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Petitions to secede from the United States after the election Options · View
tazznjazz
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:37:29 AM

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The White House has received secession proposals from numerous petitions on it's website after President Obama's re-election. Citizens from Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, N.Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia , Ohio, Michigan and other states have gathered hundreds of thousands of signatures asking for, to quote one petition ''Peacefully grant the republic of Ohio to withdraw from the United States of America and create it's own new government''. Another stated ''It would be a crime against the people of any state to hold them, against their will, in a union that they desire to leave''.

Signers are not required to list their last names on these petitions, but must create an account,provide a first and last name, Zip code and an email address. It was also noted that signers didn't have to reside in the state seeking separation, so that citizens from Michigan could support Ohio's departure from the union and N. Carolina could support S. Carolina's ouster.

Another petition was also launched to deport everyone who signs a petition to secede on the same White House website.

I personally think this kind of action does a serious injustice to the memory of the many Americans who gave their lives so that the union was preserved in the Civil War.

Anyone care to comment?
seeker4
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:52:15 AM

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Sounds to me like the same kind of electoral sour grapes that causes a spurt in inquiries about immigrating to Canada after a US election. In the end, it'll probably be nothing more than a lot of hot air being let out. Maybe round them all up and make them watch Spielberg's new movie about Lincoln to remind them what happened last time secession was tried in the US?

Part of my reaction may be coloured by growing up in a country where a province (Quebec) has seriously voted on secession twice in my lifetime (failing both times, though it was quite close in 1995). Compared to that, these petitions look like a tempest in a teapot.


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Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:43:30 PM

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I guess that those states are a little upset. I'm also gonna guess that they are going to have to get over it.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:14:57 PM

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It's just a bunch of tea-party types and evangelicals grimacing over their sour grapes, best I can tell. And this is not to minimize the very real concerns that some people have about the curbing of 1st Amendment rights over the past two administrations, or the real concern over the long-term effects of Obamacare, but for anyone to really think forming their own country from their state of residence is a practical option is kind of hilarious.
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:44:16 PM

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I don't think any normal/rational person thinks seceding from the union is a good idea or even possible. Sure, there are some jackholes that think it's a good plan. But I'd think most of the petition signers realize it's a symbolic gesture. At least I fucking hope so. It's a peaceful protest. Pres. Obama won re-election, that's fact. Also fact is that there are tens of millions of people that voted for the other guy, and those people feel frustrated. Those people feel they have no voice, at least not in a way they feel is being heard. So, they're exercising their right to be heard in another fashion. Taking a action via protest is common, people do it all the time. It's not different from any online petition that goes nowhere. But makes the collective voices of those people more easily heard.





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Milik_Redman
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:51:47 PM

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There is no mechanism in place for secession. This would be a disastrous precedent. The Civil War settled this issue once and for all.

I get really tired of extremist from either party threatening to leave if the other side wins. This is a great country, it is not perfect, but it certainly does not deserve this kind of disrespect.

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Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:09:25 PM

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Didn't Ohio vote for Obama? So using it as the independent state seems to be asking to end up with a government they don't like, since those residents will still lean a little left.
elitfromnorth
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:15:48 PM

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They're just finding back to their roots. Remember, the US was founded by pilgrims that wanted a place outside British law where they could freely persecute heretics and others and not risk punishment from more reasonable authorities.

Also, it would be interesting to see how much these states would be able to cope on their own. Especially since some of them are isolated. Not to mention the toll that would be put on goods that they produced and the costs to ship it outside the US(for some of the states). I say let them sit and scream. There will be others screaming in 4 years when you guys elect a Republican.

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TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:32:30 PM

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I hope if the conservative Hell that is Florida ends up seceding, I have enough time to get out first! I hear engineers are in demand in Denmark lol. I tell you, living among racist rednecks, ultra-conservatives, tea-bagger extremists and surrounded by people who think the 2nd Amendment gives them to right to own and keep automatic weapons and hoard ammunition scares the begeezus out of me. Around the time of the election, I was in line at a 7-11 store when I noticed the guy in line ahead of me was packing a big-ass revolver 'cowboy' style. He had to be at least 65 or 70 years old and looked quite frail. I prayed he wasn't also senile or an alzheimer's case. Florida can be a scary place, especially here along the tea-bag coast.
davie
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:52:35 PM

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That's what I just love about the America people. They shout about how democracy is so good and invade other countries to try and enforce democracy on them. Whem it comes down to it, however, the cannot accept the democratic decision in their own country.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:55:23 PM

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davie wrote:
That's what I just love about the America people. They shout about how democracy is so good and invade other countries to try and enforce democracy on them. Whem it comes down to it, however, the cannot accept the democratic decision in their own country.



