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Guantanamo... still open? Options · View
SITTING
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:45:13 AM

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Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/02/guantanamo-bay-prison-stain-america-reputation

Some of the detainees have been cleared for release since 2007. The majority of them should be home by now. Besides, I thought it was going to close in 2010.

So why is Guantanamo still open????



Check out my competition entry below!
LadyX
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:52:06 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
SITTING wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/02/guantanamo-bay-prison-stain-america-reputation

Some of the detainees have been cleared for release since 2007. The majority of them should be home by now. Besides, I thought it was going to close in 2010.

So why is Guantanamo still open????



Ask this asshole:




He's the one responsible for keeping it open. Here's his contact info: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

You know, it would be different if he'd promised to close that place when he ran for President...

Oh wait! He did promise that!

Obama's hypocrisy list is rather long, unfortunately.
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:16:56 AM

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Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Have to add in all the assholes in Congress who put language in the 2009 budget act prohibiting the use of any money to shut down guantanamo.

It passed with a veto-proof majority because the congress is scared to do anything that might be demagogued against them.

Ruthie
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:12:38 PM

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Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:



Obama's hypocrisy list is rather long, unfortunately.


It's growing longer everyday too.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:21:11 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,288
Location: Cakeland, United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


It's growing longer everyday too.


I am starting to detest him as much as his predecessor, but think of the even worse freak'n alternative we had to choose from too.

They have our tits in a wringer and our balls in a vice.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:25:05 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
WellMadeMale wrote:


I am starting to detest him as much as his predecessor, but think of the even worse freak'n alternative we had to choose from too.

They have our tits in a wringer and our balls in a vice.


Say what we want about George W. Bush, but at least he owned that shit. Twisted as it was, he bought into the whole neo-con "axis of evildoers" worldview. Misguided nitwit, yes, but at least he didn't grandstand on the senate floor about the ills of the war on terror before conducting said war with even more gusto than Dubya himself.

How the fuck did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? (same way Yasser Arafat won it, I guess...) What a worthless award that is.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:30:14 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,140
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Gawd, I love you people. Carry on.

ByronLord
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:37:01 PM

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Joined: 11/14/2010
Posts: 753
Location: Massachusetts, United States
LadyX wrote:
How the fuck did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? (same way Yasser Arafat won it, I guess...) What a worthless award that is.


He got it for the same reason that Henry Kissenger did. For being a slightly less murderous bastard than previously.

Ruthie
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2013 4:42:27 PM

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Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 2,348
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


Say what we want about George W. Bush, but at least he owned that shit. Twisted as it was, he bought into the whole neo-con "axis of evildoers" worldview. Misguided nitwit, yes, but at least he didn't grandstand on the senate floor about the ills of the war on terror before conducting said war with even more gusto than Dubya himself.

How the fuck did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? (same way Yasser Arafat won it, I guess...) What a worthless award that is.


George W. Bush had to campaign to the Republican base. Obama was campaigning to the Democratic base when he got the nomination and won the election. I think that he campaigned on some progressive positions that he doesn't really hold. When McCain and Romney ran against him, they had to campaign to the right also. Neither of them is nearly as right wing as their campaigning made them seem.

I know that it sounds paranoid and crazy, but I don't think any of these people have any real ideals at all. They are working for the people who own the country. They are going to do what the people who own the country want. The people were getting a little warmed up about Bush policies, and might have actually elected someone who would have changed things. They couldn't let that happen. Luckily they had Obama. Electing Obama helped the media paint the picture that we have freedom to choose. His election and reelection insured that we'd go on believing that the democratic process was actually working.

So far, I haven't seen any thing Obama has done that would have been done differently if a Republican had been in office. I never saw him as a progressive. The owners just aren't quite ready to let it all hang out and go full on fascist yet.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2013 10:17:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,140
Location: United States
CoopsRuthie wrote:


I know that it sounds paranoid and crazy, but I don't think any of these people have any real ideals at all. They are working for the people who own the country. They are going to do what the people who own the country want. The people were getting a little warmed up about Bush policies, and might have actually elected someone who would have changed things. They couldn't let that happen. Luckily they had Obama. Electing Obama helped the media paint the picture that we have freedom to choose. His election and reelection insured that we'd go on believing that the democratic process was actually working.

So far, I haven't seen any thing Obama has done that would have been done differently if a Republican had been in office. I never saw him as a progressive. The owners just aren't quite ready to let it all hang out and go full on fascist yet.


