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Religion, Bad or Good? Options · View
She
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 10:52:24 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
Since this thread is still on going, I will express my opinion as well.
Organized religion is bad.
It is nothing but teaches how not to think with your on head, how to follow as a sheep (sheep affect), how to believe if you will give up your will and trust in something else, your problems will disappear, so it teaches you how to be weak and not to fight to survive and so on, how to put your burden onto someone else and just pray that will disappear. Weak, weak, weak, become a weak so I can have power over you, that is religion.

Just turn around, look at the old civilizations and their religions, and now existing ones..
It is the same thing. believe so I can have power over you.
clum
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 12:25:06 PM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,459
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
I do apologise to all for posting so much on this thread but it would remiss of me to remain silent while ignorant people slander the religious teachings I believe in.

She wrote:
Organized religion is bad.
It is nothing but teaches how not to think with your on head, how to follow as a sheep (sheep affect), how to believe if you will give up your will and trust in something else, your problems will disappear, so it teaches you how to be weak and not to fight to survive and so on, how to put your burden onto someone else and just pray that will disappear. Week, week, week, become a weak so I can have power over you, that is religion.


The religious organisation to which I belong (Soka Gakkai International, for the record) teaches the exact opposite of everything you have just said.

The Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin encourages people to think deeply about their life and the world around them to identify how they can create value. Rather than telling people what to think and how to act, the practice enables people to make the best decisions for their life and establish "right" and "wrong" for themselves.

The organisation is member-led, that is, we ordinary people decide how it is run. Far from being sheep, we forge ahead each day to build a strong and wonderful organisation and spread this glorious teaching. There is no hierarchy, just an ever-expanding network of mutual support.

Buddhism is daily life and, in daily life, problems are inevitable. At no point have I been promised that my problems will disappear. What it has given me is a way to conquer every problem I may encounter and, through developing an unshakeable self, never allow myself to be defeated by them or for them to prevent my happiness.

Since discovering this Buddhism I have become a stronger person in almost every way. I fight every day to have a life brimming with joy.

I have learned to take complete responsibility for all that happens in my life. Only I can solve my problems and overcome my burdens. If I do not face up to that responsibility, only I will suffer.

No one has power over me or any aspect of my life. No one makes me do anything or stops me from doing anything; I am absolutely free to live my life as I wish.

I chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. I've never known anything less "bad" in my life.

Every day is a school day.
She
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 12:37:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
clum wrote:
I do apologise to all for posting so much on this thread but it would remiss of me to remain silent while ignorant people slander the religious teachings I believe in.

You should never apologize for expressing your thoughts. And no one was slandering the religious techniques You believe in, it is general question with general answers.


clum wrote:
The religious organisation to which I belong (Soka Gakkai International, for the record) teaches the exact opposite of everything you have just said.


I am sorry but I am not familiar with your religion or is it sect?

clum
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 1:29:15 PM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,459
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
She wrote:
You should never apologize for expressing your thoughts. And no one was slandering the religious techniques You believe in, it is general question with general answers.


By speaking generally about religion, one "tars them all with the same brush", as it were. Therefore, when you make sweeping statements about "organised religion", you are implicitly talking about my religion. The comments you made (and the comments of many others in this thread) have been nothing but lies as far as my religion is concerned and that, as far as I'm concerned, is slander (if you truly believe them).

You should qualify your comments by saying something like, "The religious organisations of which I have any kind of reasonable knowledge...," so as to avoid potentially stating falsehoods and offending people.

She wrote:
I am sorry but I am not familiar with your religion or is it sect?


It is both, I suppose; I'm not really sure what you mean by the distinction. The SGI is a lay Buddhist organisation which propagates the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. He established the correct teaching for the time and taught that people can attain Buddhahood in their present existence through chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

www.sgi.org

Every day is a school day.
She
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 1:51:29 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
clum wrote:
By speaking generally about religion, one "tars them all with the same brush", as it were. Therefore, when you make sweeping statements about "organised religion", you are implicitly talking about my religion. The comments you made (and the comments of many others in this thread) have been nothing but lies as far as my religion is concerned and that, as far as I'm concerned, is slander (if you truly believe them).