LOL good point. And really, if you think about it, America became a country by seceding from another country. All they wanted was the chance to peacefully walk away from England, but England wasn't having it. Ironic and hypocritical then, that we now won't allow states to do the same for themselves.
CleverFox
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:01:21 PM

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It is just sour grapes. But I have to admit that I wouldn't be too butt-hurt if Texas seceded from the Union. J
Dirty_D
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:01:39 PM

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LadyX wrote:
It's just a bunch of tea-party types and evangelicals grimacing over their sour grapes, best I can tell. And this is not to minimize the very real concerns that some people have about the curbing of 1st Amendment rights over the past two administrations, or the real concern over the long-term effects of Obamacare, but for anyone to really think forming their own country from their state of residence is a practical option is kind of hilarious.
This


Dirty_D
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:02:19 PM

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LadyX wrote:



LOL good point. And really, if you think about it, America became a country by seceding from another country. All they wanted was the chance to peacefully walk away from England, but England wasn't having it. Ironic and hypocritical then, that we now won't allow states to do the same for themselves.


And this.

Mark this down. I completely agree with Lady X on something political :)


ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:35:44 PM

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LadyX wrote:



LOL good point. And really, if you think about it, America became a country by seceding from another country. All they wanted was the chance to peacefully walk away from England, but England wasn't having it. Ironic and hypocritical then, that we now won't allow states to do the same for themselves.


Actually, thats not what happened, its just what the history books written by the victors wrote.

The principle issues in the Boston Tea Party were the Mansfield declaration and the Canada act. Judge Mansfield had decided that slavery simply did not exist on British soil. At some point that judgement might be enforced in the colonies. The Canada act was passed by the British parliament after they got rather fed up of the colonists expanding into Indian territories, starting a war, calling on the army to protect them and then after the area was cleared of natives expanding into new territories. So the Canada act was passed which stated that all new territory would be part of Canada.

It was only after the army started behaving like complete jerks that the anti-slavery faction joined in the separatist cause.

MzRogue
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:45:41 PM

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This is absolute ridiculousness. I mean you cannot get the president you want with each election. So some people want to pull out of the United States... so what about those in the same state who do not? Also, the government pays for many things and provides many services that a single state may not on its own. Vaccinations, food, taxes, schools, programs, everything. Sounds to me as though these people are uneducated and bitter. Maybe they should have helped with the election more to try to get what they wanted.
ByronLord
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:59:06 PM

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MzRogue wrote:
This is absolute ridiculousness. I mean you cannot get the president you want with each election. So some people want to pull out of the United States... so what about those in the same state who do not? Also, the government pays for many things and provides many services that a single state may not on its own. Vaccinations, food, taxes, schools, programs, everything. Sounds to me as though these people are uneducated and bitter. Maybe they should have helped with the election more to try to get what they wanted.


And most of the states involved are big net beneficiaries of federal government spending.

I thought it rather rich of Romney to complain Obama won because he was offering to 'give people stuff'. He was the one trying to get elected with a $5 trillion tax give away.

doctorlove
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:42:08 PM

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I feel like the states or the united states are closer to some sort of seperation, than a stable economy. It may come to war, but I doubt it. There are ways to secede and not bring on war and with today's technology it is possible.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:05:44 PM

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I found some more rabble rousers.

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MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:31:41 PM

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Tempest, meet teapot. Teapot, tempest.

tazznjazz
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:54:04 PM

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CleverFox wrote:
It is just sour grapes. But I have to admit that I be too butt-hurt if Texas seceded from the Union.


LOL It would be an interesting country if Texas or Florida was independent, with no trade agreements or support from the U.S.. Total chaos with a taste of the wild wild west and shoot outs a common practice. About the first time a hurricane struck they'd miss FEMA and the red cross and would beg to be re-admitted.

The Confederacy quickly found itself with worse laws and restriction of freedoms, not to mention economic stagnation and while it's nice to think about less taxation, etc. etc. I would think they'd soon find nation building is a long process and never perfect, but the in the U.S. just having the right to petition the government speaks volumes for the sort of country we enjoy living in.
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:30:57 PM

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tazznjazz wrote:


LOL It would be an interesting country if Texas or Florida was independent, with no trade agreements or support from the U.S.. Total chaos with a taste of the wild wild west and shoot outs a common practice. About the first time a hurricane struck they'd miss FEMA and the red cross and would beg to be re-admitted.

The Confederacy quickly found itself with worse laws and restriction of freedoms, not to mention economic stagnation and while it's nice to think about less taxation, etc. etc. I would think they'd soon find nation building is a long process and never perfect, but the in the U.S. just having the right to petition the government speaks volumes for the sort of country we enjoy living in.


The Confederacy would probably have become a fascist dictatorship by now if they hadn't been forced back into the union. If Georgia seceded now I'd have to find another place to live. 1,761,761 people in Georgia voted for President Obama. Where can we all go? We'd have to share rooms with the 3,294,440 Texans who voted for him. Even if we stayed two to a room that would be a lot of rooms.

