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Pope Francis on Gays - "Who am I to judge?" Options · View
VanGogh
Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 10:15:10 PM

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Since the abortion debate is like beating a dead horse .... refreshing news of the day from the current Pope.

Quote:
Pope Francis said Monday that he will not "judge" gays and lesbians - including gay priests - signaling a shift from his predecessor and offering another sign that the new pope is committed to changing the church's approach to historically marginalized groups.

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis said in a wide-ranging news conference aboard the papal plane.

Though he was answering a question about the so-called "gay lobby" at the Vatican, the pope indicated a change in tone, if not in teaching, in the church's stance towards gays and lesbians more generally.


How do you think this is going to go over with the masses (haha, good pun, but you know what I mean)?

Are times a-changing, or will the church revert back to their "gay is sin" stance?

What are your thoughts?

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Guest
Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:30:22 PM

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I see it as an apologetic, "hey, we all make mistakes, right?." You bugger people, we bugger people, lets not focus on semantics.
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:35:09 AM

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PersonalAssistant wrote:
Since the abortion debate is like beating a dead horse .... refreshing news of the day from the current Pope.



How do you think this is going to go over with the masses (haha, good pun, but you know what I mean)?

Are times a-changing, or will the church revert back to their "gay is sin" stance?

What are your thoughts?


I like that this guy is less regal in his reign as pope, at least so far. In the eyes of the Catholic church, homosexuality IS a sin and probably always will be. But Pope Francis seems to be someone who believes in the theory of "hate the sin, not the sinner". To me a gay priest is no different from a straight priest, they've taken vows of celibacy so it shouldn't matter.

Hopefully the rest of the church will follow his lead of "who am I to judge". If HE can't judge then neither should anyone else.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
MadMartigan
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:22:38 AM

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The cynical journalist in me says, only those who say they don't judge are judging you as they say it.

The optimist says he may be the first decent pope since John Paul II.

Not that I care about Catholicism or anything. Or religion much either.

I will say, words are easy. We'll see if that's backed up by actions next.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:46:38 AM

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he is just doing what his 'Boss" would have done.... he seems to be a good , honorable man
Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:35:23 PM

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Cardinals are already explaining that he didn't actually mean it. How long before we hear him say he didn't mean it exactly as he said it?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:52:05 PM

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Well, considering hindsight is 20/20, I guess the devout can wait, and wait, and wait, and...well, you get get my drift.
redheadnicole
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:24:43 PM

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I love his stance on this and i agree with lafrayettemister. I also agree that people will still go on beliveing that being gay is a sin. I belive that, and i am bisexual... but like lafraylettemister said i i think he is approaching this as ' hate the sin, not the sinner.' Which a agree with 100%
VanGogh
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:04:57 PM

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I am not a religious person – I am a hopeful person.

My thoughts on the Pope’s comment(s) encompasses more than just “who am I to judge?” Nice thought that LM has – “hate the sin, not the sinner” … but I believe that it is really much more than that. Note - Hate is such a negative and unproductive word in this case.

The mere fact that this “Pope of the People” is steering such a large ship in this direction, is hopeful!

The world has a great amount of religious people (apparently there is an estimated 1.2 billion Catholics in the world [ 34% ]; 23% of the world holds the Muslim faith, 14% are Hindus, and 30% are non-religious, other & Buddhists), who atone to books, scriptures, and various teachings of the “messengers of god”, etc. It has also been the “religious” people (mainly men) who have held high-ranking governing offices throughout the world, and hold close at hand, other religious members that are in the courts that assist in dictating enforceable laws (see the Opinion on Abortion thread here in the Think Tank).

My hope is that, when a person so high up in their religion (as the Pope, in this case) that speaks to the masses (billions of common-folk people), that expressed “who am I to judge?” that they lead by example to their followers, and to people in general; to have compassion with others, a hope for equality, a shift in society’s thought that sexual orientation no longer matters and is irrelevant to a person being a good, caring, nurturing and compassionate PERSON.

One day, may we find a world that judges not who you are because of your gender, your sexual orientation or your race – but wherein accepts you as you are; as a human that flourishes with love, encouragement and acceptance.

Ruthie wrote:
Cardinals are already explaining that he didn't actually mean it. How long before we hear him say he didn't mean it exactly as he said it?


I saw that ... :(

Quote:
CNN - Rather than a change in doctrine, the pope's "brief remarks were about mercy," Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York said. "The church considers unjust discrimination against any homosexual a sin," the archbishop said, adding that "homosexual acts, which are contrary to Revelation...can always be healed by God's mercy."

"And when God’s mercy is sought, it is always given, the sin wiped away and forgotten; because of this, nobody — not the Pope, not a bishop, not a priest — can judge another!"


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Agrippa
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:33:14 PM

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It's not often I agree 100% with a high-ranking religious figure, but in this case I do...