Lies?What's wrong with you? It is my opinion and not a lie. I strongly believe that organized religion is a bad thing, period and your emotional arguments didn't convinced me otherwise.

clum wrote:
You should qualify your comments by saying something like, "The religious organisations of which I have any kind of reasonable knowledge...," so as to avoid potentially stating falsehoods and offending people.

Excuse me? If you took my post personally, it is not my problem. I didn't call out not even one religion, if you found yourself in my words and took them so emotionally, than maybe I am right after all...

clum wrote:
She wrote:

I am sorry but I am not familiar with your religion or is it sect?

It is both, I suppose; I'm not really sure what you mean by the distinction. The SGI is a lay Buddhist organisation which propagates the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. He established the correct teaching for the time and taught that people can attain Buddhahood in their present existence through chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect

..meaning, I have no interest to be informed about every fricking sect that exist. Or is Soka Gakkai International a cult?

Sounds more a cult than anything else, so relax a word here is about religions not sects or cults icon_biggrin
http://www.rickross.com/reference/gakkai/gakkai19.html
clum
Posted: Sunday, October 07, 2012 4:56:19 PM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,459
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
@ She

I'm sorry if I appeared to come across as more emotional than I was. I was simply defending my own religion against some of the claims you made about all organised religions. I was not offended by what you said, although I could see why people might be; I just wanted to give you more information about my own religion and show that it is an example of the very opposite of your perceived notion of organised religion.

It is a lie to say that organised religion, in general, teaches you to not think with your head and that it, in general, promises to make your problems disappear; I stand by the word lie.

My recommendation on your wording was meant with sincerity and not to cause offence. Sorry. You did not call out any religion and that was exactly my point - you spoke far too generally, in my opinion, to say the kind of things you said.

From your two links:
sect - A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
A sect is a group with distinctive religious, political or philosophical beliefs.

We are certainly a religious body and a group with distinctive religious beliefs so, yes, we are a sect. By the same definition, the Catholic church is a sect. My religion, in the broadest terms possible, is Buddhism. I still don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Sorry again.

The article about us being a cult contains a lot of fallacies. I can go through them one by one if you wish. The person who wrote that article seems to have had an awful experience and if even half of what he has written was true then I can understand why he is now a former member. I can only give you my word that the organisation is very different from how it is there described (and I can't think what I would have to gain from lying about that).

I never intended to seem as though I was attacking you or trying to engage you in aggressive debate. If you have any questions about anything I have said, please do ask; as you can tell, I can talk about this subject until the cows come home.

Every day is a school day.
She
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:36:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
clum wrote:
@ She

I'm sorry if I appeared to come across as more emotional than I was. I was simply defending my own religion against some of the claims you made about all organised religions. I was not offended by what you said, although I could see why people might be; I just wanted to give you more information about my own religion and show that it is an example of the very opposite of your perceived notion of organised religion.

It is a lie to say that organised religion, in general, teaches you to not think with your head and that it, in general, promises to make your problems disappear; I stand by the word lie.

My recommendation on your wording was meant with sincerity and not to cause offence. Sorry. You did not call out any religion and that was exactly my point - you spoke far too generally, in my opinion, to say the kind of things you said.

From your two links:
sect - A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
A sect is a group with distinctive religious, political or philosophical beliefs.

We are certainly a religious body and a group with distinctive religious beliefs so, yes, we are a sect. By the same definition, the Catholic church is a sect. My religion, in the broadest terms possible, is Buddhism. I still don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Sorry again.

The article about us being a cult contains a lot of fallacies. I can go through them one by one if you wish. The person who wrote that article seems to have had an awful experience and if even half of what he has written was true then I can understand why he is now a former member. I can only give you my word that the organisation is very different from how it is there described (and I can't think what I would have to gain from lying about that).

I never intended to seem as though I was attacking you or trying to engage you in aggressive debate. If you have any questions about anything I have said, please do ask; as you can tell, I can talk about this subject until the cows come home.


