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Should kids in the untied states have to say the pledge of alligence in school Options · View
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:51:49 AM

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I said it everyday day it didn't hurt me a bit
MarySweets
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:42:51 AM

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In Australia it used to be commonplace for school kids to pledge to the Queen. Somehow in the later part of the 20th century it stopped happening.

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seeker4
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:40:50 AM

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We didn't have any pledge to say in Canada at least in the seventies when I was in school. There may have been a pledge to the Queen at one time, like the one referenced for Australia in the post above me, but I couldn't say for sure and it certainly was gone by my lifetime. In general, I think that it's appropriate given that schools (at least public schools) are civic institutions though if said pledge references "God" or other religious notions then I get antsy and likely think there needs to be an "out" clause for those who find it inappropriate. Then again, I'm an agnostic who is in favour of total separation of church and state at the institutional level, though I'm okay if individual legislators follow religious value systems.


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Jinxy
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:47:00 AM

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Yes, that is all.. Simply YES.

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BabydollSlave
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:00:37 AM

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As a student working towards a medical license i am able to be a substitute teacher. everyday the children say the pledge but because we have students and staff that are not Christians, Catholics, or Jewish they do no and are not required to say "Under god" they just stay silent for those 2 words. are they right? well i believe if you don't believe in that particular god remaining silent is better then be rude to yourself or others. :)

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elitfromnorth
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:51:15 AM

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As a foreigner I think this is rather weird and seems close to indoctrination of fealthy in small kids. Just because the kids don't say it, doesn't mean they'll end up like traitors, and just because they do, doesn't mean they won't end up like one. It seems pointless and is frightingly close to saying "USA über alles".

On a second note, I find it humoristic and ironic that something that I would guess is hailed especially by conservatives was originally written by socialist evil4

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TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:25:39 AM

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Back in the very early 60's during my first few years of elementary school (Ike was President when I entered Kindergarten), we were taught to recite it and did so while standing, facing the flag with our right hand over our hearts, but honestly, I can't remember ever being told what it really meant or represented. It seemed that it was an exercise in discipline. Standing and reciting words that aren't truly understood does nothing to promote patriotism. Go ahead ask a 7 yo what the phrase 'I pledge allegiance to the flag' means (even if he/she recites it 5 days a week). So in my mind, saying it to teach classroom decorum or the discipline of reciting something in unison with classmates, it might be useful (but no more sense than reciting any other random string of words). If intended to promote loyalty or patriotism, I feel it's a concept that an overwhelming majority of America's youth can't even comprehend at that age. Heck, there are Congressmen and CEO's/business owners who don't seem to understand (apparently) what the Pledge of Allegiance' represents.
tazznjazz
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:03:50 PM

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The under god part doesn't recognize that this country was founded on the principal of separation of church and state and sends a confusing and conflicting message to young children.

The pledge should be optional for a freedom loving country, not required like a Nazi state would do.
ramrod32784
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:35:36 PM

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It is simply a matter of respect.I think this country got into trouble when it lost its sense of respect'The pledge says under God but it does not specify any God in particular and I have no problem in passing over those words over if you have a problem with it
jillinjulie
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:49:05 PM

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Not proud to be an American?
Leave.
Otherwise honor this GR8 country and show some respect before it is all taken away.
SexySophie
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:32:37 PM

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where are the 'untied states'?
Fastrunner325
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:49:21 PM

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No but they should learn how to spell. What is a pledge of alligence in the untied states?
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:01:38 PM

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Hell yeah they should say it everyday,its not going to kill them!!
clum
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:09:03 PM

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From an outside (British) perspective, I think it's a very weird, almost militaristic thing to require children to do. By having them recite this every day verbatim, with not much understanding of why, is kind of like brainwashing them into having pride in their country.

I think things like reciting the pledge of allegiance are not for educational institutions to enforce. Certainly I don't think kids should have to do it but, even stronger, I don't believe it should be practiced at all. If parents wish their children to do that, that's up to them and they can do it at home. I don't understand what the perceived benefit of having kids do this every day is, to either themselves or society.

The "under God" part irks me a bit as well. I'm not saying there's no place for religion in education but I'm surprised, in these modern (and terribly PC) times, that the pledge of allegiance still contains a phrase like that. That said, our national anthem is "God Save The Queen" which is equally absurd.

Saying this pledge probably makes very little difference in the long run; it's just a bizarre ritual and I don't see the point of it. If I were a parent and my kids' school was making them make some sort of patriotic pledge every day, I'd likely not be too happy about it. Patriotism is not something learned; it's something felt in the depths of our being.

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TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:45:00 PM

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clum wrote:


The "under God" part irks me a bit as well. I'm not saying there's no place for religion in education but I'm surprised, in these modern (and terribly PC) times, that the pledge of allegiance still contains a phrase like that. That said, our national anthem is "God Save The Queen" which is equally absurd.



Clum, the "under God" words were just added in 1954 as a result of lobbying by 'The Knights Of Columbus', a U.S. Catholic Fraternal Service organization, the entire history of the Pledge can be found on Wikipedia.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:29:43 PM

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I don't think they should be made to say it. But I do think it should have a spot in social studies class or perhaps history class with it's origins and meaning.
clum
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:37:51 PM

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TheGulfCoaster wrote:
Clum, the "under God" words were just added in 1954 as a result of lobbying by 'The Knights Of Columbus', a U.S. Catholic Fraternal Service organization, the entire history of the Pledge can be found on Wikipedia.


I'm actually glad to hear that as it shows there is a precedence for the pledge being changed and it's not some sort of "set in stone" thing. A good case for modernising it.

chefkathleen wrote:
I don't think they should be made to say it. But I do think it should have a spot in social studies class or perhaps history class with it's origins and meaning.


