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1st Amendment suspended in the Gulf ! Options · View
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 11:44:26 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,299
Location: Cakeland, United States
What in the Fuck, Obama?!?

Happy fucking National Holiday weekend. For BigOil and oligarchies.



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Playmale
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:02:55 PM

Rank: Smiley Guru

Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 551
Location: United States
WellMadeMale wrote:

Happy fucking National Holiday weekend. For BigOil and oligarchies.


Good find WMM.

Every US citizen reading this is either either happy/too apathetic to actually take some responsibility about it or mad as hell and contacting their elected officials to VOICE YOUR OPINION!

Freedom is not our right, it is our duty.

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:25:25 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Unfortunately, that's in line with what's been happening to this point down there from everything that I've heard. The last thing BP, it's contractors, or their buddies- the coast guard and feds, want is for concerned citizens to actually know what the fuck is going on. Hell, if everyone knows just how bad it is and just how little is being done, then people might really get upset and demand action. Granted it's not likely as long as there are plenty of cheese puffs and miller lights in the fridge, but this is just an example of the same thing that's been happening ever since this whole thing started.

Those with the power will shut the rest of us out. They'll do it by force, and now, they'll do it by the rule of law. The only difference is how ballsy it is for the government to actually go through with it and announce it. But then again, that fucker Thad Allen will probably say damn near anything with the promise of another cupcake. Don't forget, that's the dumbass that said nobody could determine if the oil washing ashore would have a bad effect on nature and wildlife. He's the guy they trot out to announce all of BPs fuckups. Not BP's actual guy, who's probably at a polo tournament or some shit.

Where does it end? I wish this was surprising, but to me it isn't. Government can't be trusted any more than the corporations that purchase their protection. Elected officials can't be trusted because the same companies are in their pockets. So I'll take Playmale's advice, I'll look up my congressperson and write the email in complaint of this. Then I'll wait for the form-letter email that I'll get in return, telling me he's doing all he can, appreciates my input. Bullshit, bullshit. It's hard to get up for that when you know your opinion doesn't matter in the least. If it did, government wouldn't pull this shit to begin with. They'll get away with it; they're getting away with it now.

If I was Exxon-Mobil, it would be a different story.
Playmale
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:13:36 PM

Rank: Smiley Guru

Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 551
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
They'll do it by force, and now, they'll do it by the rule of law.


This in not law. This is exactly against the law.

LadyX wrote:
Government can't be trusted ...


Now you're talking like one of the founding fathers of the country!
Happy Indepencence Day!
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:13:41 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
I am in Iraq, so I cannot spend 3 hours waiting for Mr Gay Blade from the Communist News Network to download to my computer, so no, I don't know what he spin he has to play...

The Obama administration has dithered on this situation, caling in panels of experts with no expertise, refusing to allow foreign vessels in to our waters, and refusing to allow local jurisdictions to manage their own mitigating responses. Remember, never waste a good crisis....

The oil that has leaked from this unfortunate incident is far less than was spilled in an accident in Mexico and the same gulf in 1979. Mother nature took care of that one just fine. Most of you could not likely even think of that which I am writing about....

The volume of oil that has leaked has been reported to be less than that that would fill New Orleans' Super Dome 1/6th of the way. And in a basin as big as the Gulf....

Sure, some wildlife has been affected, and people's livelihoods curtailed, and businesses threatened or shuttered. BP has already succumbed to illegal extortion from the Obama administration, and is putting plenty of $$ in the hands of corrupt administrators to dole out how and where it is politically expedient.

That poor pelican will be the poster boy for tirades against corporations (who employ how many of you, and whose CEOs and big money makers plow their money back into start-ups and entreprenurial ventures that the rest of us neigher have the money to do, nor the vision nor vantage point from which to do it?) but how many birds are being maimed and slaughtered each year in Callifornia alone by the inefficient eyesores that are wind turbines? Estimates in CA alone are 140,000 birds annually.

(Read up on T-bone Pickens and his quiet decision to scrap and try to re-sell $2b worth of wind turbine equipment he has chosen NOT to set up for sheer inefficiency and poor output. The guys with the money are usually pretty smart.)

