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IRS admits they deliberately harrassed Conservative groups Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:28:37 PM

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Quote:
The Internal Revenue Service “inappropriately flagged” conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status, a top IRS official said Friday.

Organizations were singled out because they included the words “tea party” or “patriot” in their applications for tax-exempt status, said Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups.

In some cases, groups were asked for their list of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases, she said.

“That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive and it was inappropriate. That’s not how we go about selecting cases for further review,” Lerner said at a conference sponsored by the American Bar Association.

“The IRS would like to apologize for that,” she added.



Quote:
An IRS spokeswoman said Friday that no disciplinary action has been taken against agency employees. She added that about 200 employees at the Cincinnati office were involved in the process.

Also, Lerner in her remarks noted that 75 of the 300 groups targeted for additional reviews were conservative. She claims none of them lost their tax-exempt status.

When asked later about this number, the IRS spokeswoman referred to the 75 conservative groups as “a quarter” of the total. When it was noted that this was incorrect, she replied: “I’m not good at math.”



Link.

sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:34:41 PM

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ok... was there a point to this? Think tank is about editorial discussion - in other words, make a statement for discussion, don't just put up an article. really, what are you looking for? was what happened wrong? by their own admission, yes - pretty sure you won't get anyone disagreeing with that.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 10:57:36 PM

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sprite wrote:
ok... was there a point to this? Think tank is about editorial discussion - in other words, make a statement for discussion, don't just put up an article. really, what are you looking for? was what happened wrong? by their own admission, yes - pretty sure you won't get anyone disagreeing with that.



So what do you think about agents of our government "stomping on people's rights?"

sprite
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:14:28 PM

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MrNudiePants wrote:



So what do you think about agents of our government "stomping on people's rights?"


i assume that's a retorical question? if you want a real answer, what happened was wrong. the IRS admitted it was wrong. an apology when out. an IRS spokeswoman said Friday that no disciplinary action had been taken. yet. pending, i am assuming, further investigation. i am not defending them. if the government had tried to cover this up, that would be one thing. obviously, they didn't. next.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:26:04 PM

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What about all the people that have been ridiculed for thinking that the government is simply getting too comfortable with overstepping their bounds? Could it be said that maybe those people have a right to fear an overbearing government?

Monocle
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:30:16 PM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
What about all the people that have been ridiculed for thinking that the government is simply getting too comfortable with overstepping their bounds? Could it be said that maybe those people have a right to fear an overbearing government?


I'm fully in support of anyone's right to fear anything they want to be afraid of. When the government outlaws fear, only outlaws will be afraid, and we can't have that.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:21:25 AM

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Various government agencies have been profiling groups for a long time. But it never bothers the average man until the profiling starts hitting home. LMFAO.
Jack_42
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 1:43:41 AM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
What about all the people that have been ridiculed for thinking that the government is simply getting too comfortable with overstepping their bounds? Could it be said that maybe those people have a right to fear an overbearing government?




Could this possibly be related to this never ending debate about gun control in the US? If so please get one or two of the probably numerous automatic weapons you own and launch an all out attack on the blood sucking members of the Department of Inland Revenue I'm sure everyone would applaud your action.
Ruthie
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 2:15:13 AM

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Why wouldn't the IRS flag organizations with the names, "Tea Party," or "Patriot," in their applications for tax exempt status. Both of these are names often used in political organizations, some tax exempt groups are prohibited from participating in politics if they are to maintain their tax exempt status. What were the other groups flagged? Were they political groups as well? There really isn't enough information here to make a case that the IRS was targeting conservative groups. Who were the other 225 groups that weren't conservative? Try to provide more facts.

elitfromnorth
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:12:49 AM

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CoopsRuthie wrote:
Why wouldn't the IRS flag organizations with the names, "Tea Party," or "Patriot," in their applications for tax exempt status. Both of these are names often used in political organizations, some tax exempt groups are prohibited from participating in politics if they are to maintain their tax exempt status. What were the other groups flagged? Were they political groups as well? There really isn't enough information here to make a case that the IRS was targeting conservative groups. Who were the other 225 groups that weren't conservative? Try to provide more facts.