Calling me a lair, twice, just does it for me. Find someone else to play with. However thank you for making my point even clearer (to me) about religious people. Even though this thread is not about people who support religion but about religion itself, you made it quite obvious (with your arguments, words you are choosing and amount of passion that is in your arguments) why I dislike religion and why in general I do avoid to communicate with fanatically religious people. ..mostly about religion, that is.
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 5:39:12 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641
Religion is a good thing...to an extent. religion is good, cuz it gives people hope, and something to look forward to, something to believe in, it also stops people from doing the stupid things they do, like "sinning" it, in a way, keeps bad things from happening, but only to an extent and only on some occasions. it turns bad once the religious scripts are misinterpreted, or it is changed to suit the higher-up's wants, although they are respectable, and they may think their righteious, as soon as their "religion" begins to benefit themselves at the cost of others, then it has been driven away from the righteous road. another that makes religion bad is the compelling need forpeople to only believe in one religion. true people of religion will not shun away people of other religions, but instead to accept and maybe, find a common connection between the two...yeah thats my understanding, and tbh, now that i read back on it, i dont even know what im going on about XD
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 7:42:03 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
She wrote:


Calling me a lair, twice, just does it for me. Find someone else to play with. However thank you for making my point even clearer (to me) about religious people. Even though this thread is not about people who support religion but about religion itself, you made it quite obvious (with your arguments, words you are choosing and amount of passion that is in your arguments) why I dislike religion and why in general I do avoid to communicate with fanatically religious people. ..mostly about religion, that is.


But...but...I thought it was him who was meant to be reacting in an overly emotional way?? :D Seems like he is very composed, making solid points and you are the one letting the emotion get to you :D He didn't call anyone a liar, the word "lie" just happens to be used but its not the end of the world so chill :D What he was saying is that lumping all religions under the one banner is inevitably going to lead to generalisations which do not stand true for all religions. The word "lie" is used solely to show how generalisations about religion can be both damming and offensive towards to people of differenet religions.Points made about religion in general can be picked up as "lies" when applied to his religion. perhaps "lie" is a strong word but lets not get bogged down in minor details. All he was suggesting was the use of a little tact.
And if anyone should take offence it should not be you. I feel the constant patronising manner in which you try to delegate his religion into merely a sect as a means of suggesting that it is below you "because you dont need to know about every fricking sect" is much more offensive...and silly :D Every religion starts as a sect. If you are only bothered by the major religions then I feel it is you, who has bought into the "sheep affect".
She
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 8:29:54 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
joebackagain wrote:


But...but...I thought it was him who was meant to be reacting in an overly emotional way?? :D Seems like he is very composed, making solid points and you are the one letting the emotion get to you :D He didn't call anyone a liar, the word "lie" just happens to be used but its not the end of the world so chill :D What he was saying is that lumping all religions under the one banner is inevitably going to lead to generalisations which do not stand true for all religions. The word "lie" is used solely to show how generalisations about religion can be both damming and offensive towards to people of differenet religions.Points made about religion in general can be picked up as "lies" when applied to his religion. perhaps "lie" is a strong word but lets not get bogged down in minor details. All he was suggesting was the use of a little tact.
And if anyone should take offence it should not be you. I feel the constant patronising manner in which you try to delegate his religion into merely a sect as a means of suggesting that it is below you "because you dont need to know about every fricking sect" is much more offensive...and silly :D Every religion starts as a sect. If you are only bothered by the major religions then I feel it is you, who has bought into the "sheep affect".


Hahaha, cute.

How can I be emotional about something I don't give jack shit? His composed and solid points please, keep for yourself, both of you, to me you guys sound like Amway seller on one of their singing meetings. Not even one of your arguments didn't even for a slice question my disbelief and dislike in Religion.
You see, you religious fanatics, you are turning words around as pleased, no wonder for all of shit that is happening around the globe in the name of Religion.. So you say he didn't call me lair, fine, I don't need your approval for my believes, which is not the case with two of you, you need me to agree with you, you cannot stand my negative opinion about religion.
Wars were fight that we have Islam, Buddhism (and no, his 'religion'is not Buddhism), Ortodoks, Catolicism and Judaism, so please don't bullshit me about sects and cults.

One more thing, please do this and take your friends with you ;)


ahahahahahahah, this never gets too old!!!
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 8:43:21 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
She wrote:


Hahaha, cute.

