catagories, ban incest stories. I think that would make a lot of people unhappy. Is that what you want? Simply slash and burn every single incest story from the site? Cause I guarantee you, that will happen before Rape stories are allowed here.

And that, I hope, answers your question?


Can we frame this and put it on the welcome page?
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:44:30 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
sprite wrote:
Oh, and think of this – if your publishing those kind of stories, you are going to attract those kinds of readers. This is more than just a story site, it’s became a community, unlike a lot of story sites. You really want what amounts to sex offenders or wanna be sex offenders roaming the chat rooms and forums, friending you, leaving posts on your wall of really vile stuff? Do you?


If it's about trying to maintain the current community, then I understand. The current community likes things the way they are, so rules are in place to keep it that way. Thank you, that makes sense. However, it's presumptuous to think that the only people who are interested in stories about a particular subject are people who would really do it in real life. I'm sure people who do it in real life would likely enjoy stories about it, too, but just because somebody likes a particular fantasy, it doesn't mean they would ever consider doing it in real life. I have no actual experience running a site, but I've read comments on stories of that type before, and it never seemed any of them were all that horrible.

Quote:
So, as it is, we let incest stories in, as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies, and they are between legal aged consenting adults. That’s where the line gets drawn. I think that most of us are happy with that. The alternative would be to go backwards and instead of opening the site up to other catagories, ban incest stories. I think that would make a lot of people unhappy. Is that what you want? Simply slash and burn every single incest story from the site? Cause I guarantee you, that will happen before Rape stories are allowed here.


You keep qualifying things with something like "as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies". Of course they're fictional fantasies. I fail to see why it's okay for one taboo subject "as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies", but not another taboo subject "as long as it’s understood that they are fictional fantasies". They're all fiction. None of it is real. That's what makes it fantasy. I'm not even trying to argue for any action to be made, it just seems like a disconnect. It doesn't seem like a decision which was made on the grounds of reason, but, rather, the biases of some group. If that group is the community at large, by all means, keep them. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

Quote:
And that, I hope, answers your question?
It did, thank you very much.
principessa
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:56:27 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 3,867
Location: Canada
I will be blunt, Callidus. You approach this from the point of view of fantasy. Do you have any idea what it is like to be the victim of a rape, or sexual abuse as a child, or violence? Or has that happened to anyone close to you? I suspect not. If it had these questions would not have been asked and you would have accepted the answers that have been graciously provided to you.

The reality of rape, abuse, and violence is not pretty or artistic or the stuff of fantasy. It is ugly and painful and criminal, and far more prevalent than any of us would like to think. Frankly, whether you accept this or not, whether it makes sense to you or not, does not matter. You have a choice to stay and be member within these parameters or leave and find a rape or snuff or pedophile site that appeals to you more.

sprite
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:56:57 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,557
Location: My Tower, United States
Callidus wrote:
If it's about trying to maintain the current community, then I understand. The current community likes things the way they are, so rules are in place to keep it that way. Thank you, that makes sense. However, it's presumptuous to think that the only people who are interested in stories about a particular subject are people who would really do it in real life. I'm sure people who do it in real life would likely enjoy stories about it, too, but just because somebody likes a particular fantasy, it doesn't mean they would ever consider doing it in real life. I have no actual experience running a site, but I've read comments on stories of that type before, and it never seemed any of them were all that horrible.


no, you're right, not all people interested in those subjects are going to look at them as anything beyond stroke stories. that said, as a female member of the site, i get to enjoy some salacious advances and suggestions from some of our fringe members, and bringing in a larger precentage of fringe members is going to up the quota on unwanted advances.

for the record, i've done some research, and there are some decent sites that allow the kind of stories we're talking about here... ok, one... the ones that aren't so decent, reading thru comments and such on stories, it's a eye opener - there are some scary people out there, so yes, i think that the really active members of this community, enjoy Lush for what it IS not for what it is NOT. from my POV, it's a successful site and well respected and loved by a majority of it's members - there are always people who aren't happy with the way things are, but i believe that it's a small percentage, and Nicola and the staff are very open to taking suggestions from members on how to improve the site. :)
nicola
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:09:37 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 24,844
Location: Sydney, Australia
Callidus wrote:
I certainly don't deny that the owners of the website may make whatever rules they wish, I'm curious why they did it.


I am the owner.

I made the rules based on what I am comfortable with personally, and what I believe the majority of people who wish to read erotica, will also be comfortable with.

The incest stories are borderline for me, however I've explained at length as to why they are allowed (thank you Shylass for the link).

If you wish to see what happens when a site is totally unmoderated, go to google and type xnxx stories. There you can read the most disgusting stories imaginable.
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:18:20 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
principessa wrote:
I will be blunt, Callidus. You approach this from the point of view of fantasy. Do you have any idea what it is like to be the victim of a rape, or sexual abuse as a child, or violence? Or has that happened to anyone close to you? I suspect not. If it had these questions would not have been asked and you would have accepted the answers that have been graciously provided to you.

The reality of rape, abuse, and violence is not pretty or artistic or the stuff of fantasy. It is ugly and painful and criminal, and far more prevalent than any of us would like to think. Frankly, whether you accept this or not, whether it makes sense to you or not, does not matter. You have a choice to stay and be member within these parameters or leave and find a rape or snuff or pedophile site that appeals to you more.


