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Should the NFL postpone the Panthers vs Chiefs game Sunday? Options · View
Rembacher
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 11:53:36 AM

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http://www.therecord.com/news/world/article/846802--police-say-kansas-city-chiefs-player-killed-girlfriend-then-committed-suicide

This is an extremely sad story I saw in the news today. For those who don't want to read the details, I'll summarize it by saying that a 25 year old Kansas City Chiefs player killed his girlfriend then drove to the stadium and committed suicide in front of his coaches. I'm not looking to start a debate on suicide, murder, or anything like that. What I am interested in, is the reaction to the below quote from the article:

Quote:
Kansas City is scheduled to host the Carolina Panthers on Sunday. The league has informed the Panthers to travel as scheduled because the game is going on as scheduled.


This seems extremely callous to me. This game should be postponed a day or two at the very least. Any other work place would have shut down and brought in grief counselors for the employees who need it. The coaches who witnessed the suicide in person should not have to coach a football game the day after watching someone they worked with on a daily basis take his own life. If the coaches don't have any problem with coaching so soon after something like that, I think they are more fucked up than the man who took his own life.

So, what say you Lush? Should this game be postponed? Why or why not?
principessa
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 2:59:05 PM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
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Location: Canada
I am not a sports fan and don't like football at all, but I do have an opinion.

Of course the game should be postponed by any standard of ethics, decent behaviour and compassion. However, football is a very big business in the United States and has an almost religious status, even at high school and college level, never mind the NFL. It is not going to happen unless the fans themselves put an enormous amount of pressure on the league and shame them into doing the right thing. It was this kind of public outrage that caused the New York Marathon to be cancelled after Sandy.

Guest
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:22:14 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641
they should absolutely delay the game until after the funeral so the players have a chance to grieve,and the coaches have a chance to see therapists over what they witnessed this morning,for Roger Goodell to order the game goes on is a cowardly and chickenshit thing to do,he should be ashamed of himself
Marshall_Lewis
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:25:58 PM

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Location: South Charleston , United States
I really do understand why they should postponed the game, but you got to look at like this as well. Some players in the NFL, play to show there greif instead of talking to counselors. A few years ago we had two diffrent tragic deaths in the Washington Redskins Sean Taylor(who was died in a hospital, after 3 robbers broke in and shot him) in 2007, and the Redskins choose to play for his memory, they took the feild with 10 players on the first play of the game they offered counselors were offered but the team still choose to play, and the Cincinnati Bengals Chris Henry(Got in a argument with his wife, jumped in the back of the truck she was driving and fell out and hit is head) in 2009, the team choose to still play San Diego and using big plays as there way to death with his death(Slim loved big plays.) What I am saying is the teams choose to play in the memory instead of seeing counsloers, even though they are provided to them by the team owners. Damn , as a Bengals fan and writing this I miss the hell out of Chris Henry r.i.p. Slim and Sean Taylor was a monster at saftey, r.i.p. Sean Taylor.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:44:33 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641
This is a tough one. I am a professional performer and was in a group thatonce lost a member who was on his way to the gig and got into an auto accident. We took a vote backstage and because we knew musically we could get through the show we decided to perform. We could have elected not to as this was a ryder in our contract that counted as An Act of God but we decided to pay and it actually helped all of us to start to deal with the situation. My heart and condolances go out to all the people who were affected by this tragedy but being a professional you go out and do what you do.
LadyX
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 8:38:21 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Ideally, they would push the game back, and that should go without saying. But the NFL is a money machine, and the money machine only stops when the pressures of money loss or a massive public black eye (leading to money loss) force it to. I like the NFL, but at the root, it's a pretty ugly scene. These guys are (granted, well-compensated) gladiators. They're paid to "leave it all out on the field", and until we were all forced to recognize the realities of head trauma, we made a side-sport of celebrating debilitating tackles and collisions within the games. So, they're paid slabs of meat. When one goes down, it's next man up. Grief counseling? Who cares, grieve on your own time and play your ass off.