How can I be emotional about something I don't give jack shit? His composed and solid points please, keep for yourself, both of you, to me you guys sound like Amway seller on one of their singing meetings. Not even one of your arguments didn't even for a slice question my disbelief and dislike in Religion.
You see, you religious fanatics, you are turning words around as pleased, no wonder for all of shit that is happening around the globe in the name of Religion.. So you say he didn't call me lair, fine, I don't need your approval for my believes, which is not the case with two of you, you need me to agree with you, you cannot stand my negative opinion about religion.
Wars were fight so we that have Islam, Buddhism (and no, his 'religion'is not budism), Ortodoks, Catolicism and Judaism, so please don't bullshit me about sects and cults.

One more thing, please do this and take your friends with you ;)


ahahahahahahah, this never gets too old!!!


Now now...lets not confuse me with someone who is religious :D I am not in the slightest bit religious...I was just acknowledging how stubborn you were being. I could not care less if you were the most religious, or least religious person in the world :D Much in the same as you, I couldn't really care less. Feel free to be as negative as you like about religion, I have no interest or authority to stop you but at least dont argue like a religious fanatic about being anti-religious :D
"Wars were fight so we that have Islam, Buddhism (and no, his 'religion'is not budism), Ortodoks, Catolicism and Judaism, so please don't bullshit me about sects and cults".....what does that even mean?? :D Wars were also fought over potatoes..doesn't mean potatoes are silly..it means people are silly! :D
And as someone who likes to believe (though i may be wrong :D) that I can see both arguments I will kindly keep myself in the gene pool in a hope to step out such angry stubborness :D
TheDevilsWeakness
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 8:44:44 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/19/2011
Posts: 1,300
Location: I'm the girl that your father hoped he could date.
joebackagain wrote:

But...but...I thought it was him who was meant to be reacting in an overly emotional way?? :D Seems like he is very composed, making solid points and you are the one letting the emotion get to you :D He didn't call anyone a liar, the word "lie" just happens to be used but its not the end of the world so chill :D What he was saying is that lumping all religions under the one banner is inevitably going to lead to generalisations which do not stand true for all religions. The word "lie" is used solely to show how generalisations about religion can be both damming and offensive towards to people of differenet religions.Points made about religion in general can be picked up as "lies" when applied to his religion. perhaps "lie" is a strong word but lets not get bogged down in minor details. All he was suggesting was the use of a little tact.
And if anyone should take offence it should not be you. I feel the constant patronising manner in which you try to delegate his religion into merely a sect as a means of suggesting that it is below you "because you dont need to know about every fricking sect" is much more offensive...and silly :D Every religion starts as a sect. If you are only bothered by the major religions then I feel it is you, who has bought into the "sheep affect".


Wow. Not only was that totally rude and uncalled for, She said at the very beginning of her statement that it was her opinion. Not yours... hers.

Now if every religion (by the definition of a sect said before) started as a sect then that would imply that there is one religion? Which one "true" religion would that be? Yours? Mine? Someone else's?

Let me use my powers of tact. My OPINION on organized religion is this... I believe (not your beliefs but mine) it's harmful. Interpretation of (what I basically call a storybook) bible, koran, whatever can be and IS dangerous. Many have used and will continue to use their version and interpretation of the "Good Book" for worse.

I don't usually speak ill about anyones religion because, personally, its none of my business. I don't know about it, don't care to know about it, and I am not a part of it, nor do I want to be any part of any type/kind/member of any kind of organized/disorganized sect/cult or whatever the hell you want to call it.

I have never seen anything by anyone in an organized religion do something that shouldn't have already done. I do not need a storybook to tell me how to act or behave. I call it my own version of ethics and morals and not some higher power demanding me to do it.

But if you feel you need to follow a list of written instructions on how to act/behave/preform then by all means... go ahead and do it. If it makes you feel better and act better then again, by all means do it. I will never try and stop someone from being happy as long as its not at the expense of someone else's happiness.

But take your bible thumping religious zeal and shove it on some other poor fool. I'm full up on crazy and I don't need any more. Thanks.

nazhinaz
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 8:47:21 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 293
Location: Longview, United States
[quote=She]

Hahaha, cute.

