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At least 18 children and 9 others dead in Connecticut school shooting. Does this change your mind ab Options · View
Guest
Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 2:51:29 PM

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From The New York Times (today):


In other Western countries, per capita homicide rates, as well as rates of violent crime involving guns, are a fraction of what they are in the United States. The possible explanations of this are limited. Gun advocates claim it has nothing to do with our permissive gun laws or our customs and practices involving guns. If they are right, should we conclude that Americans are simply inherently more violent, more disposed to mental derangement, and less moral than people in other Western countries? If you resist that conclusion, you have little choice but to accept that our easy access to all manner of firearms is a large part of the explanation of why we kill each at a much higher rate than our counterparts elsewhere. Gun advocates must search their consciences to determine whether they really want to share responsibility for the perpetuation of policies that make our country the homicide capitol of the developed world.



Full article:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/why-gun-control-is-not-enough/?ref=opinion
Jack_42
Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:15:09 PM

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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
If the consequences of this issue weren't so serious it would be corny. Running around with a gun or having one in the shower (remember psycho?) is so childish.
CurlyGirly
Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:31:44 PM

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Joined: 10/5/2012
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Location: United States
I keep telling myself I won't post in this thread anymore, but here I go again. confused5

Anyway, I live in a rural town in the Midwest with less than 8000 people and have a child in high school. I received a recorded call from the Superintendent of schools for our town today saying there were "rumors of a threat." The message said the rumors were investigated and found to be just that, rumors.

However, this is what happened for my child and the other kids at the HS school today: They were told there is a rumor going around school that there is going to be a shooting tomorrow at their school, so they are setting up armed police in all the hallways for tomorrow. Also, they had drills today in the event of the a shooting where boys were taught to move cabinets in front of doors etc. I know several parents who are keeping their children home tomorrow.

I'm happy that the school is taking this seriously and taking precautions, but I can't tell you how sad this makes me for our children and our society. Instead of tornado and fire drills, we now have lockdowns and "armed gunman drills." I know someone pointed out the schools were not keeping up with the times as far as still having fire drills and not enough lockdowns or whatever. You win, the schools and children are waking up and trying to protect themselves from "you." Honestly, I can't believe you would rather have our children/your children learn these new drills instead of giving up your automatic/assault weapons.

So when you gun advocates talk about "needing them for protection" and "feeling safe", who are we supposed to feel safe from? I certainly don't feel any safer and I know my children don't.

I absolutely LOVE this country and I am so tired of people from other countries bashing us (especially in this damn thread), but we can't defend our history/stance with this issue. Sorry, if you think you can, but it is indefensible. angry7 Interpret them any way you want, the numbers are there.






oldrascal
Posted: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:50:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 44
Location: Right here, United States
Please look at this on Youtube and see if it makes sense to you.

Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!
tender_cowboy
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:30:03 PM

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Joined: 10/7/2007
Posts: 52
Location: South Dakota
great video Mr old rascal every one should take a few moments to watch and think about it. thanks for posting
MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:39:53 PM

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Location: United States


LadyX
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:26:42 PM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,661
Location: United States
oldrascal wrote:
Please look at this on Youtube and see if it makes sense to you.

Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!


Terrible thing that happened to that lady. Then she unleashed the inevitable "I might need my guns to protect me and mine against my totalitarian gubmint" comment, at which time she just becomes another wild-eyed paranoid nut. And that's the thing. You want to play stat-fest? Fine. But sooner or later the creepy gun talk seeps in, and at that point it's like trying to talk diversity with a Klansman.

SydneySider
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:58:43 AM

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Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 1,512
Location: Sydney, Australia
Tighter gun laws are not going to stop a complete nut job from going on a killing spree. But, I ask this. What if no one owned them (except gun club members, in which case they should be stored at the club, and licensed hunters/farmers to protect livestock etc in rural areas), would you feel the need to own a gun for self protection?? It seems some gun owners are protecting themselves from other gun owners (not the whacko). It just seems to me you're protecting yourselves from yourselves, the other gun owners. You certainly dont need to protect yourself against me. What happened to that woman in the video above is nothing short of tragic, but how many times do you think someone has been in a position in a mass shooting like that and has had the chance to take the shooter out?? Its a very rare case if you ask me, and the fact that her parents were victims adds false weight to something that is a highly unlikely situation. And in the case that people are carrying a gun on their person, most would be too shit scared to use it in a massacre situation.