Should Crennel (the head coach who watched his player kill himself) be given some time to process what he just witnessed? Absolutely. And I suppose we could all discover come game time that he took the game off and named an interim coach for the game from his staff, but I doubt it. That show goes on almost no matter what. Sadly, in this case, it's not your normal workplace.
Buz
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 10:34:53 PM

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Location: Atlanta, United States
Millions of dollars would be lost if the postponed. There is a strict schedule to follow. I understand why people would feel that it should be, but football players would almost always prefer to play the game. It's in their mindset. I think they can express their grief best by playing, especially since this was a murder-suicide. I myself would rather work through the emotions of a teammate dying in any manner by playing the game. I grew up playing football and would still love to.

lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:11:01 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
The players decided that they wanted to play the game. I think the NFL left it up to the team and the players to decide, they decided they'd rather play. That time between the lines was probably a welcome diversion from the reality around them. It's a horrible situation and a young woman lost her life. Tragic is an understatement. The Chiefs should not do anything to honor the memory of the player and should do all it can to help the baby left behind and the mother's family. His remaining contract salary should be divided up. Some should go to whoever raises the child, but most should be put into a trust fund for him/her when he/she turns 18 or 21 years old.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:53:14 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Here's a really good take on this, that perhaps it shouldn't have been up to the players and coaches at all. God forbid King Football be pre-empted, even for one game, while we reflect on what happened. Even if none of us can do anything to change or help the realities involved, we are unhealthily numb in unwillingness to stop the morphine drip of media-entertainment. The NFL's sheer greed goes without saying here.
Naughty_Magician
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 7:31:10 PM

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People deal with grief in different ways and just because they decided to play doesn't mean they don't care. What if the game helps them get over it, do we really want them to huddle and weep?

I remember watching the press trying to question Paul McCartney after John Lennon was shot and he was walking to his studio.

Had a dream I was king, I woke up still king!!
Buz
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 7:36:48 PM

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Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,769
Location: Atlanta, United States
The murder-suicide aspect certainly makes it much weirder and difficult to cope with. I think all of us would like to think that we don't have any friends capable of doing anything like that, but you never know for sure. Tragic for sure.

doctorlove
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:35:53 PM

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No! The remaining players work their butts off every day and come game day its time to play! Why stop the game for one dumbass?
sprite
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:55:26 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,519
Location: My Tower, United States
doctorlove wrote:
No! The remaining players work their butts off every day and come game day its time to play! Why stop the game for one dumbass?


i think the point is, that the coaches whom he committed suicide in front of and his fellow players might be going thru some emotional and mental trauma in the after math - THEY are the ones the game would be stopping for. i know that, if a fellow worker walked into my job and shot himself in front of me, i might not be ready to come back to work and be 100% for the next few days...

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
DLizze
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:58:05 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 4/23/2011
Posts: 2,552
Regardless of what terms professional sports are couched in, the bottom line is they are in the entertainment business. And, as with any other facet of entertainment, the show must go on.

Last August, I played a run of Hairspray, in which one of the leading actresses and her daughter, who was also in the cast, lost their huband and father to a motorcycle accident on Friday night. They performed the Saturday show and the Sunday matinee, and the following weekend anyway. They said there were two reasons: 1 - People had bought tickets ahead of time, and not performing would be unfair to paying audiences; and, 2 - (they both said) he would have wanted them to do their performances.

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
doctorlove
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:12:13 AM

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sprite wrote:


i think the point is, that the coaches whom he committed suicide in front of and his fellow players might be going thru some emotional and mental trauma in the after math - THEY are the ones the game would be stopping for. i know that, if a fellow worker walked into my job and shot himself in front of me, i might not be ready to come back to work and be 100% for the next few days...


I think it was only a couple of the coaches and maybe they didnt make the game. The NFL teams have alot of coaches and are well staffed

I am sure that the team owners and NFL are taking care of players and coaches. Not playing is not going to change what happened. Stay off the roids!
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:27:25 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,288
Location: Cakeland, United States
I think with hindsight, this sad situation which has played out in my area for the last few days has illustrated that the ownership of the club, the management of the the company, the leadership provided by the coaching staff and the camaraderie amongst the employees all benefited by having an activity to perform together 28 to 32 hours after they all experienced a shocking event which touched almost everyone in that organization personally. Over two hundred people were involved with the team directly and personally knew one or both of the people who died on that previous Saturday morning.

Almost every single person rose to the occasion during a period of extreme mental and emotional trauma. They were able to take solace in something trivial to the rest of us as a 'game'. But this game is something that every single person close to that organization has invested a large part of their lives (to this point) identifying with.