I don't think it sounds paranoid or crazy at all. In fact, I think more and more regular Americans are thinking the exact same way. I think that if we ever do see any kinds of rebellions of the populace against the government, it'll be because there are small, rural areas where there will be small pockets of people who will feel wholly disenfranchised, un-represented, and in need of making a real change for themselves, instead of just blindly allowing more talking suits to openly lie to them. I hope the people that make up the government wise up to this and actually start representing their constituents again, instead of just those special interests they're beholden to.

Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2013 4:54:37 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
LadyX wrote:


Ask this asshole:



Crock of shit.

Congress killed his shutdown effort. He made the mistake of promising something he couldn't be sure to deliver on, and congress slapped him with it. He could be clearing out detainees that have been cleared to go already, and that's totally on his head. But the fact Guantanamo is still open is on Congress' head alone.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 8:38:27 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Monocle wrote:


Crock of shit.

Congress killed his shutdown effort. He made the mistake of promising something he couldn't be sure to deliver on, and congress slapped him with it. He could be clearing out detainees that have been cleared to go already, and that's totally on his head. But the fact Guantanamo is still open is on Congress' head alone.


He's a hypocrite on this issue and many others, Congress or no Congress. You and I both know that he could unilaterally decide to clear that place out this afternoon if he wanted to. Congress should've forced the issue as well, and certainly shouldn't obstruct the issue, but I'm looking to the guy do what he said he'd do. He has not followed through with reversal of neo-con policies in deed or in spirit, at all. If he can't technically close the prison, he can take away its reason for being funded, then it's up to our fiscally conservative brethren to make an argument for funding and staffing an empty prison.

He'll never explain why he didn't do this either, same as he never explains much of anything. Transparent administration, my ass.



Monocle
Posted: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 8:42:12 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
LadyX wrote:

He's a hypocrite on this issue and many others, Congress or no Congress. You and I both know that he could unilaterally decide to clear that place out this afternoon if he wanted to.

He's partially hypocritical on this. I think he's been foolish, and could and should have forced the issue on those cleared for release a very long time ago. But no, it's bullshit that he could 'clear it out in an afternoon'. He's maintained the delusion that he can work with congress for 4 years longer than he should have, and has bent over more than backwards not to antagonize opponents who were antagonized before he swore in. _That_ is his primary flaw.


LadyX wrote:

He'll never explain why he didn't do this either, same as he never explains much of anything. Transparent administration, my ass.

No argument from me that he's not as transparent as I'd like him to be or as he's promised to be. I have cut him slack given the opposition party has openly declared that their #1 priority is defeat of any and all policies he holds - to the detriment of any and all other governing - but I'm tired of him seeking the middle way and want him to be more proactive in his second term.
CleverFox
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 2:09:31 AM

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Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 480
Location: United States
Monocle wrote:

No argument from me that he's not as transparent as I'd like him to be or as he's promised to be. I have cut him slack given the opposition party has openly declared that their #1 priority is defeat of any and all policies he holds - to the detriment of any and all other governing - but I'm tired of him seeking the middle way and want him to be more proactive in his second term.


To paraphrase George W. Bush from his debate with John Kerry when they were both asked what they felt was the biggest problem facing the country for this century and John Kerry answered with "Loose Nukes" and the best tha good ol' W could say was "What he said!"

WHAT HE SAID!
latinfoxy
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:16:24 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
Monocle wrote:

He's partially hypocritical on this. I think he's been foolish, and could and should have forced the issue on those cleared for release a very long time ago. But no, it's bullshit that he could 'clear it out in an afternoon'. He's maintained the delusion that he can work with congress for 4 years longer than he should have, and has bent over more than backwards not to antagonize opponents who were antagonized before he swore in. _That_ is his primary flaw.

No argument from me that he's not as transparent as I'd like him to be or as he's promised to be. I have cut him slack given the opposition party has openly declared that their #1 priority is defeat of any and all policies he holds - to the detriment of any and all other governing - but I'm tired of him seeking the middle way and want him to be more proactive in his second term.


This is exactly the same excuse everyone ever used on Chavez, "He is not at fault, he has been foolish, he is been misguided" you are the fucking president! if all of this things are true then you dont deserve to be the president, because obviously you are not strong or smart enough to be it. BUT the truth is that they know exactly what they are doing!

Also the other favorite excuse of Chavez was the mess the presidents before him made, i just wonder for how long can you blame the person before you, before it starts to be you that person?
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:49:04 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
latinfoxy wrote:

This is exactly the same excuse everyone ever used on Chavez, "He is not at fault, he has been foolish, he is been misguided" you are the fucking president! if all of this things are true then you dont deserve to be the president, because obviously you are not strong or smart enough to be it. BUT the truth is that they know exactly what they are doing!


