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Poll Question : Was David Petraeus's resignation necessary? (Poll is closed)
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes, on moral grounds. 3 20 %
No, his affair is his personal matter. 10 66 %
Can't say. 2 13 %

David Petraeus's resignation: Do you approve him having to resign? Options · View
hamz
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:26:53 PM

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Location: New Zealand
He has been hailed as one of the greatest military minds of current times. His extra-marital affair is clearly his personal issue. I am not sure if professionals should be asked to resign for their personal affairs (specially, because this is clearly not criminal - only a moral issue). He has contributed so much to the US and Nato, a part of me actually feels sorry for him.

What do you think? Why do you think it was justified??
Ruthie
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:57:45 PM

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It seems to me that someone wanted him out as CIA director. Otherwise it would never have been known that he had an affair. Why was the FBI investigating his sex life anyway? Are only saints and celibates going to be eligible for government service now?
ByronLord
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:34:53 PM

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Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
hamz wrote:
He has been hailed as one of the greatest military minds of current times. His extra-marital affair is clearly his personal issue. I am not sure if professionals should be asked to resign for their personal affairs (specially, because this is clearly not criminal - only a moral issue). He has contributed so much to the US and Nato, a part of me actually feels sorry for him.

What do you think? Why do you think it was justified??


There are a couple of issues here but one of the biggest problems is that an extra marital affair means his security clearance is automatically put on hold while there is an investigation. Now in theory Obama could waive that requirement but in practice that would be highly unlikely under any President.

The other problem is that adultery is actually a criminal offense under the uniform code of military justice. Petraeus could be court-martialled in theory. In practice that is unlikely. But the military does take that stuff seriously. In theory the CIA is a civilian agency, but my understanding is that Petraeus is seconded to the job and thus still on active duty. There really was no choice to resign.

It also likely means the end of the idea of Petraeus running for President or Veep which was being floated a while back. Apparently he is a Democrat, which is perhaps not so surprising when his main job in Iraq was to apply the strategies that should have been followed from the start only Rumsfeld had some idiot idea of occupying a country without any troops.

It isn't the worst screw up by a CIA director by a long shot though Dulles began the trend by mounting a coup in Iraq without apparently bothering to mention it to President Eisenhower who was nominally in charge of the government. That farewell address by Ike was in part about that.

Deuch was sacked after it was found that he had given the key to his private office to the cleaning lady... The unclassified report on that one is highly amusing.

During the Bush administration the second in command was forced out after he was linked to a limo company that had received a CIA contract in suspicious circumstances and also spent its time ferrying high priced hookers about DC and in particular to parties run by a corrupt lobbyist that were attended by an unknown number of DC politicians and journalists but did include 'Duke Cunningham' who unfortunately pled guilty so we didn't see more than the original charge sheet and the plea agreement.

Buz
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:20:19 PM

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Location: Atlanta, United States
If he created a security leak then he has to go. But what the hell is our intolerance with political figures having an affair? That kind of thing used to be kept quiet away from the public buy our own free press/media. Now we have become a tabloid nation and its all game. With these standards we'd have had to force Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy & *Bill Clinton to resign. JFK and Clinton wouldn't have survived their election campaigns. We are weeding out many of the most intelligent and most talented leaders with this nonsense. But a a security leak, now that's another matter. That can't be tolerated. That is dangerous to national security.

*He actually did get in a world of hurt over a blow job. Of course Jennifer Flowers stating in her Penthouse interview that he ate pussy like a champ was probably a plus.

seeker4
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:28:48 PM

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CoopsRuthie wrote:
Why was the FBI investigating his sex life anyway? Are only saints and celibates going to be eligible for government service now?


They weren't. They were investigating harassing emails his lover sent to another woman who was close to Petraeus which naturally led to discovering the lover's relationship with him. At least that's the latest from CNN. It would be nice if private stuff could stay private (and I don't think in general that you should have to resign/be fired for fooling around) but unfortunately when you're in very important public service job like that, anything you do that's a potential risk is more likely to come out and haunt you. And if, as someone mentioned upthread, adultery is still a crime in the military justice system, then he certainly can't remain in that kind of role.



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MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:36:16 PM

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Buz wrote:
If he created a security leak then he has to go. But what the hell is our intolerance with political figures having an affair?


It's not so much that he "created a security leak", but that as Byron pointed out, having an extramarital affair is a court-martial offense for military personnel. It's rarely enforced, but many officers have ruined their career over sexual liaisons. Both male and female officers, as well.

As for security, any time a high-ranking official commits this kind of secret act, he sets himself up as a target for blackmail. Can you imagine the glee a foreign intelligence service would feel if they were able to blackmail the head of the CIA?

TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:39:45 PM

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According to all the Sunday morning news shows, it was discovered during the FBI investigation of a third party's allegation of harassing email that led to the married woman that the General was having the relationship with and pursued because it appeared his personal computer had been compromised. No one asked for his resignation, he offered it up as an honorable act made necessary by his 'great lapse of judgement' (the affair). One of the people (a Senator or Congress-person) with a bit of inside info said that there was no criminal investigation of Petraeus ongoing or planned. Apparently the woman had been 'vetted' to some degree as well to allow her the access to Petraeus in order to write his memoir, biography or whatever.
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:13:26 PM

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Location: Massachusetts, United States
TheGulfCoaster wrote:
According to all the Sunday morning news shows, it was discovered during the FBI investigation of a third party's allegation of harassing email that led to the married woman that the General was having the relationship with and pursued because it appeared his personal computer had been compromised. No one asked for his resignation, he offered it up as an honorable act made necessary by his 'great lapse of judgement' (the affair). One of the people (a Senator or Congress-person) with a bit of inside info said that there was no criminal investigation of Petraeus ongoing or planned. Apparently the woman had been 'vetted' to some degree as well to allow her the access to Petraeus in order to write his memoir, biography or whatever.


Actually, his boss demanded his resignation. Contrary to popular belief, the CIA is actually fairly low on the intelligence totem pole. It is only about 10% of the budget. They seem to be confused as to whether they are a commando outfit or an intelligence agency and not particularly good at either. The director of the CIA now reports to the DNI who told him that he had to go. The real power of US intelligence is the NSA and after that the DIA.

Given that they have the rules on the books, they really have little choice but to enforce them when some idiot goes round telling people things they would rather not know. I am pretty sure that Cantor had no intention of forcing Petraeus out over this, but once the FBI knew that he knew it became impossible not to continue the investigation. The fact that the agent involved seems to have had some sort of thing for the target of the alleged harassment and the report to Cantor means that his career is also over.

What I find rather bizarre is that despite having the prohibition on adultery, the US army still seems to have the tradition of 'camp followers'. What else is a 'social liason' after all?

lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:56:54 AM

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MrNudiePants wrote:


It's not so much that he "created a security leak", but that as Byron pointed out, having an extramarital affair is a court-martial offense for military personnel. It's rarely enforced, but many officers have ruined their career over sexual liaisons. Both male and female officers, as well.

As for security, any time a high-ranking official commits this kind of secret act, he sets himself up as a target for blackmail. Can you imagine the glee a foreign intelligence service would feel if they were able to blackmail the head of the CIA?


I think they want to get rid of him and adultery is how they're getting their foot in the door. Afterall, if the Commander in Chief of the military can commit adultery and not lose his job, why should a general. Btw, I don't think Clinton should have lost his job or even had to deal with any of that. His affair should have been between him, Hilary, and Monica. Monica could have blackmailed Clinton too.

This is all just a smoke screen anyway.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Kinky_Becky
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:15:59 AM

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There appears to be more to this. It seems there may have been secrets that were leaked. It's not necessarily the affair that caused him to resign, but rather sharing information with a lover who had no need to know this information. Trusting in the head of your intelligence agency is rather important, don't you think? So yes, I agree with his resignation.

angieseroticpen
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:08:12 AM

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Location: United Kingdom
He had to go. A man in his position cannot afford to be compromised in the way that he was. What if the two women involved had been 'planted' by a foreign power?. I agree with some comentators here about morals and personal lives etc but if you are going to aspire to that level of public life than you have to be whiter than white, so to speak.

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
Zamm
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:36:15 AM

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Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 48
General Petraus was a very effective general. He came into a very difficult situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, got the right information, consulted the right people and then made the right decisions to create as much stability in those parts of the world as possible and to also safeguard our uniformed men and women and keep them out of harm's way as much as possible. However, with high office comes high expectations. Even though these events were personal in nature, he knows and has known for a very long time that personal conduct matters when you are a four star general, much like Bill Clinton conveniently forgot when he was president and consorted with Monica Lewinski. He did the honorable thing and resigned and he had to. Unfortunately, the bar is much much lower for the scoundrels in the private sector who often behavior much worse and recieve nary a slap on the wrist, or, get some enormous severance package from stockholders when his butt is kicked out the door.
elitfromnorth
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:51:52 AM

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If it's true that cheating is a court marshal offense then of course he has to go. I doubt you're allowed to get a security clearance at that level if you got a criminal record.

And the fact that he cheated shows poor judgement. He knows he's a high value target for intelligence, and screwing someone to get information is so well known that it even got it's own term; honey trap. Who knows what gets said during pillow talk. Hell, the director of the Norwegian equivalent to the CIA and FBI said we had agents in Pakistan during an open hearing that was broadcasted on live television. Yes, that was classified as very sensitive information and the Pakistani went bonkers.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
ByronLord
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:36:41 PM

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Location: Massachusetts, United States
elitfromnorth wrote:
If it's true that cheating is a court marshal offense then of course he has to go. I doubt you're allowed to get a security clearance at that level if you got a criminal record.