There was a victim and her murderer, who, almost immediately after he committed his heinous act, realized that he had severely fucked the fucking fuck up. The young woman was known by all the player's wives and girlfriends and by the organization and most all of the players on the team. She was quite active within that close-knit community and many of the men thought of her as a sister. She was the first cousin of the wife of the starting 'star' halfback. It was that player and his wife who introduced her to the man who would, a few years later, be her executioner during what can only be described now as a moment of someone going absolutely fucking insane (for whatever reason).

There is nothing in this life which cannot be fixed over time. There is no justification for taking another persons life except to prevent that person from taking yours (in my humble opinion).

The hardest thing for each of those involved so closely with each of the deceased people involved, is how to reconcile now...their emotions. The men on the team lost a comrade/brother/friend/mentor/pupil. He was many things to many people and then he became a murderer. The young woman was many things to many people and then she became a victim. The child, born to both of the deceased, became an orphan within the space of half an hour.

How do those associated with the two victims, process what occurred? They lost two people close to them in the blink of an eye and one of those people became something many recoil from.

The players decided they would rather have something to do, someplace to spend their time together in the immediate aftermath.

They were fortunate that they had a 'game' to invest themselves within. They were all there at (for many of them) their second most intimate gathering place - together.

The fact that the murderer (unfortunately, that's what he will always now be remembered as - for me) drove immediately to the same location after pumping nine bullets into his beloved's body, should tell you how most all of those other men feel about their chosen profession.

It is where they all gravitate towards, after they leave their family confines. To their second family.

They were fortunate that they all were together, that they had each other to lean on, to depend upon, to find strength and comfort with.

I won't begrudge them for at least having that little bit of comfort.

They performed nearly flawlessly. The general manager and the head coach and the defensive coordinator (job titles only) all witnessed the young man kill himself...they witnessed a troubled young man taking the only route which he felt he could take in order to escape the horrid emotional situation he had created.

For one 36 hour period, everyone else associated with that NFL employer, rose to the occasion and shined through what for many of them - has been the toughest thing they've personally experienced to date. And I'm not talking about the final score of an otherwise meaningless American football game that will be forgotten over time.

Most all of those who performed their chosen activities that Sunday, were walking wounded, yet they all seemed to eventually slide into some calm comfort zone and pull together. They were the calmest group of violent sportsmen I've ever seen. And this has been a squad of inattentive bumblers, fuckup-artists and dismal derelicts unlike any I have seen in nearly 35 years of watching and playing that 'game'.

That 4 hour game day period was their beginning point to make sense of the tragedy. I'm glad that they went through with it - hopefully it contributed to saving some degree of sanity for each of them.

Now comes the grieving which will also last a lifetime for many.

Sometimes it is not all about the money.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:50:34 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,372
Location: Alabama, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:
I think with hindsight, this sad situation which has played out in my area for the last few days has illustrated that the ownership of the club, the management of the the company, the leadership provided by the coaching staff and the camaraderie amongst the employees all benefited by having an activity to perform together 28 to 32 hours after they all experienced a shocking event which touched almost everyone in that organization personally. Over two hundred people were involved with the team directly and personally knew one or both of the people who died on that previous Saturday morning.

Almost every single person rose to the occasion during a period of extreme mental and emotional trauma. They were able to take solace in something trivial to the rest of us as a 'game'. But this game is something that every single person close to that organization has invested a large part of their lives (to this point) identifying with.

There was a victim and her murderer, who, almost immediately after he committed his heinous act, realized that he had severely fucked the fucking fuck up. The young woman was known by all the player's wives and girlfriends and by the organization and most all of the players on the team. She was quite active within that close-knit community and many of the men thought of her as a sister. She was the first cousin of the wife of the starting 'star' halfback. It was that player and his wife who introduced her to the man who would, a few years later, be her executioner during what can only be described now as a moment of someone going absolutely fucking insane (for whatever reason).

There is nothing in this life which cannot be fixed over time. There is no justification for taking another persons life except to prevent that person from taking yours (in my humble opinion).

The hardest thing for each of those involved so closely with each of the deceased people involved, is how to reconcile now...their emotions. The men on the team lost a comrade/brother/friend/mentor/pupil. He was many things to many people and then he became a murderer. The young woman was many things to many people and then she became a victim. The child, born to both of the deceased, became an orphan within the space of half an hour.

How do those associated with the two victims, process what occurred? They lost two people close to them in the blink of an eye and one of those people became something many recoil from.

The players decided they would rather have something to do, someplace to spend their time together in the immediate aftermath.

