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lovewhenuswallow wrote: Common sense should dictate that even if only one person is murdered, that's one person too many because a life is a life. Murder is murder, does it really matter what the excuse or the method of committing it is? John Wayne Gacy murdered more people than any of these shooters have and he didn't use a gun. The authorities are still working on the body count btw.
Yep. Let's for a moment agree with our good friends on the this issue of guns. Will the US Federal Government conduct a "buy back " program for the all at once illegal guns ?
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lovewhenuswallow wrote: Common sense should dictate that even if only one person is murdered, that's one person too many because a life is a life. Murder is murder, does it really matter what the excuse or the method of committing it is? John Wayne Gacy murdered more people than any of these shooters have and he didn't use a gun. The authorities are still working on the body count btw.
He didn't kill them all at the same time. He didn't have the means for that. How many killers like gacy have there been since columbine happened and how many killers like dylan klebold and eric harris have their been since columbine? Mass murder is becoming easier and easier. It takes more will power to do what gacy did. Any coward can pull a trigger.
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Buc wrote:
Yep.
Let's for a moment agree with our good friends on the this issue of guns.
Will the US Federal Government conduct a "buy back " program for the all at once illegal guns ?
There isn't a universal gun ban proposed. That's like fearing universal drug legalization. It's not going to happen. It's an irrational, paranoid and plain stupid fear you have.
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Magical_felix wrote:
He didn't kill them all at the same time. He didn't have the means for that. How many killers like gacy have there been since columbine happened and how many killers like dylan klebold and eric harris have their been since columbine? Mass murder is becoming easier and easier. It takes more will power to do what gacy did. Any coward can pull a trigger.
Again, does it matter when they were killed? Differnt type of psychopath is still a psychopath. Looks to me as if these crazies are trying to one up one another. Watching tv and thinking to themselves that they can do better than that guy. The thought of busting a cap in one or more of my classmates or anyone else for that matter has never crossed my mind. Take guns away and watch the creativety level in which mass murders are committed rise. Face it man, crazy people are crazy.
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lovewhenuswallow wrote:Again, does it matter when they were killed? Differnt type of psychopath is still a psychopath. Looks to me as if these crazies are trying to one up one another. Watching tv and thinking to themselves that they can do better than that guy. The thought of busting a cap in one or more of my classmates or anyone else for that matter has never crossed my mind.
Take guns away and watch the creativety level in which mass murders are committed rise. Face it man, crazy people are crazy.
Are you saying that if the crazies didn't have assault rifles, they would build a bomb instead? Don't you think there are more people that can pull a trigger than build a bomb? Or figure out a way to burn a building down quickly and in a way to kill everyone inside etc? If i recall correctly, the columbine kid's bombs failed to go off. That would take another level of intelligence like Tim McVeigh and that is way more rare. He's even considered a terrorist who killed for different reasons than some of these other guys.
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Magical_felix wrote:
Are you saying that if the crazies didn't have assault rifles, they would build a bomb instead? Don't you think there are more people that can pull a trigger than build a bomb? Or figure out a way to burn a building down quickly and in a way to kill everyone inside etc? If i recall correctly, the columbine kid's bombs failed to go off. That would take another level of intelligence like Tim McVeigh and that is way more rare. He's even considered a terrorist who killed for different reasons than some of these other guys.
I know what you're going to say but, Inmates in jails and prison come up with very creative ways of murdering other inmates. If the motivation is there, just sayin don't underestimate anyone, who knows what they're capable of. In today's world we have kids killing other kids, who would have ever seen that coming?
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lovewhenuswallow wrote:I know what you're going to say but, Inmates in jails and prison come up with very creative ways of murdering other inmates. If the motivation is there, just sayin don't underestimate anyone, who knows what they're capable of. In today's world we have kids killing other kids, who would ever see that coming?
I understand what you are saying. Where there is a will there is a way. Right? But in your example. The prisoners beat each other to death, poison and stab each other. ONE at a time. Imagine if one of the inmates had an assault rifle. You damn well know he would use it to take out as many fools as he can. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Eventually that inmate will do that or another inmate that would will steal the gun and do it.
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lovewhenuswallow wrote:I know what you're going to say but, Inmates in jails and prison come up with very creative ways of murdering other inmates. If the motivation is there, just sayin don't underestimate anyone, who knows what they're capable of. In today's world we have kids killing other kids, who would ever see that coming?
And I know what you (and others) are saying, but it's not a one-to-one ratio. Not every person with a gun would simply move on to the other, more ardous, ways of killing if guns weren't as readily available. You're right that some people are simply hell-bent on murdering no matter what methods are available to them. It's no surprise of course that many of these people, as you mention, are in prisons. But there are many, many others, perhaps the majority of otherwise killers, who simply wouldn't take lives if not for guns. Every situation is different, but the net result of less guns is less murders. Spare me the counterargument of "only criminals having guns", etc. That's a philosophical divide that's just not going to get bridged between the two points of view. All I'm saying is that not even close to everyone who pulls a gun out and smokes somebody would've otherwise stabbed them repeatedly to death, or strangled them, or bent a spoon into a shiv.