I agree with this. What about the other 225 that weren't conservative groups? Did they have names like "Obama" or "Democratic" in their applications? Or is this another right wing martyrism? What's worse is how for instance the company that delivered the voting machines had a big "We support Bush" banner on their website, or how several African Americans weren't listed as voters during the 2004 and 2008 elections because they traditionally vote for the Democrats. THAT is a real threat, not just the IRS having an extra good look at a large amount of groups were "inappropriately flagged" and some of them happened to be conservative...

And isn't 75 out of 300 a quarter? 75 x 4 = 300...

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Buz
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:48:57 AM

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The IRS really dropped the ball all the way around on this one. The apology was good but every employee taking part in that conspiracy should be fired. It is an outrage that they have not been.

No group whatsoever should be singled out for such action whether they be conservative, liberal, or middle of the pack. The Federal government should do its due diligence to purge the IRS or any other government agency of anyone who would do such a thing.

And for that matter conservative groups have the same right as liberal groups to apply for tax-exempt status and deserve the same consideration. Anything else would be total discrimination. Discrimination comes from bigotry! Bigotry can work from either the right or the left! Bigotry should not be tolerated in any form! Unless stopped bigotry begets itself, grows into a cultural monster and you get something like the Spanish Inquisition, The Third Reich, or The Cultural Revolution. Freedom thrives in a culture of tolerance.

Kitanica
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:57:30 AM

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Sounds like groups that are known for being shady with money are being looked at more closely for not wanting to pay taxes with said money.

Were these superpacs by any chance? Or groups completely unassociated with politics? the IRS needs to look at all of them not just tea party ones. any group related to politics.
Buz
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 7:04:23 AM

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Kitanica wrote:
Sounds like groups that are known for being shady with money are being looked at more closely for not wanting to pay taxes with said money.

Were these superpacs by any chance? Or groups completely unassociated with politics? the IRS needs to look at all of them not just tea party ones. any group related to politics.


Actually it just seems like groups were singled out for their political views.

Superpacs are just as abundant for either left or right politically. I wouldn't mind that 100% of all superpacs get a special review. But unless that is done equally then it would not be right.

elitfromnorth
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 7:50:28 AM

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- From the excert in Nudiepants post it says that 75 out of the 300 were conservative groups. Meaning not all of them were conservatives, actually just a quarter were conservatie groups.
- This was not sanctioned by managers or a policy put in place, it was individuals, meaning for all we know it could be people with their own views making it harder for people they didn't like.

So once again the right wing cries "The IRS are after us!" when it's merely a few out of the many many people working in the IRS that abused their authority. Not everything HAS to be a big government conspiracy, it could just be a few fucktards in the same workplace, but there's paranoia for you.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Kitanica
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:10:52 AM

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Buz wrote:


Actually it just seems like groups were singled out for their political views.

Superpacs are just as abundant for either left or right politically. I wouldn't mind that 100% of all superpacs get a special review. But unless that is done equally then it would not be right.


I thought they were picked by having the word tea party or patriot.
Any group in politics related to money needs to be watched, picking a side or picking groups that have nothing to do with politics based on a title is just stupid. Superpacs especially regardless of affiliation.

I'm just curious if they were all political groups singled out or only a few of the 75.
Anyone could use the word patriot.
maybe there's a patriot cupcake shop or something.
Doesnt change anything but I'm just curious if this is only political groups.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:18:04 AM

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Buz wrote:
The IRS really dropped the ball all the way around on this one. The apology was good but every employee taking part in that conspiracy should be fired. It is an outrage that they have not been.


I think it humorous how there is usually some poor sacrificial lamb who will take the fall. Happens on both sides of the aisle all too often.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:54:01 AM

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Fundamentally, overreach is overreach, and abuse of power is abuse of power, no matter the perpetrator or the victim. This is not the first example nor will it be the last. This is a fairly rare example of the more conservative side being subject to this kind of profiling, but even that's not necessarily unique.

