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From personal experience, i'd say abso-goddamn-lutely. I should know, I used to be that really nice guy who treated women like queens only to learn that they are more attracted to the men who aren't so nice, who like to take control and make the women work for their attention. Am I wrong?
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Seeing as the world isn't made up of just two types of guys, that theory is horribly flawed. And just as all women aren't the same, the type of guy that they're attracted to wouldn't be the same so to generalize it like that is really short-sighted. One thing I've noticed though is that guys who like to class themselves as "The nice guy" are actually not all that nice and can turn into the biggest assholes in the world when they don't get their way. You can't group all guys into either assholes or nice guys. What about those that are in between? Or depending on their mood can be both? What about those who are neither assholes nor nice guys? Personally, I like a guy who I can spend time with, who makes me smile, who doesn't add to my stress and who I can just be myself with and have fun.
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one_winged_angel wrote:Seeing as the world isn't made up of just two types of guys, that theory is horribly flawed. And just as all women aren't the same, the type of guy that they're attracted to wouldn't be the same so to generalize it like that is really short-sighted.
One thing I've noticed though is that guys who like to class themselves as "The nice guy" are actually not all that nice and can turn into the biggest assholes in the world when they don't get their way.
You can't group all guys into either assholes or nice guys. What about those that are in between? Or depending on their mood can be both? What about those who are neither assholes nor nice guys?
Personally, I like a guy who I can spend time with, who makes me smile, who doesn't add to my stress and who I can just be myself with and have fun. yes it is of course a generalisation. Science experiments that deal with social groups generally are. And results vary, and are never conclusive. However, there has been strong evidence to support the theory that women (in general - NOT every single woman) tend to be (Again TEND TO, does not mean ALWAYS IS) be more attracted to males who show traits of good fatherhood and are more dominant and controling. It is believed to be an attrraction on an instinctive level, that serves the purpose of 'mate selection' in evolutionary biology mate selection is the process in which animals attract their opposite sex and choose which they instinctively feel has the supior gene to pass on their DNA (Evolution). If we put this theory in the context of modern human society. It is easy for me to make the connection with the behaviour of females that I have seen first hand. Now of course we are all different, also there are other factors to consider as to what women may find attractive in a man. For example the way a parent has treated them as a child has an influence on 'traits' that women may find attractive in a man.
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one_winged_angel wrote:Seeing as the world isn't made up of just two types of guys, that theory is horribly flawed. And just as all women aren't the same, the type of guy that they're attracted to wouldn't be the same so to generalize it like that is really short-sighted.
One thing I've noticed though is that guys who like to class themselves as "The nice guy" are actually not all that nice and can turn into the biggest assholes in the world when they don't get their way.
You can't group all guys into either assholes or nice guys. What about those that are in between? Or depending on their mood can be both? What about those who are neither assholes nor nice guys?
Personally, I like a guy who I can spend time with, who makes me smile, who doesn't add to my stress and who I can just be myself with and have fun. And be honest. Does a mans appearance influence your behaviour towards him? It's all very well they can make you smile and get on really well with you. But if your first impressions are judged on their appearance...........
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ArthurG77 wrote:
yes it is of course a generalisation. Science experiments that deal with social groups generally are. And results vary, and are never conclusive. However, there has been strong evidence to support the theory that women (in general - NOT every single woman) tend to be (Again TEND TO, does not mean ALWAYS IS) be more attracted to males who show traits of good fatherhood and are more dominant and controling. It is believed to be an attrraction on an instinctive level, that serves the purpose of 'mate selection' in evolutionary biology mate selection is the process in which animals attract their opposite sex and choose which they instinctively feel has the supior gene to pass on their DNA (Evolution). If we put this theory in the context of modern human society. It is easy for me to make the connection with the behaviour of females that I have seen first hand. Now of course we are all different, also there are other factors to consider as to what women may find attractive in a man. For example the way a parent has treated them as a child has an influence on 'traits' that women may find attractive in a man.
I don't mean to be all "I have a vagina so I know what women like" but. .. I sorta do  I don't know what kind of women you're hanging around but are you sure its that the guys are assholes or that you just don't like them because they get to be with the women that you want and you don't? From observing people (yes, I do a lot of that) I've noticed that after a girl breaks up with a guy, they LOVE to use the "Oh she just can't handle a nice guy and needs an asshole to take control of her" when what they really mean is "Waaaahh  she won't let me put my man parts in her anymore, so everyone who gets to do so is an asshole!" (these comments are in no way directed at you in a negative way, I'm just trying to make a point). There is no girl, unless she's seriously damaged, who's going to go "Eeeewww, look at that, there's a nice guy, no, no, no, do not want! Must find an asshole instead."
