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Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:34:01 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Yep, I ranch in Kansas, own no personal debt, have amassed wealth and comfort and land and my life style is the "threat" to this country.

Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:38:19 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Monocle wrote:


I wish I could believe that. Shit like what Buc writes is part and parcel of the increasing ideological extremism that shuts down the ability to find a middle road and get things done. He talks about patriotism, when it's his type of attitude that actually threatens the country.

Buc, you're being a disingenuous prick. Again. The quote you gave from Obama was from July 3, 2008 months before the meltdown that caused the Great Recession. If you honestly think the game was same on July 3, 2008 and November 3, 2008 you're far less smart than I'd like to give you credit for.

China owns less than 10% of our debt. We own about half of our own debt. And we own significant amounts of other country's debts. The debt is something to reduce, and a strong economy will do that. Trying to reduce the debt while recovering from the Great Recession throttles and threatens the recovery.

Bush drove up the debt to pay for two wars and tax breaks for the wealthy. Obama's debt has been trying to undo the damage Bush did.




How much more would you increase that national Debt by in the next 4 years? Is it your belief that a new Stimulus is due?

#43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.” Obama

So now Obama has added 6.5 more Trillion in only 4 years
Today every man , woman and child owes $ 52, 390."

I know, it is Bush's fault.
Monocle
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:40:56 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
Yep, I ranch in Kansas, own no personal debt, have amassed wealth and comfort and land and my life style is the "threat" to this country.


The roads you ship your cattle on - you built them? Your power and water are completely off the grid? Home built by your own hands from materials you owned and harvested, using tools you built? If it were true, which I know it isn't, you wouldn't be living in America. You'd be living in Bucistan.
Monocle
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:42:03 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
I know, it is Bush's fault.

I'm glad you admit it.

Rembacher
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:47:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,101
Buc wrote:
Corporate tax freedom day continues to get earlier with each passing year thanks to generous government tax cuts, the Canadian Labour Congress says in a report issued Tuesday.

While most individual Canadians don't earn enough to pay off their taxes until sometime in late June, the labour group says the country's businesses will have reaped sufficient revenue to pay their year's share by Jan. 30.

The calculation is for 2011, but the CLC says that was two days earlier than in 2010 when it came on Feb. 1, and notes that it was not long ago when so-called "corporate tax freedom day" came much later in February."


Rembacher, seems to me that you all have it well in hand, I do believe your National Debt has been dropping as well. good on ya.


Yup, sure looks like it's going down. http://www.debtclock.ca/ Oh, wait. Bigger negative numbers aren't a good thing when we are talking debt. I have no clue where you are getting your information Buc. The Canadian national debt hasn't dropped since 2008. And given the size of the deficit, even the current government admits we won't have a budget surplus until after 2021.

And yes. Corporations need to be paying higher taxes. It's ridiculous how unbalanced the taxes are right now.
Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:55:23 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." Obama

I know my taxes did and those of other Ranchers like me,,,,, did i build the road, yes.

In fact the road up to my ranch home (debt free) was built by me.
Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:56:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
95 percent of the Current Tax rates at the Federal Level are Bush rates. The problem becomes how to Laffer our way out of the current 1 trillion per year deficit spending without slowing even more the US Economy.

Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:00:39 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Canadian New Oil Fields ,,,,,, where are they and when do they come on line. The USA on privately held lands have discovered and is bring to market more oil and natural gas then before,, ending the myth of Peak OIL. If not for this private land and wealth creation the US would be in a far deeper hole. How much food and fiber do you grow or raise or do you like 93 percent of Americans exchange your leisure for labor and pay others to raise and grow it for you.
Monocle
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:00:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." Obama

Lie. Not what he said, and you damn well know it.

Quote:
I know my taxes did and those of other Ranchers like me,,,,, did i build the road, yes.

And my taxes. Everyone else's. So, no.

Quote:
In fact the road up to my ranch home (debt free) was built by me.

Good on you for funding the last mile or so. Everything else, no you didn't.
Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:07:43 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Well there we are, I have done nothing and neither have my fellow Farmers and Ranchers. Good thing all those hard working people that are not farmers/ranchers are taking good care of providing for us interlopers.

Next up,,,,,, “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for." Senator Warren

She is one of the poorest among us, like the current President who told us he earns 100's of thousands of dollars a year that he simply does not need.
Guest
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:10:38 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." Obama

Now Jake Tapper of ABC news is also wrongly reporting that exact verbatim quote, darn us.
Monocle
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:19:18 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
Well there we are, I have done nothing and neither have my fellow Farmers and Ranchers.
Not what I said, and you know it.