Government is, lest we forget, composed of people, and ideologies are bound to interfere occasionally, which is why it's incumbent upon the rest of us, right, left and center to watch and call out overreach - and not only when it happens to cross our favored ideologies.

And while this example is certainly one of overreach, to call it "Stomping on rights" would be a inaccurate at best.

That whole "75 is/is not a quarter of 300" is also hilarious. Since 75 is exactly a quarter of 300, I read the spokesperson's response as obvious sarcasm. I wonder who 'noted' that 75 being a quarter of 300 was incorrect. _There's_ a math genius for you.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:19:49 AM

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Buz wrote:
The IRS really dropped the ball all the way around on this one. The apology was good but every employee taking part in that conspiracy should be fired. It is an outrage that they have not been.

No group whatsoever should be singled out for such action whether they be conservative, liberal, or middle of the pack. The Federal government should do its due diligence to purge the IRS or any other government agency of anyone who would do such a thing.

And for that matter conservative groups have the same right as liberal groups to apply for tax-exempt status and deserve the same consideration. Anything else would be total discrimination. Discrimination comes from bigotry! Bigotry can work from either the right or the left! Bigotry should not be tolerated in any form! Unless stopped bigotry begets itself, grows into a cultural monster and you get something like the Spanish Inquisition, The Third Reich, or The Cultural Revolution. Freedom thrives in a culture of tolerance.


no. the ones who were an active part of it, perhaps, but not the poor guy who's told. hey, take a look into this file. that would be a restaraunt owner buying dog meat and serving it as hamburgers and then firing the waitress who brought the meal to the table. :)

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Ruthie
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:23:00 PM

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Buz wrote:
The IRS really dropped the ball all the way around on this one. The apology was good but every employee taking part in that conspiracy should be fired. It is an outrage that they have not been.



And for that matter conservative groups have the same right as liberal groups to apply for tax-exempt status and deserve the same consideration.


Yes, they deserve the same rights, but one of the rules is that organizations are not to use their tax exempt status to raise money to be used in political campaigns. There were 300 groups flagged, 75 of them, exactly 25%. Why did the story intimate that the math was wrong?

Why do conservative groups always want a free pass on rules and regulations that the rest of us have to follow? It's fine for them to be non-profit, but it's not fine for them to be tax exempt if they're political.

Ruthie
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:32:28 PM

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Kitanica wrote:


I thought they were picked by having the word tea party or patriot.
Any group in politics related to money needs to be watched, picking a side or picking groups that have nothing to do with politics based on a title is just stupid. Superpacs especially regardless of affiliation.

I'm just curious if they were all political groups singled out or only a few of the 75.
Anyone could use the word patriot.
maybe there's a patriot cupcake shop or something.
Doesnt change anything but I'm just curious if this is only political groups.


They were singled out for review as to their tax exempt status. There is a sound reason for singling out political groups who are applying for tax exempt status. Their non-profit status wasn't been reviewed, the review was to determine whether or not there were groups abusing their tax exempt status.

The article, on The Blaze, is full of obvious right wing talking points. Hidden away in the article is this, "Lerner stressed during her talk that the practice was not motivated by political bias." It is only conservatives that insist that it was.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:56:28 PM

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Would it be too much to request that the IRS devote 100% of their attentions to the Fortune 1000 corporations who are actively dodging as much taxation as they can by offshoring their head quarters and taking advantage of every loophole they can bribe the Congress to create for their behalf?

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
lynda3
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 1:08:10 PM

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Onesided babble pisses me off to no end. Left wing Right wing nuts ."but they did it worst" When are people going to figure out the We all need some changes that limit the power of some of these people. Example. Insider-tradeing is ok again for congress and their staff. Example - Affordable Care Act is get but not for us Senators and Congressmen. Example Unemployment is too high So change the calculations and do not count people if they run out of unemployment. Example We don't leave men behind --- really?
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 1:43:27 PM

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lynda3 wrote:
Onesided babble pisses me off to no end. Left wing Right wing nuts ."but they did it worst" When are people going to figure out the We all need some changes that limit the power of some of these people. Example. Insider-tradeing is ok again for congress and their staff. Example - Affordable Care Act is get but not for us Senators and Congressmen. Example Unemployment is too high So change the calculations and do not count people if they run out of unemployment. Example We don't leave men behind --- really?