The thing is, banning them will not solve the issue, just like making drugs and speeding illegal. The laws might be created, but how many people are going to live by them?? My answer is not many. Most responsible gun owners are going to say, who the fuck do they think they are telling me I cant own a firearm, in which case they become irresponsible. The problem is too big to contain and fully police if you ask me, and if some whack job wants to get their hands on a gun to kill a bunch of people, they will find a way. I can see it now, the LAPD door knocking in Compton taking the guns from all the gang bangers, yeah right. There is, unfortunately, no easy solution to this problem. Security at the doors of the schools is the only way you will stop the killing there, but what about other public places of high populous??



keoloke
Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:08:55 AM

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Posts: 557
Location: United States
Absolutely no guns, not a stricter gun controll. What has happened only reinforces my view. This is however wishful thinking, since the economic factor is at stake. As a result, not 20 nor 100 children would be enough to get the guns.

My thoughts:
Aggressive driving is real. If I do cross the street when I'm not supposed too and someone who's already late or just understandably mad, comes to a screeching halt inches from me. I could be in serious trouble because he's in a car and I'm not. But we would not ban cars and one reason is because there were not made to kill people.

If someone has a gun and just like me, he/she has no legal reason to carry one. Again, I'm in serious trouble. Since a gun was made to actually kill people, than it should be banned.
It would not fix the matter by telling me to carry one also.

Years ago, have used some guns, semi-auto and automatic ones in a controlled environment for legal reasons. Regarding the automatic ones, they are so fast, you do not know where are you shooting. Mine it stopped shooting in just a few seconds. It was smoking and hot, I serioulsly thought it broke, but it was simply out of ammo. One second later I replaced the cartridge and ready again. They do not belong in the hands of any civilian for any reason.

On another note. In the U.S. people are medicated and over medicated. I'm assuming that the shooter, since it was reported that he might have medical issues, he could have been on a regimen of medications. That's something also to thinks of... But that is another economic factor. That also would not be brought up or discussed if existed.

Practice Happiness, it is a choice

Life is simple; we are what we eat and what we read. Talk is not much needed.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:01:31 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,793
This whole thread is craziness. Which ever side you believe is what you believe. You cannot convince or sway a person who thinks guns should be banned to someone who thinks it shouldn't. So this is mearly a thread to argue over the internet. lol. Which is kinda funny to read how many get bent out of shape about it.

But on another note. I LOVE my guns! I bought another one just two days ago. I've been shooting them since I was a little girl and it's always been a part of my life and always will be. Plus guys think it's pretty hot when a hot ass girl can shoot and knows her shit about guns and weaponry. If you REALLY know guns like that...and you live and breathe them...then you have a different understanding than 99.9% of the public.

When the shit goes down and your without a gun, don't come running to me. Fight them off with your hands. Let me know how that works out for you. lol.

chileanbean
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:59:31 PM

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Location: Ain\'t nobody got time for that! , Canada
Although i don't think people need to be packing everywhere they go, i see it this way: The problem isn't the weapon, it's the people.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:38:51 PM

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Posts: 13,657
Location: My Tower, United States
Leena00 wrote:


When the shit goes down and your without a gun, don't come running to me. Fight them off with your hands. Let me know how that works out for you. lol.



this is my second favorite phrase, right after 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'. a few questions come to mind

1) what shit is going down?

2) if i do come running to you, what's your reaction going to be? that i'm running to you for help, or coming after you, in which case, are you going to shoot me?

3) why would i come running to you in the first place? most likely i'm running away from the people pointing deadly weapons at me.

4) you seem to take a great delight in the idea that someone, because they don't believe in guns, is going to get shown the error of their ways by being gunned down. is that a fair assessment? :)

Highwayman
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 11:07:53 PM

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Joined: 10/10/2012
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Being that the problem is the people. We all know them. Should they be armed?

