Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Should kids in the untied states have to say the pledge of alligence in school Options · View
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:27:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Kitanica wrote:
Well that's why we have seperation, to keep religious institutions from having the authority to go around killing people. That was the right call for the king to make in my opinion, sounds like he was protecting the minority British subjects from the majority of other British subjects. I don't know anything about that specific trial though so I'm only going by what you said. It seems like the king took some of their freedom away after they took away the freedom of that girl by killing her. I must have misread something because it seems like a prime example of protecting innocent people from religion unless you mean it as an example of the church being cleansed from a bad batch of apples.


That was one concern. But the reason they split from the Church of England in the first place was they thought the state had contaminated the church. Beginning with Constantine actually.

The New Testament has a whole slew of rather obvious edits. For example where is the rest of The Acts of the Apostles? It was being written after the fact so why end on a cliff hanger? It would be like having a history of Napoleon that ended on the eve of the battle of Waterloo.

Later edits were worse. One of the early popes got Mary Magdalene confused with another Mary and gave a homily about her being a prostitute. He had completely the wrong Mary but nobody could tell the pope he was wrong and the Catholic church stuck to that interpretation till 1961.

Don4poon
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:39:56 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 1/11/2013
Posts: 2
Location: SETX, United States
I fought for this country and held in my arms my friends that died for it!!!! If you don't like the way this country is then you are welcomed to get the HELL out!!!
But if you are here and not a United States citizen you have no right to criticize the way we do our things.
But yes I believe ever child regardless of what country they live in should learn to respect and support their country no matter how they feel about it.
That start with learning their national anthem.
petersr
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:49:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 50
Location: St. Petersburgh, United States
If you love this COUNTRY. That is a very small way of showing it.Just tell and show the kids what they have. So anwser is YES.
TxPrincess
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:55:45 PM

Rank: The Resident Princess

Joined: 10/6/2012
Posts: 295
Location: The Best Part, United States
I am gonna go with HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!! Those in Texas should say the State Pledge tooo and dare I say a prayer.

Give the kids a since of value for the Country, State, and God. They need to learn respect and that it means something to be a citizen and that it is a privilege not a right.

RobHarper
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 9:12:35 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 11/10/2011
Posts: 26
Location: United States
No, Americans have the freedom to refuse to pledge. But that freedom should be the reason that you do pledge! We take this freedom for granted. In what other country can the losing side of a civil war display their flag in public and not be executed? You should pledge, but because you want to. Take out the "under God" part though, that wasn't in there when the pledge was first written.
Buz
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:01:30 PM

Rank: The Linebacker

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,819
Location: Atlanta, United States
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898).

In Nazi Germany all citizens were required to swear a pledge of allegiance to Adolph Hitler, the Fuhrer. personally.

After the American War Between the States (1861-1855) the former soldiers of the Confederate States were required to swear an oath of allegiance to the federal government that just won the war, making it a much more powerful than it had been before the war.

The US Constitution does not require American school kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I would be opposed to such an amendment.

The US government seems more adept at taking away freedoms and civil liberties from its citizens rather than protecting freedoms and liberties of its citizens.

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
— Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence & 3rd US President)

The US Federal government DOES NOT fear its citizens!

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
— Thomas Jefferson

KatR
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:11:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/19/2013
Posts: 316
Location: United States
I think that is good but far less important than teaching them HOW TO THINK! How to read, analyze, and reach intelligent conclusions about things that affect their lives.
kylie_kained
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:31:36 AM

Rank: Detention Seeker

Joined: 8/17/2010
Posts: 994
Location: Over your Knee Screaming and Kicking!, United King
Even though I'm a Brit I would suggest not If the child is born in the USA but any outsiders that take up residence yes. It should be down to the parents to instill the pride of the Country and most would I should think.
