...who is he to judge? Or anyone else come to that.
orcbattalion
Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:36:44 PM

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Well, as a recovering catholic and after spending half my life in that-it is huge in my opinion. This new pope seems like he really gets what it means that everyone is not perfect and respect (whether you agree or not) is something that is earned. Why should a lifestyle choice (unless it hurts others) keep someone from their faith? For the pope to answer as open and non-political as he did is refreshing. Maybe our politicians should look at his handling of this question and answer and take note?
1ball
Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2013 10:40:55 PM

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I really doubt that the Church will ever "bless" homosexuality for the simple reason that homosexuals don't produce many children and children are the main recruitment pool for new members. But recruits aren't the only thing the Church needs. It also needs contributions. It will change its tone according to a prediction of positive impacts on funding. So this Pope might have tested the waters with a "judge the act, not the actor" position, which would be practicing what the Church preaches anyway.

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BelleduJour
Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2013 11:36:53 PM

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MadMartigan wrote:
The cynical journalist in me says, only those who say they don't judge are judging you as they say it.

The optimist says he may be the first decent pope since John Paul II.

Not that I care about Catholicism or anything. Or religion much either.

I will say, words are easy. We'll see if that's backed up by actions next.


I understand your sentiments, however, for a such a high profile religious leader like Pope Francis to go on record and speak so openly and honestly about homosexuality IS a BIG deal! Most have either taken the predictable stance that homosexuality is a sin and a one-way ticket straight to hell or they've skirted around the subject never giving an independent thought of their own.

As a fallen Catholic, I've struggled with my faith mainly because of the church's hard and narrow-minded stand on such things as birth control, abortion, gay marriage, women being priests, priests allowed to get married and of course, homosexuality. I now finally find myself very hopeful that this is a sign of better things to come and that Pope Francis shows tremendous promise and great potential to quite possibly 'save' Catholicism.

BUT if there is anything I've learned about being Catholic and the Catholic church is that they are VERY slow to change. Realistically speaking, I don't think anything earth shattering will change in MY lifetime but that doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this milestone moment however itty bitty it may be.

Icarus32
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 1:06:27 AM

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Change touches all things eventually. This could be the first steps down a new path, or it could simply be the opinion of one man. Time will tell.
1ball
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 4:57:39 PM

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BelleduJour wrote:
I understand your sentiments, however, for a such a high profile religious leader like Pope Francis to go on record and speak so openly and honestly about homosexuality IS a BIG deal! Most have either taken the predictable stance that homosexuality is a sin and a one-way ticket straight to hell or they've skirted around the subject never giving an independent thought of their own.


He hasn't said that being gay isn't a sin or isn't a ticket to hell. Either would be a big deal. He's only said that it isn't his place to judge, which is standard dogma. He's left the standard dogma on homosexuality unsaid, which is like giving himself the option to go either way. I wouldn't call that a very big deal.

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VanGogh
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 5:04:35 PM

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1ball wrote:
He hasn't said that being gay isn't a sin or isn't a ticket to hell. Either would be a big deal. He's only said that it isn't his place to judge, which is standard dogma. He's left the standard dogma on homosexuality unsaid, which is like giving himself the option to go either way. I wouldn't call that a very big deal.


To each his own ... who am I to judge your opinion? happy8

The hopefuls are hopeful ... and change has to start somewhere! flower

A Milf series combined with Office Sex *fans face* .... The Secretary and The Student
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Enjoy!!

For the Anal Lovers .... come enjoy my RR honoured An Alluring Ass

Another Sex in the Office Poem (I know you love those!!) In Your Office

BelleduJour
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 6:40:03 PM

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1ball wrote:


He hasn't said that being gay isn't a sin or isn't a ticket to hell. Either would be a big deal. He's only said that it isn't his place to judge, which is standard dogma. He's left the standard dogma on homosexuality unsaid, which is like giving himself the option to go either way. I wouldn't call that a very big deal.


I understand that but for such an important and high profile religious figure to say that HE has no right to judge another person IS a pretty big deal. I don't know what churches you've been to but all the ones I've been into, Catholic or not (and there have been many over the years in my quest to reunite with my faith), the leaders of those institutions have ALWAYS passed very hard judgement on all the things I mentioned in my previous post, most especially homosexuality. HELL, they even pass hard judgement on people who get divorced warning us that it's a sin and will keep us from everlasting life!

You may see it as standard dogma, but I don't, especially not when it comes to such hot bottom topics like homosexuality. With regards to Christianity, too many religious leaders interpret the bible literally and therefore preach it literally which is very dangerous in my opinion. The bible isn't as black and white as many leaders make it out to be and has plenty of room for interpretation. It's not the religions we should be afraid of but the leaders who pick and choose what they want to preach, often times with their own lofty and questionable agendas already in place.

Like I said, I don't expect the Catholic church to turn over and play dead on the issue of homosexuality, however, I am very hopeful that this statement in addition to everything else Pope Francis has been doing differently (and even better in many cases) since becoming Pope IS a step in the right direction.



