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Death Penalty. For or Against. Options · View
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:33:40 AM

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Location: Alabama, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:
I'm in favor of the existence of the death penalty, but not as it's administered now. First, it should only be considered if there's absolutely no chance that the guilty person has been wrongfully convicted. It should take overwhelming physical evidence, as well as a voluntary confession and psychological testing of the perpetrator before death is on the table. There should be absolutely no chance that the wrong party is put to death. Once that fact has been established, the convicted person should be put to death as humanely, and as quickly, as society can manage. Not for punishment, nor for revenge, but simply because our society has a duty to protect it's individual members from predators. We wouldn't think twice about putting down a rabid dog, or a cougar that's developed a taste for human flesh. Why would we give greater protection to an animal with true cognitive abilities, who knows what he's doing is wrong, but still does it because he simply wants to?

I've had dealings with several convicted killers, and they all share similar traits: they have little or no remorse for their victims, they killed for either monetary gain or for sheer sport, and they claimed they would not hesitate to kill again, for those same reasons.

Capital punishment has very little deterrence value, except where it counts. There has never been a murderer or rapist who went on to commit more heinous acts after being subjected to it.


I'm going with this.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:39:16 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I'm going with this.


put them in jail for life, no possibiltiy of parole, it has the same effect. :)
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:45:42 AM

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sprite wrote:


put them in jail for life, no possibiltiy of parole, it has the same effect. :)


I think that's worse actually. I'd rather sit there for a few years then get put out of my misery. One of the reasons I'm against the death penalty amongst other reasons like the cost of it. But seriously, give me death over living with a bunch of animals the rest of my life.



lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:50:44 AM

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sprite wrote:


put them in jail for life, no possibiltiy of parole, it has the same effect. :)


I'm not evolved enough for that. If someone hurts or kills my child, I want them to die. My brain and soul isn't advanced enough to not want retribution.

The cost isn't an issue for me. Cost of putting a murderer down pales in comparison to housing and feeding him for a lifetime.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:58:40 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:



The cost isn't an issue for me. Cost of putting a murderer down pales in comparison to housing and feeding him for a lifetime.


I don't have the energy to go look up all the info or sources but there is a ton of info out there about the cost of life imprisonment vs the death penalty. It's pretty jaw dropping stuff.

I'm with you that of course, if I saw someone hurt a hair on someone's head I hold dear it's immediately on. He's dying or I'm dying... But it's by my hands. I don't think I'd have the same closure if it was done humanly by the state... Fuck that. You think that girl that was raped or killed or that guy that was beaten to death didn't suffer? You think life in prison isn't an unbearably miserable existence? I'd prefer that guy to be killed by me, if not, go rot and suffer for the rest of your life with a bunch rabid diseased dogs of human brings.



LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:00:19 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


The cost isn't an issue for me. Cost of putting a murderer down pales in comparison to housing and feeding him for a lifetime.


Not necessarily.

I'm sure I'd feel the same if it was my child or loved one, by the way. But as another poster observed, there's sometimes a difference between what we feel in our vengeful hearts and what's best for society.
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:01:53 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I'm not evolved enough for that. If someone hurts or kills my child, I want them to die. My brain and soul isn't advanced enough to not want retribution.

The cost isn't an issue for me. Cost of putting a murderer down pales in comparison to housing and feeding him for a lifetime.


actually, you have it backwards - the cost of putting someone on death row is astronomical compared to life imprisonment and that, my friend, is well documented.
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:04:19 AM

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Magical_felix wrote:


I don't have the energy to go look up all the info or sources but there is a ton of info out there about the cost of life imprisonment vs the death penalty. It's pretty jaw dropping stuff.

I'm with you that of course, if I saw someone hurt a hair on someone's head I hold dear it's immediately on. He's dying or I'm dying... But it's by my hands. I don't think I'd have the same closure if it was done humanly by the state... Fuck that. You think that girl that was raped or killed or that guy that was beaten to death didn't suffer? You think life in prison isn't an unbearably miserable existence? I'd prefer that guy to be killed by me, if not, go rot and suffer for the rest of your life with a bunch rabid diseased dogs of human brings.


