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Can Romney/Ryan get elected? Options · View
Dirty_D
Posted: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 5:19:17 PM

Rank: Head Nurse

Joined: 4/15/2011
Posts: 7,187
Location: Soaking up the sun, United States
Milik_The_Red wrote:
The republican party has completely forgotten the message that brought them to prominence in the 80's, that of fiscal responsibility and smaller government. They did not, however, shed themselves of the baggage of the religious right and the bigoted narrow minded agenda of their party. Now, they stand at a very important crossroad and I actually hope they can realize the danger they are in. Failing to do so will mean that they decline into being a niche party with little appeal to the mainstream of American voters. This may seem a good thing to some, but left with no serious challengers, the democratic party will have no reason to stay in the centrist mode Bill Clinton and Obama have followed and will almost certainly begin moving to the far left.

One party rule has never been good for any country and unless the republicans can somehow show the wisdom to fundamentally change their platform, one party rule is exactly where we are headed.


This!

WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 8:26:04 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States
Milik_The_Red wrote:
The republican party has completely forgotten the message that brought them to prominence in the 80's, that of fiscal responsibility and smaller government. They did not, however, shed themselves of the baggage of the religious right and the bigoted narrow minded agenda of their party. Now, they stand at a very important crossroad and I actually hope they can realize the danger they are in. Failing to do so will mean that they decline into being a niche party with little appeal to the mainstream of American voters. This may seem a good thing to some, but left with no serious challengers, the democratic party will have no reason to stay in the centrist mode Bill Clinton and Obama have followed and will almost certainly begin moving to the far left.

One party rule has never been good for any country and unless the republicans can somehow show the wisdom to fundamentally change their platform, one party rule is exactly where we are headed.


King Maker Karl Rove needs to now follow (literally - I hope) Lee Atwater's lead, and just fade away - quickly. He is the bane of the Republican Party of the last 15 years.
His recent 4 year fund-raising & money spending plan to retake control of America via flushing million$ into this election failed - monumentally.





If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 8:34:13 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:
I started out this election circus thinking the Republicans were in trouble, for reasons that are sort of obvious. Then, because of the economy- namely the fact that no president since Roosevelt has ever been re-elected in such bad conditions- and because of widespread vehement opposition to Obama on a personal level, I began to think this was the proverbial “unlosable election” for Republicans. The polling data suggested Obama would win, but Republicans had all these theories for why the polls were wrong, and that at the literal end of the day, a big silent majority would make their voice heard and show Obama the door.

Well, turns out that didn’t happen. In fact, the race wasn’t as close as it could’ve been, what with Obama winning every single contestable state (except for North Carolina).

I think the story of this election will be the rise of Latino voting power. It’s been long regarded as a sleeping giant, and it appears to have finally awakened even as it grows larger. To me, this is the tipping point for the Republican Party, at least as far as national elections go. They’ve done nothing to attract Latino voters, just as they’ve never done anything to attract voters of any color. They’ve been just as exclusionary toward women and the working class. They’ve only done things to repel all of those groups, and they’ve done them repeatedly.
Take this election, for instance.

What did they do to attract women? They called a contraception coverage rights advocate a slut, and opposed the very concept of insurance coverage for contraceptives. They advocated abortion bans.

What did they do to attract minorities? They suggested that millions of residents practice self-deportation, and generally stood opposed to any sort of comprehensive reform that didn’t result in mass exodus of undocumented residents.

What did they do to attract the working class? They accused them of being takers and not worth courting.

Republicans and conservatives can argue until they’re blue in the face that they aren’t racist, or misogynist, or nativist, or plutocrats, or any of those things. And it’s certainly not true of all, or even most, Republicans. But the policies they seek, and the tone with which they advocate them, should leave no question in their minds as to why they lost a seemingly un-losable election. The days of depending on whitey to carry a national election are over. Figure out how to be more inclusive, how to look at a rapidly changing nation in a different light, or be relegated to crackpot regionalism. Their tea party extremism just makes them look like maniacs. Meanwhile, their demographic problems are only getting worse.