In fact I do know several people who have been the victim of several of the things you listed, so there goes that theory of yours. Yes, I approach this from the view of fantasy... because the subject matter is fantasies. Fantasies about things which, in real life, are horrible and painful. That's the beauty of fantasy, it's not reality.

I haven't left yet. In fact, I am grateful for the actual answers I've been receiving to my questions. I am not thankful for presumptuous attacks on the validity of the discussion. My questions are sincere. I'm looking for answers and attempting to understand something. Help me, or don't.

If you don't mind some conjecture, it seems, to me, that rape stories are not allowed because some members seem to get offended at the mere mention of them. If those members are at all representative of the group, then I completely understand why they're not allowed.

Yes, I am slightly upset because some of my stories inch into these taboo areas, because I like to write about things specifically because those things cannot happen, or I would be morally opposed to them. I can explore them only in fantasy, so I do. I have a few relatively safe stories to share here, but I'm ultimately upset that I have to censor myself to make sure I don't break a rule that I don't empathize with.

Yet, I am okay with the rule, since this is not my site. It simply makes writing harder, because I must artificially avoid certain topics.
Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:19:37 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
nicola wrote:


I am the owner.

I made the rules based on what I am comfortable with personally, and what I believe the majority of people who wish to read erotica, will also be comfortable with.

The incest stories are borderline for me, however I've explained at length as to why they are allowed (thank you Shylass for the link).

If you wish to see what happens when a site is totally unmoderated, go to google and type xnxx stories. There you can read the most disgusting stories imaginable.


Thank you. That ends my curiosity on the subject entirely. My question is officially answered.
principessa
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:24:31 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 3,867
Location: Canada
Callidus wrote:


In fact I do know several people who have been the victim of several of the things you listed, so there goes that theory of yours. Yes, I approach this from the view of fantasy... because the subject matter is fantasies. Fantasies about things which, in real life, are horrible and painful. That's the beauty of fantasy, it's not reality.

I haven't left yet. In fact, I am grateful for the actual answers I've been receiving to my questions. I am not thankful for presumptuous attacks on the validity of the discussion. My questions are sincere. I'm looking for answers and attempting to understand something. Help me, or don't.

If you don't mind some conjecture, it seems, to me, that rape stories are not allowed because some members seem to get offended at the mere mention of them. If those members are at all representative of the group, then I completely understand why they're not allowed.

Yes, I am slightly upset because some of my stories inch into these taboo areas, because I like to write about things specifically because those things cannot happen, or I would be morally opposed to them. I can explore them only in fantasy, so I do. I have a few relatively safe stories to share here, but I'm ultimately upset that I have to censor myself to make sure I don't break a rule that I don't empathize with.

Yet, I am okay with the rule, since this is not my site. It simply makes writing harder, because I must artificially avoid certain topics.



That is the problem with your point of view. It is reality and nothing can change that. Your logic implies that if you fantasize, it makes it so. Nothing will take away the pain and ugliness of the reality. Fantasizing does not make it so.


Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:36:50 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
principessa wrote:



That is the problem with your point of view. It is reality and nothing can change that. Your logic implies that if you fantasize, it makes it so. Nothing will take away the pain and ugliness of the reality. Fantasizing does not make it so.

I'm not sure I understand what you're even saying, here. I'm fully aware that my fantasies are not reality. That's why I call them fantasies instead of my life. I also don't remember saying I was trying to fix reality. If someone doesn't want to fantasize about something, there's no reason to think they'd start doing it just because I shared my fantasy. Still, though, much of the middle of that sentence didn't make sense to me. Exactly what is it that you're trying to communicate?
principessa
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:01:19 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 3,867
Location: Canada
What I am trying to communicate is that you are wilfully blind to the damage that incest, abuse, rape and violence do in reality, by prettying it up under the guise of fantasy. It is disingenuous of you to pretend it is anything else.

I have been very clear. We will not agree about this.

Callidus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:48:34 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/15/2012
Posts: 12
principessa wrote:
What I am trying to communicate is that you are wilfully blind to the damage that incest, abuse, rape and violence do in reality, by prettying it up under the guise of fantasy. It is disingenuous of you to pretend it is anything else.

I have been very clear. We will not agree about this.

How can you reasonably claim that I'm blind to the damage that rape causes when I've witnessed the damage? You seem to not understand the difference between reality and fantasy if you equate fantasy with reality. This is obviously becoming a circle, but I don't think the problem is that we disagree on what's what. We disagree on presuming we owe thinking or not thinking about a topic which, outside of our head, actually hurts people. You seem to think that entertaining thoughts which, if they were real, would hurt people, should be avoided. If I can draw a parallel, though, do you play any fantasy games? Games where killing people with swords, or guns, or anything, is a common activity, central to the game? Should we not play those games, which don't actually hurt anyone, simply because there are people alive who have been in wars and have PTSD from it?
nicola
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:01:34 PM

Rank: Matriarch

Joined: 12/6/2006
Posts: 24,844
Location: Sydney, Australia
The OP should not have brought this subject up in the forums, it breaks our terms and conditions for one thing. He / she should have sent me a private message if they were genuinely interested.

I think this thread has run its course.

Please can you take any further discussions offline in a pm.

Thank you.
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