Obama was sure able to read Rolling Stone fast, wasnt' he? Sure came to a decision on firing McChrystal ( a slam-dunk decision anyway ) after it took him, what, 7 months to decide about sending troops over there? I bet the Arizona immigration law is shorter than Rolling Stone's piece, but neither Obama nor his AG had time to read that before reacting, huh?

Folks, I don't know what Cooper has to say....he may be spot on. This administration is no respecter of the Constitution, and will use "rule of law" in a perverted sense to ram through their idealogue's World Order and Marxist agenda. So, I don't doubt profane uses of law enforcement and tweaking, bending and end-runs vs the laws.

I know this - Rod Blago's trial is heating up. Obama's $1T donation/payola to labor unions and economically unfeasible green efforts (check out how well Spain's Green economy is going) has produced no lasting jobs. His poll numbers are abysmal.

The Gulf incident, and the finger pointing at big business and energy producers, is just too convenient for Mr. Obama to carry on towards November...

Government under constitutional liberalism and this Republic should fear the people, not the other way around. Generally, politics and government are simply tools by one group to try to subjugate another. There are lots of people running scared these days, and we have to think critically and independently, for ourselves, as to who is really doing what to whom. And why.

Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:10:52 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,106
Chuck wrote:
I am in Iraq, so I cannot spend 3 hours waiting for Mr Gay Blade from the Communist News Network to download to my computer, so no, I don't know what he spin he has to play...

The Obama administration has dithered on this situation, caling in panels of experts with no expertise, refusing to allow foreign vessels in to our waters, and refusing to allow local jurisdictions to manage their own mitigating responses. Remember, never waste a good crisis....

The oil that has leaked from this unfortunate incident is far less than was spilled in an accident in Mexico and the same gulf in 1979. Mother nature took care of that one just fine. Most of you could not likely even think of that which I am writing about....

The volume of oil that has leaked has been reported to be less than that that would fill New Orleans' Super Dome 1/6th of the way. And in a basin as big as the Gulf....

Sure, some wildlife has been affected, and people's livelihoods curtailed, and businesses threatened or shuttered. BP has already succumbed to illegal extortion from the Obama administration, and is putting plenty of $$ in the hands of corrupt administrators to dole out how and where it is politically expedient.

That poor pelican will be the poster boy for tirades against corporations (who employ how many of you, and whose CEOs and big money makers plow their money back into start-ups and entreprenurial ventures that the rest of us neigher have the money to do, nor the vision nor vantage point from which to do it?) but how many birds are being maimed and slaughtered each year in Callifornia alone by the inefficient eyesores that are wind turbines? Estimates in CA alone are 140,000 birds annually.

(Read up on T-bone Pickens and his quiet decision to scrap and try to re-sell $2b worth of wind turbine equipment he has chosen NOT to set up for sheer inefficiency and poor output. The guys with the money are usually pretty smart.)

Obama was sure able to read Rolling Stone fast, wasnt' he? Sure came to a decision on firing McChrystal ( a slam-dunk decision anyway ) after it took him, what, 7 months to decide about sending troops over there? I bet the Arizona immigration law is shorter than Rolling Stone's piece, but neither Obama nor his AG had time to read that before reacting, huh?

Folks, I don't know what Cooper has to say....he may be spot on. This administration is no respecter of the Constitution, and will use "rule of law" in a perverted sense to ram through their idealogue's World Order and Marxist agenda. So, I don't doubt profane uses of law enforcement and tweaking, bending and end-runs vs the laws.

I know this - Rod Blago's trial is heating up. Obama's $1T donation/payola to labor unions and economically unfeasible green efforts (check out how well Spain's Green economy is going) has produced no lasting jobs. His poll numbers are abysmal.

The Gulf incident, and the finger pointing at big business and energy producers, is just too convenient for Mr. Obama to carry on towards November...

Government under constitutional liberalism and this Republic should fear the people, not the other way around. Generally, politics and government are simply tools by one group to try to subjugate another. There are lots of people running scared these days, and we have to think critically and independently, for ourselves, as to who is really doing what to whom. And why.