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LadyX wrote:
And I know what you (and others) are saying, but it's not a one-to-one ratio. Not every person with a gun would simply move on to the other, more ardous, ways of killing if guns weren't as readily available. You're right that some people are simply hell-bent on murdering no matter what methods are available to them. It's no surprise of course that many of these people, as you mention, are in prisons. But there are many, many others, perhaps the majority of otherwise killers, who simply wouldn't take lives if not for guns. Every situation is different, but the net result of less guns is less murders.
Spare me the counterargument of "only criminals having guns", etc. That's a philosophical divide that's just not going to get bridged between the two points of view. All I'm saying is that not even close to everyone who pulls a gun out and smokes somebody would've otherwise stabbed them repeatedly to death, or strangled them, or bent a spoon into a shiv.
Exactly. It's all about the will power involved with strangling someone. That's no easy thing, physically and mentally. Shooting them? way easier and quicker.
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Will the US Federal Government conduct a "buy back " program for the all at once illegal guns ?
Those guns and mags that are made illegal by the Obama/Diane Finstien proposed law?
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Buc wrote:Will the US Federal Government conduct a "buy back " program for the all at once illegal guns ?
Those guns and mags that are made illegal by the Obama/Diane Finstien proposed law? I don't know. What do you think? wait...wait...don't tell me... "Obama's a socialist!"
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Magical_felix wrote:
Exactly. It's all about the will power involved with strangling someone. That's no easy thing, physically and mentally. Shooting them? way easier and quicker.
Sneak up behind you and stick you in the side of your neck with a knife, severing your carotid artery turning you into a blood sprinkler, in seconds the lack of blood flow to your brain is going to render you unable to act. Unless someone comes to your aid it's highly unlikely that you would be able to apply enough pressure to stop the bleeding on your own or even have the wit to be able to do it because your brain won't be functioning properly due to lack of blood flow. Prison inmates and thugs on the streets know this sort of thing. Besides it's a lot more quiet method.
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LadyX wrote:
And I know what you (and others) are saying, but it's not a one-to-one ratio. Not every person with a gun would simply move on to the other, more ardous, ways of killing if guns weren't as readily available. You're right that some people are simply hell-bent on murdering no matter what methods are available to them. It's no surprise of course that many of these people, as you mention, are in prisons. But there are many, many others, perhaps the majority of otherwise killers, who simply wouldn't take lives if not for guns. Every situation is different, but the net result of less guns is less murders. Spare me the counterargument of "only criminals having guns", etc. That's a philosophical divide that's just not going to get bridged between the two points of view. All I'm saying is that not even close to everyone who pulls a gun out and smokes somebody would've otherwise stabbed them repeatedly to death, or strangled them, or bent a spoon into a shiv.
You're 100% sure of this? In this day and age?
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lovewhenuswallow wrote: You're 100% sure of this? It's simple logic and social behavior. Take away the easy path and a lot of people won't bother to go down the hard one.
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lovewhenuswallow wrote: Sneak up behind you and stick you in the side of your neck with a knife, severing your carotid artery turning you into a blood sprinkler, in seconds the lack of blood flow to your brain is going to render you unable to act. Unless someone comes to your aid it's highly unlikely that you would be able to apply enough pressure to stop the bleeding on your own or even have the wit to be able to do it because your brain won't be functioning properly due to lack of blood flow. Prison inmates and thugs on the streets know this sort of thing. Besides it's a lot more quiet method. What was the point of that? Yeah I know you can die from a stabbing? what? I am talking about the ease of mass murder with an assault rifle compared to a shank but I see you are out of your element like buc here.
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Buc wrote:Will the US Federal Government conduct a "buy back " program for the all at once illegal guns ?
Those guns and mags that are made illegal by the Obama/Diane Finstien proposed law? For assault rifles? I am sure it would cost a fraction of all the bullshit aid and liberating and peace keeping we do around the world the far right loves. Give me a break. Plus they can turn those guns into service rifles for police and we won't need to purchase more..... derp.
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Magical_felix wrote:
What was the point of that? Yeah I know you can die from a stabbing? what?
I am talking about the ease of mass murder with an assault rifle compared to a shank but I see you are out of your element like buc here.
Just giving an example on how killers adapt when they lack the preferred method. you're focused on the instrument of mass killings not the mentality that goes with it. i was in a potential mass shooting incident when i was a teen. i heard a bunch of 'pops' and when i turned around this gang member was pointing a hand gun directly at me from about 10 yards away. He wasnt alone and they booked out once they ran out of rounds. Needless to say quite a few shots were fired and the only person who got hit was the asshole biker, who was shot in the hand while sitting on his motorcycle right across the street from where i was standing. Had these gang bangers been better shots i probably wouldn't be telling you this right now and that whole scene would have been a lot worse. lol you wanna talk about one hell of an adrenaline rush though.