I don't have the energy either. But if it costs more to put a 100% surely guilty monster down as it does to clothe, feed, and house him for 20,30,60+ years... then we're spending too much. Strap in down, give him the same thing the give a person in the hospital that is about to die to kill the pain..... inject whatever needed to stop all life. What's that cost? Couple hundred bucks?

I hear what you're saying and I'd rather carry out the penalty myself. But if not me, I'm fine with a man in a black hood doing it too.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:09:10 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I don't have the energy either. But if it costs more to put a 100% surely guilty monster down as it does to clothe, feed, and house him for 20,30,60+ years... then we're spending too much. Strap in down, give him the same thing the give a person in the hospital that is about to die to kill the pain..... inject whatever needed to stop all life. What's that cost? Couple hundred bucks?

I hear what you're saying and I'd rather carry out the penalty myself. But if not me, I'm fine with a man in a black hood doing it too.


That's always the age old argument when debating the death penalty. Yeah, I hear you that it should only cost a couple hundred... Fuck, I could kill a guy with a plastic bag if I want to, those are free. It's not so much the method of killing them that is expensive. It's the circus surrounding it all. Everything leading up to it.



Buz
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:22:35 AM

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I'm with you that murderers deserve the death penalty. The only problem is these fucking corrupt politician district attorneys that don't give a shit about real justice, just an easy conviction of whatever person is convenient. There are way too many people convicted of crimes that they did not commit.

If there were a 100% guarantee that the right person was convicted then society would have every right to end the life of the guilty murderer. In fact then the appropriate means of execution should be tailored to the way they killed their victim. If they burned the victim to death then the murderer should be burned to death, etc. That would be true justice.

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lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:24:55 AM

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Magical_felix wrote:


That's always the age old argument when debating the death penalty. Yeah, I hear you that it should only cost a couple hundred... Fuck, I could kill a guy with a plastic bag if I want to, those are free. It's not so much the method of killing them that is expensive. It's the circus surrounding it all. Everything leading up to it.


From the couple of websites I looked at, most say that housing inmates on Death Row costs about $90k more per year. The fix is simple. Let's restrict death penalty cases to a small section of people. Whatever that section may be. Death may ONLY be use when there is DNA and other irrefutable (sp.) proof of guilt. Once convicted with 100% certainty, they go down.

I'm not saying we should fry every criminal. But the true monsters out there, I don't have a problem with legally carried out death sentence. Strangely, I'm 100% against in-prison retribution of inmates exacting revenge of other "worse" offending inmates.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
mercianknight
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:29:02 AM

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Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
FOR

It's all been said already. For a select number/type of crimes, once we know beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty, and supported by all the evidence gathering technology of the day, then execute them. Cheaper.

Remember, aside from the horrors of the actual crime, the offender then has the pleasure of putting the victims surviving relatives/friends through the horrors of what they did via the open court process where we get to hear how the poor little lamb had a hard life and only turned to raping and murder because his Dad denied him a Playstation console as a kid!!
cussing

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Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:33:31 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


From the couple of websites I looked at, most say that housing inmates on Death Row costs about $90k more per year. The fix is simple. Let's restrict death penalty cases to a small section of people. Whatever that section may be. Death may ONLY be use when there is DNA and other irrefutable (sp.) proof of guilt. Once convicted with 100% certainty, they go down.

I'm not saying we should fry every criminal. But the true monsters out there, I don't have a problem with legally carried out death sentence. Strangely, I'm 100% against in-prison retribution of inmates exacting revenge of other "worse" offending inmates.


Yeah, the cost to house them is one of those things that adds to the ridiculousness of it all. That's part of what I meant by everything leading up to the penalty being what costs not the actual method. It all seems fucked up. I mean they even put death row inmates on suicide watch.. It's insanity right? I don't really know WHY it costs more. Separate facility I guess, psychologists and all of that shit. Not sure why, but the system needs repair.