How can I be emotional about something I don't give jack shit? His composed and solid points please, keep for yourself, both of you, to me you guys sound like Amway seller on one of their singing meetings. Not even one of your arguments didn't even for a slice question my disbelief and dislike in Religion.
You see, you religious fanatics, you are turning words around as pleased, no wonder for all of shit that is happening around the globe in the name of Religion.. So you say he didn't call me lair, fine, I don't need your approval for my believes, which is not the case with two of you, you need me to agree with you, you cannot stand my negative opinion about religion.
Wars were fight that we have Islam, Buddhism (and no, his 'religion'is not Buddhism), Ortodoks, Catolicism and Judaism, so please don't bullshit me about sects and cults.

One more thing, please do this and take your friends with you ;)

Thanks for a very strong and forceful responce.
I would not have dared to say what you have; although I hold the same opinion as you.
My opinion is right above in this thread; almsot exactly as you said.
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:02:46 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
TheDevilsWeakness wrote:


Wow. Not only was that totally rude and uncalled for, She said at the very beginning of her statement that it was her opinion. Not yours... hers.

Now if every religion (by the definition of a sect said before) started as a sect then that would imply that there is one religion? Which one "true" religion would that be? Yours? Mine? Someone else's?

Let me use my powers of tact. My OPINION on organized religion is this... I believe (not your beliefs but mine) it's harmful. Interpretation of (what I basically call a storybook) bible, koran, whatever can be and IS dangerous. Many have used and will continue to use their version and interpretation of the "Good Book" for worse.

I don't usually speak ill about anyones religion because, personally, its none of my business. I don't know about it, don't care to know about it, and I am not a part of it, nor do I want to be any part of any type/kind/member of any kind of organized/disorganized sect/cult or whatever the hell you want to call it.

I have never seen anything by anyone in an organized religion do something that shouldn't have already done. I do not need a storybook to tell me how to act or behave. I call it my own version of ethics and morals and not some higher power demanding me to do it.

But if you feel you need to follow a list of written instructions on how to act/behave/preform then by all means... go ahead and do it. If it makes you feel better and act better then again, by all means do it. I will never try and stop someone from being happy as long as its not at the expense of someone else's happiness.

But take your bible thumping religious zeal and shove it on some other poor fool. I'm full up on crazy and I don't need any more. Thanks.


I fail to see how I became some religious biggot without sharing a single belief of mine in regards to religion..I am not religious, not even slightly. People have also taken the bold step of assuming that all religion must fall under the category of organised religion. I'm irish, we know full well the negative associations of organised religion and would gladly see the back of its corrupt and dangerous little self.
Even if we take your point about the sect stemming from one original source, which is most likely true as there has to be a starting point of everything, nowhere is it implied, or would it logically follow that this must be true. It is much more likely that all religion stemmed from a silly set of beliefs that someone constructed all on their ownio.
The point I initially wished to make on here is that (while I am not religious) I see no fundamental flaw with the concept of religion..I do however have a problem with the "actual" religion which exists, fuelled by overly powerful, corrupt, and dangerous people. My point is that I have a problem with the people, not the religion. I am much in agreement with you with the entire "storybook" analogy. I do not think someone should have to follow a list of instructions either to live their lives. People should know better.
Religion, as a stand alone concept, seperate from history is not neccessarily a bad concept, but combined with the corruptable nature of people in groups then it is a recipe for disaster. An individuals own private beliefs may not lead to such dangerous beliefs (or they may) but I think the problem with religion is the people, not the concept.
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:05:36 AM

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Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
I also apologise if I come across as rude...I was going for more sarcastic...but I can see how it would come across as rude so i apologise. I don't mean to be a jerk :D
LadyX
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:14:19 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
People getting all heated up and emotional in a debate about religion? Weird. Who saw that coming? evil4


Could it be possible, She, that your argument can be summed up as: I have nothing against people's choice of religion, I can only observe the harms that religions have brought to the world throughout history?

I can't really imagine that you'd personally judge everyone who holds religious/spiritual beliefs with a broad brush to be sheep, followers, negative influences on the world, etc. Not everyone benefits negatively from inviting it into their life.

