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Chivalry? Options · View
Emerys
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:37:27 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/27/2013
Posts: 342
Location: United States
Yeah, it's mostly dead. I've witnessed it happening a few times (lol) by older guys, but guys my age? Pshaw. They're more likely to push a girl out of the way so they can take a seat on the train than let them have it, even if they're pregnant or wearing ten inch heels.

I was raised to believe that guys should treat girls like they're really special. Y'know, take them out to dinner, buy them nice things, open doors for them, etc. Some ingrained part of me relishes in being treated like a "princess", but for the most part I advocate equal adoration, commitment, and respect. In other words, alternating hosting dates (so a guy shouldn't make a fuss if a girl wants to take him out and pay for it), mutual random gift buying, mutual massages, shared cooking duties, etc.

If a guy wants to open doors for me then he can go right ahead. But he shouldn't get upset when I want to do the same for him.

Belthazor
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:22:46 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/8/2011
Posts: 253
Location: Florida, United States
I would like to state that for my part, chivalry lives on. I always hold doors for ladies (actually, I do that for everybody), pull out chairs and give up my seat. It's the gentlemanly thing to do, isn't it?

sprite
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:29:29 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,608
Location: My Tower, United States
i get great joy in holding doors open for anyone - it's just nice and it always makes people smile :)
Guest
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:30:31 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,189
Guest
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:37:06 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,189
Metilda wrote:
Hmm - I feel like I tolerate a lot of mannerisms in this regard - I don't feel flattered or pleased just because I'm not roadside or didn't pump my fuel.

Actions toward another that are defined by social customs aren't what would make me feel 'good' about myself - etc . . . it just makes me feel like we're all playing a role and nothing more.

You know - "thank you for walking on the outside - but I know we'd both get wet - however, since it's important to you and society dictates it be done, I appreciate you caring about what society think' . . . that's really how I feel about it. That's his role.

My role is to 'be polite and appreciative when he does so - even when I could care less that he's done so - because that's what society expects from me'

As a result: all the 'gentlemen behaviors' that my husband sticks to - I'm careful not to negate them in front of him . . . I save that for online forums. LOL

I think my lack of appreciation - concern, rather - is because it wasn't ingrained in me. I was raised with 2 sisters - not brothers. My parents never had to reiterate anything other than 'we're the minister's family - be courteous and polite at all times'

As a result: I applied my own meanings to things. I never considered my Dad driving to be a sign of anything. My Mom always said she had a bad back - so my Dad drove by default. Thus - my Dad pumped fuel at the gas station.

I grew up thinking that he did that only for HER - and that, in general, the driver just pumped fuel (aka: the driver was often male - males pumped fuel - but I never considered it that way). It caused a lot of problems in my marriage early on when my husband would do all those same things and I would say 'I'm perfectly capable of doing it for myself' - because I was not suffering from a bad back, as my Mom always stated.

One very negative thing that came with just going along with it all - I suddenly found myself without a husband to do all sorts of things for me, he was deployed, and I had to sort it out for myself OR take help from teh rednecks down the street.

Yeah I don't think so - I sorted it all out by myself. I eventually learned how to do anything and everything he did.

When he fell ill - with bouts of dizziness - and wasn't able to drive anymore I had a hard time driving him around without being rattled with nerves. After 8 years of marriage actually driving him felt like driving my Dad around when he was teaching me - I was sick to my stomach. LOL . .. but I got over that, too.

Treat someone like a frail flower and they'll eventually wilt like a dead flower.


Your view is confusingly narrow and frankly, "ungenerous."

You ascribe motives to helpful people that aren't common.

Life is hard, merciless and ugly: just get plunked down in the desert (or the city) without resources and find out how quickly you need the kindness of others. My husband isn't kind to others because he feels he has a role to play, he does it because he wants to help people. Accepting help doesn't make me weak; I know full well I can do it, I got myself through two colleges without any money to speak of and now have no trouble at all being a corporate VP and exercising authority given to me...I feel empowered enough to do whatever I set my mind to. But civility, kindness and generosity make life better physically and mentally for everyone. Want to feel better about your life? Volunteer! Tired of being kicked around by corporate greed and faceless entities? Then make life better for any one person around you!

Always be respectful and helpful, always give without expecting in return, simply because we need civilization to be civilized. If everyone did it, life would be safe and wonderful and kind. Chivilry is being respectful of others; recognizing their intrinsic value, not performing expectations.