Buz
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 7:22:19 PM

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I hope he's seriously concerned about keeping his priests out of little boys pants. That seems to have been a major problem with the 'pointy hat pontiff corporation.'

elitfromnorth
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 7:07:44 AM

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Let's change the quote a bit.

Quote:
If someone is a serial killer and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?


See what I did there? It's not about "Gay people are alright" it's all about seeking abolition for your sins, and that God will accept every sinner as long as they regret their sins. Pope Francis lashed out rather hard against gay marriages when he was a cardinal and I doubt he's changed his stance on it in the short time he's been Pope. Does anyone really believe that if it had been known he was ok with gays that he'd been elected? I'm betting the Catholic church is like any parliment around the world; you may have your dirty secrets hidden from the public, but if you secretly support gays the other members will know about it. Not to mention since most of the high ranking catholics are still anti-gay then he'd run a huge risk of compromising the Catholic church with a statement like that. I don't believe the pope accepting gays until he sits in his chair and proclaiming that what he says to be the truth from God and then says gays are ok. Until then I'm afraid we're stuck with a gay hating church.

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Guest
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 8:05:14 AM

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I personally am a non practicing Catholic, I think although what he said or didn't say is wonderful. No one should be judged on sexual pref. , race , religion, etc..
But I do have a problem with it. Knowing all the rules of he Church, even if I disagree, they are their rules. It would be like Muslims being able to consume pork suddenly, or Mormans gambling. If you choose to not follow the rules of a certain religion...switch or don't practice. Just be a good person and you should be ok.
adagio_sabadicus
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 8:18:17 AM

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I think that was the correct thing to say, given his position in theology

[
Nikki703
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:44:20 AM

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I am Catholic but I definitely do not agree with everything the church stands for. But it was nice to hear him say what he said. I do hope he doesn't eventually change what he said saying he was misquoted or there was something lost in translation or some other BS. But it is a nice start.

Maybe the Catholic Church will eventually get into the 21st century and realize that a person's sexual orientation, whether you agree with it or not, is not a sin.

But we have to walk before we can run. Maybe start with it is OK to be gay except on Fridays and during Lent!!!
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:54:28 AM

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But we have to walk before we can run. Maybe start with it is OK to be gay except on Fridays and during Lent!!!

Very funny!
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 9:51:40 PM

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I'd like to know the Pope's position about how we see Jesus' face in all kinds of different places...



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nastydaddywatched
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:26:29 AM

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i really think ,he is the best man for the jog .
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:34:28 AM

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nastydaddywatched wrote:
i really think ,he is the best man for the jog .


I don't know, man. He seems a little bit feeble for jogging.
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:38:34 AM

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LadyX wrote:


I don't know, man. He seems a little bit feeble for jogging.


perhaps a brisk walk across the water, though?

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LYFBUZ
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 12:48:24 PM

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Awesome news: Pope reads Bible

dpw
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 7:54:57 PM

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Nikki703 wrote:
I am Catholic but I definitely do not agree with everything the church stands for. But it was nice to hear him say what he said. I do hope he doesn't eventually change what he said saying he was misquoted or there was something lost in translation or some other BS. But it is a nice start.

Maybe the Catholic Church will eventually get into the 21st century and realize that a person's sexual orientation, whether you agree with it or not, is not a sin.

But we have to walk before we can run. Maybe start with it is OK to be gay except on Fridays and during Lent!!!

I don't understand how you can be a Catholic and not agree with all the rules. As far as I knew, you had to have unquestioning belief in all the teachings of the Church.
The Pope has said nothing new at all, it's the same thing that Jesus said "Judge not and thou shalt not be judged". Well that has worked for the 2,000 years hasn't it!
All this about the sinner and the sin, it isn't a sin to be a homosexual it becomes a sin when you act on it, that sin has designed to create a sinner. The claptrap about the absolution of sins, absolution depends on repentance and nothing else. Well I'm afraid I'm off to the fiery furnace because I, for one, am NOT sorry.
If there is a "GOD" they made me who I am and if there was some glich in the process so the end result wasn't up to scratch that's not my problem.
This Pope, the next Pope and the following hundred Popes won't change the teachings, none will have the guts and the backing to admit that 2,000 years of teachings and so many previous Popes were wrong.
Tranquil
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:23:44 AM

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Non practicing Catholic here.

but I would like to point out that there are many types of practices in the church. Pope Frances comes from the Jesuit. I don't believe any words he speaks are no carefully choosen. His cardinals have been chancing their tails since the minute he stepped into the office. they have tried a couple of times to undo what he has said then found themselves at a loss because he actually is a man who walks his talk.

you can't change hundreds of years in one but you can start.

Jesuit is not just about servicing the masses, it is very strong in bring people into the catholic faith (One of its core principals) . this man has washed feet of the poor yes but he was at the same time indoctrinating them into the faith too.

I personally think we should "watch this space" . I believe he will be the one pope in the last 100 years to be assassinated from within but hey i am not fortune teller.

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