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Lecturer shagging uni student, taboo or no? Options · View
DanielleX
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:32:38 PM

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So, quite a heated debate in our house today. My gf reckons that it's totally OK for a lecturer to go to bed with his or her student if they are 18+ I say it's still wrong because they are in his/her care. Does anyone KNOW if it is actually illegal or not? If it's not illegal, which I doubt - does it still qualify as taboo?

I don't know any lawyers and don't trust Google as far as I could pee.
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Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 3:25:02 PM

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In most states, as far as I know, it's illegal for teachers to have sex with their students. I don't know about the legality of sex between college instructors/lecturers and students, or if state laws would apply to private institutions, but it would at least be considered unethical. I'm not sure that the fact that the sex partners in a story are student and teacher would be taboo. Student/teacher sex on the university level is one of my favorite themes and fantasies, or themes for fantasies. I don't want to be promoting age inappropriate sex at the secondary level though. Even though Lush allows stories with sixteen year old characters, I don't really enjoy the ones where one of the characters is an adult. They situation is usually exploitative, and something that seems creepy to me. I like stories about sex between two sixteen year old's fine though. We usually consider college age people to be adults, they are starting out life on their own, and are entitled to the perks of adulthood, although they are usually denied them, but also have the responsibility of adulthood to think for themselves.
Dani
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 3:53:36 PM

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Taboo? Sort of. But not illegal, neither is it wrong. Things are different at a college level. It's frowned upon, but it's not illegal. Once a college instructor gets tenured, they can get away with just about anything. I've seen situations where professors and students openly date. It's really not that big of a deal from a legal standpoint.

As far as ethics go, I don't see the big deal there either. You like each other and you're both consenting adults, I say go for it. The only way it's wrong is when one party is being taken advantage of.

And a college student is not under any sort of 'care' of the professor whatsoever. That's malarkey.



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principessa
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 4:03:02 PM

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I believe that although it is not illegal, at most colleges and universities a professor/lecturer carrying on with a student would be considered unprofessional conduct. There are multiple reasons for this: the duty of care, the power differential, and the possibility of bias. So, while they may be consenting adults strictly speaking, this is not a relationship of equals and is generally frowned upon.

Think about it. It opens the doors to all kinds of problems especially if it goes wrong. Allegations of sexual harassment. Allegations of unfair treatment/marking because of the sexual relationship or its end. Not a good idea.

MadMartigan
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 4:44:35 PM

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slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:
Taboo? Sort of. But not illegal, neither is it wrong. Things are different at a college level. It's frowned upon, but it's not illegal. Once a college instructor gets tenured, they can get away with just about anything. I've seen situations where professors and students openly date. It's really not that big of a deal from a legal standpoint.

As far as ethics go, I don't see the big deal there either. You like each other and you're both consenting adults, I say go for it. The only way it's wrong is when one party is being taken advantage of.

And a college student is not under any sort of 'care' of the professor whatsoever. That's malarkey.


Vehemently disagree, but only in certain respects. Professors are in a position of authority over the student. If the student in question, is a student in your class, and is a student repeatedly in your class, there is definitely a possible violation of ethics, and eve bad, particularly from a legal standpoint you could argue.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to get involved in that. With what has happened at Penn State, I don't think schools will be as casual in sweeping such things under the rug. Just invites troubles.

When you're sleeping with your student(s), it calls into question trading sex for grades, unintentional leniency of grading, fudging scores if the girl/guy isn't putting out, cheating, etc, etc. It can be a hot mess. Even worse, you choose the student you're fucking for a glowing recommendation when you have a student with far better credentials getting passed up...because you get your dick wet by the other student.


Now, if that student isn't even in the same school as you (say, she's in the school of journalism, he's in the school of economics) I don't think there's as much issue. There is, however, if the professor can cause you grief with other faculty etc.


So, to the point. It's a dumb fucking thing to do in my opinion.
Oralismoral
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 5:42:15 PM

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No
Dani
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 5:47:03 PM

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MadMartigan wrote:


Vehemently disagree, but only in certain respects. Professors are in a position of authority over the student. If the student in question, is a student in your class, and is a student repeatedly in your class, there is definitely a possible violation of ethics, and eve bad, particularly from a legal standpoint you could argue.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to get involved in that. With what has happened at Penn State, I don't think schools will be as casual in sweeping such things under the rug. Just invites troubles.

When you're sleeping with your student(s), it calls into question trading sex for grades, unintentional leniency of grading, fudging scores if the girl/guy isn't putting out, cheating, etc, etc. It can be a hot mess. Even worse, you choose the student you're fucking for a glowing recommendation when you have a student with far better credentials getting passed up...because you get your dick wet by the other student.


Now, if that student isn't even in the same school as you (say, she's in the school of journalism, he's in the school of economics) I don't think there's as much issue. There is, however, if the professor can cause you grief with other faculty etc.


So, to the point. It's a dumb fucking thing to do in my opinion.