And the fact that he cheated shows poor judgement. He knows he's a high value target for intelligence, and screwing someone to get information is so well known that it even got it's own term; honey trap. Who knows what gets said during pillow talk. Hell, the director of the Norwegian equivalent to the CIA and FBI said we had agents in Pakistan during an open hearing that was broadcasted on live television. Yes, that was classified as very sensitive information and the Pakistani went bonkers.


Well the honey trap part might be an issue. Kelly and her sister were both very deeply in debt to the tune of $3 million each. That made them both rather obvious targets for extortion.

The information that Kelly had is probably not very sensitive in terms of operational issues but that does not mean it would not be valuable to a foreign power. Knowing who is up and who is down in the top brass promotion stakes is a huge deal in intelligence circles. They have whole teams whose job is to get inside the mind of opposition commanders. Petraeus is a known quantity of course but his senior officers are not.

It really looks to me like this is nothing more serious than a couple of rather loose women who were both after anything in a (very senior) uniform and at least one general who was oblivious to the security risk of taking at least one of them up on the offer. When one saw the other trying to make a move it turned into a catfight and one of the women brought in an FBI agent who was also trying to get off with her and happened to have a political agenda to grind. FBI agent leaked the investigation to a member of Congress who told Cantor who would most probably have preferred not to have been told at all. Once that happened the FBI was forced to act regardless of whether it made sense as not acting would now compromise Cantor if he kept quiet.

What I find rather amusing is that people think this is anything unusual for the CIA. They have been screwing things up from the start with the major screw up in Iran in '53.

The KGB was even more monumentally incompetent. They managed to bring down the Soviet Union by starting the war in Afghanistan which was an entirely unnecessary war from the Soviet point of view. Afghanistan was a communist country before the invasion. The invasion was the result of drunken KGB officers doing idiotic things when they got bored on what was a hardship posting.

DLizze
Posted: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:27:58 PM

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He is a high-ranking officer ion the US military. He violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice. For that action, regardless of his position with any intelligence oganization, he should be punished, "... as a Court Martial may direct."

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:29:08 AM

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Posts: 10,301
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Petraeus is recently retired from Army, drawing a pension...but he'd have to be called back to Active Duty in order to then be court-martialed. Probably not going to happen.

I do find it interesting that the woman he's accused of fucking around with, is - herself a former West Point graduate & Lt. Colonel. Yet you have to dig to find those facts mentioned in our main stream media - or just know where to look to get actual facts.

**Notice how the Washington Post (how much more mainstream can you get?) article above, neglects to mention her actual status as Lieutenant Colonel. They relegate her to the much lesser status of: Army reservist/book collaborator. -- Why? Talk about a smokescreen hack reporting job. We the people are being sidelined and fed misinformation again.

This entire affair (no pun intended) stinks & smells. There is a lot more occurring here than the public at large is being fed by MSM. There usually is - with situations such as these.

Concentrate scandalous attention over at Point A (while other far more illegal & nefarious activities occur at Points B, C, D, etc...)

It's also interesting that the Lebanese born Mrs. Kelly is in the center of this fiasco (and her own possible illicit affair (thousands of flirtatious email communications)) with the currently acting head of operations in the Afghan theater of war - General John Allen - is now being carefully scrutinized.

This entire 'thing' goes so much deeper down a rabbit hole than we may actually learn (much like Iran/Contra in the 1980s). We'll be allowed to see a little bit -- but not any of the really good factual stuff. That will all be marked highly classified by the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA (pick your alphabet agency classifications).

Are we witnessing a clean sweep of the more powerful Military leaders in various branches of the US Armed Forces (from reported fears of a possible coup d'état) by the Obama administration - before it could occur?

Why aren't we American's reading about this shit in our newspapers, or hearing about it on our various 24x7 hour news media? Why indeed...Who owns this media, who controls what we are allowed to get a hint of about anything?

I ask you - how many of you are aware that THIS happened, just before the Petraeus affair was exposed and just before the recent National Elections occurred?

This being: Rear Admiral Charles M. Gauoette - commander of the USS John C Stennis strike group 'practicing warfare exercise in the Persian Gulf these last few months - relieved of duty.



The removal of Gaouette is unique in military history with one exception, the firing of General McArthur by President Harry Truman during the Korean War.

Truman fired MacArthur for not just planning but preparing a nuclear attack on China and a full-scale invasion of the Chinese mainland.

With only one direct parallel in the last century, it is reasonable to assume that Gaouette was following in the path of former 5th Fleet commander, Admiral Cosgriff.



The shit could really be hitting the fan - and we'd not know about any of the actual truths, if not for the internet and sources not beholding to the 6 powerful owners of all mass media in the world.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
doctorlove
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:10:38 AM

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From a presidental election to a resignation over an erection
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