You really don't understand how a country works.
Monocle
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:20:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." Obama

Now Jake Tapper of ABC news is also wrongly reporting that exact verbatim quote, darn us.


Selective and incomplete quoting. The point you are trying to make a lie, and again, you know it.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 5:40:46 PM

Rank: Thread Mediator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,681
Location: United States
Buc wrote:
Well there we are, I have done nothing and neither have my fellow Farmers and Ranchers. Good thing all those hard working people that are not farmers/ranchers are taking good care of providing for us interlopers.

Next up,,,,,, “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for." Senator Warren

She is one of the poorest among us, like the current President who told us he earns 100's of thousands of dollars a year that he simply does not need.


Do you base all of your opinions on others' quotes and nothing else? It sure seems that way. All of your posts are out-of-context quotes from various people spanning over several years. If you were trying to debate 7th graders, this might be effective. But here, it just makes you look like a dumbass that can't make a point of his own unless he's throwing rocks at other people's statements.

I tried once to get you to actually back up your "this quote was stupid" posts with actual logic, and you failed. But surely that's not always the case, right?

Do you stand behind everything the people you admire say? Do you disagree with everything that people you don't admire say? You don't honestly think that not being Republican means agreeing with everything Obama says or does, do you? I'd say, surely not, but you act as if you actually do, which is sad. If only I saw life as simplistically as you seem to. I did once, and being a toddler was pretty sweet.

Unless, again, this is all an elaborate comedy routine, in which case...bravo sir! evil4
sprite
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:26:29 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,740
Location: My Tower, United States
LadyX wrote:


Do you base all of your opinions on others' quotes and nothing else? It sure seems that way. All of your posts are out-of-context quotes from various people spanning over several years. If you were trying to debate 7th graders, this might be effective. But here, it just makes you look like a dumbass that can't make a point of his own unless he's throwing rocks at other people's statements.

I tried once to get you to actually back up your "this quote was stupid" posts with actual logic, and you failed. But surely that's not always the case, right?

Do you stand behind everything the people you admire say? Do you disagree with everything that people you don't admire say? You don't honestly think that not being Republican means agreeing with everything Obama says, do you? I'd say, surely not, but you act as if you actually do, which is sad. If only I saw life as simplistically as you seem to. I did once, and being a toddler was pretty sweet.

Unless, again, this is all an elaborate comedy routine, in which case...bravo sir! evil4


u just a dum bitch who dont get it. evil5
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 4:11:09 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
I am not a Republican, I am a conservative. Holding both major parties to what they have said in the past and say they will do in the future.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 4:16:40 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
I do understand why you and Sprite and some other are required to become so defensive so ubber personal in your attacks upon me.
Monocle
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 4:59:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 287
Buc wrote:
I do understand why you and Sprite and some other are required to become so defensive so ubber personal in your attacks upon me.


We hold you personally accountable for what you actually write. You hold others accountable for what you think they think, or for the twisted image you have of them and want to convince others exists.
Jack_42
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:05:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 978
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:47:58 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
ability to find a middle road and get things done"

Ok, taxing those the excel is a great idea, right?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:49:41 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Nope, I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything, are you?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:56:54 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Gas prices hit a national average of $3.59 Monday – the highest ever for a Feb. 11. 2013.

This is very good news for me. I have a large holding in a mutual fund that invests in the energy sector. This is also good for conservation of oil and shorter lines when I go and buy my gasoline on vacations (tax deductible trips of course) less traffic as the price goes up, less people go out, less people at restaurants too, a big win for me. I recall a time when our dear friends said that higher gasoline prices were a stealth tax on the poor, is that still how they feel?
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:22:28 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 721
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Buc wrote:
ability to find a middle road and get things done"

Ok, taxing those the excel is a great idea, right?


I see no reason Romney shouldn't pay the same tax I do rather than the 15% that the Republicans believe to be his right.

Romney made his money the same way Bernie Maddof did: borrowing money he didn't intend to pay back. They would buy a company for $100 million using $90 million in borrowed money. Then reorganize it so that they could borrow a further $30 million which they would pay to themselves as a dividend giving themselves a 200% profit. The company would usually go bankrupt under the debt.

The way Romney made his money isn't actually legal but proving the intent is difficult and prosecution would be almost impossible. But the way he made money didn't benefit the country or anyone other than his greedy little self.