They were fortunate that they had a 'game' to invest themselves within. There were all there at (for many of them) their second most intimate gathering place - together.

The fact that the murderer (unfortunately, that's what he will always now be remembered as - for me) drove immediately to the same location after pumping nine bullets into his beloved's body, should tell you how most all of those other men feel about their chosen profession.

It is where they all gravitate towards, after they leave their family confines. To their second family.

They were fortunate that they all were together, that they had each other to lean on, to depend upon, to find strength and comfort with.

I won't begrudge them for at least having that little bit of comfort.

They performed nearly flawlessly. The general manager and the head coach and the defensive coordinator (job titles only) all witnessed the young man kill himself...they witnessed a troubled young man taking the only route which he felt he could take in order to escape the horrid emotional situation he had created.

For one 36 hour period, everyone else associated with that NFL employer, rose to the occasion and shined through what for many of them - has been the toughest thing they've personally experienced to date. And I'm not talking about the final score of an otherwise meaningless American football game that will be forgotten over time.

Most all of those who performed their chosen activities that Sunday, were walking wounded, yet they all seemed to eventually slide into some calm comfort zone and pull together. They were the calmest group of violent sportsmen I've ever seen. And this has been a squad of inattentive bumblers, fuckup-artists and dismal derelicts unlike any I have seen in nearly 35 years of watching and playing that 'game'.

That 4 hour game day period was their beginning point to make sense of the tragedy. I'm glad that they went through with it - hopefully it contributed to saving some degree of sanity for each of them.

Now comes the grieving which will also last a lifetime for many.

Sometimes it is not all about the money.


Very well said, WMM.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
elitfromnorth
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:33:02 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

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Posts: 1,617
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Thing is that sport in the US is different from European sport. Owners of NFL clubs expect to earn some money off it, hence the club isn't a club, it's a business, a large business. Any other workplace that size won't shut down because an employee kills his wife and kills himself.

And what about the fans? I don't know how many of the away fans are at NFL matches, but I'm guessing most of them will have made travel arrangements, maybe spending the night and taking time off work. How will they get their money back if the match is postponed? The hotels and whatever else they use to travel aren't obliged to give them their money back.

As for the athletes they will be fine. To perform at top level you have to be able to push everything out of your head and focus on your task only. Usually they prefer doing that. More often than not it gives them an extra boost.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:57:06 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
So, to analogize as closely as possible to the NFL: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Russian Superleague teams aren't driven by profit, and somewhat beholden to commitments to fans, media, and broadcasting?
elitfromnorth
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 1:52:28 PM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,617
Location: Burrowed, Norway
LadyX wrote:
So, to analogize as closely as possible to the NFL: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Russian Superleague teams aren't driven by profit, and somewhat beholden to commitments to fans, media, and broadcasting?


The clubs themselves are attempted to be driven as profitable as possible, but the owners rarely see any money turned back to them. In the cases of Manchester City and Chelsea in the EPL and now Paris St. Germain in Ligue 1 you have filthy rich owners spewing in tons of money to buy players and put wages on them. Unlike the NFL there's no drafting, so you pretty much buy a player like a slave, only that you pay the slave ridicilous amounts of money. Football has no wage limit, it's up to the financial of the clubs. Real Madrid and Barcelona in La Liga has debt that would put most other businesses to bankrupcy, but since they're so big they get to continue taking up these ridicilously large loans. In the case of Barcelona it's actually owned mainly by a trust that's again owned by regular fans. Any profit the clubs have are either used to pay off debts or purchase new players to strengthen the squad, not in the owner's pockets. European football don't do drafting, it's buying and selling.

And postponing the match isn't surreal to them, simply because they already got payed and the channels that show football are pure sports channels. Having to play it during midweek will force them to skip the re-run of a netball match, in other words; the channels won't have much against moving the matches. Especially considering the way some of the rules are.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:04:17 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,288
Location: Cakeland, United States
Guest
Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:41:55 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,641
Not to be cold or callous due to such unfortunate circumstances but there is a 16 game schedule for a reason. I'm sure the players had some time to meditate over what happened and were able to receive counseling earlier in the week. Grieving for such a tragedy takes time but they'll have their off season to grieve over what happened. I'm sure the players weren't directly affected as the head coach and front office management were who witnessed the unfortunate turn of events. Why a person would want someone to witness them kill themselves is beyond my comprehension.
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