margali
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:38:27 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 10/27/2012
Posts: 20
Location: United States
Reciting words without an understanding of their meaning is a mindless activity. Children are capable of understanding far more than most give them credit for. When I was young, we knew what we were saying and it had meaning to us. There was a sense of pride in belonging to something bigger than ourselves and that we were a part of. I see nothing wrong with children reciting the pledge of allegiance. Just teach the meaning along with the words.
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 2:52:09 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 986
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I feel that there is no moral reason for instilling patriotic pride in anyone. The only reason is practical - that is control. I understand pride in something you have personally achieved but pride in the past acts of people and governments many of which are questionable to say the least has a lot of ethical questions attached to it. There is also the aspect that the kid didn't have any control over his birth so where is all the pride coming from? I, with very mixed antecedents would not have been born unless WWII happened - am I seriously expected to be pleased about that nice little piece of patriotic fervour by all concerned or should it really be indifference as it wasn't my fault?
TxPrincess
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:00:32 PM

Rank: The Resident Princess

Joined: 10/6/2012
Posts: 295
Location: The Best Part, United States
RobHarper wrote:
No, Americans have the freedom to refuse to pledge. But that freedom should be the reason that you do pledge! We take this freedom for granted. In what other country can the losing side of a civil war display their flag in public and not be executed? You should pledge, but because you want to. Take out the "under God" part though, that wasn't in there when the pledge was first written.


I agree we as adult have the freedom to refuse the pledge. Children on the other hand should know how to be loyal and respectful, before they are allowed to exercise there freedoms.

Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:39:03 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,382
Location: United States
Which states are untied?
Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:44:33 PM

Rank: Story Verifier

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,382
Location: United States
Why not a pledge to uphold the constitution? That seems more appropriate to me. Shouldn't children be taught to respect the document that guarantees our freedom, one of which is to not have to take oaths?
Kitanica
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:15:04 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
TxPrincess wrote:


I agree we as adult have the freedom to refuse the pledge. Children on the other hand should know how to be loyal and respectful, before they are allowed to exercise there freedoms.


So German children in ww2 were rightfully taught by the Nazis because they were being taught loyalty and respect to the führer?

That doesn't make any sense. Children are forced to learn what you or someone else consider a "right" view before their allowed to make up their own minds on what's the right or wrong view?
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:57:17 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,384
Don4poon wrote:
I fought for this country and held in my arms my friends that died for it!!!! If you don't like the way this country is then you are welcomed to get the HELL out!!!
But if you are here and not a United States citizen you have no right to criticize the way we do our things.
But yes I believe ever child regardless of what country they live in should learn to respect and support their country no matter how they feel about it.
That start with learning their national anthem.


The way we do things in this country is not requiring students to say the Pledge of Allegiance. West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

If you don't like it, get the HELL out.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:59:08 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,384
TxPrincess wrote:
I am gonna go with HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!! Those in Texas should say the State Pledge tooo and dare I say a prayer.

Give the kids a since of value for the Country, State, and God. They need to learn respect and that it means something to be a citizen and that it is a privilege not a right.


I agree. The kids should have to say a prayer to Allah every morning, and learn a sense of value for Allah. Oh, wait, you meant your god, didn't you? Which god should you force students of every religion to pray to, exactly? There's several thousand, at least.
clum
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:08:56 AM

Rank: Clumeleon

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 4,577
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
TxPrincess wrote:
I agree we as adult have the freedom to refuse the pledge. Children on the other hand should know how to be loyal and respectful, before they are allowed to exercise there freedoms.


Wow.

Every day is a school day.
ByronLord
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:08:29 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
MatthewVett wrote:


I agree. The kids should have to say a prayer to Allah every morning, and learn a sense of value for Allah. Oh, wait, you meant your god, didn't you? Which god should you force students of every religion to pray to, exactly? There's several thousand, at least.


Don't forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!

Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:29:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/31/2013
Posts: 2,196
Location: Curled up in front of a beautiful fire
From an outside prospective....

I find it rather touching your children say the pledge of alligence in school. its a bonding moment for a group of people whom will need it later in life.

America is a world in its own right. Half your schools teach with World maps so out of proportion to show how big America is that you leave other countries off.
a third of the country doesn't even know more then a handful of other countries names. The backlash towards Americans world wide is rather sad but it is not a small contingent either, and grows when the USA Government decide to throw their weight around, as well as Hollywood portraying other countries incorrectly and like cowards like the Argo movie did doesn't help. and for some reason America can't seem to apologies to the outside world.