People are so fucking stupid that they think the likes of Romney are trying to help them rather than see that they are actually the parasites feeding off them.

George W. Bush made his money in a similar way: Using eminent domain to take private property at a huge discount when they built a new stadium.

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:30:30 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
I see no reason Romney shouldn't pay the same tax I do rather than the 15%"

He does on his earned income, however, your 15 % rate (outdated) is the 2nd bite of the same apple. When he earned it it was taxed at the US Federal Tax rate of the time, then he invested that which was to his home disposable income, then when he has some dividends thrown off of that same money he is taxed again.

new higher capital gain tax rate of 20%" so that must make ya feel better, right?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:45:37 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
New Medicare Surtax Pursuant to IRC Section 1411: The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 added a new 3.8% Medicare Surtax on “net investment income.” This 3.8% Medicare surtax applies to taxpayers with “net investment income” who exceed threshold income amounts of $200,000 for single filers and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. Pursuant to IRC Section 1411, “net investment income” includes interest, dividends, capital gains, retirement income and income from partnerships (as well as other forms of “unearned income”).

This should make some feel better because the wealth creators are having to pay more.

100 percent of earned income is now taxed at a 2 % higher rate for those that have earned income up to $113 k. That tax increase is on the lower income earners to the solid middle income earners.
ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:01:38 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 721
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Buc wrote:
I see no reason Romney shouldn't pay the same tax I do rather than the 15%"

He does on his earned income, however, your 15 % rate (outdated) is the 2nd bite of the same apple. When he earned it it was taxed at the US Federal Tax rate of the time, then he invested that which was to his home disposable income, then when he has some dividends thrown off of that same money he is taxed again.

new higher capital gain tax rate of 20%" so that must make ya feel better, right?


I was referring to the carried income exception that allows hedge fund managers like Romney to have their income taxed as capital gains.

Romney had no money at risk, it was clearly not a capital gain and he certainly has not been taxed on that money before.

But what would I know about it? I am just the guy who retired at 40 after helping start and build a business that is now in the S&P500. I am just the guy who hired Bain to advise my business. And what a huge mistake that was, the advice they gave was utterly stupid.



ByronLord
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:08:42 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 721
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Buc wrote:
New Medicare Surtax Pursuant to IRC Section 1411: The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 added a new 3.8% Medicare Surtax on “net investment income.” This 3.8% Medicare surtax applies to taxpayers with “net investment income” who exceed threshold income amounts of $200,000 for single filers and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. Pursuant to IRC Section 1411, “net investment income” includes interest, dividends, capital gains, retirement income and income from partnerships (as well as other forms of “unearned income”).

This should make some feel better because the wealth creators are having to pay more.

100 percent of earned income is now taxed at a 2 % higher rate for those that have earned income up to $113 k. That tax increase is on the lower income earners to the solid middle income earners.


Just stop repeating the Faux News propaganda

A CEO IS NO MORE OF A WEALTH CREATOR THAN A TEACHER

It is completely fucking insulting to have these people that have never done a days work in their lives and live of the Koch brothers or Murdoch teat telling us all who are the wealth creators.

Obama was not referring to the companies people started when he said 'you didn't build that'. But guess what? That line polls real well because people are sick to death of being told by people who put in very little but take 90% of the rewards that nobody else does any work.

I don't shop at Walmart because I don't like the idea that I am subsidizing the owners by paying for food stamps and income support for a highly profitable business that won't pay a living wage. The Waltons are getting rich off my tax dollar subsidy which is bad enough. But they want the rest of us to be grateful to them and worship them for the wealth they are creating for themselves.



Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:09:59 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Did you vote for Obama?

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:11:24 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
100 percent of earned income is now taxed at a 2 % higher rate for those that have earned income up to $113 k. That tax increase is on the lower income earners to the solid middle income earners."

This is off of FOX, wow, and I thought I was on the IRS tax rate site.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:17:14 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 475,566
Carried interest constitutes on average about one-third of the payments that private equity GPs receive, and the management fee the remainder. Under current law, the management fee is taxed like wage and salary income, with a top income tax rate of 39.6 percent plsu 2.9 percent in Medicare taxes, whereas the carried interest is taxed as investment profit, which often faces a lower tax rate. In particular, any portion of the carried interest that represents qualified dividends or long-term capital gains of the fund is taxed at a top rate of 20 percent plus a 3.8 percent surtax. "

That capital put at risk by the GP's is taxed at a rate of 23.8 %, that is just not enough, now is it.
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