Personally, over the last year or so, I've benefited a lot from it, and I'm somebody that- in certain contexts- can come down pretty hard on religion. That's because "Religion" is not any one thing, any more than "Television" is any one thing. There are some religious groups that are murderous fanatics. On the other end of the scale, picture a single man or woman, quietly meditating in a room, alone, in search of inner peace. Then there's everything in between. Perhaps in your mind, it's still all bad, and as you've reminded us all, that opinion is your right which cannot be stripped. All I can offer to you is that you know at least one thinking, reasonable person for whom religion has not been detrimental.

icon_smile
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:19:49 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
LadyX wrote:
People getting all heated up and emotional in a debate about religion? Weird. Who saw that coming? evil4


Could it be possible, She, that your argument can be summed up as: I have nothing against people's choice of religion, I can only observe the harms that religions have brought to the world throughout history?

I can't really imagine that you'd personally judge everyone who holds religious/spiritual beliefs with a broad brush to be sheep, followers, negative influences on the world, etc. Not everyone benefits negatively from inviting it into their life.

Personally, over the last year or so, I've benefited a lot from it, and I'm somebody that- in certain contexts- can come down pretty hard on religion. That's because "Religion" is not any one thing, any more than "Television" is any one thing. There are some religious groups that are murderous fanatics. On the other end of the scale, picture a single man or woman, quietly meditating in a room, alone, in search of inner peace. Then there's everything in between. Perhaps in your mind, it's still all bad, and as you've reminded us all, that opinion is your right which cannot be stripped. All I can offer to you is that you know at least one thinking, reasonable person for whom religion has not been detrimental.

icon_smile


I should have just kept my mout shut and let you say exactly what I meant :D Well said!
TheDevilsWeakness
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:28:06 AM

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Joined: 7/19/2011
Posts: 1,300
Location: I'm the girl that your father hoped he could date.
joebackagain wrote:

I should have just kept my mout shut and let you say exactly what I meant :D Well said!


But where's the fun in that? happy8

She
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:28:09 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
LadyX wrote:
People getting all heated up and emotional in a debate about religion? Weird. Who saw that coming? evil4


hey now evil4 I was trying to stay away from this thread as long as I could evil4


LadyX wrote:
Could it be possible, She, that your argument can be summed up as: I have nothing against people's choice of religion, I can only observe the harms that religions have brought to the world throughout history?

Yes, but this thread is not about faith or personal believes it is about religion itself, right?

LadyX wrote:
I can't really imagine that you'd personally judge everyone who holds religious/spiritual beliefs with a broad brush to be sheep, followers, negative influences on the world, etc. Not everyone benefits negatively from inviting it into their life.

If you read my posts, I don't think I was judging people (if you ignore my previous one, that is, giggles) I was specifically talking about organized religion

LadyX wrote:
Personally, over the last year or so, I've benefited a lot from it, and I'm somebody that- in certain contexts- can come down pretty hard on religion. That's because "Religion" is not any one thing, any more than "Television" is any one thing. There are some religious groups that are murderous fanatics. On the other end of the scale, picture a single man or woman, quietly meditating in a room, alone, in search of inner peace. Then there's everything in between. Perhaps in your mind, it's still all bad, and as you've reminded us all, that opinion is your right which cannot be stripped. All I can offer to you is that you know at least one thinking, reasonable person for whom religion has not been detrimental.

icon_smile

..few months ago I become godmother to a beautiful girl, friendship with girls mother means more to me than my dislike of religion..so..what can I say more icon_smile
..but,I do not like religion, period. There wasn't a good enough argument made to convince me otherwise, but I have nothing against personal believes as long as you are not trying to rape me with your believes and how I must see the light that you are seeing (generalizing, not you X laughing6 ) Do I find it silly and odd, yes, I still cannot understand the whole concept of people believing in myths, is that judging, no I don't think so.