It's not that strange you feel that way. I would imagine in prison retributions are more about satisfying their own blood lust rather than the desire for justice.



Selynar
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 1:00:51 PM

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Posts: 26
eviotis wrote:
4, simple as that. No excuses. Everyone can grow to be sorry, but sorry. You kill life, then, toddles. Don't care if you found god, or learned the error of your ways. The one you killed, is dead, and you did not have any thought for that person or his/her family. F you, I'll even pull the switch, inject, or fire.


One thing I got taught when I was young. "Being sorry doesn't help. You stab someone, arm, leg, wherever. Then feel bad, and apologize.... guess what? They're still bleeding."
muleskiner
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:14:22 PM

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Location: San Francisco Bay Area, United States
Yes! I think it saves someone's life to know that they will die if they take someones life!
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:04:16 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


Yeah, the cost to house them is one of those things that adds to the ridiculousness of it all. That's part of what I meant by everything leading up to the penalty being what costs not the actual method. It all seems fucked up. I mean they even put death row inmates on suicide watch.. It's insanity right? I don't really know WHY it costs more. Separate facility I guess, psychologists and all of that shit. Not sure why, but the system needs repair.

It's not that strange you feel that way. I would imagine in prison retributions are more about satisfying their own blood lust rather than the desire for justice.


Death Row inmates are housed separately, in solitary confinement. They have probably twice the number of corrections officers per unit, for probably less than half the number of inmates. The inmates often are on suicide watch, which means around-the-clock medical supervision. The maximum security housing units cost more to build and maintain than other prisons. The largest costs are legal fees. Appeals are filed and heard, more appeals filed and heard, more appeals are filed and heard... the longer time drags on, the appeals get more and more far-fetched, driving up costs for expert witnesses and forensic scientists to go over everything that's already been gone over a multitude of times before. It's probably not uncommon for a single appeal to cost well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The deal-breaker for me is that we taxpayers foot the bill for the attorneys and experts who act on the inmate's behalf, and we also pay for the attorneys and experts who act on our own behalf keeping the murderer on Death Row.

Isn't it insane that we have to pay for both sides of the same fight?

MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:25:40 PM

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sprite wrote:


actually, you have it backwards - the cost of putting someone on death row is astronomical compared to life imprisonment and that, my friend, is well documented.


Not if it were done my way. A couple years in prison, a single appeal... three hundred thousand, tops.

I've told the following story before, most probably haven't heard it. Every bit of it is true.

Margie was a good friend of mine. She was 18, and liked to party. A lot. She also liked sex. A lot. I never had sex with her - she was more like a kid sister to me. Hell, I use to party with her whole family. One night she was out at a Florida bar when a random guy there started buying her drinks. She got pretty wasted; pretty easy to do when you're a girl that weighs ninety pounds soaking wet. When the bar closed, they went out to his van and started making out. She decided she wanted to stop. He decided not to. Margie had a mild form of epilepsy - during the struggle, she started having a seizure. He didn't notice her condition until after he had finished off inside of her. Afraid he had killed her during the struggle, he carried her over to the lake and tossed her in. The autopsy showed that she wasn't strangled like he thought - instead, she drowned. Her physician testified that there was a good chance that she was aware the whole time - just unable to defend herself or do anything about what was happening to her.

Her killer was arrested, but due to the state of our legal system he couldn't be charged with her murder. Instead, he was convicted of manslaughter. Causing the "accidental" death of another. He was sentenced to twenty-two years in prison. He was released in sixteen. Margie's dad died while this scumbag was still in prison. His release was kept secret because Margie's whole family had promised to kill him the day he was set free. Her brother never could find out where he was released from, what his new name was, or where he went. Neither could I, and so help me I tried. This case touched me personally in a way that no other case had, because of the fact that Margie was a friend of mine. It convinced me that our system of justice is in dire need of repair.

I wouldn't get rid of the Death Penalty. I'd just apply it more swiftly, and with more surgical precision. Scumbags like the piece of shit that killed my friend don't deserve to live.

ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:53:38 PM

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Against.

it is a barbaric practice that is now only practiced in a handful of countries. The US and Japan are the only remaining countries that are not dictatorships that still practice the death penalty.

The US practice is particularly random. Although the appeals process takes years it is exceptionally rare for any appeals court to actually allow an appeal on the merits. There is this idiotic notion that a jury verdict is sacrosanct no matter how flawed the trial was.

Evidence of prosecutorial abuse is commonplace. A system where state attorney generals and police chiefs are elected is certain to be rife with opportunistic and unscrupulous pols.

And then we get to George W. Bush. My theory is that he was a psychopath and executing people gave him a hard on. Tucker Carlson found his response to one death row appeal, making fun of the woman, "don't kill me", completely nauseating. I can't imagine what other type of person would seek a job as Governor of Texas given that listening to a few hundred people being killed is part of the job description.

If you don't find the sight of a GOP primary debate audience cheering when a contender boasts about the number of executions he has performed nauseating then you are a sick person who needs psychiatric help.

Of course people prefer to think that the courts are infallible and try to convince themselves that no mistake is ever made but the evidence is against them. Public defenders in the main death penalty states frequently get only a few hours to prepare death penalty cases.

And then a final point that has been made to me by several members of the bar is that if they take on a defense in a death penalty case and fail, they are going to end up responsible for their client's death.

It is a sick system and one that no civilized country tolerates any more.

ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 7:11:35 PM

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Selynar wrote:
I bring this up because of Luka Rocco Magnotta, just apprehended in Germany. He was living in Canada where he murdered a student, cut him into pieces, and mailed him to parliament.


In that particular case it would be impossible for Germany to extradite to any country if the death penalty was an option.

It seems fairly likely that Magnotta is clinically insane.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 6:43:05 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,210
Location: Cakeland, United States
Buz wrote:
I'm with you that murderers deserve the death penalty. The only problem is these fucking corrupt politician district attorneys that don't give a shit about real justice, just an easy conviction of whatever person is convenient. There are way too many people convicted of crimes that they did not commit.


This is a major flaw with the American system of just us. The prosecuting attorneys are elected to their positions of power and influence, many of the judges are, too.

They all have careers/livelihoods they wish to perpetuate and they get scored by the electorate on how many perpetrators they can lock up or even better (see George W. Bush) kill -or- laugh at the idea of pardoning.

The prosecutors all want to be judges or State Attorney's General or whatever is the next high paying J.O.B. on their career path and the judges like making bank too.

Very few of them motherfuckers wish to use DNA testing to either eliminate or determine the true fate of the accused. 'Too costly' is the most common excuse from their mouths. Too costly to their budgets, convict the person and send that cost on to another department.

Incidentally - as someone who has spent a little bit of time actually inside a state prison system, I'd like to know why it costs so fucking much to 'clothe/feed/house' an inmate. LafayetteMister and the rest of you seem to think the inmates are sporting something other than mere rags, sleeping on something other than a rock hard concrete or cast iron frame in privacy, and eating three hot meals on a par with fast food from McDonalds.

You fuckers should all ask to take an extensive tour of your local state penitentiaries, just so you can get a real glimpse of how cushy life is - on the inside, and quit believing most of what you watch on cable TV when it comes to life inside a prison.

There is no fucking way on this planet it could possibly cost more than $5.00 for every 24 hour cycle of time, to imprison a human being, from what I've experienced. And that's probably $4.00 more per hour than what the prisoner actually experiences.

America is ruled by capitalistic greed and it stretches from Wall Street, through Washington DC and trickles down to those at the very bottom who have no freedoms.

Fuck the death penalty and any of you who are for it, you're not using your brain, you're allowing your own emotions and greed to lower you to the levels you claim to despise. evil5

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 6:59:35 AM

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Posts: 5,176
Location: Atlanta, United States
I agree very much with most of what you said WMM, except the capitalistic greed stuff. I think it's the governmental socialistic greed & power. (But I am sure you already know my opinion. ha)

The US penal system has way too many people incarcerated for silly unimportant crimes. The war on drugs is a farce in order to perpetuate massive government control over our lives. It is the biggest reason we have way too many people in prison.