"Mr Gay Blade?" "Communist News Network?" How about you come back when you are ready to participate in a rational discussion rather than resort to a tactic my English teachers refer to as "poisoning the well." This tactic is where you can't beat the other person's argument, so you attack the person themselves, usually with unfounded accusations, and venom.

Are you familiar with Senator Joseph McCarthy? He did this a lot. He would refer to anyone who argued against him as a communist. If you had the guts to stand up to him, saying that he was crazy, well you must be a communist, and deserved to be blacklisted, or jailed.

What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.

As for the limited valid comments you did make, they seem to be more directed at the oil spill, and not the 1st amendment being suspended. We have two threads where your comments would have been closer to being on topic.

However, since you didn't post there, I will address one of your points here. You blame wind-turbines for the deaths of birds, which it is true, they kill some birds. They don't however wipe out virtually all the fish and birds in a specific area, like the oil spill is doing. From the research I saw, the wind turbines are far less responsible for bird deaths than other man made technologies such as power lines, and glass windows.

And I'm not sure how you can classify something that requires no real input to produce energy as inefficient, but maybe you and I just define efficiency differently.


http://science.howstuffworks.com/wind-turbine-kill-birds.htm


Quote:
Man-made structure/technology
Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats
Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines
130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial)
100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides
70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles
60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers
40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines
10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]


­
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:21:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?
Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:42:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,106
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?


How does the holiday change anything? You'll notice I said it was my belief, or perception, if you will, not a fact. It being your national holiday does not temporarily or permanently remove all the reports I've read about the US military, it's illegal interrogations of both innocent and guilty prisoners, or the country that advocates this behaviour far too vocally for my liking.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:52:10 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Jebru wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?


How does the holiday change anything? You'll notice I said it was my belief, or perception, if you will, not a fact. It being your national holiday does not temporarily or permanently remove all the reports I've read about the US military, it's illegal interrogations of both innocent and guilty prisoners, or the country that advocates this behaviour far too vocally for my liking.


You could use a little tact and decorum Jeb.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:54:10 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
No kidding Chef, but he's Canadian and doesn't celebrate the 4th. Anyone who's been shot at knows what to fear ... they don't need a General to tell them to be afraid. Stand in front of a gun in the hands of someone who hates you Jebru, you'll know exactly what to fear then. You'll find that everywhere in war are testosterone crazed young men, including the enemy, and they're just as afraid as the next soldier/sailor/marine/airman. You don't have to be brainwashed to be afraid of the enemy, and there's a lot more thought into war than you think. Tactics are not for idiots, if you don't think in combat, you will be killed.

Have an opposite opinion is one thing, but slamming a nations military to defend your opinion about something non-military in nature is the same thing you were commenting on, it seems you are "poisoning the well" in response. There are a lot of US military vets on this board that you just insulted, including me. I've never been scared into shooting first and thinking later, nor have I ever known anyone that did. Should I generalize all Canadians by your words? Do you represent your entire nation? I really hope not for their sake.

The US certainly does not vocally advocate illegal interrogations, and the interrogations are not limited to the US to be sure. You shouldn't point your broad finger at the US for mishaps in war, we're not the only ones doing it. As a matter of fact, the enemy of the US(and the other nations involved over there) in the Middle East do far worse things to our military than we do to them. I would pray for waterboarding if I were held hostage by the Taliban or Al Qaeda, what they do makes our techniques look humble.
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:59:17 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Chuck wrote:
I am in Iraq, so I cannot spend 3 hours waiting for Mr Gay Blade from the Communist News Network to download to my computer, so no, I don't know what he spin he has to play...

The Obama administration has dithered on this situation, caling in panels of experts with no expertise, refusing to allow foreign vessels in to our waters, and refusing to allow local jurisdictions to manage their own mitigating responses. Remember, never waste a good crisis....

The oil that has leaked from this unfortunate incident is far less than was spilled in an accident in Mexico and the same gulf in 1979. Mother nature took care of that one just fine. Most of you could not likely even think of that which I am writing about....