Its a good thing for Americans to be proud of their country. to feel that bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. I say keep it up, as the world becomes more a cyber world with business, technology, privatization, It will hold your country together longer then others that will fall apart.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-mother-warned-me-1.aspx



[i]Poem : The Cyber Touch http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-cyber-touch.aspx
Poem : The Last Moments http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-last-moments.aspx
Story : One day only http://www.lushstories.com/stories/oral-sex/one-day-only.aspx
Poem: My Toy http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-toy.aspx#comments/i]


WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:36:40 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,299
Location: Cakeland, United States
I say we enforce brainwashing as soon as fucking possible. Should be playing on all speakers inside every delivery room in the 50 United States and every single one of those countries where we've invaded & installed our own puppet dictators.

Have a US military base on your soil? You better know that pledge of allegiance to the US flag and know when to wrap yourself in it to advance your own ideology (or ours).

A year after the time you're yabbering Mama & Dada & poopoo - you need to be coherently pronouncing syllables & reciting that sacred pledge every morning when you wake up. If you see someone stepping out of line or rebelling - stone that person!

Parents these days... Embarassed



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
CurlyGirly
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:07:17 PM

Rank: CurlyFries

Joined: 10/5/2012
Posts: 1,778
Location: United States
Tranquil wrote:
From an outside prospective....

I find it rather touching your children say the pledge of alligence in school. its a bonding moment for a group of people whom will need it later in life.

America is a world in its own right. Half your schools teach with World maps so out of proportion to show how big America is that you leave other countries off.
a third of the country doesn't even know more then a handful of other countries names. The backlash towards Americans world wide is rather sad but it is not a small contingent either, and grows when the USA Government decide to throw their weight around, as well as Hollywood portraying other countries incorrectly and like cowards like the Argo movie did doesn't help. and for some reason America can't seem to apologies to the outside world.

Its a good thing for Americans to be proud of their country. to feel that bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. I say keep it up, as the world becomes more a cyber world with business, technology, privatization, It will hold your country together longer then others that will fall apart.


And what exactly are we apologizing for? How far back do the grievances go? Does each individual American need to send an apology letter? Is it OK for the government to send one mass apology to the world? You can just fill in the blank where you think we've wronged you. Do you get to choose what/why we're apologizing? I'm pretty sure what you think we need to apologize for, someone else will thank us for. It's a no win situation.

Do I think this country is right or perfect all the time? No fucking way, but the America bashing gets old. evil4


As far as the OP, I'm a nostalgic and patriotic person. I like it. In fact the company I work for has us say the pledge before we start our annual meetings, which was this past weekend.




It won a potato. Aren't you intrigued?



LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:23:50 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
CurlyGirly wrote:


And what exactly are we apologizing for? How far back do the grievances go? Does each individual American need to send an apology letter?


No worries, Curly. There's a form for this:


CurlyGirly
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:27:42 PM

Rank: CurlyFries

Joined: 10/5/2012
Posts: 1,778
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


No worries, Curly. There's a form for this:




Laughing Out Loud


Glad to know there's an official form.





It won a potato. Aren't you intrigued?



Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 5:10:04 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/31/2013
Posts: 2,196
Location: Curled up in front of a beautiful fire
Oh Wow,
My words where not written to insult or for you to take offence. It was a simple personal perspective from a non American. it was even positive in regards to the actual Ops question.

There are many instances that the USA has done things to hurt little countries such as mine. do these piss me off. why of course they do. However there is no denying the USA does do things to help little countries around the world. so yes it balance it out.

Do I believe my country has be hurt by the USA, yes originally, but a lot of good has come from the hurt. do we hold onto grievances in regards to these situations? hell no, we wouldn't be a country that move with the times if we did to survive. do I believe the USA holds grievances.. umm yes I do. as we are still paying for a decision from years ago. One we hold strong to. We still have sanctions on us because of it. but we work around them. Also I believe What was huge against us, was simply small fry to the USA and therefore they didn't really think of it again. a long grievance? hmm I wouldn't call this example a long term grievance rather that we are continually having to pay a new price in regards to the decision every time your terms change. As I said, we seem to be able to work around them when they are thrown at us.