It is time to end this fraud called "The War on Drugs." That would not only put an end to incarcerating NON-criminals but free up a significant portion of our government's wasteful spending.

Most drugs should be decriminalized, especially marijuana and other natural herbs.

The American Revolutionary founding fathers all grew their own hemp, grew their own tobacco, distilled their own liquor, and brewed their own beer. It is time to take our rights back and redeem our liberties!

And abolish the political system of electing district attorneys! Because of this system there are a lot more innocent people than you will ever know sitting on death row waiting for lethal injection.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
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naughtynurse
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:19:05 AM

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friends of mine work as nurses at several prisons here in Fl. They are ALWAYS hiring nurses.

My cousin's 1 yr old daughter was killed by her fiancee. He was released in 1 yr(pleaded down to a 10 yr sentance, lame duck judge released him after 1)

Another cousin was at a competition out of town. He stopped at a local bar & had a beer. A local couple drugged him, then kidnapped him. They caved in his head with a shovel and buried him.( actually broke the shovel beating him to death, they had to get another shovel to bury him. the mother washed the blood off the 2nd shovel & returned it to walmart) They then took his credit cards and vehicle & headed out of state spending all the way to El Paso. All involved plead out. one is serving a 53 yr sentance, another 20 yrs and the mother got 1 yr.

I have no faith in justice. .



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WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:25:26 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,210
Location: Cakeland, United States
naughtynurse wrote:
friends of mine work as nurses at several prisons here in Fl. They are ALWAYS hiring nurses.

My cousin's 1 yr old daughter was killed by her fiancee. He was released in 1 yr(pleaded down to a 10 yr sentance, lame duck judge released him after 1)

I have no faith in justice. .


There are a shitload of animals in every prison in the United States who killed someone (or a lot of people) and they are not 'on' death row. They are in the GP/general population. They rub elbows with all manner of people who would never even think of harming another person.

All sorts of incarcerated fucktards are mixing with truly violent fucktards ( and if you are incarcerated, you are either a poor fucktard - or a better off fucktard - who didn't bribe the right people (with enough cash)).

Maximum/medium & minimum security prisons are an illusion created to keep the rest of us (outside with our imaginary freedoms) feeling secure from the animals inside the zoo. It is mix & match on the inside. You have killers in minimum security and naive dope peddlers/users/alcoholics stuck in all three levels of 'security'.

Prison is no Weekend @ Bernie's. It is not supposed to be. If you're truly guilty of any of various crimes against society, you are sentenced to go sit alone and put your life on hold out 'here'...and think about what a bad boy or girl you have become and how you can possibly rectify your situation.

Cuz once you are released...society doesn't give a fuck. You're carrying a scarlet felony letter on your chest for the rest of your life and resigned to menial work (if you can get that). But that's another Think Tank topic.

Capital Punishment - for or against - that's the subject here.

We can't be sure of guilt unless we utilize DNA testing for everyone in every trial - even those where there is recorded visual evidence that Mr. Killer motherfucker actually did execute someone or a whole bunch of someones.

All across the board...we have to apply the same 'fair treatment' to everyone who is on trial (for their life). As it has been for the last 200 years... It's pretty much an emotional issue for juries, prosecutors and judges. Certainly it is for all the victims who wish for retribution in the most vengeful and painful manner possible.

I understand that side of the argument - I used to be 150% for killing 'em all.

Until I learned that hundreds if not thousands have been convicted wrongly, and many of those innocent people lost decades of their once 'free and productive' lives behind bars with the real animals. Or, the states offed 'em.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
FelineFantasy
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:49:13 AM

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Joined: 1/14/2011
Posts: 387
I once saw a bumper sticker that put it all into perspective:
"We kill people who kill people to show people that killing is wrong."

See how foolish it sounds when you get to the nitty gritty? Definitely against.