The volume of oil that has leaked has been reported to be less than that that would fill New Orleans' Super Dome 1/6th of the way. And in a basin as big as the Gulf....

Sure, some wildlife has been affected, and people's livelihoods curtailed, and businesses threatened or shuttered. BP has already succumbed to illegal extortion from the Obama administration, and is putting plenty of $$ in the hands of corrupt administrators to dole out how and where it is politically expedient.

That poor pelican will be the poster boy for tirades against corporations (who employ how many of you, and whose CEOs and big money makers plow their money back into start-ups and entreprenurial ventures that the rest of us neigher have the money to do, nor the vision nor vantage point from which to do it?) but how many birds are being maimed and slaughtered each year in Callifornia alone by the inefficient eyesores that are wind turbines? Estimates in CA alone are 140,000 birds annually.

(Read up on T-bone Pickens and his quiet decision to scrap and try to re-sell $2b worth of wind turbine equipment he has chosen NOT to set up for sheer inefficiency and poor output. The guys with the money are usually pretty smart.)

Obama was sure able to read Rolling Stone fast, wasnt' he? Sure came to a decision on firing McChrystal ( a slam-dunk decision anyway ) after it took him, what, 7 months to decide about sending troops over there? I bet the Arizona immigration law is shorter than Rolling Stone's piece, but neither Obama nor his AG had time to read that before reacting, huh?

Folks, I don't know what Cooper has to say....he may be spot on. This administration is no respecter of the Constitution, and will use "rule of law" in a perverted sense to ram through their idealogue's World Order and Marxist agenda. So, I don't doubt profane uses of law enforcement and tweaking, bending and end-runs vs the laws.

I know this - Rod Blago's trial is heating up. Obama's $1T donation/payola to labor unions and economically unfeasible green efforts (check out how well Spain's Green economy is going) has produced no lasting jobs. His poll numbers are abysmal.

The Gulf incident, and the finger pointing at big business and energy producers, is just too convenient for Mr. Obama to carry on towards November...

Government under constitutional liberalism and this Republic should fear the people, not the other way around. Generally, politics and government are simply tools by one group to try to subjugate another. There are lots of people running scared these days, and we have to think critically and independently, for ourselves, as to who is really doing what to whom. And why.



Did you intentionally hijack this thread or did you just let it fly and hit 'post' before you really thought about it? Like Jebru said, your take really has more business on one of the other 'oil spill' threads, but I can respond to a few things.

1) I do recommend actually listening to the video from Mr. (right-wing nutjob nickname deleted) before commenting on the thread. Not sure you were actually interested in anything beyond plopping down your rant, but if you were, it would've helped- that being the point of the thread and all.

2) You're factually wrong about the 1979 oil spill. Depending on where you get your info, this spill either just passed it in volume or is about to. In either case 'far less' isn't even close to true. And yes, the comparisons have been made more and more frequently as time goes on in this spill. Everyone hopes you're right, that nature can mend itself better than many are predicting.

3) The rest of your act looks like a list of talking points out of a right-wing website. We get it- you think Obama's a crook, and everyone around him is a crook, etc. etc. I don't disagree with the idea of corruption all the way up and down the government either, I don't think they're that interested in helping regular folk. The only difference is, you're so obviously partisan about it that it's hard to read it with a straight face. Either way, I think the thread was about one incident involving the rights of citizens and reporters. You should look into it, then you might actually have an opinion on the issue being discussed here. I'm sure somebody besides that network you hate, (insert crazy political slurs here), will have something on it.


Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:26:15 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Well we know why they did it, to keep the public from seeing what's really going on. But 65' is not very far either, I mean come on ... what photographer doesn't have a lens that can zoom in 65' away? For most people, not speaking of people who live in rural areas, but most subdivisions that I've seen in Florida anyway, only have 50' right-of-ways. Stand on your sidewalk and look across the road to the other sidewalk ... that's 50'. I have a 5 year old digital camera that will zoom that far. I think the media is blowing this out of proportion like a child throwing a tantrum because the gummit took their lollipop. Is it right? No. Can the media still photograph the booms, birds, etc? Yes.
Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:33:30 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,106
freefallin1309 wrote:
Well we know why they did it, to keep the public from seeing what's really going on. But 65' is not very far either, I mean come on ... what photographer doesn't have a lens that can zoom in 65' away? For most people, not speaking of people who live in rural areas, but most subdivisions that I've seen in Florida anyway, only have 50' right-of-ways. Stand on your sidewalk and look across the road to the other sidewalk ... that's 50'. I have a 5 year old digital camera that will zoom that far. I think the media is blowing this out of proportion like a child throwing a tantrum because the gummit took their lollipop. Is it right? No. Can the media still photograph the booms, birds, etc? Yes.


You do have a point with that, and I'll take that one step further, in some cases, being closer than 65 feet would be too close to take an effective picture. It wouldn't show the full story. But I think there are also some cases where not being able to get within 65 feet means that there would be too many obstacles in the way to take the picture.
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:38:33 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Jebru wrote:
freefallin1309 wrote:
Well we know why they did it, to keep the public from seeing what's really going on. But 65' is not very far either, I mean come on ... what photographer doesn't have a lens that can zoom in 65' away? For most people, not speaking of people who live in rural areas, but most subdivisions that I've seen in Florida anyway, only have 50' right-of-ways. Stand on your sidewalk and look across the road to the other sidewalk ... that's 50'. I have a 5 year old digital camera that will zoom that far. I think the media is blowing this out of proportion like a child throwing a tantrum because the gummit took their lollipop. Is it right? No. Can the media still photograph the booms, birds, etc? Yes.


You do have a point with that, and I'll take that one step further, in some cases, being closer than 65 feet would be too close to take an effective picture. It wouldn't show the full story. But I think there are also some cases where not being able to get within 65 feet means that there would be too many obstacles in the way to take the picture.


65 feet is just a number- nobody's going to roll out the tape measure. The denial of access is what's real. The breaking of laws for security reasons that everyone knows is bullshit- that's what is real.

They'll say whatever the fuck they want to say, and their goons will continue to turn the media away, just as they've been doing, only now, they'll site 'safety concerns' while pointing a gun at their back.

So I disagree that the media blows this out of proportion. Lately, I think the media doesn't scream from the rooftops about nearly enough things, this being one of them. Thad Allen, BP, contractors, and the feds are making these rules up as they go along, and as the visuals get worse, they'll make it harder to see them.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:39:37 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Something I've wondered about with all the media and people just wanting to see it up close is, doesn't all the boat propellers churn it up more and make it harder to contain?
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:44:15 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
I think they're making it up as they go along as well but, not for the same reasons as you do perhaps. I'm not saying that they're not trying to cover anything up. We may never know that but, I just don't think anyone knows what to do in this situation because we don't have things like this happen everyday. No one knows protocol. The government works on a "need to know" basis daily.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:47:55 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
LadyX wrote:

65 feet is just a number- nobody's going to roll out the tape measure. The denial of access is what's real. The breaking of laws for security reasons that everyone knows is bullshit- that's what is real.

They'll say whatever the fuck they want to say, and their goons will continue to turn the media away, just as they've been doing, only now, they'll site 'safety concerns' while pointing a gun at their back.

So I disagree that the media blows this out of proportion. Lately, I think the media doesn't scream from the rooftops about nearly enough things, this being one of them. Thad Allen, BP, contractors, and the feds are making these rules up as they go along, and as the visuals get worse, they'll make it harder to see them.


I don't think they need rules to keep the media at bay, they can do that all by themselves all day long without creating the first rule. Like you said, they may be making rules up as they go along ... but they don't need to, they do whatever they want regardless. If they really wanted, they would keep the media further away and shoot on site and then cover it up. Rules are for people that follow them. The gummit doesn't need to follow them.
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:56:12 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
freefallin1309 wrote:

I don't think they need rules to keep the media at bay, they can do that all by themselves all day long without creating the first rule. Like you said, they may be making rules up as they go along ... but they don't need to, they do whatever they want regardless. If they really wanted, they would keep the media further away and shoot on site and then cover it up. Rules are for people that follow them. The gummit doesn't need to follow them.