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ArthurG77 wrote:
yes it is of course a generalisation. Science experiments that deal with social groups generally are. And results vary, and are never conclusive. However, there has been strong evidence to support the theory that women (in general - NOT every single woman) tend to be (Again TEND TO, does not mean ALWAYS IS) be more attracted to males who show traits of good fatherhood and are more dominant and controling. It is believed to be an attrraction on an instinctive level, that serves the purpose of 'mate selection' in evolutionary biology mate selection is the process in which animals attract their opposite sex and choose which they instinctively feel has the supior gene to pass on their DNA (Evolution). If we put this theory in the context of modern human society. It is easy for me to make the connection with the behaviour of females that I have seen first hand. Now of course we are all different, also there are other factors to consider as to what women may find attractive in a man. For example the way a parent has treated them as a child has an influence on 'traits' that women may find attractive in a man.
I don't mean to be all "I have a vagina so I know what women like" but. .. I sorta do I don't know what kind of women you're hanging around but are you sure its that the guys are assholes or that you just don't like them because they get to be with the women that you want and you don't? From observing people (yes, I do a lot of that) I've noticed that after a girl breaks up with a guy, they LOVE to use the "Oh she just can't handle a nice guy and needs an asshole to take control of her" when what they really mean is "Waaaahh she won't let me put my man parts in her anymore, so everyone who gets to do so is an asshole!" (these comments are in no way directed at you in a negative way, I'm just trying to make a point). There is no girl, unless she's seriously damaged, who's going to go "Eeeewww, look at that, there's a nice guy, no, no, no, do not want! Must find an asshole instead."
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ArthurG77 wrote:
And be honest. Does a mans appearance influence your behaviour towards him? It's all very well they can make you smile and get on really well with you. But if your first impressions are judged on their appearance...........
yes, it does. have to be honest here - just like guys at a party/club/whatever kind of social situation they happen to be in are going to be more likely to want to go chat with the hot chick in the tight jeans and her blonde friend in the mini, girls are more likely to pay attention to the hot guy with the nice body and chiseled face. it's human nature, and sorry, that's the cold hard truth. now, once i find out that guys a douche bag, i'll move on, or if the nice guy who looks a little nerdy manages to build up enough self confidence to strike up a conversation with me and i find him interesting, yeah, i'll hang out with him, but come on, honestly, when meeting people for the first time, physical attraction plays a large part in both genders.
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If you're looking at evolutionary biology the males that are typically preferred are: - larger and/or stronger (to compete against other males and win rights to mate with the female) - biologically and physically fit (to pass on good genes to offspring) - intelligent and dominant (to lead the pack and/or gain access to the best resources) - animal-rich (ie. having a good den/nest, access to water and food, and able to keep future offspring secure) Do I think these things are often mirrored in what women find attractive in men? Yeah, for the most part. That doesn't mean that guys who aren't tall, strong, fit, intelligent, dominant and wealthy are the only guys that have any chance of success with women. But if you look at things realistically - that's kind of the prototype for the leading male in movies and a lot of literature. Being an asshole doesn't factor in. That guy may just seem like an asshole because he gets more attention from women. And when you have women constantly buzzing around you, you probably don't have to try as hard to get their attention and keep it. By the same token the guys who don't have these traits have to work overtime trying to max out the traits they can control - which is often being the "nice nurturing guy". Sometimes these guys go to extremes and become suffocating doormats and don't understand why, despite bending over backwards for a woman, they still aren't letting laid. As OWA said, they often carry a chip on their shoulder about this and can be passive aggressive with the whole "she must only be into assholes"... Nobody is deliberately into assholes. And being confident and dominant doesn't have anything to do with being an asshole. I kind of see it as a spectrum: Asshole..... Dominant/Confident/Alpha Guy.... Nice/Resourceful/Solid/Beta Guy.... Whiny/Passive-Aggressive/Nice Guy Most women are going to be attracted to something in the middle and not the extremes. And as Sprite said, appearance is important. So is personality obviously - it's the deal breaker. But the first thing you're probably going to respond to is whether you find the person physically attractive or not. A person that isn't that attractive at first glance can become more desirable if there's chemistry between personalities, but I'd argue that at least a low-grade baseline level of sexual attraction has to be there in the beginning.