Definitely! It's an important part of American history and tradition and, as such, all citizens should learn about it (in my opinion).

The lion is most lionlike when he roars.
EcStaceysRainbow
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:09:59 PM

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I don't live in the untied states, but in the United States, though I consider myself a sovereign individual. Most of the civilized world lives under Corporations, look it up. For example, if you look on Dunn and Bradstreet, it will show that the "President" of the "United States of America Corporation" - is currently Barack Obama.

I live, I am the ration and limit of my eternal Being, Consciously Blissful. My consciousness resides in the state of Loving, Freedom, Peaceful, Joyful, Grateful, Appreciating, Accepting, letting go of what I've been tied to, or what others try to tie me to. I offer up what I want, as a sacrifice, for something better for my higher good.

If everyone knew what propaganda they've been indoctrinated into (it's not anyone's personal accepance, it's not an informed choice - so it's coercion and manipulation) everyone would all revolt. In the U.S. there are two Constitutions, one isn't used because Individuals live there, the Corporation rules under the other one.

But Government = force, and they've learned that the best use of force is engendering appathy.
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Government schools are where they educate (us) Workers. It's Not a process of learning, but un-learning we need to foster.

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TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:20:42 PM

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clum wrote:


Definitely! It's an important part of American history and tradition and, as such, all citizens should learn about it (in my opinion).


Absolutely, my original point was, at the time we began saying it (I should say compelled to say it, sometime between the age of 6 and 7) My classroom was reciting phrases the meaning of which we had no idea of. If given to promote or 'pledge' loyalty to a flag or the country it represents, those being asked to speak those words should have a decent understanding of their meaning. I would guess that most children under the age of 10 or 12 couldn't define the word 'Allegiance' or have any real knowledge regarding 'the Republic, for which it (the flag) stands'.
EcStaceysRainbow
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:31:00 PM

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We used to be a federal constitutional republic, but we are in bondage to to International Banks.

On February 21, 1871 with the Forty-First Congress in session an Act was passed*. The title was "An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia" also known as the "Act of 1871."

EcStaceysRainbow
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:32:13 PM

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Ignorance is bliss
CleverFox
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:58:36 PM

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Who gives a crap? So kids recite some stupid ode to a piece of cloth. Big deal.
petersr
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:20:11 PM

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YES
RumpleForeskin
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:19:49 PM

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Yes. This nation of multiple ethnicities, beliefs and background needs icons around which its diverse citizens can meet. The pledge and the flag it mentions are two of the most important.

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lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:08:44 AM

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Do kids HAVE to say the Pledge of Allegiance? I don't know of anyone ever getting punished, reprimanded, bad grades for not saying it? When I was in school, from kindergarten until I graduated, we said the Pledge every day. But no one ever forced us or made us. Sometimes kids stood and didn't say or recite it. Sometimes kids goofed off and whispered to each other. Other times kids stood and bent over to finish writing their homework or some other task. If anyone got fussed at, it was for being disruptive, not for abstaining from pledging allegiance.

I don't have a problem with the Pledge being said each day at the beginning of the day. Anyone that doesn't want to participate doesn't have to, they can stand and remain respectful of those that do. No harm, no foul. But teachers should not punish students who choose not to recite the pledge.





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naughtynurse
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:12:33 AM

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What are the untied states anyway?


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Mazza
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:31:20 AM

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naughtynurse wrote:
What are the untied states anyway?


Ha, you beat me to it!! I just saw that myself...
drunken


As a matter of interest, I don't think that brainwashing kids by making them say something over and over everyday is that great an idea... Educate them properly, give them a country that they can be proud of and will naturally wish to be loyal to. Take care of them, teach them to take care of their fellow countrymen, instill moral values. Give them jobs, a decent healthcare system, educational system, welfare system etc etc...

Works much better I think... I mean there IS an element of saying something over and over again and starting to believe it, but surely it's preferable to actually give them those things rather than getting them to repeat it until they think it might be true, only to become disillusioned when they find out that it isn't?
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:08:00 AM

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RumpleForeskin wrote:
Yes. This nation of multiple ethnicities, beliefs and background needs icons around which its diverse citizens can meet. The pledge and the flag it mentions are two of the most important.

glasses8


And on that note.

Quote:
We are a nation of many nationalities, many races, many religions--bound together by a single unity, the unity of freedom and equality. Whoever seeks to set one nationality against another, seeks to degrade all nationalities. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt



Quote:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
ShellyTwizz
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:55:32 AM

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The Pledge of Allegiance should be said in schools all across America. Both private and public. It is this country that allows these schools to operate and to teach what they teach. The Pledge of Allegiance is important, it should be kept as it is now, and it should be kept in schools. It shoul dbe recited at every political event, sports game and anywhere that the American Flag is flown. Maybe I am ranting, but I love this country. As bad as times may get, or as bad as people may think things get - this is still a great country and anyone who CHOOSES to live here should Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the country for which Liberty and Justice for all is a staple of its lifestyle.
JohnC
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:38:42 AM

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My answer is, YES. It has always been said in the schools my children attend/attended and I think it is a good thing. Now I don't know of anyone disciplined for NOT saying the pledge, but I know all children must stand and show respect when it IS being recited. That is unless, of course, they can't stand. The same as when the National Anthem is played. It is about respect and you can bet that I would not put up with disrespect from others while both the pledge AND the Anthem is being played/recited. But then again, if I am in another country (as I have been many times) and THEIR Anthem is being played, I show IT respect as well.

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