Ask, there is more to tell, but I cannot ignore posts where I am called names, it is just my temper have nothing to do with itlaughing6
joebackagain
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 10:14:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 757
TheDevilsWeakness wrote:


But where's the fun in that? happy8


Hahaha I do enjoy being thought of a religious biggot :D Its like some form of ethical cross-dressing :D I think I shall pack my suitcase of seriousness and return to being an observer!!
She
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 10:29:48 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,153
Location: Europe
joebackagain wrote:

I think I shall pack my suitcase of seriousness and return to being an observer!!


I don't think you should do that. Just because people disagree with each other that doesn't mean that we should stop communicating or expressing our opinions. Mayor problem (as I see it) is how to express ourselves in written word to be understood what we are saying.. It comes with practice, I guess.
tazznjazz
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 10:55:25 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/30/2012
Posts: 329
Location: under bright lights, United States
I think it was William Faulkner who quipped ''Religion is a fine thing, we should try it sometime''
ElChupacabras
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 11:39:32 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/13/2012
Posts: 205
Location: Ibagué, Colombia
Let's make a difference here. There is "Religion" and then there is "Fanatism":

- Religion, as put by a guest up there, is about following certain guidelines (given by whoever it was, namely God, Yaveh, an angel, Budah, etc, ) that will tell you right from wrong, shouldn't be bad at all. I mean how bad can it be to be given the advice not to kill anyone or get laid with someone else's girl, or steal money or goods from another being to stay out of trouble?. For me that's good. It is up to us to follow them out of freedom.

- Now fanatism is taking those rules, (Coran, Bible, and wherever they take them from, the ten ammendments are about the same), understanding them wrong by mixig old and new testament and like I already mention somewhere in the forum, do whatever they want in the name of God, Ala, or whoever they misunderstood the information from. That is really bad.

So there is no "Good" or "Bad" in religion in my personal opinion. Just plain misconception of ideas.
1ball
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 11:44:29 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
I don't think that it's a lie, in general, to say that organized religion produces sheeple and promises results in return for sacrifices. It would be a lie to say all organized religions do that, but most of the most successful (judging by the number of followers) do. Subverting the root of a religion in order to make it a source of power for the leadership is, in general, the point of organizing the religion. Convincing people that a particular invisible friend is better, more powerful, more generous, more worthy of sacrifice in this life for the sake of a better afterlife, is a potential path to an easy and lucrative life.

Generalizing addresses the situation with most religious people, not necessarily a particular religious person's situation.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 08, 2012 7:48:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641

I am opposed to religion.
I am opposed to faith.
I am opposed to flying airplanes into office buildings.

I believe in asking questions, - especially of oneself.
Hubs_in_hose
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:58:36 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 10/10/2012
Posts: 4
Location: United States
In general, I believe that having people follow a book that was written over a thousand years ago as a basis for their everyday foundation is short-sighted at best, dangerous at its worst. I will admit that I do not know all religions. However, as a recovering Christian, I do know that the majority of the Christian believers are not truly worshiping their God and Jesus, they are worshiping their Bible and how their denomination decides to implement the certain aspects of the bible they believe in at that time.

Any religion that teaches that anyone is less of a person for being born a certain way is a very bad thing. Most Christian churches make a negative judgement about homosexuals. Islam puts women in a status less than man. It is beyond my comprehension that, if there is a God Creator, that He/She/Whatever would want one of His/Her creations to treat any other creation with such indignity and in some cases downright hostility and violence.
nazhinaz
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:31:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 293
Location: Longview, United States
Hubs_in_hose wrote:
In general, I believe that having people follow a book that was written over a thousand years ago as a basis for their everyday foundation is short-sighted at best, dangerous at its worst. I will admit that I do not know all religions. However, as a recovering Christian, I do know that the majority of the Christian believers are not truly worshiping their God and Jesus, they are worshiping their Bible and how their denomination decides to implement the certain aspects of the bible they believe in at that time.

Any religion that teaches that anyone is less of a person for being born a certain way is a very bad thing. Most Christian churches make a negative judgement about homosexuals. Islam puts women in a status less than man. It is beyond my comprehension that, if there is a God Creator, that He/She/Whatever would want one of His/Her creations to treat any other creation with such indignity and in some cases downright hostility and violence.