...and this quote from WMM...Would it be too much to request that the IRS devote 100% of their attentions to the Fortune 1000 corporations who are actively dodging as much taxation as they can by offshoring their head quarters and taking advantage of every loophole they can bribe the Congress to create for their behalf?


I agree with both of you. But the only way to do this is by agreement and compromise. The execution of agreement and compromise seems to always fall to the moderates who are in back rooms making compromise and trying to find agreement. While they're at work, the talking points that gets all the news falls to the fringe of the parties...out of the mainstream. What we end up with are leaders who are too afraid to even take a moderate stand because that might not get them re-elected, now that the fringe has set the table. What we get are politicians who play a good game of tail chasing and meaningless patriotic talking points. They are all great Americans aren't they? Looking out for the welfare of America and Americans but too busy covering their ass.

I don't know how to do it but it seems that cases like this IRS problem, the Benghazi nightmare, Iran-Contra...I don't care which problem under whose administration...they are well disguised witch hunts. One political party trying to fry the other for....drum roll, please.....political gain and re-election. You know that we are going to endure an investigation and an investigation into the investigation.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 1:46:28 PM

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I get a kick out of people who defend the Washington petty dictators who are trying to change our country into a wonderland like nazi Germany or China. What happen is a government agency at the orders of the leader behaved like a state secret police agency. If you are a leftist and think "Big deal." think what would happen if things were run by another bunch of petty two bit dicators who didn't want any gays, or liberals, or if they (which they are now) run by big buisness and wanted anyone who owned a small business forced out, or if they wanted all unions, etc. Look at history. The old saying about Nazi Germany and Communists Russia. First they go after this group, that was ok, I didn't belong to that group. Then they go after another group. That is ok, I don't belong to that group. Then the go after my group. Now I complain?

sprite, you have to realize you are the type of individual who is willing to sell themselves into slavery by putting their head in the sand and saying "It won't happen to me. So what difference does it make?" First Washington has taken freedom of the press, working on taking freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, and now they intend to punish anyone who they believe is an enemy of the State. Not the Constitution or the people, but political enemies against letting them have a free hand. They want to be royalty and all others to be serfs. There is no difference between a Tsar and a Comazar or a Chairman and an Emperor or a commie, nazi, dictator of any type and a Middle Ages King. They all believe that the people do not have any rights.

But as long as people say "Well it won't happen to me, or it won't happen to my group." It Will.
Monocle
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 3:40:36 PM

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ScottFord wrote:
I get a kick out of people who defend the Washington petty dictators who are trying to change our country into a wonderland like nazi Germany or China.


I get a kick out of people who make up stories by pulling fictions out of their asses.

elitfromnorth
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 5:00:50 PM

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WellMadeMale wrote:
Would it be too much to request that the IRS devote 100% of their attentions to the Fortune 1000 corporations who are actively dodging as much taxation as they can by offshoring their head quarters and taking advantage of every loophole they can bribe the Congress to create for their behalf?


You've kinda answered your own question there. They can't go after the fortune 1000 corporations because thanks to the congress creating loopholes they are, legally, not doing anything wrong. Thing is that big companies like that has a problem if they break the law to such a degree that the government comes with a billion dollar tax claim on their arses. So instead, they spend ten million or so on accountants that are good at using the loopholes in existence to get off cheap like that.