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sprite
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:53:48 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,657
Location: My Tower, United States
FelineFantasy wrote:
I once saw a bumper sticker that put it all into perspective:
"We kill people who kill people to show people that killing is wrong."

See how foolish it sounds when you get to the nitty gritty? Definitely against.


Crime for Crime by Ani DiFranco says it best.

the big day has come
the bell is sounding
i run my hands through my hair one last time
outside the prison walls
the town is gathering
people are trading crime for crime

everyone needs to see the prisoner
they need to make it even easier
they see me as a symbol, and not a human being
that way they can kill me
say it's not murder, it's a metaphor
we are killing off our own failure
and starting clean

i think guilt and innocence
they are a matter of degree
what might be justice to you
might not be justice to me
i went too far, i'm sorry
i guess now i'm going home
so let any amongst you cast the first stone
now we've got all these complicated machines
so no one person ever has to have blood on their hands
we've got complex organizations
and if everyone just does their job
no one person has to understand

you might be the wrong color
you might be too poor
justice isn't something just anyone can afford
you might not pull the trigger
you might be out in the car
and you might get a lethal injection
'cause we take a metaphor that far
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:07:14 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 4,548
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


Death Row inmates are housed separately, in solitary confinement. They have probably twice the number of corrections officers per unit, for probably less than half the number of inmates. The inmates often are on suicide watch, which means around-the-clock medical supervision. The maximum security housing units cost more to build and maintain than other prisons. The largest costs are legal fees. Appeals are filed and heard, more appeals filed and heard, more appeals are filed and heard... the longer time drags on, the appeals get more and more far-fetched, driving up costs for expert witnesses and forensic scientists to go over everything that's already been gone over a multitude of times before. It's probably not uncommon for a single appeal to cost well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The deal-breaker for me is that we taxpayers foot the bill for the attorneys and experts who act on the inmate's behalf, and we also pay for the attorneys and experts who act on our own behalf keeping the murderer on Death Row.

Isn't it insane that we have to pay for both sides of the same fight?


It is totally insane nudie pants. But I suppose it IS necessary to keep them separate. I mean, a man that has nothing to lose is a very very dangerous man. It's all very frustrating. I don't think there is a right answer on capital punishment.

I saw someone say that the death penalty is good cause it will prevent people from killing people. If that is true then there wouldn't be a death row. People that are in a frame of mind where they are capable of ending a life arnt thinking about anything besides their blood lust.

Also, I sometimes think that someone that has been in prison for 60 years has a lot of regrets. To be honest they might have some cautionary tales for the youths. The nightmares, the guilt. The guilt that must build up in them as the look back at their life. The waste of life they have created. I'm sure their words might be more effective than the threat of death. Especially since people that kill are fearless while they are in that frame of mind.



elitfromnorth
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 6:29:49 PM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,588
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Selynar wrote:
Nope I don't think its superior, I asked if it was just. I work 50-70 hours a week, at two jobs to get by. That will change yes, but for now its what I have to do. My question was is it just that I have to work that hard, so that my hard earned money goes to supporting criminals?


That's the difference between you and the person in serving a life sentence. It can change, and in many cases it will. But the person serving his life sentence have no chance of change. That life will become a routine. The system will tell him what he can and can't do, when to eat, when to sleep, when to excercise. There are several people that have served long prison sentences that struggle to live a normal life. Not because they can't get a job and all that, but because they have been institutionalised. They're used to having someone tell them when to do this and that that the freedom of choice makes them insane.

And then you have those that are put in solitary. Imagine spending 23 hours of the day in a small cell, one hour of air every day, and the only human contact you have with the outside world is with the guards who probably doesn't like you because you've been doing bad stuff. I think that's a punishment much much worse than death. Death is quick and easy. Being locked in isn't.