Once again, Xuani - you hit this nail squarely on the head.

Within hours of President Obama winning re-election, two faces of the Republican Party emerged. One impressed me enormously. The other deeply troubled me. Liberals, meanwhile, rejoiced at having averted what they saw as a national calamity.

The time, though, is not for gloating. It is for supporting the Republicans who can rein in their party’s far right and help us all. <continued>


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:47:00 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
The Commander in Chief of the greatest Country on Earth.......dontknow





Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 3:17:53 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,363
Location: United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


King Maker Karl Rove needs to now follow (literally - I hope) Lee Atwater's lead, and just fade away - quickly. He is the bane of the Republican Party of the last 15 years.
His recent 4 year fund-raising & money spending plan to retake control of America via flushing million$ into this election failed - monumentally.





Lee Atwater didn't really fade away so much as die of brain cancer. His protégées are still fucking things up so he is very much alive and active in Republican politics.
Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 3:19:53 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,363
Location: United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


Once again, Xuani - you hit this nail squarely on the head.

Within hours of President Obama winning re-election, two faces of the Republican Party emerged. One impressed me enormously. The other deeply troubled me. Liberals, meanwhile, rejoiced at having averted what they saw as a national calamity.

The time, though, is not for gloating. It is for supporting the Republicans who can rein in their party’s far right and help us all. <continued>


Like John Stewart pointed out on his show Tuesday, the Republicans control the house, the Democrats control the Senate, and Obama was reelected. Nothing has changed.

You're right, if things are going to change we have to work on changing the parties.
elitfromnorth
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 8:17:16 PM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,620
Location: Burrowed, Norway


"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:51:07 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 1/2/2011
Posts: 581
Location: Sarasota County, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


King Maker Karl Rove needs to now follow (literally - I hope) Lee Atwater's lead, and just fade away - quickly. He is the bane of the Republican Party of the last 15 years.
His recent 4 year fund-raising & money spending plan to retake control of America via flushing million$ into this election failed - monumentally.




There's a quote mis-attributed to Clarence Darrow, Mark Twain and Winston Churchill, and is a favorite of mine, "I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with a great deal of satisfaction." I've got to say, I'll be smiling when I read Karl's!
groucho
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:35:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/29/2009
Posts: 233
Location: Nebraska, United States
332 to 206..........8 to 1.........51% to 48%.......3million.
these are the electoral count, battle ground states won, popular vote percentage and popular vote difference.
the final analysis is in and the answer is not just "no" but "hell no!"
if you don't believe me take a look at the percentages of the african-american, hispanic, asain-american and women votes.

g



"Women should be obscene and not heard."
Groucho Marx
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2012 2:10:28 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


Like John Stewart pointed out on his show Tuesday, the Republicans control the house, the Democrats control the Senate, and Obama was reelected. Nothing has changed.

You're right, if things are going to change we have to work on changing the parties.


No, the real point that we have to work on is Fox News. Rupert Murdoch is the number one reason that US politics have become so partisan. He isn't even an American, he is an Australian who has a token US citizenship.

Every day Fox News pumps out lies that poison the US political process. They spent thousands of hours on 'investigations' into whether Obama was born in Kenya and countless other completely spurious stories. Right now they are peddling an absolutely insane claim that Holder intentionally botched the Fast and Furious operation in order to justify gun control legislation that the administration never proposed.

It is pretty hard to have a sensible discussion about health care when Fox News is telling 30 million odd viewers that the nonexistent Obamacare 'death panels' are the first step towards creating a US Belsen.