Wikipedia Quote

"New Zealand is a signatory of the ANZUS treaty, a defence pact between it, Australia and the United States dating from 1951. After the 1986 anti-nuclear legislation that refused access of nuclear-powered or armed vessels to ports, the USA withdrew its obligations to New Zealand under ANZUS, and ANZUS exercises are now bi-lateral between Australia and the United States. Under anti-nuclear legislation, any ship must declare whether it is nuclear propelled or carrying nuclear weapons before entering New Zealand waters. Due to the US policy at that time of "neither confirm nor deny", ship visits ceased. Despite the Presidential Directive of 27 September 1991 that removed tactical nuclear weapons from U.S. surface ships, attack submarines, and naval aircraft,[60] ship visits have not resumed. Despite signs of rapprochement in recent years, military relationships with the US remain limited, although senior US officials have been complimentary about New Zealand's contributions to the Iraq[citation needed] and Afghanistan conflicts.[61] New Zealand retains a close bi-lateral defence relationship with Australia.

HMNZS Te Kaha and HMNZS Endeavour and the South Korean destroyer ROKS Choe Yeong at RIMPAC 2012
Due to New Zealand's antinuclear policy, defence cooperation with the U.S., including training exercises, has been significantly restricted since 1986, when the ANZUS treaty defence obligations to NZ were suspended by the USA. However, New Zealand and the USA remain 'very, very good friends'.[62] On 26 July 2008 during a visit to New Zealand, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice upgraded this status and said "New Zealand is now a friend and an ally".[63] The NZDF has served alongside NATO led forces in Afghanistan in recent times, and in 2004 the NZSAS was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation by US President George W Bush for "extraordinary heroism" in action."

Does this effect my friendship with friends I hold dear in the USA , Why no, no it does. Why would I want to that over a Government choice?





http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-mother-warned-me-1.aspx



[i]Poem : The Cyber Touch http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-cyber-touch.aspx
Poem : The Last Moments http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-last-moments.aspx
Story : One day only http://www.lushstories.com/stories/oral-sex/one-day-only.aspx
Poem: My Toy http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-toy.aspx#comments/i]


Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:06:55 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/31/2013
Posts: 2,196
Location: Curled up in front of a beautiful fire
Oh and as for the apology i said American can't seem to give?

quote from channel 24 entertainment now .

{during Oscar media interviews last month, Affleck told reporters: "Let me just start by saying I love New Zealand, and I love New Zealanders." He added that "I think that it's tricky. You walk a fine line. You are doing a historical movie and naturally you have to make some creative choices about how you are going to condense this into a three-act structure."}


if a director from another country minimized a dangerous game of cat and mouse, calling your country cowards when in fact they took much risk in the things they could help with and did considering their limited power and protection, i am sure heads would role.

Just saying...


http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-mother-warned-me-1.aspx



[i]Poem : The Cyber Touch http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-cyber-touch.aspx
Poem : The Last Moments http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-poems/the-last-moments.aspx
Story : One day only http://www.lushstories.com/stories/oral-sex/one-day-only.aspx
Poem: My Toy http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/my-toy.aspx#comments/i]


Kitanica
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:03:34 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
Argo is not a documentary. It could be about purple flying ass monsters in turbans and he could call them Iranian lol. That's Hollywood. They tell the "truth" that will sell movie tickets.

The Texas chainsaw Massacre didn't actually happen.

It's a movie, lighten up. If you don't like don't pay him 9$ to watch his movie, I don't like the movie springbreakers because i hate the entire let's get drunk
and act stupid springbreak culture, so I'm not going to see it. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Oh and Brad Pitt's crew of rag tag Nazi hunters didn't actually kill hitler, it's not an anti German political message. It's a loveably graphic romp about the bear Jew that's fun for the whole family. It's based on the true story of world war 2. Just as Argo is based on the true story of hostages being taken in Iran. I think they called it the Iranian Hostage Crisis.


allyssa
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:28:56 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 1/20/2013
Posts: 26
Location: United States
YES, if they can't then why is the military fighting for freedom?
Kitanica
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:40:02 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
allyssa wrote:
YES, if they can't then why is the military fighting for freedom?


To protect their FREEDOM to not say it if they choose not to, like I may not like what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:29:50 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 537,384
They defend everyone's right to speak and be I taught and went to school and never remember being Forced to bu twe all did it out of respect and if it would have gotten out we didn't I wouldn't have been able to sit for a week. Its all out of respect
Kitanica
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:22:13 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 881
Location: The Sprawl, United States
^wow.
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.