‎"The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." --Wilde
adagio_sabadicus
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:52:16 AM

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Joined: 1/24/2013
Posts: 1,246
This is a a no brainer and i will speak how I feel. The US is a violent society and get hard-ons watching violence. I believe in the constitution and I belive in Apple Pie, but people should stand up for what is right. Who in the right mind need's an automatic weapon to hunt down and slaughter defenseless animals. Im not saying people who own assault weapons or fools. Im saying they stink probably waving the rebel flag and card carrying member of the KKK and good ole boy's rotary club.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:04:06 AM

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sprite wrote:


1) what shit is going down?



Oh, you know...the same bullshit, fear-mongering hypothetical scenario that's always referred to when thesconversations happen. It's really vague though, and probably by design, since it's not based in reality, but only meant to help preserve the whole "guns and god" worldview that so many cling to.

But i think, if cornered, they'd say it would have something to do with Obama's fascist brigades rounding up people's weapons and stripping land ownership, or maybe roving gangs in formerly peaceful suburbia, or whatever. Usually the word "jackboots" appears somewhere in this fevered fantasy story, too. But the main thing is fear. If they can't stoke that, then they just seem out of touch, as opposed to out of touch as well as frighteningly paranoid.
kputt6912
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:09:57 AM

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Location: upstate, United States
When is Society going to realise that HUMANS are the problem??Some nut bag starts shooting at me or just randomly shooting,my gun will be emptied into him!!!Humans are the only creature on the planet that kills for fun!!Mentally ill ppl need help & criminals,like inner city crack heads/gangbangers,will get guns no matter what law you gun haters think you can make!!!Most ppl don't realise either that we cannot buy MACHINE GUNS!!This isn't Hollywood!!Semi-Auto rifles DO NOT shoot like a MACHINE GUN!!They can only fire as fast as you pull the trigger!!The sicko in CONN. shootings NEVER EVER used a Semi-Auto rifle to kill those kids/adults,he used 2 HAND GUNS,as told by the FBI,ATF & CONN. Stat Police!!!And whats comming down is the Gov'ts jack booted thugs will be dragging you out of your homes to put you in interment camps built by FEMA!!!Wake up America,this isn't the land of the free anymore!!
LadyX
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:11:56 AM

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kputt6912 wrote:
. Stat Police!!!And whats comming down is the Gov'ts jack booted thugs will be dragging you out of your homes to put you in interment camps built by FEMA!!!Wake up America,this isn't the land of the free anymore!!


Ah yes. Right on schedule. LOL. evil4
Kitanica
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:54:32 AM

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Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 882
Location: The Sprawl, United States
kputt6912 wrote:
When is Society going to realise that HUMANS are the problem??Some nut bag starts shooting at me or just randomly shooting,my gun will be emptied into him!!!Humans are the only creature on the planet that kills for fun!!Mentally ill ppl need help & criminals,like inner city crack heads/gangbangers,will get guns no matter what law you gun haters think you can make!!!Most ppl don't realise either that we cannot buy MACHINE GUNS!!This isn't Hollywood!!Semi-Auto rifles DO NOT shoot like a MACHINE GUN!!They can only fire as fast as you pull the trigger!!The sicko in CONN. shootings NEVER EVER used a Semi-Auto rifle to kill those kids/adults,he used 2 HAND GUNS,as told by the FBI,ATF & CONN. Stat Police!!!And whats comming down is the Gov'ts jack booted thugs will be dragging you out of your homes to put you in interment camps built by FEMA!!!Wake up America,this isn't the land of the free anymore!!


Your post made me lol. you CAN buy automatics. It's just harder than semi autos and there's more paperwork for them. So that's factually wrong. Not to mention you sound absolutely bonkers. Ex post facto laws protect any gun owner from future legislation banning future weapons because weapons purchased today or prior to today were purchased before any law coming out tomorrow or in the future. So there will be no internment camps. Lots of animals kill for fun, look at cats. Oh and you misspelled state police in your capslock induced ignorant fervor.


Guest
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:52:07 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,793
"When the shit goes down." Is a broad statement meaning anytime you might need a weapon, such as a gun, to defend yourself.

Here are some examples of those times for those of you who think "shit" never goes down:

Revolutionary War
War of 1812
Texas Revolution
Civil War
Attach on Pearl Harbor
ect.

