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Should cage fighting be legalized universally? Options · View
DamonX
Posted: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:08:12 PM

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I'm not sure how much interest this will create among the lush crowd, but I thought I'd post it anyways.

The recent death of cage fighter Michael Kirkham has caused a bit of an uproar in the sports community. With mixed martial arts being the fastest growing sport in the world, the recent unfortuate death of Kirkham has stalled the legalization of MMA in New York State and in Ontario, (two of the biggest potential markets).

What do you think? Should it be viewed as any other sport? Or codemned as barbaric and dangerous? boxing
Guest
Posted: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:48:20 PM

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Universally??

I think that in all sports you get those who will look at it (whatever the sport is) as barbaric, etc. I have even been told that my beloved ice hockey is legalized battering (by a few Lushies nonetheless!). Funny, many never say that about other contact sports such as football.

After seeing how in shape and devoted those athletes are, I was in AWE!! I think it was indeed unfortunate about Kirkham, but every sport will have a death, injury, etc. The athletes love their sport and are aware of what may go wrong.

(thinking about the luger at the beginning of the Winter Olympics)

So with my two-bits worth of opinion, all sports develop more safety as unfortunate things happen.

(thinking about helmets in hockey, extra padding in football, etc)

If a sport such as this gets shut down, and is so popular, we will end up having an underground network that won't have a table of counsel to ensure safety - then things will really spiral out of control.

Van

Guest
Posted: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:25:53 PM

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Ive never seen cage fighting, but I have a rough idea of what it is.

If the people that are doing it, are doing it out of free will and receive some sort of enjoyment out of it, then why not?
DamonX
Posted: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:58:48 PM

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VanGogh wrote:

Universally??

I think that in all sports you get those who will look at it (whatever the sport is) as barbaric, etc. I have even been told that my beloved ice hockey is legalized battering (by a few Lushies nonetheless!). Funny, many never say that about other contact sports such as football.

After seeing how in shape and devoted those athletes are, I was in AWE!! I think it was indeed unfortunate about Kirkham, but every sport will have a death, injury, etc. The athletes love their sport and are aware of what may go wrong.

(thinking about the luger at the beginning of the Winter Olympics)

So with my two-bits worth of opinion, all sports develop more safety as unfortunate things happen.

(thinking about helmets in hockey, extra padding in football, etc)

If a sport such as this gets shut down, and is so popular, we will end up having an underground network that won't have a table of counsel to ensure safety - then things will really spiral out of control.

Van



good post van! And good point. Since the invention of MMA there have only been two deaths in sactioned events. in the same amount of time there has been 63 deaths during football. Nobody is calling for the banning of football though. dontknow
She
Posted: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:13:03 PM

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I don't see why not..
Every sport is rough (in a different way, of course), every sport demands sacrifices and some of them even death. I am sure that all participants are aware of that and that they get good money out of it, I assume.
As long is no one forced into something I have no problem if they do it or if it's going to called a sport but if I will watch it is a different story,lol
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:01:45 AM

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The only thing I have questions about is the morality of the promoters. Are the fighters being treated fairly? Are they being compensated properly? There's plenty of corruption in boxing, and that's one of the most regulated sports we have. Knowing that blood sells, if an unscrupulous MMA promoter were to start recruiting fighters that were more muscle than brain, how bloody could he arrange to make his fight? How deadly could they make the fights before an outraged public decided that they went too far?

Guest
Posted: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:54:48 AM

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I fought in a cage match once.... very exciting... fun.... rather scary... but I loved it! And I won :p
Guest
Posted: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:32:49 PM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
The only thing I have questions about is the morality of the promoters. Are the fighters being treated fairly? Are they being compensated properly? There's plenty of corruption in boxing, and that's one of the most regulated sports we have. Knowing that blood sells, if an unscrupulous MMA promoter were to start recruiting fighters that were more muscle than brain, how bloody could he arrange to make his fight? How deadly could they make the fights before an outraged public decided that they went too far?


you will always find promoters and agents who use the object for their own greedy desires - it has been well documented not only in sports but in the arts such as musicians (and in business, etc.).

for many athletes, it is the love of their sports that spurs them on. no one can stop the ill-advised and the greedy agent.