Fox News got the election completely wrong. The polls were not skewed to undercount Republicans as they claimed. Rather the number of people claiming Republican affiliation declined as Tea Party Republicans identified as Independents. There was no widespread attempt at voter fraud, in fact the only two cases of voter fraud reported were by Republicans who now claim they were attempting to test the Fox News poll fraud theory. Nate Silver was not biased, he was doing math and getting the math right.

Fox News gets pretty much everything wrong. If people want to be informed the best way to start is to stop watching Fox News and the rest of the Republican hate machine.

sprite
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:35:31 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 14,538
Location: My Tower, United States
ByronLord wrote:


No, the real point that we have to work on is Fox News. Rupert Murdoch is the number one reason that US politics have become so partisan. He isn't even an American, he is an Australian who has a token US citizenship.

Every day Fox News pumps out lies that poison the US political process. They spent thousands of hours on 'investigations' into whether Obama was born in Kenya and countless other completely spurious stories. Right now they are peddling an absolutely insane claim that Holder intentionally botched the Fast and Furious operation in order to justify gun control legislation that the administration never proposed.

It is pretty hard to have a sensible discussion about health care when Fox News is telling 30 million odd viewers that the nonexistent Obamacare 'death panels' are the first step towards creating a US Belsen.

Fox News got the election completely wrong. The polls were not skewed to undercount Republicans as they claimed. Rather the number of people claiming Republican affiliation declined as Tea Party Republicans identified as Independents. There was no widespread attempt at voter fraud, in fact the only two cases of voter fraud reported were by Republicans who now claim they were attempting to test the Fox News poll fraud theory. Nate Silver was not biased, he was doing math and getting the math right.

Fox News gets pretty much everything wrong. If people want to be informed the best way to start is to stop watching Fox News and the rest of the Republican hate machine.


wait... FOX news is... biased and wrong...? OMG!

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
_mal_
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:57:02 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/27/2010
Posts: 191
Location: Somewhere, United States
ByronLord wrote:


No, the real point that we have to work on is Fox News. Rupert Murdoch is the number one reason that US politics have become so partisan. He isn't even an American, he is an Australian who has a token US citizenship.

Every day Fox News pumps out lies that poison the US political process. They spent thousands of hours on 'investigations' into whether Obama was born in Kenya and countless other completely spurious stories. Right now they are peddling an absolutely insane claim that Holder intentionally botched the Fast and Furious operation in order to justify gun control legislation that the administration never proposed.

It is pretty hard to have a sensible discussion about health care when Fox News is telling 30 million odd viewers that the nonexistent Obamacare 'death panels' are the first step towards creating a US Belsen.

Fox News got the election completely wrong. The polls were not skewed to undercount Republicans as they claimed. Rather the number of people claiming Republican affiliation declined as Tea Party Republicans identified as Independents. There was no widespread attempt at voter fraud, in fact the only two cases of voter fraud reported were by Republicans who now claim they were attempting to test the Fox News poll fraud theory. Nate Silver was not biased, he was doing math and getting the math right.

Fox News gets pretty much everything wrong. If people want to be informed the best way to start is to stop watching Fox News and the rest of the Republican hate machine.


Heh. I don't want to think I'm this cynical. But, to be brutally honest, I don't find much fault in this summation.

The only point I'd contend is regarding the voter fraud comment. I'd be hard-pressed to say that voter FRAUD (falsifying the identity of a voter) happens in a prolific and widespread way. Many states have decent systems on verifying information about the voter before they even get the polling place.

However, voter suppression happens all the time. It often happens in an obtuse and indirect way or in a limited scope: reducing the number of hours polling places are open, additional requirements that are above and beyond simply verifying information in an unobtrusive manner for the voter, introducing "patches" into electronic voting machines in direct violation of state and federal law in only a few machines. It flies below the radar most of the time.
Kitanica
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:39:56 AM

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Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
Lol it said in the news the republicans at the victory rally demanded they change the to channel fox when CNN declared Obama reelected haha
Guest
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:58:28 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
I am, of course, elated that Obama won.
But it ain't like hatred, bigotry, and fear, have gone away.
principessa
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:03:59 AM

Rank: Sophisticate

Joined: 8/23/2011
Posts: 4,306
Location: Canada
I thought we might let Maureen Dowd have a word about the election results.