There will always be war and I'm sure there will be more in the future.

Also, every day occurrences where if you did have a gun you could have saved lives or yourself:
Every school shooting
Movie shootings
Robbery into your own home
Being mugged
Being raped
ect.

It's sad to think people are that nieve.
Guest
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:26:18 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,793
Does it change my mind on the US Constitution, nope.
Tragic happenings, but, nothing changed.

Gabby" Gifford was shot, tragic, hubby's response buy a magnum handgun and a "assault rifle"
Guest
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:27:14 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 472,793
It's sad to think people are that nieve. " Leena00

Simply the truth.
sprite
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:34:17 PM

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Posts: 13,657
Location: My Tower, United States
Leena00 wrote:
"When the shit goes down." Is a broad statement meaning anytime you might need a weapon, such as a gun, to defend yourself.

Here are some examples of those times for those of you who think "shit" never goes down:

Revolutionary War
War of 1812
Texas Revolution
Civil War
Attach on Pearl Harbor
ect.

There will always be war and I'm sure there will be more in the future.

Also, every day occurrences where if you did have a gun you could have saved lives or yourself:
Every school shooting
Movie shootings
Robbery into your own home
Being mugged
Being raped
ect.

It's sad to think people are that nieve.


I agree with you that on your examples up until the Attack on Pearl Harbor. Trained soldiers were able to do very little to shoot down Japanese airplanes. What a civilian with a pistol could of done is beyond me. the latest of the previous examples, the Civil War, took place in 1862 when guns tended to be single shot front musket loaders, incapable of killing mass numbers of people in a short period of time. The whole notion that the US will be attacked in a conventional way on our own territory is so out of date it's laughable. Any war we fight from this point on, will be carried out on Foreign soil or by weapons that will render armed citizens irrelevant: either missiles or drones or aircraft. It will not be fought by conventional means such as infantry and tanks. That's a fact.

let's take the other instances. Movie shootings, ie, Aurora. From the reports, there was so much chaos that i shudder to think how many more might have died if people in the building had been armed. it was dark, there was smoke, it was loud, the killer was prepared and armored. i thank god no one else had a gun.

Newton and other school shootings. Maybe, maybe not. I am prepared to admit that someone who was trained for just such situations might have made a difference. are we prepared to locate someone of that caliber on every single school site in the country? perhaps it's part of the solution. as is making guns like the ones Lanza used less readily accessible.

Robbery in your own home. i think i'm on record here as saying, if you want to have a shot gun or handgun in your own home dedicated purely to fending off home invasion, i am in favor of that as long as you are willing to be responsible in making it inaccessible to ANYone else. that means children or mentally disturbed family members or the robbers themselves. Keep it locked so that only YOU can use it.

being mugged or raped. scary. usually takes you unaware. from personal experience, i can tell you that having a gun on your person isn't always going to be a deterrent. it means you have to be able to use it if you're attacked. It means you have to have it easily accessible at a moments notice. sometimes it's going to work. sometimes you're going to be supplying the mugger or rapist with another weapon to used against you or against someone else. Not really my ideal scenario. also, guns tend to make people over confident about being somewhere they shouldn't be, about being able to handle a bad situation, about not paying close enough attention. sometimes the things that keep you safest, are making sure you're never in a situation where you might need a gun.

oh, and trust me, i am not naive. i am so far on the other side of the field from naive that it's laughable. :)

sprite
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:43:43 PM

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Buc wrote:
It's sad to think people are that nieve. " Leena00

Simply the truth.


i think that was a self referential statement, Buc, but i'm sure it could be applied to others as well. ;)
sprite
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:44:44 PM

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LadyX wrote:


Ah yes. Right on schedule. LOL. evil4


the timing was actually comedic, wasn't it? :)
LOVES4PLAY
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:11:46 PM

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Wish I knew how to post a pic. in this forum.Then perhaps some one could shed some enlightenment upon what i found.. Ive 4 photos of a live round that I was Disarming..
I've been around guns for 58 yrs, & never encountered anything like it B-4..
Yes I am hoping for some feedback, Photos are posted in my pPhoto Album... Thank You Joel
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