Minister's daughter? "Let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself." "Do unto others as you would have done to you." "He who would be first among you, let him serve."
Emerys
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:12:22 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/27/2013
Posts: 342
Location: United States
sprite wrote:
i get great joy in holding doors open for anyone - it's just nice and it always makes people smile :)


Same here. I'm always opening door for people and my friends/family constantly tell me that I shouldn't be such a pushover. It's not about being a "pushover", though. It's about being polite. I absolutely love that such a simple act like holding a door open for someone can bring a genuine smile to their face. It's awesome.

ETA: Ooh, another complaint I get from them is that I'm being "too nice". Apparently opening doors for people constitutes as being too nice these days. Unsurprising, really.



Guest
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:48:31 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,189
Sad to admit, but I think it's dying. My grandma had a lot of influence on my upbringing and teaching of manners. Similar to some of lurkers comments. I had to walk kerb side on the pavement to protect the lady, open car doors, etc, and if in school uniform and I didn't give up my seat to a lady or older person, look out, sure fire detention for a week. I belt my kids bums, if they are disrespectful to anyone.
Metilda
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:57:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/10/2013
Posts: 748
Location: United States
Guest wrote:


Your view is confusingly narrow and frankly, "ungenerous."

You ascribe motives to helpful people that aren't common.

Life is hard, merciless and ugly: just get plunked down in the desert (or the city) without resources and find out how quickly you need the kindness of others. My husband isn't kind to others because he feels he has a role to play, he does it because he wants to help people. Accepting help doesn't make me weak; I know full well I can do it, I got myself through two colleges without any money to speak of and now have no trouble at all being a corporate VP and exercising authority given to me...I feel empowered enough to do whatever I set my mind to. But civility, kindness and generosity make life better physically and mentally for everyone. Want to feel better about your life? Volunteer! Tired of being kicked around by corporate greed and faceless entities? Then make life better for any one person around you!

Always be respectful and helpful, always give without expecting in return, simply because we need civilization to be civilized. If everyone did it, life would be safe and wonderful and kind. Chivilry is being respectful of others; recognizing their intrinsic value, not performing expectations.

Minister's daughter? "Let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself." "Do unto others as you would have done to you." "He who would be first among you, let him serve."


Confusing. Yes, that's a good way to say it. It's confusing to be a girl raised by people who hold to those beliefs but make no effort to explain them. I had to apply my own meanings - and look where that led.

But there's a huge difference between people being helpful when true help is needed (you get a flat tire and so someone helps you out) and gender based etiquette (pumping gas for you).

I would hope that when true help is needed it wouldn't matter what gender someone is.


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TonyT
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:12:11 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 195
Location: PA - OH - WV - FL- NorCAl, United States
buttercup2u wrote:
I love when a man opens a door for me or offers me a seat on the bus or pulls out my chair for me at a restaurant. It tells me that he sees me as person, as well as giving me an idea about how his father treated his mother. All too often these days, women are treated as property to be used, instead of a person to be respected and loved and cherished. Of the flip side of that coin a woman's respect for the other person. Her reaction tells me about how her mother treated her father. Does she smile and say thank you, or does she just walk through the door?
I think that any woman who is offended by the show of respect by a man opening a door or pulling out a chair should perhaps ask herself what kind of values would she like society to have, one where it is every man (or woman) for himself, or one where people respect and care for eachother. We as adults, often don't realize how much we have learned from our parents, and in turn how much our children learn from us. It is something that we should be more aware of, I believe.


Agreed! A kind smile and a helpful hand go a long way. I wish everyone would just try to make someone else smile once a day. It should be contagious!

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SensualDesire
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 11:07:31 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/14/2013
Posts: 624
Location: United Kingdom
I love chivalry in a man. It says a lot about his upbringing. To open a door, pull out a chair, help a lady put on her coat, it's wonderful. The true sign of a gentleman.
Sadly I don't think there will be very many chivalrous men left as you don't see very much of it being taught in our younger generation of today. Manners seem to be disappearing fast.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 12:39:50 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,189
Chivalry is the cowboy way of life and standard. It should not be unusual to see a man open or hold a door for a lady no matter what her age. A real man should be confident enough in himself to be what he was created to be a protector. provider, and lover for his lady. He should do everything he can to show his lady how he feels, even by doing things maybe others have long forgotten. Honestly for me it has always come naturally to open a door for a lady, to pay for dinner, or an ice cream, even to the extent if we are shopping and finds something she really likes, its not unusual for me to either buy it for her right then or make an excuse and circle back and buy it without her knowing and surprising her later. If I am out with a lady and didnt bring her flowers I am sure to stop at the first place i come to run in buy her some and surprise her. Random surprises are sometimes even better. Chivalry isnt dead but I would say its becoming less obvious and lived out in our world.
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