The people of the south have always been willing to do things that weren't in their own interest of course. One of the biggest scams that the ruling class of the south ever ran was the civil war. Slave owners who owned 15 or more slaves could get out of serving in the Confederate army. Poor whites who owned no slaves at all died to protect the interests of those who did. It took a hundred years to break out of the apartheid that resulted from the reconciliation. The poverty and ignorance of the south now results from the aristocratic system that still exists and has since antebellum days. That's the kind of system the Republican party wants for the United States, and is the kind of government the seceding states would have not long after secession.
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:40:28 AM

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Unemployment is back up and stocks are down.
tazznjazz
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:49:38 AM

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I didn't mean to single out the south, almost all the states had petitions from it's citizens.

Unemployment is up and stocks are down due to the same kind of people that want to secede having no confidence or patriotism if that is true.
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 5:42:17 AM

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Three months before the election, Obama had got back all the jobs that were lost on his watch and has since been cutting into the mess left for him by the previous administration. Unemployment is headed in the right direction. I love how no one on the right can admit he started from the worst possible spot. Every election states do these petitions but never have their been so many. I'm ashamed of my own home state due to the amount of racism involved. Two kinds of people sign those petitions: A) people who believed in Mitt Romneys policies and vision for America B) people who don't want a black man as president. Since I haven't met anyone on the right who could explain to me the differences between Romney and Obama's health care plans, how Romney's make-believe budget works, or why gays and lesbians do not deserve equal rights - I assume a lot more of the petitions were racially motivated. This is 2012. It is heartbreaking that we can so quickly wipe away the progression of the civil rights movement. Really heartbreaking.
LoverBoy20
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:03:47 AM

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What I find enjoyable is that Austin, Texas filed a petition to secede from Texas, if Texas secedes from the union!

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2433/20121115/texas-secession-austin-starts-petition-secede-state.htm
tazznjazz
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:29:51 AM

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LoverBoy20 wrote:
What I find enjoyable is that Austin, Texas filed a petition to secede from Texas, if Texas secedes from the union!

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2433/20121115/texas-secession-austin-starts-petition-secede-state.htm


You have to love Austin!
TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:39:52 AM

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tazznjazz wrote:


LOL It would be an interesting country if Texas or Florida was independent, with no trade agreements or support from the U.S.. Total chaos with a taste of the wild wild west and shoot outs a common practice. About the first time a hurricane struck they'd miss FEMA and the red cross and would beg to be re-admitted.

The Confederacy quickly found itself with worse laws and restriction of freedoms, not to mention economic stagnation and while it's nice to think about less taxation, etc. etc. I would think they'd soon find nation building is a long process and never perfect, but the in the U.S. just having the right to petition the government speaks volumes for the sort of country we enjoy living in.


Texas and Florida couldn't possibly expect that the US would leave any of the Federal resources behind, would they? There are 15 military bases in Texas and 21 in Florida - not to mention NASA facilities, FBI, Postal system, wild fire protection, and other federal services.. If they couldn't come up with some kind of trade treaty, I can't imagine them being allowed access to the US power grid, communications systems, all kinds of things they depend on sharing with the US now. Texas and Florida would both become third-world countries if they seceded from the US.

Texas gets back more than $1.06 from every federal tax dollar sent to DC, Florida's rate is just over $1.03 so it is fair to say that both states get more from the federal government than they contribute. I say let them go, just let me get the Hell out of FLA first! They should be careful what they wish for, they might just get it - then they'd be fucked.
TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:43:37 AM

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LoverBoy20 wrote:
What I find enjoyable is that Austin, Texas filed a petition to secede from Texas, if Texas secedes from the union!

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2433/20121115/texas-secession-austin-starts-petition-secede-state.htm


This forum needs a 'LIKE' button
And I just thought, Austin is the State Capital of Texas, not to mention the hippest community in the entire state, especially as far as Music and the arts go!
LadyX
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2012 10:10:43 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
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ByronLord wrote:


Actually, thats not what happened, its just what the history books written by the victors wrote.

The principle issues in the Boston Tea Party were the Mansfield declaration and the Canada act. Judge Mansfield had decided that slavery simply did not exist on British soil. At some point that judgement might be enforced in the colonies. The Canada act was passed by the British parliament after they got rather fed up of the colonists expanding into Indian territories, starting a war, calling on the army to protect them and then after the area was cleared of natives expanding into new territories. So the Canada act was passed which stated that all new territory would be part of Canada.

It was only after the army started behaving like complete jerks that the anti-slavery faction joined in the separatist cause.


My point is that, regardless of whatever political machinations occurred to force the issue, the American colonies did not seek a war with Britain once they declared independence. War was forced upon them.
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