Interesting point about the boat turbines stirring up the oil. I'm not sure how much more stirring can be done, what with the 'dispersants', but otherwise, I can't think of any reason, other than outrage-control, that people need to be restricted from information....which is exactly why they do it.

I have no doubt that you're right about that. They'll do whatever they want and more, responsible to nobody. Saying they're not doing things that they're clearly doing, talking about freedom and equality while practicing neither. How depressing, man. What a country, f'd up just like any other in our own special ways. evil5

Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 7:07:31 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Jebru wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?


How does the holiday change anything? You'll notice I said it was my belief, or perception, if you will, not a fact. It being your national holiday does not temporarily or permanently remove all the reports I've read about the US military, it's illegal interrogations of both innocent and guilty prisoners, or the country that advocates this behaviour far too vocally for my liking.


Jebru, why don't you tone it down, you don't have insult people here to make a point.

If you don't like Americans keep it to yourself. This isn't the forum for it. If you want to discuss things rationally then be my guest. Everyone has opinions and beliefs and that includes bigots just as well as saints.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 7:16:04 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Kyle wrote:
Jebru wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?


How does the holiday change anything? You'll notice I said it was my belief, or perception, if you will, not a fact. It being your national holiday does not temporarily or permanently remove all the reports I've read about the US military, it's illegal interrogations of both innocent and guilty prisoners, or the country that advocates this behaviour far too vocally for my liking.


Jebru, why don't you tone it down, you don't have insult people here to make a point.

If you don't like Americans keep it to yourself. This isn't the forum for it. If you want to discuss things rationally then be my guest. Everyone has opinions and beliefs and that includes bigots just as well as saints.



hello1 Right on Kyle
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:27:40 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
chefkathleen wrote:

You could use a little tact and decorum

I think from time to time, we could all improve on that, don't you?



After this little message, I'm sending an email to my congressman, who I just looked up. I'll voice my opposition, and it won't make a difference, but at least I'll have done more than bitch and moan, however good I am at that.

I see some fireworks from where I sit in this restaurant. Happy Fourth for those that celebrate it.
Playmale
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 11:24:28 PM

Rank: Smiley Guru

Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 551
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
After this little message, I'm sending an email to my congressman, who I just looked up. I'll voice my opposition...


Best thing I've read on this thread! Good for you LadyX!
mrplow
Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 11:54:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/5/2007
Posts: 1,030
Location: Here and now
What's happening in the gulf is fucking disgraceful. Excuse my french.

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:22:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,401
Jebru,

I don't know you, but every indication is that your head occupies the place beneath the tail of a donkey.

I don't carry a gun. Nice try. You have no idea how well trained, disciplined and smart many of these soldiers are. You should see the responsibilities they have, and how they take care of one another. The varied responsibilities and accomplishments of many NCO and Jr officers would make any bureaucrat look like a kindergarten dunce. They also know about respect and decorum. Seems you missed out on pretty much all of that.

As I have spent 5 of the last 6 years of my life over here, I don't really have the luxury to sit around and listen to the radio, watch t.v., or read particular commentaries. Your assumptions are appalling. My observations are made relatively independantly, thank you.

So, your figures for bird kills seem a bit "spun." You can spin all you want.

Tell me why a billionaire would be selling all the wind turbines he bought rather than have them erected? Just cuz he has money to throw around?

CNN and the AP and Reuters are worried about First Amendment rights? You don't think it is about ratings, really?

How about the video clips on the dolt Dem council woman from Milwaukee who was ready to boycott businesses from Arizona since Arizona is not a border state and should not be making laws re: immigration?

And the ones of Rep Pete Stark (D-Ca) making comments about the Minutemen murdering people?

Can't recall the 3rd instance this past WEEK alone where the freedom-loving liberal press has YANKED video clips that would embarrass their causes (yes, independent media with causes? professional, ethical - so old school) from the internet rather than let people see them? That's freedom of the press, by the press, for the press.....