Romney Is President
By MAUREEN DOWD

IT makes sense that Mitt Romney and his advisers are still gobsmacked by the fact that they’re not commandeering the West Wing.

(Though, as “The Daily Show” correspondent John Oliver jested, the White House might have been one of the smaller houses Romney ever lived in.)

Team Romney has every reason to be shellshocked. Its candidate, after all, resoundingly won the election of the country he was wooing.

Mitt Romney is the president of white male America.

Maybe the group can retreat to a man cave in a Whiter House, with mahogany paneling, brown leather Chesterfields, a moose head over the fireplace, an elevator for the presidential limo, and one of those men’s club signs on the phone that reads: “Telephone Tips: ‘Just Left,’ 25 cents; ‘On His Way,’ 50 cents; ‘Not here,’ $1; ‘Who?’ $5.”

In its delusional death spiral, the white male patriarchy was so hard core, so redolent of country clubs and Cadillacs, it made little effort not to alienate women. The election had the largest gender gap in the history of the Gallup poll, with Obama winning the vote of single women by 36 percentage points.

As W.’s former aide Karen Hughes put it in Politico on Friday, “If another Republican man says anything about rape other than it is a horrific, violent crime, I want to personally cut out his tongue.”

Some Republicans conceded they were “a ‘Mad Men’ party in a ‘Modern Family’ world” (although “Mad Men” seems too louche for a candidate who doesn’t drink or smoke and who apparently dated only one woman). They also acknowledged that Romney’s strategists ran a 20th-century campaign against David Plouffe’s 21st-century one.

But the truth is, Romney was an unpalatable candidate. And shocking as it may seem, his strategists weren’t blowing smoke when they said they were going to win; they were just clueless.

Until now, Republicans and Fox News have excelled at conjuring alternate realities. But this time, they made the mistake of believing their fake world actually existed. As Fox’s Megyn Kelly said to Karl Rove on election night, when he argued against calling Ohio for Obama: “Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better?”

Romney and Tea Party loonies dismissed half the country as chattel and moochers who did not belong in their “traditional” America. But the more they insulted the president with birther cracks, the more they tried to force chastity belts on women, and the more they made Hispanics, blacks and gays feel like the help, the more these groups burned to prove that, knitted together, they could give the dead-enders of white male domination the boot.

The election about the economy also sounded the death knell for the Republican culture wars.

Romney was still running in an illusory country where husbands told wives how to vote, and the wives who worked had better get home in time to cook dinner. But in the real country, many wives were urging husbands not to vote for a Brylcreemed boss out of a ’50s boardroom whose party was helping to revive a 50-year-old debate over contraception.

Just like the Bushes before him, Romney tried to portray himself as more American than his Democratic opponent. But America’s gallimaufry wasn’t knuckling under to the gentry this time.

If 2008 was about exalting the One, 2012 was about the disenchanted Democratic base deciding: “We are the Ones we’ve been waiting for.”

Last time, Obama lifted up the base with his message of hope and change; this time the base lifted up Obama, with the hope he will change. He has not led the Obama army to leverage power, so now the army is leading Obama.

When the first African-American president was elected, his supporters expected dramatic changes. But Obama feared that he was such a huge change for the country to digest, it was better if other things remained status quo. Michelle played Laura Petrie, and the president was dawdling on promises. Having Joe Biden blurt out his support for gay marriage forced Obama’s hand.

The president’s record-high rate of deporting illegal immigrants infuriated Latinos. Now, on issues from loosening immigration laws to taxing the rich to gay rights to climate change to legalizing pot, the country has leapt ahead, pulling the sometimes listless and ruminating president by the hand, urging him to hurry up.