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one_winged_angel wrote:I don't mean to be all "I have a vagina so I know what women like" but. .. I sorta do I don't know what kind of women you're hanging around but are you sure its that the guys are assholes or that you just don't like them because they get to be with the women that you want and you don't? From observing people (yes, I do a lot of that) I've noticed that after a girl breaks up with a guy, they LOVE to use the "Oh she just can't handle a nice guy and needs an asshole to take control of her" when what they really mean is "Waaaahh she won't let me put my man parts in her anymore, so everyone who gets to do so is an asshole!" (these comments are in no way directed at you in a negative way, I'm just trying to make a point). There is no girl, unless she's seriously damaged, who's going to go "Eeeewww, look at that, there's a nice guy, no, no, no, do not want! Must find an asshole instead." comment deletd
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sprite wrote:
yes, it does. have to be honest here - just like guys at a party/club/whatever kind of social situation they happen to be in are going to be more likely to want to go chat with the hot chick in the tight jeans and her blonde friend in the mini, girls are more likely to pay attention to the hot guy with the nice body and chiseled face. it's human nature, and sorry, that's the cold hard truth. now, once i find out that guys a douche bag, i'll move on, or if the nice guy who looks a little nerdy manages to build up enough self confidence to strike up a conversation with me and i find him interesting, yeah, i'll hang out with him, but come on, honestly, when meeting people for the first time, physical attraction plays a large part in both genders.
I absolutely agree 100%
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Dancing_Doll wrote:If you're looking at evolutionary biology the males that are typically preferred are:
- larger and/or stronger (to compete against other males and win rights to mate with the female)
- biologically and physically fit (to pass on good genes to offspring)
- intelligent and dominant (to lead the pack and/or gain access to the best resources)
- animal-rich (ie. having a good den/nest, access to water and food, and able to keep future offspring secure)
Do I think these things are often mirrored in what women find attractive in men? Yeah, for the most part.
That doesn't mean that guys who aren't tall, strong, fit, intelligent, dominant and wealthy are the only guys that have any chance of success with women. But if you look at things realistically - that's kind of the prototype for the leading male in movies and a lot of literature.
Being an asshole doesn't factor in. That guy may just seem like an asshole because he gets more attention from women. And when you have women constantly buzzing around you, you probably don't have to try as hard to get their attention and keep it. By the same token the guys who don't have these traits have to work overtime trying to max out the traits they can control - which is often being the "nice nurturing guy". Sometimes these guys go to extremes and become suffocating doormats and don't understand why, despite bending over backwards for a woman, they still aren't letting laid. As OWA said, they often carry a chip on their shoulder about this and can be passive aggressive with the whole "she must only be into assholes"...
Nobody is deliberately into assholes. And being confident and dominant doesn't have anything to do with being an asshole.
I kind of see it as a spectrum:
Asshole..... Dominant/Confident/Alpha Guy.... Nice/Resourceful/Solid/Beta Guy.... Whiny/Passive-Aggressive/Nice Guy
Most women are going to be attracted to something in the middle and not the extremes.
And as Sprite said, appearance is important. So is personality obviously - it's the deal breaker. But the first thing you're probably going to respond to is whether you find the person physically attractive or not. A person that isn't that attractive at first glance can become more desirable if there's chemistry between personalities, but I'd argue that at least a low-grade baseline level of sexual attraction has to be there in the beginning. I'd agree mostly with what you said. I was the beta guy but turned into the whiny guy. I couldn't help it.  I felt so low and blamed women for it, even though i know i shouldn't it's not so easy to brush off rejection after rejection. Now though i would say I hover between alpha and beta.
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:d/ his guy talks a LOT of sense
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I can't wait for OMKN's answer to this little gem!!! 
Now with audio!!!!
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Maybe Lush needs it's very own Clinical Psychologist!!
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well from my point of view id say yes cause im a nice guy and you know what they say nice guys finish last. just because i respect woman and treat them like queens i get stuck in the friend zone and watch them get mistreated and just take it.
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swollen wrote:Maybe Lush needs it's very own Clinical Psychologist!! He's exactly that! No???
Now with audio!!!!
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Jay24 wrote:well from my point of view id say yes cause im a nice guy and you know what they say nice guys finish last. just because i respect woman and treat them like queens i get stuck in the friend zone and watch them get mistreated and just take it. Fuckin 'A' - Precisley. Thanks.
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crazydiamond wrote:I can't wait for OMKN's answer to this little gem!!! Are you talikng about the thread. Or the amusing video?
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ArthurG77 wrote:
Are you talikng about the thread. Or the amusing video?
The thread, and you?
Now with audio!!!!
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crazydiamond wrote:The thread, and you? Me?  lol. Do I not talk sense?
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ArthurG77 wrote:Me? lol. Do I not talk sense? Put your finger away already.
Now with audio!!!!
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crazydiamond wrote:
Put your finger away already.
I figured this subject and my statements would be a bit of a debate whore.  hehe My finger is well away.
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crazydiamond wrote:
He's exactly that! No???
Are we thinking of the same cute puppy dog here??
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swollen wrote:Are we thinking of the same cute puppy dog here?? is there any other ;) ( but i doubt he'd like that term!!)
Now with audio!!!!
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swollen wrote:Are we thinking of the same cute puppy dog here?? It would be nice to have some of your's and crazydiamonds imput on this subject. 
