I've listened to his speeches and can't find any examples of his demonizing corporations or anyone else. Maybe because my panties are too wet to listen well. Perhaps you could provide some examples.

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I am a whore. Find something else to fight about. - Nell Gwyn (to her coachman, who was fighting a man for calling her a whore)

His UAW cronies were protected at the expense of shareholders. Agreed?

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Sensei's altimeter is reading 9000'. Suddenly the engine noise level drops a lot. The engine on the door side of the plane is quiet.

We hear, "Shit! Fuck me!" from the cockpit, then the pilot yells, "Everybody out! Now!"

Airgasms Induce Orgasms

But I'll bet you salivate in all the right places.

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Sensei's altimeter is reading 9000'. Suddenly the engine noise level drops a lot. The engine on the door side of the plane is quiet.

We hear, "Shit! Fuck me!" from the cockpit, then the pilot yells, "Everybody out! Now!"

Airgasms Induce Orgasms

All I'm asking for are citations for this wrongful transfer that you're referring to, if it's anything more than an opinion. Whether something is "due" or not is subjective and unprovable, and you're the one that brought it up.

To your last question: did equity get transferred to the VEBA trust as one component of the settlement? Yes, correct.

Link? I'd like to know about it.

1ball isn't going to give you links or any sort of evidence of anything. His facts are obviously pulled straight from his ass, not based in anything that a normal person would think of as reality. He has consistently refused to back any of his opinions with facts. He has knee jerk reactions based on his time addiction to right wing talk radio and Fox news. He is a troll, nothing more.

He doesn't provide proof for his statements because he doesn't have any. He makes things up to suit his opinions as he goes.

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I am a whore. Find something else to fight about. - Nell Gwyn (to her coachman, who was fighting a man for calling her a whore)

Lady X

CoopsRuthie

Heres your link;

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/krantz/2011-01-24-gm-bankruptcy_N.htm

I have a bad feeling it won't be enough or the USA TODAY paper is an obvious "right-wing" rag thats just on the side of the "greedy rich Republican investor". I sincerely hope I'm wrong .

Lady X you wanted "just one link" there it is, untolled BILLIONS shot to hell and retirees that invested a large portion of their lifes work in the good 'ol "blue-chip stock of G.M." left with stock brokers telling them they no longer have a retirement account and should start looking for some work. Brought to you by the U.S. government, owned and operated by Barak Obama.

CoopsRuthie, I distinctly remember you saying that when I reffered to you as one of Stalin's "Useful idiots" you charged me with name calling...I guess "troll" doesn't count.
Look forward to not talking to you again in the future.

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"I understand that 'Shit happens'! I don't under stand why I have to be under it when it does!!!"
RM

So blame the government and the employees instead of the corporate raiding upper management thieves who plundered the company.

Brilliant!

I bet you thought that Wall Street - TooBigToFail plan of Bush's administration was a dandy shell game too?

How much money was doled out without strings attached, prior to January 20, 2009?

Surely Mr Maxwell can find us a reliable link.

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The best thing you can do for your fellow,
next to rousing his conscience, is - not to give him things
to think about, but to wake things up that are in him...
to make him think things for himself - George MacDonald

Always something new to learn on these forums. It would definitely be hard to run a company as big as GM without the workers who are trained at the various processes the company is engaged in. Not to mention that you can't just cut wages if they have a collectively bargained contract in place.

As soon as a company files for bankruptcy protection, the creditors (which the union would be) have more rights than the owners, as the act of filing for bankruptcy protection is an admission by the owners that they have failed. If a solution can be worked out where all debts can be paid, or at least renegotiated, the owners can retain control. Otherwise, control is handed to someone who can pay the creditors, or in severe cases, assets are sold off and the proceeds divided among the secured, then unsecured, creditors.

So, in other words, the outcome of worthless shares occur in other bankruptcies as well. Which means that those left with their investments wiped away is a separate issue from the government's investment, if I understand you correctly.

No, in these words; the government has no business bailing out company's that fail be they Wall street or Detroit. It's not the governments role. The difference is unions give big to democrats and wall street investors have no union. Somehow investors in wall street and Detroit lost but a union that didn't have a penny invested now holds 17% of G.M. No other words than those.


RM

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"I understand that 'Shit happens'! I don't under stand why I have to be under it when it does!!!"
RM

The process of bankruptcy is to take an irrational situation and make it rational, which the breakup option does when necessary. The bankruptcy judge can void a collectively bargained contract when the option of breakup is left on the table. They try to encourage a negotiated settlement and the ability to avoid a breakup is a powerful incentive for unions to negotiate.



The unions aren't creditors beyond what the owners are legally required to pay for labor already expended and to fund benefits per the contracts until the contracts are voided. Those costs were covered in GM's case, but the UAW's future interests were moved ahead of the shareholders to avoid having higher unemployment and a UAW benefit fund bailout on the President's record. Had the corporation been allowed to fail, the shareholders would have gotten something from the breakup and the UAW benefit funds would then go into bankruptcy. The fail option was not allowed on the table and the negotiated settlement was tilted in theUAW's favor to pay the cost of protecting the jobs over the shareholders' interests and to decrease the UAW concessions at taxpayer expense. No matter how you look at it, it was crony socialism. Both shareholders and taxpayers got screwed.

---

Sensei's altimeter is reading 9000'. Suddenly the engine noise level drops a lot. The engine on the door side of the plane is quiet.

We hear, "Shit! Fuck me!" from the cockpit, then the pilot yells, "Everybody out! Now!"

Airgasms Induce Orgasms

LOL.

That was one of my favorite moments from the debate. Neither he nor marathon-boy Ryan will get specific about anything at all, except that they want to cut PBS's funding. Yes, children's television programming is a real problem in this country, glad you're ready to roll up those Faconnable sleeves of yours and tackle it, Mittens. What a bunch of needless waste!

What news are you listening to? The plan is to cut funding to PBS, not specifically to defund one character from Sesame Street. Not funding PBS would save about 444 million dollars a year. That's if we cut them off without a cent. Lets not bother with the billions in waste in the defense budget every year. No, that would be wrong. We can save a tiny fraction of that by cutting Big Bird's throat.

The government spends $15 billion a year on travel. Sixty billion has been lost due to waste and fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are plenty of places to save money.

Public broadcasting provides educational and cultural programming that is more valuable to the country than the cost of the company's budget. Sesame Street itself is pretty much self supporting, so singling it out as an example of wasteful government spending is stupid to begin with. The other programs that PBS produces and has produced over the years are shows that would probably not have been made by commercial networks.

There is a great block of children's programming on PBS. There are great history, science and music shows as well. Everything doesn't need to be profitable. We're a society, not a huge mass of individuals living every man for himself. Talking about killing Big Bird just makes Republicans seem mean spirited and hateful. So I guess that's a plus anyway.

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I am a whore. Find something else to fight about. - Nell Gwyn (to her coachman, who was fighting a man for calling her a whore)

I think you made my point Ruth by noting all the subsidies the government hands out. As romney said, should we be borrowing Chinese money to subsidize all these programs that can exist on their own in a capitalist society. The Constitution doesn't give government the authority to do this. We're broke folks and something needs to feel the ax.