Van
DamonX
Posted: Saturday, July 03, 2010 6:44:07 PM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
The only thing I have questions about is the morality of the promoters. Are the fighters being treated fairly? Are they being compensated properly? There's plenty of corruption in boxing, and that's one of the most regulated sports we have. Knowing that blood sells, if an unscrupulous MMA promoter were to start recruiting fighters that were more muscle than brain, how bloody could he arrange to make his fight? How deadly could they make the fights before an outraged public decided that they went too far?



I think there are a few scumbag promoters out there. But MMA is governed by athletic commissions that tend to make sure that safety is maintained. They also disallow any matches that they think may be deemed "non-competitive". The problems occur in smaller promotions that don't have the funds to pay for things like pre-fight MRIs.

I'm not sure how much of a issue a fighter's intelligence is. Like all sports, there are smart ones and dumb ones. It doesn't really impede their athletic ability. Like in other sports, the fighters have to amass an amateur record before going pro. Contrary to popular belief, you can't just walk in off the street and compete in professional MMA. It takes years of training and amatuer bouts before they compete for money.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, July 03, 2010 7:16:58 PM

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DamonX wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
The only thing I have questions about is the morality of the promoters. Are the fighters being treated fairly? Are they being compensated properly? There's plenty of corruption in boxing, and that's one of the most regulated sports we have. Knowing that blood sells, if an unscrupulous MMA promoter were to start recruiting fighters that were more muscle than brain, how bloody could he arrange to make his fight? How deadly could they make the fights before an outraged public decided that they went too far?



I think there are a few scumbag promoters out there. But MMA is governed by athletic commissions that tend to make sure that safety is maintained. They also disallow any matches that they think may be deemed "non-competitive". The problems occur in smaller promotions that don't have the funds to pay for things like pre-fight MRIs.

I'm not sure how much of a issue a fighter's intelligence is. Like all sports, there are smart ones and dumb ones. It doesn't really impede their athletic ability. Like in other sports, the fighters have to amass an amateur record before going pro. Contrary to popular belief, you can't just walk in off the street and compete in professional MMA. It takes years of training and amatuer bouts before they compete for money.


But if you had somebody like a Don King figure, maybe coupled with a couple Vince McMahon types, and they pooled up their resources to fund their own league... I'm wondering how many bloody, arms-broken, ears-ripped-off pay-per-view matches it would take before the American public decided they had had enough. Or would they? Would the fights just escalate in violence until they became death matches? Or would the populace vote with their pocketbooks, and refuse to watch? If you could find a way to wager on this, I'd bet blood sports would win over morality.

DamonX
Posted: Saturday, July 03, 2010 7:36:17 PM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
DamonX wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
The only thing I have questions about is the morality of the promoters. Are the fighters being treated fairly? Are they being compensated properly? There's plenty of corruption in boxing, and that's one of the most regulated sports we have. Knowing that blood sells, if an unscrupulous MMA promoter were to start recruiting fighters that were more muscle than brain, how bloody could he arrange to make his fight? How deadly could they make the fights before an outraged public decided that they went too far?



I think there are a few scumbag promoters out there. But MMA is governed by athletic commissions that tend to make sure that safety is maintained. They also disallow any matches that they think may be deemed "non-competitive". The problems occur in smaller promotions that don't have the funds to pay for things like pre-fight MRIs.

I'm not sure how much of a issue a fighter's intelligence is. Like all sports, there are smart ones and dumb ones. It doesn't really impede their athletic ability. Like in other sports, the fighters have to amass an amateur record before going pro. Contrary to popular belief, you can't just walk in off the street and compete in professional MMA. It takes years of training and amatuer bouts before they compete for money.


But if you had somebody like a Don King figure, maybe coupled with a couple Vince McMahon types, and they pooled up their resources to fund their own league... I'm wondering how many bloody, arms-broken, ears-ripped-off pay-per-view matches it would take before the American public decided they had had enough. Or would they? Would the fights just escalate in violence until they became death matches? Or would the populace vote with their pocketbooks, and refuse to watch? If you could find a way to wager on this, I'd bet blood sports would win over morality.