Chavez? Don't make me laugh. Obama _is_ responsible for the actions he could have taken and didn't, and I said as much in the quote you cite. I _don't_ excuse him. for failing to act on Guantanamo now. But yeah, to blame him for the fact that the opposition party would rather shut down all government function see than him succeed - I can see how that's entirely his fault. WHat a fucking laugh riot.

Quote:
... i just wonder for how long can you blame the person before you, before it starts to be you that person?

As long as the damage they've inflicted is hurting people. What's hard about that?
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:07:31 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Obamas foreign policy is his, not Bush's. he owns it, and rightfully gets all blame and all credit. He did not open the Guantanamo prison, but he also can't hide behind congress when the question comes up: why are we still detaining "enemy combatants" there? There's nothing in the constitution that prevents him from acting on that without congressional approval.

The entire concept of "enemy combatant" outside of a traditionally declared war is the larger problem. Obama didn't start it, but he's continued and expanded this dark arm of US foreign policy. The republicans have done him no favors, but that doesn't excuse much of his administration's actions.

If liberals have any integrity, and I count myself as fairly liberal myself, they'll protest Obama's library just as they did for Bush's last month.
latinfoxy
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:39:26 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
Monocle wrote:

Chavez? Don't make me laugh. Obama _is_ responsible for the actions he could have taken and didn't, and I said as much in the quote you cite. I _don't_ excuse him. for failing to act on Guantanamo now. But yeah, to blame him for the fact that the opposition party would rather shut down all government function see than him succeed - I can see how that's entirely his fault. WHat a fucking laugh riot.


Im not saying he is like Chavez, im just pointing out the similarities that they use in the way to approach their failures in to actually doing what they promise to do. As they say Dont let your mouth write checks that your ass cant cash. He promised tons of things on his campaign and now that he actually cant deliver, then ill blame someone else, poor me they are not letting me be the president. crybaby

Quote:
As long as the damage they've inflicted is hurting people. What's hard about that?


So you dont look for a solution to the problem, you just let it as it is so you can keep blaming someone else? What a great way of thinking!

and just to clarify, im Venezuelan so i cant be Democrat or Republican, BUT if i were American i wouldnt be either!! i think both parties are just a big joke to the intelligence of Americans.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:43:18 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
LadyX wrote:


Ask this asshole:




He's the one responsible for keeping it open. Here's his contact info: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

You know, it would be different if he'd promised to close that place when he ran for President...

Oh wait! He did promise that!

Obama's hypocrisy list is rather long, unfortunately.


Wait a minute Lady X. He did run for Pres. saying he would close it. But got blocked from the Repub's.

http://youtu.be/-YPPFA4aIzo

In the next one...Obama signs legislation keeping Guantanamo open because of the party of 'No".

http://youtu.be/taBQkPt-55k

It wasn't Obama. It was the party of "NO". Most of the Obama agenda had to be scrapped because of two things...the economy was coming apart at the seems when he took office and that took precedence over his agenda. Also, the party of "No" got that moniker, not by accident.

LadyX
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:53:14 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Kristind wrote:


It wasn't Obama. It was the party of "NO". Most of the Obama agenda had to be scrapped because of two things...the economy was coming apart at the seems when he took office and that took precedence over his agenda. Also, the party of "No" got that moniker, not by accident.



None of that relates to Obama's authority to release or transfer those prisoners, which is independent of congressional pressure.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:12:31 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
LadyX wrote:
Obamas foreign policy is his, not Bush's. he owns it, and rightfully gets all blame and all credit. He did not open the Guantanamo prison, but he also can't hide behind congress when the question comes up: why are we still detaining "enemy combatants" there? There's nothing in the constitution that prevents him from acting on that without congressional approval.

The entire concept of "enemy combatant" outside of a traditionally declared war is the larger problem. Obama didn't start it, but he's continued and expanded this dark arm of US foreign policy. The republicans have done him no favors, but that doesn't excuse much of his administration's actions.

If liberals have any integrity, and I count myself as fairly liberal myself, they'll protest Obama's library just as they did for Bush's last month.


I don't disagree with anything you've said except maybe the library thing. P\THe entire concept of a presidential library has become silly in the modern era.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:19:52 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
latinfoxy wrote:

Im not saying he is like Chavez


Actually, yes you are:

latinfoxy wrote:
This is exactly the same excuse everyone ever used on Chavez.



Quote:
, im just pointing out the similarities that they use in the way to approach their failures in to actually doing what they promise to do. As they say Dont let your mouth write checks that your ass cant cash. He promised tons of things on his campaign and now that he actually cant deliver, then ill blame someone else, poor me they are not letting me be the president.


Pah. If I promise to work with my opponent to create solutions, and then my opponent decides they will do everything in their power to make sure no solution can happen, yeah, I'm at fault for too much optimism, but their destructive childishness is all their own, no matter what tantrum and mud they'd like to throw.