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It's a shame the day they come for my legally bought, and registered firearms. Oh, but I should go and get a shotgun?
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Magical_felix wrote:
He didn't kill them all at the same time. He didn't have the means for that. How many killers like gacy have there been since columbine happened and how many killers like dylan klebold and eric harris have their been since columbine? Mass murder is becoming easier and easier. It takes more will power to do what gacy did. Any coward can pull a trigger.
Can't believe you said some of these things but most notably i would say mass murder is becoming more and more common, not necessarily easier.
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"you're focused on the instrument of mass killings not the mentality that goes with it."
Si, that's the point of this thread n'est-ce pa?
"The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." --Wilde
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Highwayman wrote:"you're focused on the instrument of mass killings not the mentality that goes with it."
Si, that's the point of this thread n'est-ce pa? If that's the case you're either doing it wrong or looking at it from the wrong angle. Take your pic.
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lovewhenuswallow wrote: If that's the case you're either doing it wrong or looking at it from the wrong angle. Take your pic. But how? We already know that killers to some extent have "the mentality" to kill, even if it's only in the white-hot heat of that moment. The instrument in question makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill. You don't even have to lay your hands on a person, or get within a dozen feet of them for that matter. All you have to do is point and pull with one single finger, and not even with that much force. It makes it easier to kill one person. It makes it way easier to kill multiple people at one time. Because it's easier, more people get killed. Of that, yes, I'm 100% sure, even in this day and age.
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LadyX wrote:
But how? We already know that killers to some extent have "the mentality" to kill, even if it's only in the white-hot heat of that moment. The instrument in question makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill. You don't even have to lay your hands on a person, or get within a dozen feet of them for that matter. All you have to do is point and pull with one single finger, and not even with that much force. It makes it easier to kill one person. It makes it way easier to kill multiple people at one time. Because it's easier, more people get killed. Of that, yes, I'm 100% sure, even in this day and age.
Don't you get it? That doesn't matter apparently. Because you can throw a rock at someone. You want them to ban rocks? NOT IN MY AMURICA! Apparently the ease of doing something has nothing to do with wether humans will do it or not. Human nature DOES not factor in when it comes to guns. What a ridiculous notion. You know how most murders are committed by someone the victim knows in the heat of the moment during an argument... Well guess what. The gun did not kill the person the person killed the person. I mean a 100 lb woman can choke her 300 lb husband and kill him too. The gun had nothing to do with wether he ended up dead. The gun DID NOT make it easier for her. STOP BEING SO SIMPLE LADYX! GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!
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ByronLord wrote:Yet another mass killing sponsored by your local NRA.
Guns kill more people in the US than cars do and they are much less used. and just who do you propose to take the guns away. A bunch of liberals from MA.
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Curious .... Strangling someone would be easier than shooting someone? Personally, I'd have the same non-easement with both.
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AngelHeart01 wrote:Curious .... Strangling someone would be easier than shooting someone? Personally, I'd have the same non-easement with both. exactly, Murder/Homicide is already against the Law in all US States. See how well those and other laws are working ,,,, but I am sure these new laws will work sooooooooo much better.
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LadyX wrote:
But how? We already know that killers to some extent have "the mentality" to kill, even if it's only in the white-hot heat of that moment. The instrument in question makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill. You don't even have to lay your hands on a person, or get within a dozen feet of them for that matter. All you have to do is point and pull with one single finger, and not even with that much force. It makes it easier to kill one person. It makes it way easier to kill multiple people at one time. Because it's easier, more people get killed. Of that, yes, I'm 100% sure, even in this day and age.
Most of the shootings in my state are gang related and i'm pretty sure most guns obtained here illegaly are thru street gangs. There's a pretty solid angle for dealing with gun violence for you LadyX. Plus you get an added bonus of removing drugs of the streets as well. Sounds like a pretty solid angle to me.
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lovewhenuswallow wrote: Most of the shootings in my state are gang related and i'm pretty sure most guns obtained here illegaly are thru street gangs. There's a pretty solid angle for dealing with gun violence for you LadyX. Plus you get an added bonus of removing drugs of the streets as well. Sounds like a pretty solid angle to me. I'm confused about what you're trying to say. What's this "angle"?
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LadyX wrote:
I'm confused about what you're trying to say. What's this "angle"?
Instead of examining the 2nd amendment, or coming up with half assed gun control idea's such as gun turn in/ buy back programs it's time to focus on the primary problem. Get street gangs of the streets and you see a dramatic decline in gun violence. You said less guns = less killings right? Well there ya go. They focus on street gangs here, but then the athorities go and take thier foot of the gangs neck and then the problem resurfaces.
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