More women voted than men. Five women were newly elected to the Senate, and the number of women in the House will increase by at least three. New Hampshire will be the first state to send an all-female delegation to Congress. Live Pink or Dye.

Meanwhile, as Bill Maher said, “all the Republican men who talked about lady parts during the campaign, they all lost.”

The voters anointed a lesbian senator, and three new gay congressmen will make a total of five in January. Plus, three states voted to legalize same-sex marriage. Chad Griffin, the president of the Human Rights Campaign, told The Washington Post’s Ned Martel that gays, whose donations helped offset the Republican “super PACs,” wanted to see an openly gay cabinet secretary and an openly gay ambassador to a G-20 nation.

Bill O’Reilly said Obama’s voters wanted “stuff.” He was right. They want Barry to stop bogarting the change.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:54:38 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


Lee Atwater didn't really fade away so much as die of brain cancer. His protégées are still fucking things up so he is very much alive and active in Republican politics.


heheh, I was trying to be nice. evil4

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:02:17 AM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 1/2/2011
Posts: 581
Location: Sarasota County, United States
I just found myself wondering if all the Gerrymandering, voter suppression and voter roll purges (thanks A.L.E.C.) across the country in Red States didn't backfire on the Republicans? They lost 8 of the 9 'battleground' states. I know for certain here in Florida, even with State Constitutional Amendments 5 + 6 that were passed in the last election to make redistricting 'Fair', that Gerrymandering happened here, and it was all over the news that our Governor Rick 'Medicare Fraud' Scott (Google his name and H.C.A.), ignored U.S. Department of Justice demands that he STOP the voter suppression tactics he engaged in, but the Conservative Hell of Florida STILL gave the election to President Obama by an even greater margin than 'W' beat Al Gore by. The repugs may have had a better chance if Scott wouldn't have mucked with it. Also, I don't know if it's making news everywhere, but after a decisive loss to Patrick Murphy, Allen West, one of the more extreme tea-baggers is throwing a tantrum and generally being a sore loser, making all kinds of accusations and demands. We need less Tea-Party people in Government, not more. This is a time for cooperation and compromise, not unwavering extremism.
ByronLord
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:03:14 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
TheGulfCoaster wrote:
I just found myself wondering if all the Gerrymandering, voter suppression and voter roll purges (thanks A.L.E.C.) across the country in Red States didn't backfire on the Republicans? They lost 8 of the 9 'battleground' states. I know for certain here in Florida, even with State Constitutional Amendments 5 + 6 that were passed in the last election to make redistricting 'Fair', that Gerrymandering happened here, and it was all over the news that our Governor Rick 'Medicare Fraud' Scott (Google his name and H.C.A.), ignored U.S. Department of Justice demands that he STOP the voter suppression tactics he engaged in, but the Conservative Hell of Florida STILL gave the election to President Obama by an even greater margin than 'W' beat Al Gore by. The repugs may have had a better chance if Scott wouldn't have mucked with it. Also, I don't know if it's making news everywhere, but after a decisive loss to Patrick Murphy, Allen West, one of the more extreme tea-baggers is throwing a tantrum and generally being a sore loser, making all kinds of accusations and demands. We need less Tea-Party people in Government, not more. This is a time for cooperation and compromise, not unwavering extremism.


I think the voter suppression crap actually helped the Democrats. Easiest way to get a vote in the bag is to warn the voter that if they don't vote now a Republican thug will try to stop them.

The voting booth is like a night club, the harder you make it to get in, the more people want to go there. Suppressing the vote increased Latino turnout by quite a bit. The same people will turn out to remove Scott and co from office next time round.