I don't buy Mr Cooper's hypocracy and feigned slights. He is in bed with all the wrong people, and none of his efforts will produce anything redeeming.



LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:36:57 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Guys, unless we want to see our posting options limited to dog/cat jokes and questions about orgasms, we better keep the heat down on these kinds of topics. I think to this point we've been given some leeway, let's not ruin it by slamming countries and their militaries. People- including me sometimes- get passionate and worked up, but let's check ourselves before we stay carried away too long.


Chuck wrote:


CNN and the AP and Reuters are worried about First Amendment rights? You don't think it is about ratings, really?

How about the video clips on the dolt Dem council woman from Milwaukee who was ready to boycott businesses from Arizona since Arizona is not a border state and should not be making laws re: immigration?

And the ones of Rep Pete Stark (D-Ca) making comments about the Minutemen murdering people?

Can't recall the 3rd instance this past WEEK alone where the freedom-loving liberal press has YANKED video clips that would embarrass their causes (yes, independent media with causes? professional, ethical - so old school) from the internet rather than let people see them? That's freedom of the press, by the press, for the press.....

I don't buy Mr Cooper's hypocracy and feigned slights. He is in bed with all the wrong people, and none of his efforts will produce anything redeeming.


I'm certainly not somebody who can say you're definitely wrong that media carry agendas. I'm sure they do- I read about it, and because I'm not a complete idiot, I pick up on it on my own too. So I'm sure info does get buried by both 'sides', if there are only two, which I doubt. Media's not free of bias, nobody and nothing is.

But, compared to corporations and federal government? Hell, they might as well be saintly. Short of standing there ourselves, it's the best thing we have. You think most media is leftist and wanting to help build some sort of wacko state? I don't agree, but if that's your opinion, that's cool and the gang, everyone's got one. I don't know that CNN doesn't factor in their ratings when they squawk about 1st Amendment rights. I don't know how many dumbass statements by left-leaning talking heads that they choose not to run. I don't know their intentions and frankly don't care.

Here's what I do know: regardless of all of that, the rights are being restricted. They at CNN, etc. can live with their own motives, but the facts in this case aren't up for discussion. I don't need to trust media, I just want the things they- the government and responsible companies- don't want to show us. The fact that I'm powerless to affect change is another subject, I'm afraid.

By the way, if anyone knows of any underground blogs/news sources for the whole oil spill effects subject, I'd love it if you shared.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:07:36 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,141
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


But, compared to corporations and federal government? Hell, they might as well be saintly. Short of standing there ourselves, it's the best thing we have. You think most media is leftist and wanting to help build some sort of wacko state? I don't agree, but if that's your opinion, that's cool and the gang, everyone's got one. I don't know that CNN doesn't factor in their ratings when they squawk about 1st Amendment rights. I don't know how many dumbass statements by left-leaning talking heads that they choose not to run. I don't know their intentions and frankly don't care.

Here's what I do know: regardless of all of that, the rights are being restricted. They at CNN, etc. can live with their own motives, but the facts in this case aren't up for discussion. I don't need to trust media, I just want the things they- the government and responsible companies- don't want to show us. The fact that I'm powerless to affect change is another subject, I'm afraid.

By the way, if anyone knows of any underground blogs/news sources for the whole oil spill effects subject, I'd love it if you shared.


I would like to know as well.

That said... any time a discussion comes around to the "biased" media, remember this: The "media" have no reason NOT to be biased. Define "media" for me. It's newspapers, TV stations, radio stations, internet blogs, the Drudge Report, El Rushbo... everything from 20/20 to re-runs of Dennis Miller's stand-up comedy routines on HBO. Now, a question for the class: What one thing do all these various incarnations of the "media" have in common?





It's okay, I'll wait.



Here's a hint: It has to do with dead Presidents...