Actually if you look at the evolution of the sport you can see that it has become increasingly less violent over time. The UFC started out in 1993 as a "no rules" fighting tournament, which is far removed from the sport today. There is absolutely no indication that it will get more violent, since fights have to be approved by state athletic commissions to occur. The incorrect perceptions arise as a result of ignorance of the sport, but are decreasing as the sport grows in popularity. The fights have not escalated in violence, even though that seems to be the position of the ill-informed as they equate it with some kind of "Mad Max" scenario.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:56:08 PM

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i have a friend who is a cage fighter. and he swears by it. actually, i think it could be too brutal, as even i could hurt someone, and im an old man , but to make ir tlegal i think is wrong. if i can get in trouble for slapping someone why should they be able to get away with it
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:34:28 PM

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gabby212 wrote:
i have a friend who is a cage fighter. and he swears by it. actually, i think it could be too brutal, as even i could hurt someone, and im an old man , but to make ir tlegal i think is wrong. if i can get in trouble for slapping someone why should they be able to get away with it


Haha confusing! So which is it?? Should it be illegal or not?

I think its just right as a legal sport. The guys are so cut I just love it!
SIL50
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:46:28 PM

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I train in a MMA gym sure it's not without risk. I injured my knee in practice, and most of the time you are going to get busted up in a real fight. Your gloves weigh 4oz and they only keep you from injuring your knuckles when striking. But really it is no more dangereous than any other sport, and has recorded fewer deaths than other combat sports.
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 6:21:49 AM

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She wrote:
I don't see why not..
Every sport is rough (in a different way, of course), every sport demands sacrifices and some of them even death. I am sure that all participants are aware of that and that they get good money out of it, I assume.
As long is no one forced into something I have no problem if they do it or if it's going to called a sport but if I will watch it is a different story,lol


not golf. golf is not violent..a gentleman's sport to be sure. the most mentally challenging game in the world of sports. i love golf.
She
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:58:16 AM

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LittleMissBitch wrote:
She wrote:
I don't see why not..
Every sport is rough (in a different way, of course), every sport demands sacrifices and some of them even death. I am sure that all participants are aware of that and that they get good money out of it, I assume.
As long is no one forced into something I have no problem if they do it or if it's going to called a sport but if I will watch it is a different story,lol


not golf. golf is not violent..a gentleman's sport to be sure. the most mentally challenging game in the world of sports. i love golf.


ha ha, true, true! However I did say in a different way and you did say that golf is most mentally challenging game, so could it be that is mentally rough?
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:59:37 AM

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She wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
She wrote:
I don't see why not..
Every sport is rough (in a different way, of course), every sport demands sacrifices and some of them even death. I am sure that all participants are aware of that and that they get good money out of it, I assume.
As long is no one forced into something I have no problem if they do it or if it's going to called a sport but if I will watch it is a different story,lol


not golf. golf is not violent..a gentleman's sport to be sure. the most mentally challenging game in the world of sports. i love golf.


ha ha, true, true! However I did say in a different way and you did say that golf is most mentally challenging game, so could it be that is mentally rough?


indeed indeed!! it really is! touche!
Rontre
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:50:26 AM

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Every fighter going in knows what the risks are. That's true in any other sport. You take a risk of your life every time you drive a vehicle,knowing there is a drunk driver out there somewhere. If they are competent enough to make the decision to do this kind of fighting then I say let 'em have at it... Btw Ladies, would a game of chess be more mentally challenging than a game of golf? But I'm not sure if playing chess is considered a sport. Only thinking!!!
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:32:18 AM

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Yes. Every sport is dangerous. A baseball can fucking kill you. I think a third or first base coach got killed not to long ago by a sharply hit ball. I don't remember hearing of a fighter dying in the octagon.



Guest
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:39:46 AM

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Rontre wrote:
Every fighter going in knows what the risks are. That's true in any other sport. You take a risk of your life every time you drive a vehicle,knowing there is a drunk driver out there somewhere. If they are competent enough to make the decision to do this kind of fighting then I say let 'em have at it... Btw Ladies, would a game of chess be more mentally challenging than a game of golf? But I'm not sure if playing chess is considered a sport. Only thinking!!!


hmmm, interesting. what is more challenging..golf or chess. i think they challenge in different ways. in chess you are trying to out think your opponent. in golf you have to be careful not to out think yourself. they say that golf is not really played on a course but in the 6 inches between your ears.
standingbear
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:06:28 PM

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I'm in favor of grown ups being able to do what they want as long as they are aware of the consequences and what they do doesn't hurt anyone else.