There's a difference between molestation and two CONSENTING adults. Of course the lecturer, being in charge of a grade, does hold a certain amount of power. But if there's coercion involved (i.e. suck my dick or I give you a C), all the student has to do is tell someone, and it will be dealt with accordingly. So in all actuality, the student holds more power in this situation.

But when it's between two adults who are interested in a relationship, at any length, be it casual or just fuck buddies, I see no issue.
And sure, other blips may be involved. But the question was: Is it taboo or illegal?

My answers: Taboo? Yes, to a certain extent. Illegal? No.

If both parties consent to it, both parties assume full responsibility of the outcome. But that's with any relationship. It has its pros and cons. Ethics may come into play, but that's an extremely gray area, and that stuff just has to be taken in stride because it comes along with the territory. As with any relationship, if you can't handle it, then you don't need to get into it.

The thing is, people do what they want anyway, so as wrong as some may think it is, there's really nothing you can do but watch it all unfold.

Sure it's dumb if you can't handle it. But people do dumb shit everyday. Professors and students aren't exempt.





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MadMartigan
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:32:49 PM

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Still, there's a clear power difference.

I'd feel the same for a CEO/Manager/Etc dating someone way down on the totem pole.

It can descend into illegal actions and worse.

I'd argue it is more than taboo. Again, I only say that when the professor actually has the student in their class when they are actually dating or having a sexual relationship.

If they are in completely different schools in the university, I don't really care and wouldn't really say it is taboo.
elitfromnorth
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:47:32 PM

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Shagging a student from a different faculty is not all that bad imo, especially if it's because there's nothing to be gained from either of them doing it.

But should the student be one of the professor's students then I think he should at least get the sack. There's an unnatural attraction of the whole authority thingy. It's too close and the professor would need some serious backbone to avoid giving benefits to his little fucktoy. It's human nature.

It's something else when you have the professor in the position as a lecturer. With him/her standing there as the authority person on what you study there's an attraction to the power. Pretty much the same as a doctor screwing his 30 yo patient. There's no way of saying with 100 percent certainty that there's no abuse of power in the situation.

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Buz
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:21:57 PM

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In most universities and colleges to have sex with one's student breaks the rules of their employment contract and is considered unethical conduct, therefore grounds for being fired. But its not a criminal charge.

In some US states it is illegal for a teacher to have sex with a high school student. That covers ages 16-18, which would not fall under the category of statutory rape.

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Rembacher
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:46:46 PM

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It's definitely unethical, but I'm not sure if it is illegal. I don't think you would ever see someone charged for it up here, but statutory rape has been defined broadly enough to include people using their status/position over someone else for sex. In this case, if a professor prepositions a student for sex, while that student is active in his or her class, can the student actually say no without fear of repercussions? So much of the grading in a university setting is subjective, and hard to prove that you are being unfairly treated.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:14:08 PM

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If they are consenting adults then I don't find anything wrong with it. If it's to help pass the class then it's definitely wrong.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 10:10:37 PM

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I hesitate to say whether it is right or wrong, and I don't believe it is illegal (although some states may have something on their books)...however...nearly any university in America would deem it a cause for termination, whether the student be in their class or not. I had two friends in college that were dating lecturers and both of them tried very hard to keep it hush hush. In both cases, the instructors were young and not tenured or anywhere near tenure. I imagine that wouldn't make a difference. In the end, I can't blame them...they were good couples...Ssshhhhhh...
kputt6912
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:52:55 PM

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As long as she 18 and consenting its good to go!;)
nil4sin
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 12:47:54 AM

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DanielleX
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 1:55:01 PM

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So the consensus is that it's not illegal but highly questionable. I guess if the age difference isn't too big and the lecturer isn't actually HER lecturer it's sort of OK.

I'm surprised it's not illegal as I still think the lecturer has a duty of care, no matter what you say.

What's an interesting corollary to this is: what if she's a mature student, say 35 and the lecturer is 30. Would that change people's opinion?





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principessa
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 2:12:41 PM

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Not at all. The power difference, duty of care, perception of bias and all the complications that this would cause remain the same. As well, the prohibition in most university employment contracts or rules of professional conduct would not make an exception for a mature student.

lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 2:12:57 PM

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DanielleX wrote:
So the consensus is that it's not illegal but highly questionable. I guess if the age difference isn't too big and the lecturer isn't actually HER lecturer it's sort of OK.

I'm surprised it's not illegal as I still think the lecturer has a duty of care, no matter what you say.

What's an interesting corollary to this is: what if she's a mature student, say 35 and the lecturer is 30. Would that change people's opinion?



This brings up a good point. It's nearly impossible to legislate morality. If everyone is of legal and consenting age, it's hard to make laws that say sex in one regard such as this is illegal, but not in another way. It's ok for an 18 yr old to sleep with a 30 year old. But not if the older person is his/her teacher/professor/minister/boss. It's more ok if the 30 year old is the subordinate.