They're ALL in it to make money. That's the bottom line. CNN, FNN, CNBC, Fox News... I don't give a rat's ass what particular brand of "media" you're talking about - if they can't make any money, they'll go the way of Air America. ALL media will bend over when it comes to making money. Why are the news anchors pissed off when the government bars access to a particular story? Because if they can "scoop" their competition, then maybe they can get a slightly larger market share on the next broadcast. Is there a truly independent news media out there? I highly doubt it. News agencies critical to the White House find their access to places like Iraq and Afghanistan extremely limited. Think Fox News will ever run a story lambasting Rupert Murdoch? Or CNN run a story calling Ted Turner a jackhole? Lemme ask you this: Do YOU shit where you eat?

All news media bow down to the almighty dollar. Whoever can make the most money in advertising revenue is in charge. They'll tell whatever story gets them the most viewers or listeners, because then they can charge more for their column inches (commercial seconds, or whatever unit of measure they worship). Their "bias" is set in place by their Board of Directors, who are guessing what direction they should take to earn more revenue. If they guess right, they win. If not, they get voted out at the next stockholders' meeting.

All of which brings me back to this question: In a largely capitalistic society (which America purports to be), do you really WANT the "media" to be unbiased? Because if you do, I gotta say that they'll probably under-perform, revenue-wise. And if they can't make any money at it, who pays for the "unbiased" news? Taxpayers, that's who. And if the taxpayers have to foot the bill, it means politicians will be in charge of setting the "bias" of your "unbiased" media. Is that what you really want?

As long as you go into the game realizing that ALL media is biased, then as least you can shop around and get opposing views of those stories that interest you. The trick lies in choosing media outlets whose bias offsets each other. The "truth" will be somewhere in the middle.

DamonX
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:16:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 795
Kyle wrote:
Jebru wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
What's even scarier to me, is that someone like you, who seems to so clearly be filled with hate, is allowed to carry a gun, and represent your country's military. All you are doing here is adding to my already strong belief that the US military is filled with a bunch of testosterone crazed young men, brainwashed to be so scared of what ever it is they are fighting that they shoot first, and think later, if they think at all.



Seriously? You're going to say something like that to us on this holiday? Really?


How does the holiday change anything? You'll notice I said it was my belief, or perception, if you will, not a fact. It being your national holiday does not temporarily or permanently remove all the reports I've read about the US military, it's illegal interrogations of both innocent and guilty prisoners, or the country that advocates this behaviour far too vocally for my liking.


Jebru, why don't you tone it down, you don't have insult people here to make a point.

If you don't like Americans keep it to yourself. This isn't the forum for it. If you want to discuss things rationally then be my guest. Everyone has opinions and beliefs and that includes bigots just as well as saints.


Oh yes. Jebru's a real fire starter. confused5

His comments had to do with the military. I don't think I've ever seen him say that "he doesn't like Americans." Now, I know he posted that incredibly "offensive" beer commercial confused1 that was so obviously a horrible dig at people that are against the dispelling of stereotypes, but lets not go off the deep end shall we? He didn't insult anybody. He merely responded to Chef's ridiculous accusation that he be unable to post any comments against the actions of the military on the hallowed occasion of that oh so venerated holliday. News flash: objecting to the military actions of a nation, does not make that person
anti-American.

Although this isn't a discussion that I am currently involved in, it seems to be one that many people feel strongly about. But let's keep the nationalistic defensiveness to a minimum, otherwise we'll be forced to go back to talking about dick size and pubic hair all the time. icon_smile
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:23:24 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
DamonX wrote:
News flash: objecting to the military actions of a nation, does not make that person
un-American.


Being Canadian does, though.icon_smile

Thanks for backing the anti-freakout movement I started, Damon. If we all play nicely together, the sandbox stays open!

(Hey, where's that thread on the pros and cons of Southeast Asian Entertainers? cussing )


Newdie, good points. Follow the money- even in the media.
Playmale
Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:13:27 PM

Rank: Smiley Guru

Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 551
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
By the way, if anyone knows of any underground blogs/news sources for the whole oil spill effects subject, I'd love it if you shared.


Here is a cool blog, it's left leaning, but we need to realize that the whole left right debate in the US is there to keep us bickering and preventing us from holding our government to the standards of our Constitution.
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