I'm against the death penalty, simply because it's not a penalty, it's revenge. You don't punish someone by killing them, you satisfy your own need for revenge and bloodthirst. And no, death penalty doesn't work as a deterrant. If it did, countries with death penalty wouldn't have a such a high crime rate as they do. Look at the US. The country in the West with the highest guncrime rate. That also include murders. How can you say it works as a deterrent when every day there are people commiting crimes that's worthy of the death penalty?

And insane that you pay both sides of the fight? That all depends on what kind of system you want. If you want the system where every person has a right to a fair trial, then that also includes appeals and so forth. If you want the justice system to work in a way that you pay for your own lawyer, then you're gonna end up with poor people having no chance of winning a case while the rich are more likely to get off completely or at least they'll be capable of prolonging the execution or reducing the sentence. How is that "Just"? You can say that "Oh then they shouldn't have commited the crime", but what about all the innocent people that are put on trial? How is it just for them that they have done nothing wrong, yet they are put on trial and they can't have someone representing them because they don't have the money for it.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Kitanica
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:00:40 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 882
Location: The Sprawl, United States
110% for it, murderers and the like have shown they have no intentions in leading a civilized life. Er go they should not be given civil treatment. 12-0 guilty for heinous crimes shouldn't cost innocent taxpayers a lifetime, if a guy goes a murders 4-5 children on the news just put him down.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 07, 2012 9:45:33 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,793
Quote:
I'm against the death penalty, simply because it's not a penalty, it's revenge. You don't punish someone by killing them, you satisfy your own need for revenge and bloodthirst. And no, death penalty doesn't work as a deterrant. If it did, countries with death penalty wouldn't have a such a high crime rate as they do. Look at the US. The country in the West with the highest guncrime rate. That also include murders. How can you say it works as a deterrent when every day there are people commiting crimes that's worthy of the death penalty?


You have to wonder if it's just human nature though. Not the killing(crime) necessarily but continuing to commit crimes that can get you a sentence of death. It doesn't scare them because it's not going to happen to them. Or they won't get caught For it to happen to them. Same on a smaller scale, why a girl doesn't use birth control even though she's been told about it and has an opportunity to obtain it. It'll never happen to me syndrome.
midnightraider61
Posted: Thursday, June 07, 2012 10:20:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 12/28/2011
Posts: 95
Location: Lubbock, United States
subvirgingirl wrote:
There is a film put out by National Geographic that I watched in my criminal justice class titled "Death Row Texas". It follows 3 death row inmates in Texas as their executions draw near. It is not at all what I expected, in fact, had I not been in class, I would have cried. I think some of you would find it interesting. I suggest it :)


I live in Texas. I've never sat on a jury for a capital crime and I wouldn't dream of doing it. There is always the possibility that I might get so inflamed that I would leap out of the jury box and seize the defendant with my bare hands and then try to kill him myself, which is not exactly how it's supposed to work. And if I sentenced a person to death and that person was later exonerated, I would find myself guilty of murder during an aggravated kidnapping and murder for hire (since they pay jurors a little bit). That's ALSO not the way it's supposed to happen.

That said, there are some people who are below the level of sociopath, too dangerous to be allowed to live. A pair of murderers in Connecticut in a highly publicized case, for example. Or a Wisconsin serial killer whom the cops allowed to get away, taking his latest victim with him. Sometime I want to write a story called "Accessories Before The Fact," where police officers actually face a capital-murder charge. I also want to write a story about a District Attorney who, upon learning the executed convict he prosecuted was the victim of a home invasion and was found guilty because she couldn't prove herself innocent. The DA goes on a murder spree and only a bullet can stop him (he and his boss shoot each other). There are also some crimes which appear more horrific than others, triggering the vengeance instinct. Just reading about them makes some people want to take the law into their own hands.

I think people would rest easier about the death penalty if they knew the killers were destined for hellfire and eternal torment. But we don't know if Hell really exists, any more than we know Heaven exists. Nor do we know if there will be a Judgment Day in the future. Or who will be the judge. We go by our beliefs.

Right now, I support the death penalty for the reason of the sociopaths who are too dangerous to be allowed to live. I could certainly change my mind and probably will, but I may change it back.
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