You right.
But may I say that not only Islam but all religions and for that matter faith renders its followers bound by certain restrictions.
To do or not to do any act.
To follow any ritual and/or hate or dislike or at least disagree with other religions or faiths.
I feel that we should follow knowledge and whatever the knowledge searching and developing engines presented by the then knowledge itself.
So lets follow knowledge and discard all engines of hate and dividing human beings on belief or religious basis.
jp_275
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:46:50 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 9/22/2011
Posts: 6
Location: Australia
Hubs_in_hose wrote:
In general, I believe that having people follow a book that was written over a thousand years ago as a basis for their everyday foundation is short-sighted at best, dangerous at its worst. I will admit that I do not know all religions. However, as a recovering Christian, I do know that the majority of the Christian believers are not truly worshiping their God and Jesus, they are worshiping their Bible and how their denomination decides to implement the certain aspects of the bible they believe in at that time.

Any religion that teaches that anyone is less of a person for being born a certain way is a very bad thing. Most Christian churches make a negative judgement about homosexuals. Islam puts women in a status less than man. It is beyond my comprehension that, if there is a God Creator, that He/She/Whatever would want one of His/Her creations to treat any other creation with such indignity and in some cases downright hostility and violence.


Your arguments are really interesting. Personally, I think the Bible is God's words to us, it is how he reveals himself to us, and invites us into relationship with him, so in that sense as God is everlasting so is his word, the Bible, it transcends time. In that sense I'm unsure how one could worship the Bible, if what it does is reveal God to us. If they were to legalistically follow it in order to appear good, or earn their passage to salvation, I don't think that they could be Christian or in a relationship with God.

Additionally as a Christian, I am dismayed to see some churches criticising homosexuals as they do. You could count the references the Bible makes to homosexuality on one hand, illustrating it is not as big an issue that some make it out to be. The bigger issue is that salvation through Jesus is open to anyone regardless of their sexual orientation.

Sorry to hear that you no longer see yourself as Christian, is there any way I can be praying for you?

Hope that helps!
Hubs_in_hose
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:02:55 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 10/10/2012
Posts: 4
Location: United States
jp_275 wrote:


Your arguments are really interesting. Personally, I think the Bible is God's words to us, it is how he reveals himself to us, and invites us into relationship with him, so in that sense as God is everlasting so is his word, the Bible, it transcends time. In that sense I'm unsure how one could worship the Bible, if what it does is reveal God to us. If they were to legalistically follow it in order to appear good, or earn their passage to salvation, I don't think that they could be Christian or in a relationship with God.

Additionally as a Christian, I am dismayed to see some churches criticising homosexuals as they do. You could count the references the Bible makes to homosexuality on one hand, illustrating it is not as big an issue that some make it out to be. The bigger issue is that salvation through Jesus is open to anyone regardless of their sexual orientation.

Sorry to hear that you no longer see yourself as Christian, is there any way I can be praying for you?

Hope that helps!


Last question first, you can pray all you want. It won't do any good.

Why do you think that the Bible is "God's Word"? Is it because the Bible says so? How is it any different when the Bible says that (paraphrasing) a prophet is to slaughter another village of God's own creation just because they don't believe in God and a psycho mother kills all of her children because the voice of God in her head told her to do so? Why is God so loving but according to what you call, His Word, he eliminated nearly all of his creation? If He is all powerful and all knowing wouldn't He know that giving humans free will that humans would not act how He wanted humans to act all the time? Instead of killing 99% of the humans why didn't he change the way people acted? I believe that there is a greater force than us out there. I don't believe that the Christian Bible nor the Islamic Koran is the Word of God nor the inspired writings of Godly men. I believe that they are collections of stories written over 1,000 years ago (some many thousands of years ago) that so the ignorance of man to the wonders of Science and the world around them. If it were the Word of God there would not be so many inaccuracies and mis-translations of the word. Wouldn't God want us to fully understand what He says and what he wants? Why would his writings be so cryptic over the ages?

I believe that there is more reverence and worshipfulness in one person taking a reflective walk along a stream in the woods than the collective of every person in every church in the world since the creation of churches.
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 1:33:05 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641
Good people will do good things
Bad people will do bad things
Religion makes good people do bad things
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