The people standing in line are going to be told repeatedly which party is responsible for it.

groucho
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:15:43 PM

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Location: Nebraska, United States
the gerrymandering has and will affect the make-up of the us house of representatives.

g



"Women should be obscene and not heard."
Groucho Marx
Jack_42
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:51:55 PM

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Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Isn't this issue now over (I have vague memories of hearing Obama won the election). I hope the next US President will really represent the land of the free and be a female, latin, disabled atheist.
TheGulfCoaster
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:27:48 AM

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Joined: 1/2/2011
Posts: 581
Location: Sarasota County, United States
ByronLord wrote:


I think the voter suppression crap actually helped the Democrats. Easiest way to get a vote in the bag is to warn the voter that if they don't vote now a Republican thug will try to stop them.

The voting booth is like a night club, the harder you make it to get in, the more people want to go there. Suppressing the vote increased Latino turnout by quite a bit. The same people will turn out to remove Scott and co from office next time round.

The people standing in line are going to be told repeatedly which party is responsible for it.


I agree 100%, that's why I wondered about the 'backfire' effect. The same states that had the most voter suppression and intimidation (especially the 'Red' 'battleground' states) were those that Romney had the biggest upsets in. And you're right about Scott, it's a travesty that we've got a suspected felon as governor and that he managed to buy the election in the first place. It's a damn shame Florida has no recall mechanism for the office of Governor. It will take a lot more than 8 years to straighten up his mess. Now, I just wish Allen 'teabagger in cheif' West would gracefully accept the defeat and concede the House election to Pat Murphy. I guess he's just a sore loser.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:15:25 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
Apparently not.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:01:38 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States
The super right wing GOP doesn't fucking get it.

-Romney on the "gifts" to Hispanic voters: "For any lower-income Hispanic family, Obamacare was massive, I mean for-the average income for a household in America is fifty thousand dollars a year, that's the median, fifty K per year. For the Hispanic household, my guess is it's lower than that, maybe it's forty thousand a year. For a home earning let's say thirty thousand a year, free health care, which is worth about ten thousand dollars a year, I mean is massive, it's huge. So this-he did two very popular things for the Hispanic community."

-The primary was "nuts." Romney: "We had 20 Republican debates, that was absolutely nuts, it opened us up to gaffes and to material that could be used against us in the general, and we were fighting these debates for a year, and the incumbent president just sat back and laughed." Romney said he wants his group of donors to stay together to pressure Republicans to abbreviate their primary process.

-Criticized networks that hosted debates. Romney's suggestion for the debates next time: "agree that we're gonna do, you know, I dont' know, eight debates, and we're gonna, we're gonna do one a month, and we're gonna pick stations that are reasonable, it's not all gonna be done by CNN and NBC, alright, I mean we're gonna try and guide this process so that it's designed to showcase the best of our people as opposed to showcasing liberals beating the heck out of us."



I hope all these nutbars keep thinking this way.

Unfortunately - Only Ron Paul gets it. After witnessing how he was sidelined, ridiculed and ignored (when the 1st two tactics failed to work) - by the GOP this most recent primary campaign season - Those fucktards can all secede if they want to. They are useless eaters in my humble opinion.

Ron Paul --

“If it’s not accepted that big government, fiat money, ignoring liberty, central economic planning, welfarism, and warfarism caused our crisis, we can expect a continuous and dangerous march toward corporatism and even fascism with even more loss of our liberties,” said Paul, an obstetrician-gynecologist by training.

The problem isn’t just government’s size, but its use of force, both in starting preemptive wars and as it coerces U.S. citizens with police power. To Paul, this is the fault of Americans who no longer prioritize liberty, and it will lead to the unraveling of orderly society unless people change.

“Restraining aggressive behavior is one thing, but legalizing a government monopoly for initiating aggression can only lead to exhausting liberty associated with chaos, anger and the breakdown of civil society,” Paul said. “We now have a standing army of armed bureaucrats in the TSA, CIA, FBI, Fish and Wildlife, FEMA, IRS, Corp of Engineers, etc., numbering over 100,000 civil society.”