[quoteSo you dont look for a solution to the problem, you just let it as it is so you can keep blaming someone else? What a great way of thinking! [/quote]

Nice putting of words in someone else's mouth. And I can see how one might see the president as not trying to find solutions to the problem - if one were willfully ignorant of the last 4 years.

Quote:
and just to clarify, im Venezuelan so i cant be Democrat or Republican, BUT if i were American i wouldnt be either!! i think both parties are just a big joke to the intelligence of Americans.


Opinion noted.
latinfoxy
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:33:49 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
Monocle wrote:


If i compare that an apple and a pear are both fruits, am i saying that they both are the same? NO, i am comparing characteristics that both of them have in common! I dont think that Obama is a socialist, but i do think that they have more than a few characteristics in common.

LOL then he is a moron for ever even thinking that Republicans were gonna work with him and push all his agenda on. He was promising something he KNEW wasnt gonna ever happen. Its like if i promise right now all lushies are gonna donate money for the new server that we need, but i never asked anyone if they wanted to donate money, so when Ncola comes an say, give me the money ill cry and say they didnt want to participate, they are such a horrible people!!

How exactly do you know if im ignorant of the last 4 years of US politics? i hardly ever speak about other countries politics, so i wonder how could you know if im informed or not about them. Because i disagree with your point of view? great way of reading people!

Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:41:25 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
latinfoxy wrote:


If i compare that an apple and a pear are both fruits, am i saying that they both are the same? NO, i am comparing characteristics that both of them have in common! I dont think that Obama is a socialist, but i do think that they have more than a few characteristics in common.

LOL then he is a moron for ever even thinking that Republicans were gonna work with him and push all his agenda on...

How exactly do you know if im ignorant of the last 4 years of US politics? i hardly ever speak about other countries politics, so i wonder how could you know if im informed or not about them. Because i disagree with your point of view? great way of reading people!



Yeah, a politician is a moron to propose to work in good faith with his political opponents. What a fool.

I didn't say anyone was actually ignorant. I wasn't being that nice. I said if one could not see the president trying to find solutions with his opponents they would have to be _willfully_ ignorant.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:44:52 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 534,624
LadyX wrote:


None of that relates to Obama's authority to release or transfer those prisoners, which is independent of congressional pressure.


I don't know what power he has to simply stroke a pen and make this happen but there was so pressure and fake outrage that terrorists were going to be released and the others were going to be brought on American soil, put into American prisons, that there was no co-operation. With no co-operation the problem remains...I can stroke a pen but then what do we actually do with these terrorists.

Nothing these guys do is independent of congressional pressure. Congressional pressure never sleeps.
latinfoxy
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:51:00 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
Monocle wrote:


Yeah, a politician is a moron to propose to work in good faith with his political opponents. What a fool.


Yes when your views and your opponents views are completely different, you are a fool for thinking either of you are gonna change the way they think to cooperate with each other. Especially when politics in the US its such a money making franchise!

LadyX
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:59:12 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,827
Kristind wrote:


I don't know what power he has to simply stroke a pen and make this happen but there was so pressure and fake outrage that terrorists were going to be released and the others were going to be brought on American soil, put into American prisons, that there was no co-operation. With no co-operation the problem remains...I can stroke a pen but then what do we actually do with these terrorists.

Nothing these guys do is independent of congressional pressure. Congressional pressure never sleeps.


Correct. The willingness to bend to it hasn't slept in a long time either, sadly. Political courage isn't supposed to be easy. It's unfortunate to see the areas where our current president either doesn't have it or is unwilling to exercise it.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:00:49 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
latinfoxy wrote:

Yes when your views and your opponents views are completely different, you are a fool for thinking either of you are gonna change the way they think to cooperate with each other. Especially when politics in the US its such a money making franchise!


For most of the last couple centuries, opposing parties in this country have gotten beyond their divides to actually run the place. the last 4 years have been more unusually dysfunctional in that area than, I'd say, in the previous 40 or 50 or so.

But as you've described your level of familiarity with the US political system and history, I'm neither surprised nor moved by your opinions.
latinfoxy
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:09:28 PM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 816
Location: Here
Lol i neither want or need to move you. And again you are trying to say i dont know about politics just because my opinion defers from yours. If you ask me insulting someones inteligence in the think tank its the lamest way to disagree with someone.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:11:45 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 300
latinfoxy wrote:
And again you are trying to say i dont know about politics just because my opinion defers from yours. If you ask me insulting someones inteligence in the think tank its the lamest way to disagree with someone.


That's not at all what I've done, though I'm not surprised you've interpreted that way.
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