Businesses and colleges can and should make rules for employees that make it against company policy. You won't go to jail for fucking a student/employee but you will lose your job.

Anyone of legal age that consents to sex, without any form of coercion or blackmail or demands, should never be criminally held for fucking someone willing. Things get way too muddy when sexual consent has so many variations on what is and isn't legal.





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crazydiamond
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 2:42:01 PM

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I'm a mature Student at university, I'm 36 , my tutor is 7 months younger. Does that change things? I don't need any type of "care" from my tutor he is simply my teacher of a certain set of skills. Does that change opinion?

I'm not saying either is correct and I agree with duty of care for young students. It's down to the individuals at the end of the day.

It's not the fucking that's the problem, it'd the consequences of fucking.

The point being, in my opinion, if shit went pear shaped, and his duty of being able to teach me and aide me in my education without bias or he became all pissy, that would definitely be a huge concern.

I would not go there, tuition costs enough, I'd rather education without that extra fee thanks.

bunny

Ruthie
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 2:43:57 PM

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Being a student in a classroom competing for grades with a student having sex with the instructor is pretty awful, especially if it's a small class and there are likely to be only one or two A's.
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 3:36:47 PM

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CoopsRuthie wrote:
Being a student in a classroom competing for grades with a student having sex with the instructor is pretty awful, especially if it's a small class and there are likely to be only one or two A's.


How do you compete for grades? Your work should stand alone and be graded as is. A correct answer on a test or correct analysis of a story or whatever is right regardless of who is banging whom. Shouldn't the number of A's be dependant on the number of A worthy work turned in?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Nikki703
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 4:26:22 PM

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crazydiamond wrote:
I'm a mature Student at university, I'm 36 , my tutor is 7 months younger. Does that change things? I don't need any type of "care" from my tutor he is simply my teacher of a certain set of skills. Does that change opinion?




As far as I know it is legal ( at least in the US) as long as both are of legal age. But is it ethical? Many schools have a policy against relationships between teacher and students. Since the teacher is a position of authority over the student and determines the students grade in the class, this can get very tricky.

As for CD's situation, I have a question. You say TUTOR. Here in the states a tutor is someone who teaches you but in no way has any control of your grade in the class. Is that the same in the UK? If so, then I see nothing wrong if you were to have a relationship. If the tutor does control your grade, then the same ethical dilemma exists.

You know if a student is in a relationship with a teacher, regardless if the ages are 18 and 40 or 35 and 36, the students grade in the class will be brought into question. Someone will assume the student did well because of the relationship and not because he/she earned the grade.

lafayettemister wrote:


How do you compete for grades? Your work should stand alone and be graded as is. A correct answer on a test or correct analysis of a story or whatever is right regardless of who is banging whom. Shouldn't the number of A's be dependant on the number of A worthy work turned in?


This is true, but how do you know the Teacher didn't give the Student the answers to the exam questions before the exam? You know someone will think that is the case.
Ruthie
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:19:10 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:


How do you compete for grades? Your work should stand alone and be graded as is. A correct answer on a test or correct analysis of a story or whatever is right regardless of who is banging whom. Shouldn't the number of A's be dependant on the number of A worthy work turned in?


At most colleges and universities. Instructors are encouraged to use the bell curve, an equal number of A's and F's, an equal number of B's and D's, and the bulk of the class get C's. This is especially true of those with tenure track positions. No one working toward tenure can afford to be handing out nothing but A's, the department head won't like it. Tenured professors can pretty much do as they please, but most of them grade on curves too. If there is one A and one F, the person screwing the instructor doesn't have to worry so much about being the F.
CleverFox
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 9:11:56 PM

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Illegal? No.

Ethical? How could the lecturer ever prove there was no quid pro quo? Sex for good grades or sex for not flunking the student.

It looks bad no matter how you slice it.
crazydiamond
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:44:00 PM

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Nikki703 wrote:
As for CD's situation, I have a question. You say TUTOR. Here in the states a tutor is someone who teaches you but in no way has any control of your grade in the class. Is that the same in the UK?

.


Sorry for the confusion, by Tutor, I mean Lecturer, that's just what we call them.

Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 12:58:21 AM

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Abelard was Heloise's tutor. Look how well that turned out.
Jack_42
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 3:01:14 AM

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Oh for god's sake this is a site dedicated to sex I can't believe all the morality I'm seeing. Let's not be naive here.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:21:05 PM

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kputt6912 wrote:
As long as she 18 and consenting its good to go!;)


Tell us all about it, Professor. I mean...just in your experience.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:24:11 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:


How do you compete for grades? Your work should stand alone and be graded as is. A correct answer on a test or correct analysis of a story or whatever is right regardless of who is banging whom. Shouldn't the number of A's be dependant on the number of A worthy work turned in?


You never went to university, did you...?

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
beowulf69
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:47:48 PM

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Why do all the dog ugly professors teach at my community college? I bet they can't even get shagged at home.

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