More than coercive, to Paul the government is also corrupt: “All branches of our government today are controlled by individuals who use their power to undermine liberty and enhance the welfare/warfare state-and frequently their own wealth and power,” he said.


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
BenKnotty
Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:12:07 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 7/22/2012
Posts: 5
Location: United States
All I can say is...very interesting read.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:24:41 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
I guess not. Oh how I relish in hindsight sometimes. But getting back to this thread. I spoke to a neighbour about Mr. Romney considering his stance on people's rights, i.e. abortion, gay marriage, etc, and her response was "I don't have to worry about that." Another seemingly comprehensive individual noted that his most urgent consideration when voting for Romney was the issue of economics.

So for the next whodat? in the upcoming elections. Pay mind to peoples rights, seem like you actually have a clue about economics, and care about those worrying about their 401K. As for stature in the international community, well, just be sure to back up a stance on killing everything that's not American, but pro-Israel, and you're good. As the great confucious say, "keep it simple stupid." Just don't be simple.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:37:27 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,289
Location: Cakeland, United States


If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Guest
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:49:23 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
It's party time chumps.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:35:31 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
The GOP party seems kinda limp at the moment Chef. And the DEM party just has to excuse itself since it doesn't take most of it's time on vacation.

I think we need to find another "party" in order to get stimulated.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:55:57 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,753
Highwayman wrote:
The GOP party seems kinda limp at the moment Chef. And the DEM party just has to excuse itself since it doesn't take most of it's time on vacation.

I think we need to find another "party" in order to get stimulated.


Good lord yes we do. I'm sick of the two party mentality in this country. Why was it only Dems/Reps debating? Why not everyone that was going to be on the ballot in November?
Then again, I'm sick of the American people being afraid to "throw away" their vote for someone that's not one of them.
PhareDuFour
Posted: Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:06:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 10/23/2012
Posts: 57
Location: United Kingdom
HardNReady12 wrote:
Well I guess we can chalk this rant up to the fact that you are, not a voter and haven't read the Constitution. When our, that is my founders, wanted a very weak Federal gubmint, and strong state gubmint. Obummer, Barry Soetoro, BTW that is his name, he never changed it after mummy married Lolo Soetoro. So the federal imperal gubmint was not supposed to be the most important thing in my life, unfortunately that's not the case. Is he a Muslim? Can't say, when mummy got married to hubby #2, mummy moved Barry to Jakarta and enrolled him in a madrasah. We know that he has some very big gubmint beliefs, and has "ruled" to that end. He has run up our debt by close to $6T of new debt. So if you aren't sure of how I stand, Barry had better be gone and back to Chicago in Jan '13. If not we have little change of lasting 4 more years.



d'oh!
NOTE TO SELF: Do NOT fuck right-wing activists who pander to fascistic propaganda, because you will not only hate yourself when you wake up next to them in the morning, but you will mostly likely be shot with their assault rifle as soon as you start laughing your ass off over theiir ignorant bronze-age religious ideals.

I have read the U.S. Constitution (among other constitutions), and I am a U.S. voter. (Do not confuse location with citizenship). And since you hold your 1st Ammendment values so dear, why do you care whether or not the U.S. President is a "closet Muslim"? You are supposedly in favour of religious freedom - unless you're not. I assume you're not really in favour of religious freedom . You are only in favour of religious freedom when it comes to expressing your own religion, but you're opposed to it when it comes to other people expressing theirs, because their religion is "wrong", as it isn't yours, and only your religion is "right".


director Stephanie, if you should ever worry your personal freedom is being compromised, you might want to consider living in another country, such as Canada or New Zealand, Australia, the U.K., etc, should theocrats ever be elected to office and decide to declare marshal law and threaten your personal freedom. You can become like me, and apply for political assylum, because a theocracy isn't a democracy.

Si vos postulo me, sed non vis me, oportet me manere.
Sed si vis me, sed non vos postulo me, oportet me abire.
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