Golf is about as interesting to watch as Chess to me.

"Happiness is doing it rotten your own way."Isaac Asimov (1994)
SIL50
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:20:43 PM

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How many people here have actually been to an MMA event? I've been to more than I can remember, and have only seen 5 major injuries. Yes Felix iscorrect no one has died in the octagon unlike boxing. There have however been 5 deaths that I personally know of as a result of injuries sustained during a fight. Still overall I believe it to be a reasonably safe sport. According to my son who has done both more people are hurt in soccer than any other sport.
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:04:57 PM

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SIL50 wrote:
How many people here have actually been to an MMA event? I've been to more than I can remember, and have only seen 5 major injuries. Yes Felix iscorrect no one has died in the octagon unlike boxing. There have however been 5 deaths that I personally know of as a result of injuries sustained during a fight. Still overall I believe it to be a reasonably safe sport. According to my son who has done both more people are hurt in soccer than any other sport.


Yeah, I played soccer for ten years. Dislocated both of my knees. My left one several times. Good thing they healed up well and don't give me problems now. One of my teamates broke a rip, another his nose several times. Soccer is a dangerous fucking sport. Maybe like ten or so years ago I remember a player from the Mexican leagues going for a diving header only to be kicked full force in the head. He died.



SIL50
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:23:01 PM

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One of my friends took an illeagle knee to the face during a MMA fight crushed both eyesockets broke nis nose and jaw . He's not bitter understood it might happen. won't ever fight again, but is a hell of a coach.

Maybe we should bam soccer, yeah right LOL
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27:41 PM

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SIL50 wrote:
One of my friends took an illeagle knee to the face during a MMA fight crushed both eyesockets broke nis nose and jaw . He's not bitter understood it might happen. won't ever fight again, but is a hell of a coach.

Maybe we should bam soccer, yeah right LOL


Damn... I hope he wasn't pretty before that.



DamonX
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:22:17 PM

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Wow. I never thought this one would get revived. :)

Two people have been killed in sanctioned MMA events. (both in small time promotions with inadequate pre-fight medical testing).

Compare that with football.

It's simply a matter of education. in this case, perception and reality are still miles apart.
LadyX
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:34:17 PM

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DamonX wrote:
Wow. I never thought this one would get revived. :)

Two people have been killed in sanctioned MMA events. (both in small time promotions with inadequate pre-fight medical testing).

Compare that with football.

It's simply a matter of education. in this case, perception and reality are still miles apart.


Agreed, and nobody's making football illegal anytime soon, even though they're freaking out about hits to the head lately.

Besides....I fucking love MMA!
SIL50
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 11:21:34 PM

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I agree with Damon on this one. All but one of the deaths I know of associated with MMA were in small time promotions. The other was in a midlevel European league. I can only speak for the promotions currently active in my area which are amateur only(pro fights have been halted until my state forms a commission to over see them) the only medical check you have to go through pre fight is a BP check by a paramedic. Although every fighter is given a quick once over after the fight. Still even as amateurs you have to pass a certification. No one is going to walk off the street and into a ring or cage, if the promoter has any sense.
SIL50
Posted: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:27:37 PM

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Becuase I'm going to gues most of those here have never been to the fighters meeting prior to an event, let me relate a little of what you are told. First: this is a dangereous sport, there is always the chance you can severely injured or suffer fatal injuries. Second: If you feel at any point in the fight you are out matched verbally tap. It's better to quit and fight again than become injured and never fight or be the same again. You MUST protect yourself!! Third: they discuss the rules which are almost always based on those used in UFC, with emphasis placed on point of the elbow strikes to the head and kicks to a downed opponet both dangereous and illeagal. Then they make sure everyone has had their medical check and all paperwork is in order. Finally they go over pairings and fight order, then dismiss.

I think most promoters really try to do their best for the fighters, but it is in the end a combat sport and there is always the chance something could go wrong.
sassycheergirl
Posted: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:32:16 PM

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My nephew is into cage fighting right now...And yes he gets black eyes and injuries, BUT its his outlit for his anger issues...He does very well actually and makes some good money. So I dont see why it couldnt be legalized. At the events he fights at they always have medical personal there just in case.


*smiles, hugs, and lollipops*



Sassy
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