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ArthurG77 wrote:I figured this subject and my statements would be a bit of a debate whore. hehe My finger is well away. I like this thread. You're self-aware enough to get the big picture, which is refreshing. :) I'm also a believer in evolutionary psychology and biological urges shaping a lot of human desires. I think it's also important to remember that regardless of how a guy treats a woman, it doesn't mean he's going to get her just because of that. This is what a lot of self-labeled nice guys often whine about. If I wasn't attracted to a guy or he was seriously lacking in the other major criteria I look for in a mate/boyfriend/fuckbuddy, then him bending over backwards to please me isn't really going to overcome that. Sometimes a girl just isn't into you. If a guy insists on sticking around or refuses to see this reality, he immediately gets dumped into the friend zone... but that's his own fault for flogging a dead horse. If she isn't into you, move on. Guys who are determined to sit on the sidelines, obsessively analyzing the girl's dating scene and whining because they can't be a part of it only have themselves to blame.
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Dancing_Doll wrote:
I like this thread. You're self-aware enough to get the big picture, which is refreshing. :)
I'm also a believer in evolutionary psychology and biological urges shaping a lot of human desires.
I think it's also important to remember that regardless of how a guy treats a woman, it doesn't mean he's going to get her just because of that. This is what a lot of self-labeled nice guys often whine about. If I wasn't attracted to a guy or he was seriously lacking in the other major criteria I look for in a mate/boyfriend/fuckbuddy, then him bending over backwards to please me isn't really going to overcome that. Sometimes a girl just isn't into you. If a guy insists on sticking around or refuses to see this reality, he immediately gets dumped into the friend zone... but that's his own fault for flogging a dead horse. If she isn't into you, move on. Guys who are determined to sit on the sidelines, obsessively analyzing the girl's dating scene and whining because they can't be a part of it only have themselves to blame.
Thanks. You talk so articulately. I bet you are a great Author. I was skeptical when I came to this 'Think Tank' that I would come accross people who wouldn't understand the tenets of evolutionary psychology or biology. But It's nice to see you have knowledge of the subject and are a fellow supporter of EP. It seems in Evolution all of our behaviours serve two fundermantall things: Survival and reproduction. Which I suppose is why we are so occupied with sex and violence as a species. Another thing that really hindered my ability to attract females was my low confidence, which manifested as shyness. It's a downward spiral. Confidence boosts sex appeal greatly.
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Dancing_Doll wrote:If you're looking at evolutionary biology the males that are typically preferred are:
- larger and/or stronger (to compete against other males and win rights to mate with the female)
- biologically and physically fit (to pass on good genes to offspring)
- intelligent and dominant (to lead the pack and/or gain access to the best resources)
- animal-rich (ie. having a good den/nest, access to water and food, and able to keep future offspring secure)
Do I think these things are often mirrored in what women find attractive in men? Yeah, for the most part.
That doesn't mean that guys who aren't tall, strong, fit, intelligent, dominant and wealthy are the only guys that have any chance of success with women. But if you look at things realistically - that's kind of the prototype for the leading male in movies and a lot of literature.
Being an asshole doesn't factor in. That guy may just seem like an asshole because he gets more attention from women. And when you have women constantly buzzing around you, you probably don't have to try as hard to get their attention and keep it. By the same token the guys who don't have these traits have to work overtime trying to max out the traits they can control - which is often being the "nice nurturing guy". Sometimes these guys go to extremes and become suffocating doormats and don't understand why, despite bending over backwards for a woman, they still aren't letting laid. As OWA said, they often carry a chip on their shoulder about this and can be passive aggressive with the whole "she must only be into assholes"...
Nobody is deliberately into assholes. And being confident and dominant doesn't have anything to do with being an asshole.
I kind of see it as a spectrum:
Asshole..... Dominant/Confident/Alpha Guy.... Nice/Resourceful/Solid/Beta Guy.... Whiny/Passive-Aggressive/Nice Guy
Most women are going to be attracted to something in the middle and not the extremes.
And as Sprite said, appearance is important. So is personality obviously - it's the deal breaker. But the first thing you're probably going to respond to is whether you find the person physically attractive or not. A person that isn't that attractive at first glance can become more desirable if there's chemistry between personalities, but I'd argue that at least a low-grade baseline level of sexual attraction has to be there in the beginning. always as wise and succinct as one could be
Trying to sound cool. Too much work left.
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I think there is an element that most women will sub-consciously gravitate toward a more dominant male. This goes back to days of creation, the human instinct for self-survival and the man being the natural hunter. However, as for women being attracted to 'the dominant, alpha-male asshole type' I think most intelligent women soon see through these traits, and whilst you will always get those that remain to be mistreated, most will soon move on to try and find a more 'reliable' mate. 
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