First close the loopholes, THEN put the IRS on their arses. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to go after them if they have the law on their side, which they currently, don't.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:39:34 PM

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ScottFord wrote:
I get a kick out of people who defend the Washington petty dictators who are trying to change our country into a wonderland like nazi Germany or China. What happen is a government agency at the orders of the leader behaved like a state secret police agency. If you are a leftist and think "Big deal." think what would happen if things were run by another bunch of petty two bit dicators who didn't want any gays, or liberals, or if they (which they are now) run by big buisness and wanted anyone who owned a small business forced out, or if they wanted all unions, etc. Look at history. The old saying about Nazi Germany and Communists Russia. First they go after this group, that was ok, I didn't belong to that group. Then they go after another group. That is ok, I don't belong to that group. Then the go after my group. Now I complain?


hmm.... pretty sure we're not rounding up random groups of people and tossing them in jail. for the record, my stance was, this needs to be addressed and let's make sure not to simply fire anyone who has involved in any sort of why - if someone needs to be held accountable, let's make sure it's the person or people actively being discriminatory.

for the record, despite actively campaigning for Mr Obama and have a liberal stance, there are many things on his record that i have an issue with, starting with Guantanemo Bay, and reaching into Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some things he's done, or tried to do, i am 100% behind. Other things i'm deeply disappointed. Not as disappointed as i am about some of the current republican party's policies, but disappointed nonetheless.

by the way, i am very aware of how certain groups are targeted. i'm a woman. i'm gay. i grew up in a predominately black neighborhood, and my wife is a minority, Mexican-Filipino American on one side of her family - she could easily pass for Latino. :) trust me when i say that i have been very aware and active in regards to equal rights for most of my adult life. :)


ScottFord wrote:


sprite, you have to realize you are the type of individual who is willing to sell themselves into slavery by putting their head in the sand and saying "It won't happen to me. So what difference does it make?" First Washington has taken freedom of the press, working on taking freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, and now they intend to punish anyone who they believe is an enemy of the State. Not the Constitution or the people, but political enemies against letting them have a free hand. They want to be royalty and all others to be serfs. There is no difference between a Tsar and a Comazar or a Chairman and an Emperor or a commie, nazi, dictator of any type and a Middle Ages King. They all believe that the people do not have any rights.

But as long as people say "Well it won't happen to me, or it won't happen to my group." It Will.


obviously, you don't know me very well. we'll just leave it at that. :)

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/hardcore/west-coast-games-part-one-the-beach.aspx
Buz
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:10:49 PM

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sprite wrote:


no. the ones who were an active part of it, perhaps, but not the poor guy who's told. hey, take a look into this file. that would be a restaraunt owner buying dog meat and serving it as hamburgers and then firing the waitress who brought the meal to the table. :)


Right! The IRS has thrown the blame on low level employees. Is anyone really so stupid as to believe that? I've dealt with the IRS and other government agencies myself. Low level federal employees are not usually motivated to do much at all unless directed to do so by supervisors or department heads.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:31:38 PM

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CoopsRuthie wrote:
Why wouldn't the IRS flag organizations with the names, "Tea Party," or "Patriot," in their applications for tax exempt status. Both of these are names often used in political organizations, some tax exempt groups are prohibited from participating in politics if they are to maintain their tax exempt status. What were the other groups flagged? Were they political groups as well? There really isn't enough information here to make a case that the IRS was targeting conservative groups. Who were the other 225 groups that weren't conservative? Try to provide more facts.




The only way those groups matter is if they were singled out because of their goals, or ideological beliefs. We don't know who they are. We DO know that the IRS singled out at least 75 groups because of their political beliefs. That's not bothersome to you? If some of those other groups came forward and demonstrated a pattern of even more IRS malfeasance, we still shouldn't care who they were. What we should care about is the fact that the IRS was being used as a tool to do some shady business. Used by whom, how high up the orders came from, whether it truly was a local affair... we'll probably never know that, either. It could have been just as Lerner said. Or it may not have been.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:33:48 PM

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elitfromnorth wrote:


And isn't 75 out of 300 a quarter? 75 x 4 = 300...


This makes me even more suspicious of Lerner. Wouldn't someone who was on the up-and-up have stood by her math, instead of just agreeing with her naysayers, and hoping everything will just blow over?

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